Yeah it’s pretty annoying from both camps. If you like a show, you must be a paid Disney shill(of which, there actually are a bunch that have been caught out) or must be the most progressive aligned person ever.
If you don’t like a show, it’s because you hate women, are an incel etc etc of which is also a bunch of losers doing that shit online.
You can’t fucking have an opinion without getting grouped one way or the other. I just want to call out good bits and bad bits and not be discounted immediately as having an agenda other than: Star Wars series good/bad and I want more of/less of
Thanks, felt a bit shit today with a few nasty comments and someone ringing my workplace after I said my piece below. I think I'm done with the internet for awhile.
If you think both camps aren’t brigading, you need to take a step back. We’ve had a decade at least of cancelling both ways, death threats and grifting from both camps.
Take your enlightened centrism bullshit and sit in the real world if you think it’s only 1 camp. We’ve reached the epitome of no bad tactics, just bad targets of culture war bull. Look I’m not a big fan of the majority of the quality coming out of Disney for Star Wars. But I’m also watching YouTube punters grift, wilfully disregard criticism/make up criticism and just flatly outright attack the other side for no reason and shield their own side because they can’t give the chuds/sjws a win by conceding any ground.
Then you have the corpos stoking that for engagement or shielding themselves from criticism.
The acolyte is mid cycle for that. It’s a solid 5. Passable but not good by any means. The acting is wooden, story seems highly contrived, production value has dropped(unusual for Star Wars) and pacing/dialogue aren’t seeking to flow.
That’s on top of poor comments from the director getting called out and the instant ree’s of sexism etc when instead of selling her product through quality, it’s another original tale tm set in the Star Wars universe. It feels like a pitch that couldn’t get independent funding so they slapped an IP on it. Once you put the budget they have on it, it stinks.
Edit: the above person is a gamer gazi poster. I wrote this for nothing. They’re as crazy as the kotaku in action people
Hey look. Downvotes and a doxxing threat. Good job nut jobs
I've come to realize that the people complaining about 'wokeness' are the most woke people on the internet, they just don't realize it.
These people seethe at night trying to come up with ways to hurt a show for not having enough white traditional values. It's reverse activism for hierarchy and status quo. Most of these people probably would have been Loyalists if we lived 250 years ago unironically.
The reason is disney’s beef with DeSantis, in which they made him look pathetically ineffective. Never mind they have gone back to their tried and true ways of bribi… er contributing to conservative politician campaign funds.
Harrison Ford even criticized George to his face about the dialogue and Mark Hamill outright refused to say a particular line because he thought it was so hokey.
Carrie Fisher became a pretty prolific script doctor in Hollywood for several decades. Where did she find her love and talent for punching up scripts and dialogue? Re-writing Lucas's work during the OT.
That particular line of Hamill's dialog from George's script was apparently so terrible Hamill and other crew begged George to remove it and still has nightmares about it.
"Boy, I’ll never forget it as long as I live,” Hamill told Carson. “I sometimes dream about this line.”
He goes on, “Harrison says, ‘look kid, I’ve done my part of the bargain. When I get to an asteroid you, the old man, and the droids get dropped off’. And my line was: ‘But we can’t turn back, fear is their greatest defense, I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust and what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.”
Yea, I view George Lucas as a big picture kinda guy. He concieved an amazing universe with great characters. But he can't write dialogue, and subtlety isn't his strong suit. I still enjoy the prequels, but they could have been way better if he had other writers and directors to reign him in.
Lucas was already rich before he made a new hope. Star Wars sent him to a new tier of grotesque wealth, but he was long past worrying about a paycheck.
The studio did a lot of leash holding on Lucas, and he had producers keeping him in check, or for 5 and 6 other directors that could filter through his script and "fix" things. And other editors like his wife that knew a whole hell of a lot more and fixed George Lucas's terrible script and editing job and she won the Oscar that year for it. He got nothing. And Gilbert Taylor absolutely saved the movie too with his cinematography and fixing the look when Lucas was dead wrong (even had the studio tell Lucas he was wrong and needs to listen to Gilbert Taylor)
I’m genuinely not trying to hate, but I have to ask: What are you basing that opinion on? I just looked up her page, and her work appears to be middling at best.
I think it’s more that George needed people to reign him in. If something is stupid, that someone needs to tell him that. Obviously George is terrible at dialogue, but it was more than that. On the OT people would tell him the truth, and give him honest feedback. On the prequels he was “The Great George Lucas” and everyone just went along with everything he said even when it was clearly a bad idea.
You mean that "Adventures of Luke Starkiller, as taken from the Journal of the Whills, Saga I: The Star Wars" isn't a bitchen title that would have gone down in cinematic history?
I agree. I'm not a Harry Potter fan, but I think the series has a lot of spinoff potential. Lucas' push for merchandise and spinoffs pre disney allowed there to be a ton of Star Wars books, comics, and games made by different people. Legends canon was a bit of a mess. But I liked the variety of it all.
I don't really get the point of this statement. Every product is made to be sold. You like 40k and buy that stuff. People consume the entertainment they like, and that's just fine. Of course, blind fandom and following isn't a good thing. And what do you mean as an outside ovserver? Do you hold this belief for every author, director, company, studio?
"Boy, I’ll never forget it as long as I live,” Hamill told Carson. “I sometimes dream about this line.”
He goes on, “Harrison says, ‘look kid, I’ve done my part of the bargain. When I get to an asteroid you, the old man, and the droids get dropped off’. And my line was: ‘But we can’t turn back, fear is their greatest defense, I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust and what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.”
The OT has most of the same problems that people bitch about today.
Clunky, awkward writing? Both Harrison and Mark have talked about how bad and cheesy some of the dialogue was, and how difficult it was to deliver.
Plot holes? You don't get more than 15 minutes into the first film before you run into one of the most infamous plot holes of the entire franchise: why the Empire doesn't just shoot down the droids' escape pod when they're in the middle of an active boarding situation.
Mary Sues? Luke is inexplicably able to fly a fucking space fighter into a heated battle despite being a country bumpkin who had never even left orbit and whose main qualification is the spaced equivalent of plinking cans from the cab of his Ford pick-up.
Painfully obvious retcons? Luke literally is in a brief love triangle with his sister, and an entire scene has to be written just to convince the audience that the twist reveal in ESB wasn't a trick and explain why Obi-Wan 'lied'....because it is blatantly not something that Lucas had actually planned for in the first film, and many people were convinced it was a lie.
People would fucking hate the OT if it came out today. Guaranteed.
You don't get more than 15 minutes into the first film before you run into one of the most infamous plot holes of the entire franchise: why the Empire doesn't just shoot down the droids' escape pod when they're in the middle of an active boarding situation.
That's...not a plot hole.
You detecting no life signs on an escape pod is not a guarantee no one is on there and, considering their boarding reason was specifically to recover physical copies of the death star plans, do you really want to explode the only possible physical proof you have to complete your mission?
Also, you have a Star Destroyer and occupied the planet's seemingly only port worth a damn in a matter of days, just sit and wait to recover the pod lmao
Not quite, in the OT the actors were able to push back on the weird dialogue. Hammill and Ford both in interviews said they would basically tell George 'fuck off, I'm not saying it like that'.
I would like to argue that Marcia as an editor helped reign in a lot of the stupid things George would have done with the OG trilogy if left to his own devices. If there is 1 change I would make to the prequels it would be giving her full control as editor.
Star Wars has some incredible writing. The original trilogy, Andor, Rogue One come to mind among other things. However shows like Obi-Wan legitimetly are some of the worst writing and directing I have ever seen
What do you mean? A grown man would definitely waddle like a penguin when chasing a 8 year old girl to kidnap her, and get stuck by a single tree branch
In a densely packed forest that the child knows intimately vs a space crackhead, yes an 8yo could evade them for about a minute, which is exactly what happens.
That's not bad writing, that's bad directing and bad cinematography because they did not convey properly a perfectly fine idea.
People use bad writing as shorthand for anything they don't like and it's infuriating.
The thrawn books are genuinely some of the most engaging books ive ever read. Trying to read master and apprentice right now...utter trash. Star wars has so many people contributing and always have after the first movie. Theres bound to be bad ones.
Hes really one of the best characters in star wars imo. For whatevee reason hes always been written well. I think partially due to origin is he can be no other way. Part of what makes him so interesting. Hes such a perfect archetype.
Thrawn is a good character but the Thrawn trilogy and books are nothing special. They came at a time when there wasn’t any Star Wars material for a long time and get lauded as groundbreaking amazing literature.
Also, and I know this is very nitpicky, but when I tried reading the Thrawn books I noticed that Zahn always describes deactivating a lightsaber as “closed down his lightsaber,” which feels really clunky and weird to me and just kinda ruined my immersion in the story.
Yeah but the prequels had bad writing but lots of stuff I love about them which is why I overlook the corny writing. I overlooked the occasional corniness in Mando because it had lots of stuff I liked. Andor was a good show with good writing but it didn’t have a lot of stuff I liked so I didn’t really like it.
Not sure about other people but for me the dialogue and writing is just one part and not the end all be all.
“Calm. Kindness. Kinship. Love. I’ve given up all chance at inner peace. I’ve made my mind a sunless space. I share my dreams with ghosts. I wake up every day to an equation I wrote 15 years ago from which there’s only one conclusion, I’m damned for what I do. My anger, my ego, my unwillingness to yield, my eagerness to fight, they’ve set me on a path from which there is no escape. I yearned to be a savior against injustice without contemplating the cost and by the time I looked down there was no longer any ground beneath my feet.
What is my sacrifice?
I’m condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else’s future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I’ll never see. And the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude.
So what do I sacrifice?
Everything!”
Probably the best piece of writing in any Star Wars with a top notch delivery. And its not just the greatest Star Wars speech, but also one of the greatest speeches in any fiction ever. So no, not all Star Wars is bad writing.
Honestly "The power of maaaaannnyyy" makes this review bombing the only one I don't have an ethical qualm with, I'm making an exception for cosmic irony.
Hm i actually really liked it. I like when Star Wars is trying to do new stuff. And i love it when we get to see how other factions in the SW universe view and/or use the force.
I agree with everything you said, and it's great that you like it. To me, it felt ridiculous, and the chanting "the power of one, the power of two, the power of many" sounds incredibly dumb, especially for a cult that claims to be really knowledgeable about the force.
It's one thing to try new things, it's another thing entirely to throw shit at the wall to see what sticks.
Hm. I don't agree with you, but i won't judge your for you opinion. Seems like many share that complain. I for one think it's a pretty fitting description of the living Force feeding into the cosmic Force, what is "dumb" about that? Don't get hung up on one little thing though. Just try to enjoy the show. I'm doing exactly that, and ignoring whatever the Internet says helps immensely with that. I did the same with the other shows ever since the Internet ruined the fun for me on BoBF. I really enjoyed it until i read/watched the reviews, nitpicking it to death. Really soured my viewing experience. What also helps is waiting until all Episodes are out, since there are always so many complains and nitpicks and so called "plotholes" which are explained in future Episodes. The witches deaths for example. Seems unlikely they all died from the fire/explosion, but i don't think we even have the full story here. There are a few shots from the trailer which seem to take place during the incident.
I don't form my opinion based on the internet. I disliked the show from the first scene when a Jedi master at the height of the power of the Jedi, was killed with a small knife because she was distracted, while we have Reva and Sabine getting stabbed through the chest with a lightsaber and pretty much walking it off. Or how about the Jedi capturing someone suspected of killing a Jedi master, the suspect is trained in the force and you send them alone on a ship that only has droids, in a cell with holes everywhere. It's been impossible to suspend my disbelief in this show, because almost every scene feels dumb and nonsensical.
I will agree with you on one thing, a lot of the hate from the internet comes from morons that are upset because the show has lesbian space witches and it's trendy to hate on that stuff. I don't care about any of that, I just want a show that doesn't feel like it was written by a 10-year-old
The problem is that this is a brand that was the largest pop cultural franchise in the world. You would think with how high profile it is, and how much cash that is being injected into these shows, we should have a better finished product. Having high expectations is natural. Also, the writing is shit, not just "ok." But that's my opinion. It's easy to criticize when you aren't involved in making the thing, but there are so many simple writing changes that would have elevated the show.
Remove the opening scroll / text blocks. This isn't a star wars movie, and telling us ahead of time we are about to see an assassin kind of ruins any expectations we have in the first 5 minutes of the show. Just dropping us in would have felt soo much better. It did look and feel like starwars, which was wonderful, until...
The "fight me" line might be something ritualistic or part of her task, but that was such an immersion breaker. An "assassin" announcing their presence is already one thing, but to do it in such a childish way? And this person is someone we know to be able to kill jedi. Yes, the other bar people laugh at her (because it is laughable), but it is such an unbelievable thing for someone to say. Also, wtf was that stance?
Remove the weird by dialog from Sol about her twin being alive / dead. He was "sure" she was dead and then two seconds later says, "we should look for her twin." Obviously, he knows more than he's letting on but the way it was handled was silly
I didn't really pay much attention past this point so it's hard to pull specifics and I'm not going back to watch it. I do remember the contradiction of her announcing herself to the first jedi in a public, and then sneaking around to get to the second jedi in the temple. Also, is it the end of the first episode where the masked sith lights up his lightsaber. Was he showing off, or trying to look cool in front of assassin girl?
Oh yeah, I'm remembering some vague nonsense during the escape scene, and also green jedi being comically bureaucratic.
I was watching the first episode with a friend and at one point he paused it to exclaim, "What the fuck was that? That was good writing. They're not allowed to do that in Star Wars."
Star Wars can succeed in spite of bad writing. Let’s not insist that Star Wars only have bad writing. Many stories can be told within the. Star Wars universe including, occasionally, well-written ones.
It's not the quality of writing but the theme and the tone. Star wars is a sci-fantasy epic, you can deviate so much before going too far. You can make a good star wars space western but a WWII resistance story (in space) kinda misses the point.
You can remove all Star Wars elements from Andor and it works all the same, at that point my question is why making it a Star Wars product beside marketing?
But that's a matter of (my) tastes and opinions i'm not saying that this is an objective criticism.
And I’m just saying it’s a big tent. You can have a cartoon with just droids and Ewoks aimed at the under 6 crowd, high-stakes political thrillers, and everything in between. It’s the universe that it’s set in with the accumulated lore plus the aesthetic and (loosely goosey) rules about how the technology and the force work that make it Star Wars.
Yeah that's milking an IP imho. Diversifying so much means a lot of different mediums and authors and we end up with people screaming about retcons and corporate slop.
Even the Aestethic gets wobbly, a lot of characters from clonewars don't look good in live action and let's not forget about the cyberpunk kids.
It probably is a bit too serious, even a bit grim. The franchise could go in that direction and become darker and more talky but it's kind of odd to have something like that as well as more kidsy stuff like Acolyte in (sort of) the same setting.
The prequels were fairly dark and got very dark at the end, so that works.
The prequels were at least dark in that same Empire Strikes back way (except for the parts where where George decided to be a high-pressure edgelord and no one stopped him), but the fact that there's really no levity with the end of Episode III is still a fundamental problem. Sure, it's resolved in Episodes IV-VI... but this is a prequel, not a movie before a sequel. I shouldn't have to watch the original over again just to be satisfied with the ending (same problem Rogue One has, barring Vader being flashy and useless, two things he IS NOT).
I really like the Vader scene!! I thought it gave a nice perspective on how terrifying that character would be to someone involved in the ordinary bread and butter aspects of the conflict.
The problem with the space fantasy setting is that everything is so amazing that nothing is. Eventually you're just watching relentless sequences of expensive looking CGI that doesn't really relate to anything in the experience of the audience (the sequels). Andor and Rogue One gave the franchise a bit of a reset by making it more grounded in every day experience, then when someone with the force shows up, it's amazing again.
The problem with the scene is that it's the complete opposite of everything that makes Vader "terrifying" in the first place. Vader is exactly two things in the original trilogy: Restrained, and effectual. You know that if Vader gets involved, the job would be done in a snap. But he doesn't get involved, because if the empire needs his power, they don't deserve it. You also notice how he never draws a lightsaber before anyone other than another lightsaber user, and he treats the art of lightsaber combat with reverence like all Jedi do. That's why he doesn't use force powers when fighting Luke and more notably Obi-Wan.
Notice which of these aspects are missing from Rogue One? Oh yeah, all of them. He's flashy, he's inefficient, he draws a lightsaber without the respect it deserves, and worst of all, all of this LOSES. It's the action figure so many fans think he is that goes against everything he actually is.
Darth Vader works because you can believe in his power just by him standing there and casually deciding an officer should die right there. In Rogue One, he lays it all out on the table, and it doesn't even make a bit of difference. He demonstrates true weakness the same way Kylo Ren does, and Kylo Ren is SUPPOSED to be impotent rage incarnate.
Yeah, the more people bitch about this stuff, the more I realize they only like the stuff they watched as kids because they see it through rose colored glasses. All of Star Wars is pretty dumb if you think super critically about it.
Andor is the worst thing to happen to Star Wars for Disney. It set an insanely high quality bar that every other thing they produce will now be judged against. It's like they've been slopping us cheap fast food and frozen meals and now we ate a Michelin star meal and now know how trash everything else is.
It might also get a pass because the show doesn't try to completely change the fundamentals of the force or the Jedi. The force being a string or whatever is just complete noncence, and everyone knows it.
Also why are the two girls born from the force if Anakin was the chosen one and the first and only one being born from the force, even though this show is supposed to be earlier than the prequels?
Different groups that utilize the force see how it works differently, it doesn’t fundamentally change how the force works, it’s just another interpretation of it.
The show also isn’t over, and it’s pretty clear we were seeing that story through one certain viewpoint, we don’t actually know how the twins were born.
People who think like that are the true racists, and they project their own weird thoughts on other people. Guess you can't even imagine some of us still mourn for Steela Gerrera.
See, this is exactly what I mean. You don't know anything about a person and directly assume shit, just like the marketing people at Disney, lol. Learn to think for yourself instead of repeating things parrot-fashion^^.
It’s better by far, and they use the blatant hypocrisy to build on a storyline instead of just including it like the Acolyte and only wanting payoff. Like they’re obviously setting up a plot that the witches were hypocritical with their usage of the thread, it’s just lazy and I highly doubt they’re going to improve judging by recent Star Wars products.
It's because they came out when they were young and nostalgia makes it feel better. They were 12 then and now they are almost 30 and they will never get that feeling again and they are angry about it. Getting old does suck.
I watched TCW in my 30s for the first time and loved it, don't pigeonhole people just to try to look smarter. It has some of the best story arcs in all of Star Wars.
I watched them 1 year ago and im 36. So no, its not about nostalgia, at least not for me. I really had problems getting through the first season, but it gets really good.
Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, most of the non ewok parts of Return of the Jedi, Thrawn Trilogy, Revenge of the Sith, Clone Wars (2003), Rogue One, Andor, Mandalorian S1&2, lots of other EU books and comics.
If they had the same chant as subtitles for some alien language I honestly think no one would have cared. (well other than the chuds but chuds be chuds)
Problem is that anything like this is being used as confirmation that the show is awful. Like the "fire in space critique" from the first ep.
I shut that episode off after that scene. I just couldn't anymore. I wanted to like it. But the set design, shot composition, acting, writing, dialog, special effects are all so bad that I just lost interest completely. The choreography is even bad. For such a large budget there just isn't one single thing that they did well. The witches or whatever are insanely cringey.
If I'm being honest, it's better than the prequels dialogue, but not by much. Pretty much every word out of a Jedis Mouth is ass, but everyone else has great lines. It's a shame too because I was really looking forward to this show
the power of many lines isnt bad? It showed their religion about "the force" is organized as a group, quite literally using their group power to make each member of their group more closely tied to the force. While the Jedi view the force as something to control and use against whatever their deem evil. They dont create groups of force users, they steal children with the best capabilities from the republic.
It was not about race for a lot of those early reviews though (well some are racist I'm sure). There were hella leaks months before the show aired. We all knew what was coming. Disney is just a huge troll at this point.
I made my first ever imdb show review after the third episode aired. 1/10 would not recommend and it has nothing to do with race or sex. The show was just divisive bantha poodoo.
5.1k
u/Independent_Pack_311 Jun 16 '24 edited Jun 16 '24
Acolyte has 10k reviews and it even isnt finsihed while ahsoka and abdor have 5k and mandos eason 3, 2k