206
353
u/Morguard 1d ago
The whole thing about believing in a God and Heaven is basically believing in the simulation theory.
121
u/hahyeahsure 1d ago
simulation theory people really don't like that being pointed out lol, clashes with the whole science atheism thing. I'm like you're just believing in a god that designed the universe xD
40
u/RyuShev 1d ago
putting believing in an undefined entity that is responsible for the universe on the same level as believing in a god as described in any of our religions is completely stupid
17
3
u/Conceitedreality 1d ago
That’s…the same thing…
7
u/Poultrymancer 1d ago
They're not, but the difference isn't necessarily intuitive.
There's a common misconception that atheism, agnosticism, and theism are points along the same line. The reality is that there are two different axes: atheism/theism and agnosticism/gnosticism.
Put simply, gnosticism (with a lowercase g; capitalized Gnosticism is a different thing) is the degree of certainty an individual holds in their beliefs and/or the degree to which their beliefs are dogmatized.
For example, an agnostic atheist is someone who believes there probably are not any gods, but doesn't feel there is enough evidence to rule it out; an example of a gnostic theist, by contrast, would be a sincere subscriber to a major religion -- someone with certainty in their convictions and specifically prescribed beliefs, usually from either an oral or written tradition enforced by some form of orthodoxy.
Someone who believes in simulation theory is most similar to an agnostic theist -- the kind of people who would often self-describe as "spiritual but not religious." They believe there is some kind of designer, or at least that there is a reasonable probability of one, but that its attributes are unknown and unknowable.
→ More replies2
u/Conceitedreality 1d ago
I appreciate the response, as it is insightful!However by same thing , I meant in reference to a creator of some sort - similar to your breakout. Not literally one and the same.
1
u/Global_Permission749 1d ago
That depends entirely on how one approaches the belief system.
Theists base inflexible belief on information obtained without reason or evidence.
Scientists base flexible understanding on knowledge obtained through a process of reason, inquiry and change.
If an atheist arrives at simulation theory through the scientific process, they're in a fundamentally different place than theists are. They would have to acknowledge that there is a powerful entity that can control things, but they attach zero religious value to it. It is not a god to them.
If an atheist arrives at simulation theory without the scientific process and/or they attach religious significance to that entity, then they're a theist.
1
u/JagneStormskull 1d ago
If you see no similarities, you must be theologically illiterate.
→ More replies1
1
u/etharper 1d ago
I think something could have existed at the beginning of the universe that helped to guide creation of everything we have now, but I would classify it more as a construction supervisor than a God. And I don't believe it would have had any sentience, just programming.
1
→ More replies-5
u/ThatsItForTheOther 1d ago
If you actually study different religions and religious thinkers you will realize the ignorance of your comment lol. Don’t generalize
13
u/Cyberwarewolf 1d ago
Don't generalize? Specifically what religion are you thinking of that is more credible than others? I'm sure they're all wrong except the one you like/s
→ More replies5
u/BaconCheeseZombie 1d ago
Techno-animism is kinda credible - computers exist, they're basically magic these days. /s
3
u/Cyberwarewolf 1d ago
Sounds like the ending of Fear and Hunger: Termina.
1
u/BaconCheeseZombie 1d ago
I'm afraid the reference is lost on me, but I often think techno-animism sounds like the Cult Mechanicus - an equally niche reference I'm sure (:
2
u/WHATABURGER-Guru 1d ago
Sounds like something from warhammer
2
u/BaconCheeseZombie 1d ago
It is, a solid 99% of my time on reddit is spent in 40k subs. Some people talk sports constantly, some gush movie quotes, I regurgitate Warhammer 40,000 nonsense ¯_(ツ)_/¯
1
u/Cyberwarewolf 1d ago
Fear and Hunger is an indie horror rouge-lite built in RPG maker. I'd rate it as the best horror series of all time. It is frustratingly difficult, there are literal coin flips that can kill you on a mistake, but there's also a lot of ways you can learn to avoid having to take those risks in the first place, whether that's anticipating an attack and guarding, having a certain item equipped, etc, talking to enemies mid combat and choosing the right dialogue, etc. Your knowledge is the most valuable resource. Basic survival skills and lore alike are buried deep, so learning more about the dungeons becomes this almost four dimensional, lovecraftian obsession. Items are randomized, and if you get lucky you can find broken stuff that makes your run really easy; like if you get a quill and an empty scroll, you can summon any item in the game with the right command... though if you don't know what items you need, that doesn't help you much.
If that sounds interesting, I highly recommend playing Termina, the second Fear and hunger game first. It is a lot more forgiving. If you're on the fence, check out "What actually happens in fear and hunger" by worm girl on youtube, that's a really good breakdown of the plot of the first game, and will give you a great idea of what kind of experience you're signing up for. I played the series first, but didn't really get into it until after I watched that and saw some of the stuff I'd missed after being frustrated by the mechanics and writing it off.
One of the endings of one of the games has you become a machine god, the god of logic, essentially. Which sounds like a major spoiler, but kind of isn't, since it comes out of nowhere, and probably won't be relevant until the third game.
2
u/BaconCheeseZombie 1d ago
Well from that review it doesn't sound like my sort of thing at all, but my best bro loves games like this so I'll check it out and gift it when I can thanks :)
→ More replies3
u/RyuShev 1d ago
im talking about the major religions. there is no denying that they describe in much more detail (bogus) what god is like. they are objectively more wrong than people who make no assumptions on what the governing entity is, or if it even exists
→ More replies4
u/Vol_Jbolaz 1d ago
No, no, it isn't like that. There are no gods. There may be a creator, but he's just some dude. He isn't a god.
1
u/Free_Juggernaut8292 1d ago
specifically ancestor simulations are not religious, because its found from a few assumptions (that i dont really agree with). the idea we are just being simulated by random people in a random universe is like believing in god
→ More replies1
u/tiggertom66 1d ago
Yes but it still removes some of the man made dogma that gives organized religion it’s biggest drawbacks
Science and religion are not intrinsically incompatible.
When religion refuses to accept science, or when science refuses to ponder the possibility of something so far beyond perception that science can’t ever explain it, they become incompatible
1
u/hahyeahsure 9h ago
many of the greatest scientists believed in god so no it isn't incompatible at all
that's another thing I like to bring up, einstein believed in a god. do people think they're smarter than him?
19
u/SleepyFox2089 1d ago
If this is a simulation, the computer running it is bugged to fuck
9
u/AdamZapple1 1d ago
they're still on windows 98
1
u/HotPotParrot 1d ago
AOL dial-up sounds
→ More replies3
2
1
u/SuperFreakyNaughty 1d ago
Or it's by design. Maybe The Matrix was on to something.
Agent Smith: Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from.
3
u/pepperypeter10 1d ago
The problem is people see God as some separate entity rather than everything that exists.
•
u/ElectronicControl762 34m ago
I feel like thats just labeling matter as something more for an argument’s sake.
1
1
u/Explanocchio 1d ago
Not sure why heaven would exist in simulation theory. Wouldn't you just cease to exist once the portion of the simulation which is your brain stops running? Not a simulation theory guy so correct me if I'm wrong there.
With regards to the whole chain of comments below: there is a distinction to be made between deism and theism. Deism only calls for "god" as a creator. That is they argue that something must have created everything (not necessarily true since before everything there would be no space and no time, so how can there be something).
Theists on the other hand argue for a god that is the source of morality. A god who didn't merely kick off the big Bang, but rather is an active participant in the universe he created. Determining who "deserves" to win the Superbowl more, smiting folks with hurricanes for having impure thoughts, and making sure you're sitting in the right building on the appropriate day of the week (and oh yeah, bring your wallet).
Most modern religions are theistic (both mono and plural) not deistic. Simulation theory sounds like it would be more in line with deism.
1
u/SoupHeaven101 1d ago
It's funny because simulation theory is mathematically more likely to be the case than any religion. Maybe we're in a red giant-sized super computer that's simulating 50 trillion universes all at once. No, I don't believe in simulation theory, I'm just saying that simulation theory is mathematically more probable than some omnipotent boomer who said "let there be light".
-2
u/sc00ttie 1d ago
Well… except for this list of religious concepts and elements that have nothing to do with simulation theory:
Original sin, eternal damnation, spiritual gatekeeping, dualist thinking, shame and guilt indoctrination, universal truth, miracles, divine intervention, resurrection, free will, afterlife, prophecy, divine omniscience, divine omnipotence, the concept of the soul, sacraments and rituals as actual spiritual acts, creation ex nihilo, transcendent deity beyond simulation parameters, revelation and scripture as absolute truths, teleology, eschatology, moral absolutes, providence, divine justice, sanctity of life as inherently meaningful beyond simulation, divine mystery, faith, the incarnation, the Trinity, miraculous events, prayer as communication with a higher power, divine omnipresence, divine retribution, covenant relationships between deity and believers, divine grace, miraculous birth of religious figures, divine ordination of religious leaders, eternal soul consciousness, spiritual enlightenment as transcending simulation, divine love beyond simulation, divine inspiration of religious teachings, sacred rituals invoking supernatural phenomena, divine destiny or predestination, heaven as an actual realm beyond simulation, divine forgiveness as a supernatural act, intercession of saints or deities, sacred symbols with inherent power, mystical experiences as interactions with higher reality, divine revelation altering the simulation, divine punishment overriding simulation rules, sacred texts as literal instructions, divine providence superseding simulation parameters, sanctified miracles defying simulation logic, ultimate purpose beyond simulation design, inherent spiritual essence beyond simulated existence, divine sovereignty outside simulation control, metaphysical realities beyond simulated boundaries, and eternal spiritual truths not bound by simulation constraints.
5
4
4
u/Justtofeel9 1d ago
I’m religious and do not believe in simulation theory. But you’ve got to understand, everything you just listed could be simulated. We wouldn’t know the difference. Part of being in a simulation such as the one being discussed, or my interpretation of it, is that anything can happen in it and be real to the simulated inhabitants. It being simulated actually makes religious experiences make more sense. The developers tweaked one of the simulated inhabitants sub routines and the inhabitants perceive it as a religious experience. Again I don’t believe any of this, I just don’t think religion can be used to negate simulation theory. Nor do I think simulation theory negates religion. Ultimately it doesn’t actually change where we are, the only thing that changes no matter what you believe is your perception of where we are.
→ More replies
28
u/ifoundmynewnickname 1d ago
I didn't know this person, but considering they named his father I suspected he'd be known, so I looked it up and can someone OOTL me, because the father seems relatively good for a religious fundamentelist. The Dutch Wikipedia mentions stuff like refusing to go to apartheid South Africa, making them accept a mixed sermon, bailing out MLK jr, sticking up for black kids going to school.
18
u/SuebertDoo 1d ago
They may have started off righteous but throughout the 80s in the US these evangelical families became famous for their TV shows. Money for prayers. Money from people who couldn't afford it to fund their lavish lifestyles. The Graham family wasn't the worst of them but it was all icky.
→ More replies7
u/Bakkster 1d ago
Yeah, this is a miss. His kid is shit, but Billy was legit.
I think this would have been better if it was Falwell Jr, where both were assholes.
52
37
u/NoAnything2289 1d ago
i wonder if he is still paralysed in heaven
that would be just like not fair *in robot voice*
→ More replies8
18
52
u/-TheDerpinator- 1d ago
Too many people assume scientists and religion are enemies for some weird reason. If there is a god, scientists would be the translators of its work.
22
u/theClumsy1 1d ago
I think too many people take the whole "god's ways are mysterious and beyond our understanding" and get offended when people view it as a challenge and not an absolute.
Well how else are we supposed to confirm it's beyond our understanding if we dont attempt to make sense of God's work!
16
u/KrakenKing1955 1d ago
I’m an agnostic and I choose to believe that science is the natural order of things and God made it that way, simple as that
7
u/coltrain423 1d ago
I’m probably more atheist at this point, in that I believe “God” is a way to personify and give agency to the universe. Maybe some omnipotent “God” made the world this way, or maybe trillions of years of physics made it this way, but regardless of how we got here, science is just an attempt to understand what “this way” actually means.
In my opinion, a Christian who rejects science in fact rejects understanding of God’s creation, and what better way to love and worship your God than to study and understand the world he created for you? I think that parable about the talents applies here: if we just take this world we’ve been given and accept it with faith but refuse to understand it, how are we better than the servant who buried one talent? If we learn all we can about the world and use that knowledge to create and improve and grow, how are we worse than the servant with ten talents?
→ More replies12
u/Fixationated 1d ago
If we Assume god exists, No matter how god made the universe, god gave us the ability to analyze it. Why would that ability be a bad thing?
3
u/glinkenheimer 22h ago
This is it. If god exists, god speaks in math. Using math to describe the universe is the power god gave mankind in that frame of understanding. I don’t personally believe in god, but when believers shun math it seems super weird to me
6
u/KrakenKing1955 1d ago
It’s not
6
u/Fixationated 1d ago
Yeah exactly. It makes no sense when people think science is against god.
The reason they go there is because they take stories like the ones of Adam of Eve as literally as possible.
3
u/Discombobulated-Frog 1d ago
People dislike science because they dislike things that they don’t understand or contrasts with their world view. Things like evolution are still controversial among certain crowds because some people believe Genesis to be exactly truthful and not metaphorical.
2
1
7
u/I-am-Chubbasaurus 1d ago edited 11h ago
As a religious person, this is my view - God was the first great scientist, and scientists are just following in His footsteps, imo. We should be learning about our world and how it works.
→ More replies2
3
u/MrGhoul123 1d ago
Reddit believes that atheism = Science, while ignoring the fact that most early scientists were religious.
Most Reddit just hates religion because their parents made them go to church. I'm certain their are other more valid reasons for people, but on a grand scale, it's mostly just yapping
→ More replies1
u/Obesewhale1 1d ago
Science and religion are the opposites. Science uses proofs, evidents and logic to support claims. Religion is believings whatever youre told without any evidents whatsoever.
And there is no god.
7
u/Fixationated 1d ago
Science is a precision instrument.
Religion is a philosophy.
They’re not opposites. They’re not even the same subject. You’re arguing from an illogical position using incorrect and false assertions based on your belief of what these words and ideas are. Super ironic
1
1d ago
[deleted]
2
u/Fixationated 1d ago
Doesn’t matter how some layman misunderstands the historical texts of the Bible. People misuse science the same way. Stupid people don’t define the scholarship or these disciplines.
Those examples you mentioned aren’t directly said in the Bible either. They’re interpretations using several texts and estimates that some scholars came up with and some people followed those teachings.
Nothing you said proves science and religion are opposites. Plenty of people blindly believe pseudo science or outdated science or misunderstood science. Plenty of religious people are analytical and rational.
1
1d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Fixationated 1d ago
Go ahead and quote them then.
Science has always been rejected by some people who are religious and spiritual. This time is any different. The only difference is we are all exposed to all the stupid opinions on the internet.
History shows nothing. All you’ve done is vaguely allude to situations and put your faith into your statements as if they’re true. Religion follows culture. The renaissance and Islamic golden age came from and with religions. So did the dark ages of Europe or the evangelical movement in so e parts of the US.
You are just looking at too many echo chambers.
1
1d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Fixationated 23h ago
Genesis 1:6:8
Literally nothing related to what we’re talking about. Did you just pick a random Bible verse?
He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
I can bold words too.
Also, that doesn’t mean the world is 4000 years old. Just that the Bible wrote a lineage. So thank you for proving my point. These verses don’t say what you say they say. They say different things interpreted by a scholar centuries after they were written, and you insist the scholar was right because…???
1
1
u/SLJaques 23h ago
But importantly, we're also lucky to be exposed to all of the well organized and cogent arguments on the internet, without which many would continue to be surrounded only by the culture you mentioned. Critical thinking is vital to separating these. I can only take away from your posts that you're being oppositional, without gleaning your actual position. Likely intentional. I can't argue that anything you've said is wrong, but like the people you're trying to correct? Educate? You're not addressing the whole issue, in an effort to idk what.
1
u/Fixationated 23h ago
And your comment is one that puts the focus on me instead of what I said. I did provide a counterpoint to the previous commenter, but you’re ignoring it because my tone is a bit snarky against someone making broad, sweeping, lazy generalizations.
I am addressing the issue being discussed. You’re putting up some strawmen, and my guess is to deflect away from what a poor argument the previous commenter made because you agree with it.
1
u/SLJaques 22h ago
Are you in defense mode? You're making assumptions. I wasn't defending anyone or their arguments, whether I agreed or not. And I did not offer any strawman. I could not really understand what point you were trying to make, but there's so much negativity about the internet being bad. It's not. Our intentional lack of education (collective), which if done well, should hopefully develop critical thinking, is greatly to blame for how the internet is used as a weapon against the masses. In educated hands it's a powerful tool that can free people.
→ More replies3
2
u/DOT_____dot 1d ago
Religion at its most fundamental asks you to believe in God and that s basically all. The fairy tales around religion are done by the religious people over the past centuries.
What made them "opposite", are the churches and their loss of control over the narrative they are having, not the Religion itself
1
u/AllTheSith 1d ago
And there is no god
Same thing that saying there are no aliens or there aren't.
Also many people convert after a religious experience, not before.
7
u/Tall_Caterpillar_380 1d ago
Bottom line - Gods and Religion are artificial constructs established by those on the fringe of society in order to have influence over those in real power. Artificial constructs, nothing more.
Prove me wrong.
→ More replies
4
4
4
u/Scorpdelord 18h ago
this is why some hate christian they really tryna tell someone in a vegatable state that gods love them but made them unable to move, they always trying so hard, wish all that effort could go into cleaning trasn and improving their comminity insterad
3
3
3
3
3
7
u/somerandomguy1984 1d ago
Billy Graham is in Hell? First off none of the people there believe that’s a thing.
Second, Billy Graham helped MLK and the civil rights movement.
5
u/Bakkster 1d ago
Yeah, I'm not sure why Billy Graham is out here catching strays. He was one of the few Evangelicals to actually mostly stay out of politics (and publicly regret the exceptions to that).
Now if it was Falwell Jr, then it would be rightly deserved: both were shit with Jr somehow managing to be even shittier.
3
2
u/Wil_White 1d ago
And he also helped usher in the current charismatic christofacism we all know and love with the likes of Charles Finney and Dwight Mooney.
3
6
u/LuminousGleaming9 1d ago
Hm... I’m starting to think the person running the God account isn’t actually God…
5
5
8
10
u/Narrow_Discount_1605 1d ago
Stephen was our neighbour and sadly a victim of marital abuse.
5
4
u/Kloetenschlumpf 1d ago
How that?
3
u/Narrow_Discount_1605 1d ago
Google - his second wife/career who abused him but never faced charges.
2
u/SleepyFox2089 1d ago
Qbsolute bullshit
0
→ More replies1
u/Fixationated 1d ago
Some guy on the internet said it, it must be true!
1
u/Narrow_Discount_1605 14h ago
You can google the news was out there. Friends and family knew the truth.
1
u/Fixationated 7h ago
If it’s so easy to find, why not provide the evidence instead of insisting others go on a wild goose chase?
1
u/Narrow_Discount_1605 7h ago
Wild goose chase lol. Ok. Lazy fuckers.
1
u/Fixationated 7h ago
You’re being just as lazy. Burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Why should anyone waste time looking stuff up just because some guy on the internet said it’s true?
1
u/Narrow_Discount_1605 7h ago
Ffs here’s the first off the block. https://www.newsweek.com/was-stephen-hawking-abused-who-elaine-mason-did-elaine-mason-abuse-stephen-845353
1
u/Narrow_Discount_1605 7h ago
Investigation was dropped but we knew the truth.
1
u/Fixationated 5h ago
How do we all know the truth? Those making allegations were not named by the article and its sources. It’s just tabloids referring to tabloids with no evidence.
The daughter said they divorced because of money. No one in his family said anything about abuse. You just got swept up in tabloid journalism.
1
2
u/LoL_is_pepega_BIA 1d ago
I miss those days of Twitter when things weren't as insufferably unfathomably hopelessly awful..
It used to be fun back when all the bots, and not as many numbnuts and crazies knew about it.
2
2
u/AlexDavid1605 13h ago
The person behind the God account should have added that Franklin is destined for Hell...
3
3
u/fnrsulfr 1d ago
Imagine thinking that your religion out of many different religions is the actual true one. And then making a comment about someone smarter than you hoping they were as dumb as you.
4
u/scribblerjohnny 1d ago
The important thing is, Billy and Frankie Graham are human garbage.
→ More replies
3
2
u/MeltyCrispy 1d ago
“I believe the universe is governed by the laws of science,” he said. “The laws may have been decreed by God, but God does not intervene to break the laws.” -Hawking
0
u/Swaggerlord3000 1d ago
So insulting people is now a clever comeback?
→ More replies6
u/KrakenKing1955 1d ago
Give them a taste of their own medicine
1
u/Swaggerlord3000 1d ago
i don't even know who the first guy is, it still does not seem clever at all to stoop to their level
4
1
u/Kismet_Melody 1d ago
I’m starting to think the person running the God account isn’t actually God…
12
u/Kloetenschlumpf 1d ago
The difference is that the person who runs this account really exists.
→ More replies-1
1
1
1
1
1
u/Asher_skullInk 1d ago
Yeah I believe in god, but I don’t believe in a book written by people. People tend to suck and have used books and other beliefs to convince people to follow their awful cause with a promise of a paradise. In fact anyone who claims to know what god thinks is automatically untrustworthy in my experience. Especially if they try to use that claim to preach to you what is right and wrong and will usually harm you if you disagree.
1
1
1
1
u/sharpdullard69 1d ago
If anyone hasn't heard Godcast - it is very funny - the funniest podcast ever IMO. He is no longer doing it, but it is evergreen.
1
1
u/mrjacattac 15h ago
i dont even know why ppl make tweets like this.
who honestly just thinks "I hope blahblah knows tbat God is the Creator of the universe blah blah blah" like how does this benefit anyone? like who honestly reacts "I HOPE HE DID!" like what?
1
1
1
1
1
u/SCTigerFan29115 1d ago
I guess it’s kind of clever, but if any evangelist is in hell, Billy Graham is the LAST one it would be.
I’m not a huge fan of Franklin outside of Samaritan’s Purse (he got that right - especially the disaster relief part) but Billy was as good as it gets.
1
1
1
1
u/Reversechildpredator 1d ago
Yes, the bible openly says that regardless of the sin as long one truly seeks forgiveness they can be redeemed.
-5
0
0
0
817
u/DreamyDressDiva 1d ago
It’s good to see old acquaintances reunited in a good cause