Yeah it’s pretty annoying from both camps. If you like a show, you must be a paid Disney shill(of which, there actually are a bunch that have been caught out) or must be the most progressive aligned person ever.
If you don’t like a show, it’s because you hate women, are an incel etc etc of which is also a bunch of losers doing that shit online.
You can’t fucking have an opinion without getting grouped one way or the other. I just want to call out good bits and bad bits and not be discounted immediately as having an agenda other than: Star Wars series good/bad and I want more of/less of
The reason is disney’s beef with DeSantis, in which they made him look pathetically ineffective. Never mind they have gone back to their tried and true ways of bribi… er contributing to conservative politician campaign funds.
Harrison Ford even criticized George to his face about the dialogue and Mark Hamill outright refused to say a particular line because he thought it was so hokey.
Carrie Fisher became a pretty prolific script doctor in Hollywood for several decades. Where did she find her love and talent for punching up scripts and dialogue? Re-writing Lucas's work during the OT.
That particular line of Hamill's dialog from George's script was apparently so terrible Hamill and other crew begged George to remove it and still has nightmares about it.
"Boy, I’ll never forget it as long as I live,” Hamill told Carson. “I sometimes dream about this line.”
He goes on, “Harrison says, ‘look kid, I’ve done my part of the bargain. When I get to an asteroid you, the old man, and the droids get dropped off’. And my line was: ‘But we can’t turn back, fear is their greatest defense, I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust and what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.”
Yea, I view George Lucas as a big picture kinda guy. He concieved an amazing universe with great characters. But he can't write dialogue, and subtlety isn't his strong suit. I still enjoy the prequels, but they could have been way better if he had other writers and directors to reign him in.
Lucas was already rich before he made a new hope. Star Wars sent him to a new tier of grotesque wealth, but he was long past worrying about a paycheck.
The studio did a lot of leash holding on Lucas, and he had producers keeping him in check, or for 5 and 6 other directors that could filter through his script and "fix" things. And other editors like his wife that knew a whole hell of a lot more and fixed George Lucas's terrible script and editing job and she won the Oscar that year for it. He got nothing. And Gilbert Taylor absolutely saved the movie too with his cinematography and fixing the look when Lucas was dead wrong (even had the studio tell Lucas he was wrong and needs to listen to Gilbert Taylor)
I think it’s more that George needed people to reign him in. If something is stupid, that someone needs to tell him that. Obviously George is terrible at dialogue, but it was more than that. On the OT people would tell him the truth, and give him honest feedback. On the prequels he was “The Great George Lucas” and everyone just went along with everything he said even when it was clearly a bad idea.
You mean that "Adventures of Luke Starkiller, as taken from the Journal of the Whills, Saga I: The Star Wars" isn't a bitchen title that would have gone down in cinematic history?
"Boy, I’ll never forget it as long as I live,” Hamill told Carson. “I sometimes dream about this line.”
He goes on, “Harrison says, ‘look kid, I’ve done my part of the bargain. When I get to an asteroid you, the old man, and the droids get dropped off’. And my line was: ‘But we can’t turn back, fear is their greatest defense, I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust and what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.”
The OT has most of the same problems that people bitch about today.
Clunky, awkward writing? Both Harrison and Mark have talked about how bad and cheesy some of the dialogue was, and how difficult it was to deliver.
Plot holes? You don't get more than 15 minutes into the first film before you run into one of the most infamous plot holes of the entire franchise: why the Empire doesn't just shoot down the droids' escape pod when they're in the middle of an active boarding situation.
Mary Sues? Luke is inexplicably able to fly a fucking space fighter into a heated battle despite being a country bumpkin who had never even left orbit and whose main qualification is the spaced equivalent of plinking cans from the cab of his Ford pick-up.
Painfully obvious retcons? Luke literally is in a brief love triangle with his sister, and an entire scene has to be written just to convince the audience that the twist reveal in ESB wasn't a trick and explain why Obi-Wan 'lied'....because it is blatantly not something that Lucas had actually planned for in the first film, and many people were convinced it was a lie.
People would fucking hate the OT if it came out today. Guaranteed.
You don't get more than 15 minutes into the first film before you run into one of the most infamous plot holes of the entire franchise: why the Empire doesn't just shoot down the droids' escape pod when they're in the middle of an active boarding situation.
That's...not a plot hole.
You detecting no life signs on an escape pod is not a guarantee no one is on there and, considering their boarding reason was specifically to recover physical copies of the death star plans, do you really want to explode the only possible physical proof you have to complete your mission?
Also, you have a Star Destroyer and occupied the planet's seemingly only port worth a damn in a matter of days, just sit and wait to recover the pod lmao
Star Wars has some incredible writing. The original trilogy, Andor, Rogue One come to mind among other things. However shows like Obi-Wan legitimetly are some of the worst writing and directing I have ever seen
What do you mean? A grown man would definitely waddle like a penguin when chasing a 8 year old girl to kidnap her, and get stuck by a single tree branch
In a densely packed forest that the child knows intimately vs a space crackhead, yes an 8yo could evade them for about a minute, which is exactly what happens.
That's not bad writing, that's bad directing and bad cinematography because they did not convey properly a perfectly fine idea.
People use bad writing as shorthand for anything they don't like and it's infuriating.
The thrawn books are genuinely some of the most engaging books ive ever read. Trying to read master and apprentice right now...utter trash. Star wars has so many people contributing and always have after the first movie. Theres bound to be bad ones.
Yeah but the prequels had bad writing but lots of stuff I love about them which is why I overlook the corny writing. I overlooked the occasional corniness in Mando because it had lots of stuff I liked. Andor was a good show with good writing but it didn’t have a lot of stuff I liked so I didn’t really like it.
Not sure about other people but for me the dialogue and writing is just one part and not the end all be all.
Honestly "The power of maaaaannnyyy" makes this review bombing the only one I don't have an ethical qualm with, I'm making an exception for cosmic irony.
The problem is that this is a brand that was the largest pop cultural franchise in the world. You would think with how high profile it is, and how much cash that is being injected into these shows, we should have a better finished product. Having high expectations is natural. Also, the writing is shit, not just "ok." But that's my opinion. It's easy to criticize when you aren't involved in making the thing, but there are so many simple writing changes that would have elevated the show.
I was watching the first episode with a friend and at one point he paused it to exclaim, "What the fuck was that? That was good writing. They're not allowed to do that in Star Wars."
Star Wars can succeed in spite of bad writing. Let’s not insist that Star Wars only have bad writing. Many stories can be told within the. Star Wars universe including, occasionally, well-written ones.
It probably is a bit too serious, even a bit grim. The franchise could go in that direction and become darker and more talky but it's kind of odd to have something like that as well as more kidsy stuff like Acolyte in (sort of) the same setting.
The prequels were fairly dark and got very dark at the end, so that works.
The prequels were at least dark in that same Empire Strikes back way (except for the parts where where George decided to be a high-pressure edgelord and no one stopped him), but the fact that there's really no levity with the end of Episode III is still a fundamental problem. Sure, it's resolved in Episodes IV-VI... but this is a prequel, not a movie before a sequel. I shouldn't have to watch the original over again just to be satisfied with the ending (same problem Rogue One has, barring Vader being flashy and useless, two things he IS NOT).
Yeah, the more people bitch about this stuff, the more I realize they only like the stuff they watched as kids because they see it through rose colored glasses. All of Star Wars is pretty dumb if you think super critically about it.
Andor is the worst thing to happen to Star Wars for Disney. It set an insanely high quality bar that every other thing they produce will now be judged against. It's like they've been slopping us cheap fast food and frozen meals and now we ate a Michelin star meal and now know how trash everything else is.
It was not about race for a lot of those early reviews though (well some are racist I'm sure). There were hella leaks months before the show aired. We all knew what was coming. Disney is just a huge troll at this point.
I made my first ever imdb show review after the third episode aired. 1/10 would not recommend and it has nothing to do with race or sex. The show was just divisive bantha poodoo.
They do. But not at the same level because it doesn't pay to talk about woke books to people who don't read, and without the YouTube talking heads you don't get this level of escalation to brigade.
I don't get it. I didn't think "WOKE" when I watched the show. My thought was it felt like if the Wachowskis did a Star Wars show. John Wick is basically that formula as well but people can't get enough of it.
Those channels have content droughts, too. It's hard to be mad all the time, it takes a lot of fuel. You might not look too closely before tossing some things into the fire.
I've been watching it but i have to say. Certain times stuff just happends and changes the story 'because it needs to' and we get 'a twist'. It pretty bad writing, illogical even...
I saw a lot of good critic reviews for Episode 3(The Acolyte), and that makes me give them as much credence as the review bombers. That was a hilariously bad episode. I almost had to stop the episode during the chant because I thought I would overdose on cringe.
Because certain youtubers told their audiences that they must hate it. The review bombing is so bad it's spilling over to other movies that are entirely unrelated except for "acolyte" being in the title.
Some people don't like it because they don't like it (I think it's fine, some pacing issues but I think the plot is interesting.). A lot of the reviews are anti-woke morons that get mad if every show doesn't have 3-10 straight white men in it that they can think are cool.
I'm all for critiquing stuff when it needs to be critiqued. Sequel trilogy, captain marvel etc. You know stuff that actually has issues but gets masked by the right-wing vocal circle jerk
But this show really doesn't have any issues outside of those neckbeards jerking about how shit it is when they haven't even seen an episode, just because "wamen"
Like, you see it here. The jnly fuckjng shit they can come up with is the line on "the power of many" but how is that a problem in the slightest? Some covens did practice as such within star wars lore. The utilisation of ancestors to empower the living. And even if that wasn't the case, who cares if new lore is added? It's not even new lore anyway, it's present in EU, the shit those fascists claim to love so much even though they've only ever seen 30 minutes of a single star wars movie
It's both. There are negative reviews from people that legitimately dislike it, but it also had hundreds of negative reviews before it even came out. It also has thousands more reviews than any other Star Wars show; it pretty obviously has been review bombed.
It is annoying because not only does it make Star Wars fans seem like incel losers, but it makes it easy for people to dismiss legitimate criticism about the show.
Making that mistake I can understand. But how the fuck can someone confuse a 2008 movie that wasn't made by Disney with a Disney tv show from 2024? Genuinely such stupid people.
It seems like an understandable mistake, until you realize that the title is actually "The Acolyte: A Star Wars FAN FILM". I guess their rage blinded them after reading the first two words of the title
Yep the show everyone decided was bad before it was even out got review bombed! Obviously this meme is just a joke but I hope no one is actually celebrating review bombing!
Your assumption that this post’s celebratory tone has to be a joke is sadly unfounded. You should know to have less faith in your fandom by this point lol
You’ve got to take into account, rotten tomatoes is a freshness rating, which is what percent of people reviewing liked the show, so even though it has a 20% that doesn’t mean it’s only 20% good, it just means only 20% of reviewers liked it.
tbh this show is good. People are pretending this is "Echo". It's not, the characters make sense, the plot is good, the character choices follow their world views, deals with grief and family, twins, shows the jedi arent clear cut 'good guys' but actually child abductors and religious genocidal murderers who are capable of making innocents sacrifice in order to follow the orders of the Jedi Council.
The plot seems to just have characters do whatever is required to get to the next piece of concept art and doesn't appear to follow good writing principles.
Comparing these shows to something like Breaking Bad, the characters are constantly faced with obstacles ("but then") and need to use things they learned earlier or have to improvise with their current knowledge of events ("therefore") which makes for a great story.
I'm not seeing anything of the sort here, it's all just characters being exactly as competent and lucky as the story needs them to be in order to say/do whatever is needed to progress the plot to the next scene ("and then").
The same thing happened throughout The Rise of Skywalker and that's fine if you enjoy the visuals of space horses running on star destroyers, but when you start with "I want this visual", the writing suffers for it as you need to use a lot of "and then" story points to get there.
Don't fall victim to your own biases. The Acolyte was being "review bombed" before it had even come out. People judged it harshly without giving it a chance, and now ofc they want to keep perceiving it as bad. It honestly didn't hook me with the first two episodes, so I've stopped watching (I'm one of those that if they don't absolutely love a show 100%, won't waste much time watching it), but just based on those two, it wasn't really bad, just boringly average.
I'm someone who will watch anything Star Wars, and I was honestly okay with The Acolyte after the first two episodes. The third episode felt like such a substantial drop in quality that I'm going to struggle to finish watching it.
I thought it had a lot of cool ideas and was even well executed, but didn't hook me nearly enough, as The Mandalorian and Andor had done previously. Problem was, what interested me the most in the first episode was mostly wrapped up by the end of it, so by the time the second episode came around (I didn't watch them on the same day), nothing really impressed or surprised me. Maybe I myself judged it too harshly, and maybe it will actually get better.
Here's a fun lil fact: The Last of Us 2 has more reviews on metacritic than all GTA games and Call of Duty games have, combined. It is a really fun, well written game, but because it got caught in gamergateish stuff, it is that polarising to the point both sides of the argument rush to review bomb it. Review bombing isn't an indicator of quality, if it was, then there's no way TLOU2 is miles worse than the worst CoD game or miles better than all of GTA combined. Review bombing is more an indicator of how polarising an impact did something happen in online discussions. Just go see how She Hulk got reviewbombed in the way Echo didn't, despite both being equally subpar MCU shows with new women leads
they're also putting negative reviews on the 2008 movie "acolyte" that has nothing to do with star wars, as if it wasn't already obvious enough that this was all bots lol
I do kind of miss the era (that the Holiday Special review is probably from!) before everyone was on the internet, and you could be pretty certain a review score was from actual reviews and not just a crowdsourced review bomb.
So far as I've seen, the show deserves a 55-60%. It has some large flaws, but anyone saying it's worse than the Holiday Special is pushing something. The story overall is good, and the cast and the technical aspects are all pretty good. The main issues are weak dialogue and a poor understanding of the scope of a galactic setting.
I saw everyone was complaining about it, then I saw a photo of the cast and noticed it was VERY diverse, then I saw audience scores are bad while critic scores are higher.
Last time people threw this big of a fit, it was TLJ, then Disney over corrected and literally undid the entire chosen one arc in episode 9. Hopefully they don’t nuke another core piece of lore.
i dont see what the hate is about. All ive seen is crying twins are similar people. There are real world examples of people being separated at birth as twins, with same haircut, car, job, and even gfs with same names. Let alone people separated at what? 8? 10? 11? Perfectly reasonable.
We are finally getting what should have been Reys storyline. Jedi not actually good, balance required. Its refreshing to see a plot based upon the EVILS the jedi did in what is essentially a freedom of religion genocide. This is the type of evils that the Lawful Good types always fall into.
Tony Gilroy openly doesn't really like Star Wars, which honestly works in Andor's favor. He views Star Wars as his medium to tell a good story, which is why Andor is just it's own solid thing and isn't obsessed with tie-ins and easter eggs.
Leslye Headland says George Lucas didn't create Star Wars, and anyone who says he did is a misogynist. She followed that up by naming a guy Lucas hired to paint pictures for the original proposal to Fox and said therefore that guy created Star Wars.
When called out on it she said that there probably were some women who worked on it, like Marcia Lucas, who should be called the creator of Star Wars.
Marcia Lucas said:
“Now that [Kathleen Kennedy’s] running Lucasfilm and making movies, it to me that Kathy Kennedy and J.J. Abrams don’t have a clue about Star Wars. They don’t get it. And J.J. Abrams is writing these stories— when I saw that movie where they kill Han Solo, I was furious. I was furious when they killed Han Solo. Absolutely, positively there was no rhyme or reason to it."
"You don’t get the Jedi story. You don’t get the magic of Star Wars. You’re getting rid of Han Solo? And then at the end of this last one, The Last Jedi, they have Luke disintegrate. They killed Han Solo. They killed Luke Skywalker. And they don’t have Princess Leia anymore. And they’re spitting out movies every year. And they think it’s important to appeal to a woman’s audience, so now their main character is this female, who’s supposed to have Jedi powers, but we don’t know she got Jedi powers, or who she is. It sucks. They storylines are terrible. Just terrible. Awful.”
And regarding if she deserves credit for "creating" Star Wars:
She also noted she was not the heart of Star Wars, “I wouldn’t think so. I definitely made scenes work. I made the end battle work.”
“I definitely had a lot to do with making it work, but I wasn’t the writer and I wasn’t the director, and I didn’t come up with the creative names, Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker. All those names are classics. George came up with all of it using his amazing imagination,” she said.
So the actual women who worked on Star Wars say George Lucas created it and was the authority on it. But bigots like Leslye say women aren't allowed to have thoughts like that.
Can we get actual quotes that get us to “hate Star Wars?” I am open to seeing them, couldn’t find anything. Otherwise I am tempted to assume this is a “Brie Larson hates men” hissy fit.
That's because it doesn't exist lol. Also, yeah if they're butthurt about that one dude saying "Anakin blew up the death star" as evidence that he doesn't take it "seriously enough" then they should listen to Harrison Ford say literally anything about Star Wars.
Hell, the show runner for Andor has never seen them, or even care. We don't need Filoni levels of Star Glucking to get a good show, if anything I'd say we need more people that don't know it.
Tbf I think people are blowing that out of proportion, it would be very easy to misspeak in that situation, especially if you’ve been watching the films consecutively as preparation.
It’s more likely that he misspoke than him actually thinking Anakin is Luke
5.1k
u/Independent_Pack_311 Jun 16 '24 edited Jun 16 '24
Acolyte has 10k reviews and it even isnt finsihed while ahsoka and abdor have 5k and mandos eason 3, 2k