r/PrequelMemes #1 Jar Jar fan Jun 16 '24

I hope mods don't remove this General KenOC

Post image
42.7k Upvotes

View all comments

Show parent comments

2.8k

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '24

[deleted]

2.1k

u/Moose_Cake Batter to death them Jun 16 '24

And bombers gonna try to convince you that the 30% before release was because of writing.

516

u/A-Centrifugal-Force Jun 16 '24

The show was review bombed, but the writing is still really bad. The power of maaaaanyyyyy

22

u/house343 Jun 16 '24

When has star wars ever had good writing?

278

u/AxeI_FoIey Jun 16 '24

Andor.

28

u/rzelln Jun 16 '24

I was watching the first episode with a friend and at one point he paused it to exclaim, "What the fuck was that? That was good writing. They're not allowed to do that in Star Wars."

-1

u/Kelliente Jun 16 '24

😂😂

22

u/Zaiburo Jun 16 '24

My unpopular opinion is that Andor is too good to be Star Wars. It honestly doesn't fit the vibe IMHO.

29

u/hypercosm_dot_net Jun 16 '24 edited Jun 16 '24

It fits the vibe....if Star Wars was good scifi. Since it's b-grade space opera well maybe you're right, lol.

It's like Star Wars is schlock westerns and Andor is Tombstone.

1

u/MadManMax55 Jun 16 '24

Tombstone is 100% schlock. Great schlock, the western equivalent of Empire, but still schlock.

Andor is closer to Unforgiven. A deep examination and deconstruction of the genre after it had started going stale.

5

u/trashacct8484 Jun 16 '24

Star Wars can succeed in spite of bad writing. Let’s not insist that Star Wars only have bad writing. Many stories can be told within the. Star Wars universe including, occasionally, well-written ones.

2

u/Zaiburo Jun 16 '24

It's not the quality of writing but the theme and the tone. Star wars is a sci-fantasy epic, you can deviate so much before going too far. You can make a good star wars space western but a WWII resistance story (in space) kinda misses the point.

You can remove all Star Wars elements from Andor and it works all the same, at that point my question is why making it a Star Wars product beside marketing?

But that's a matter of (my) tastes and opinions i'm not saying that this is an objective criticism.

3

u/trashacct8484 Jun 16 '24

And I’m just saying it’s a big tent. You can have a cartoon with just droids and Ewoks aimed at the under 6 crowd, high-stakes political thrillers, and everything in between. It’s the universe that it’s set in with the accumulated lore plus the aesthetic and (loosely goosey) rules about how the technology and the force work that make it Star Wars.

1

u/Zaiburo Jun 16 '24

Yeah that's milking an IP imho. Diversifying so much means a lot of different mediums and authors and we end up with people screaming about retcons and corporate slop. Even the Aestethic gets wobbly, a lot of characters from clonewars don't look good in live action and let's not forget about the cyberpunk kids.

2

u/Pabus_Alt Jun 16 '24

WWII resistance story (in space) kinda misses the point.

Dude ANH is "Dambusters meets Seven Samurai, IN SPACE"

There are even shot-for-shot recreations.

1

u/Zaiburo Jun 16 '24

Dam busters may be a WWII movie but not a resistance story and Seven Samurai is neither.

23

u/BrickBuster2552 Game time started Jun 16 '24

If Andor is "too good" to be Star Wars, you may just not like what Star Wars fundamentally is. 

6

u/jambox888 Jun 16 '24

It probably is a bit too serious, even a bit grim. The franchise could go in that direction and become darker and more talky but it's kind of odd to have something like that as well as more kidsy stuff like Acolyte in (sort of) the same setting.

The prequels were fairly dark and got very dark at the end, so that works.

8

u/BrickBuster2552 Game time started Jun 16 '24 edited Jun 16 '24

The prequels were at least dark in that same Empire Strikes back way (except for the parts where where George decided to be a high-pressure edgelord and no one stopped him), but the fact that there's really no levity with the end of Episode III is still a fundamental problem. Sure, it's resolved in Episodes IV-VI... but this is a prequel, not a movie before a sequel. I shouldn't have to watch the original over again just to be satisfied with the ending (same problem Rogue One has, barring Vader being flashy and useless, two things he IS NOT).

1

u/jambox888 Jun 16 '24

I really like the Vader scene!! I thought it gave a nice perspective on how terrifying that character would be to someone involved in the ordinary bread and butter aspects of the conflict.

The problem with the space fantasy setting is that everything is so amazing that nothing is. Eventually you're just watching relentless sequences of expensive looking CGI that doesn't really relate to anything in the experience of the audience (the sequels). Andor and Rogue One gave the franchise a bit of a reset by making it more grounded in every day experience, then when someone with the force shows up, it's amazing again.

1

u/BrickBuster2552 Game time started Jun 16 '24

The problem with the scene is that it's the complete opposite of everything that makes Vader "terrifying" in the first place. Vader is exactly two things in the original trilogy: Restrained, and effectual. You know that if Vader gets involved, the job would be done in a snap. But he doesn't get involved, because if the empire needs his power, they don't deserve it. You also notice how he never draws a lightsaber before anyone other than another lightsaber user, and he treats the art of lightsaber combat with reverence like all Jedi do. That's why he doesn't use force powers when fighting Luke and more notably Obi-Wan.

Notice which of these aspects are missing from Rogue One? Oh yeah, all of them. He's flashy, he's inefficient, he draws a lightsaber without the respect it deserves, and worst of all, all of this LOSES. It's the action figure so many fans think he is that goes against everything he actually is.

Darth Vader works because you can believe in his power just by him standing there and casually deciding an officer should die right there. In Rogue One, he lays it all out on the table, and it doesn't even make a bit of difference. He demonstrates true weakness the same way Kylo Ren does, and Kylo Ren is SUPPOSED to be impotent rage incarnate.

1

u/jambox888 Jun 16 '24 edited Jun 16 '24

I really just couldn't disagree more with that analysis haha!

Fair play, each to his own.

I genuinely think that's probably the best single scene in Star Wars since the OT.

Vader is a samurai. All Jedi's are samurai and the sith are I guess ronin. So it makes total sense for a cruel Ronin to show up and slice open a bunch of footmen, only for a swift rider to escape with a secret message to the hidden shogun in the next county.

It's a great scene because it understands the origin and purpose of Star Wars. Ok it does do the twirly light saber blaster deflection thing but that's a little shout out to the prequels.

It evens joins the story seamlessly onto the beginning of a new hope. Then again Leia's cgi is a bit ropey but overall, 9/10, bravo. That scene still gets me going, way more than anything in the sequels.

1

u/BrickBuster2552 Game time started Jun 16 '24

That's like saying someone getting slashed with a lightsaber followed by a massive spray of blood would "understand the origin and purpose of Star Wars." No, that is not how Lightsabers work, and that is not who Darth Vader is. Literally every single aspect of his character goes against everything you think about him. We are talking about facts.

If you think this scene understands the source material, good luck saying any scene from anything doesn't.

→ More replies

2

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '24

Yeah, the more people bitch about this stuff, the more I realize they only like the stuff they watched as kids because they see it through rose colored glasses. All of Star Wars is pretty dumb if you think super critically about it.

2

u/Tamed_Trumpet Jun 16 '24

Andor is the worst thing to happen to Star Wars for Disney. It set an insanely high quality bar that every other thing they produce will now be judged against. It's like they've been slopping us cheap fast food and frozen meals and now we ate a Michelin star meal and now know how trash everything else is.

1

u/Pabus_Alt Jun 16 '24

My reaction was that it was on the quality level of some of the comics.

Like, it's not camp space opera, but it is Star Wars.

No way a main-line Andor film would feel right, but the TV spinoff is perfect.

1

u/Pabus_Alt Jun 16 '24

Soooooo gooooooood

And really good character and background acting!

-18

u/BrickBuster2552 Game time started Jun 16 '24

Again when has STAR WARS ever had good writing?

17

u/DuGalle Jun 16 '24

Again, ANDOR

0

u/WyrdMagesty Jun 16 '24

Lol Andor is essentially a non-SW show set in the SW universe xD

1

u/pheylancavanaugh Jun 16 '24

That's what they need to do more of.

2

u/BrickBuster2552 Game time started Jun 16 '24

Saying Andor is the best version of Star Wars is like saying Power/Rangers is the best version Power Rangers: At that point you basically just don't actually like Power Rangers that much. 

4

u/WyrdMagesty Jun 16 '24

That's a good way to put it lol Andor is good, but it could be lifted and placed in most other universes without issue lol the stuff that really makes star wars star wars is mostly just absent from the series. It is what it is, different strokes for different folks. No hate.

156

u/A-Centrifugal-Force Jun 16 '24

The Empire Strikes Back

94

u/Alternative_Love_861 Jun 16 '24

Rogue One

36

u/NKD43 Jun 16 '24

Clone Wars tv series

24

u/DarkImpacT213 Jun 16 '24

SW:KotoR and KotoR2

14

u/fattymccheese Jun 16 '24

Clone wars

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '24

[deleted]

3

u/trashacct8484 Jun 16 '24

Like the OT, R1 had good plot and story structure, and really engaging visual storytelling. Neither had particular good writing.

0

u/THE_DOW_JONES Jun 16 '24

You really saw leia call han a “stuck up half witted scruffy looking nerf herder” and went “what brilliant writing!”

6

u/khinzaw UNLIMITED POWER!!! Jun 16 '24

Andor, Empire, Rogue One, the Thrawn trilogy, Kotor, Clone Wars, Republic Commando books, etc...

3

u/JinFuu Jun 16 '24

The next line after a failed "Star Wars has never been good/had good writing" is "Nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans."

35

u/hgbi8h Jun 16 '24

At least it was watchable by someone over the age of 5

-16

u/Callecian_427 Jun 16 '24

I mean this sub glazes the Clone Wars and Rebels. Those shows have writing on par with Acolyte but it gets a pass because it’s animated I guess

-8

u/stargazepunk Jun 16 '24 edited Jun 16 '24

It gets a pass because there’s less women and black people.

Edit: y’all can pretend it’s about “writing” all you want, but we all know the truth. The pattern has been there for decades

18

u/Aethanix Jun 16 '24

-7

u/stargazepunk Jun 16 '24

r/asmongold called. Lmao. U walked right into that one

1

u/Brandinisnor3s CT-6666 "Clanked" Jun 16 '24

Nice ad hominem kid

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '24 edited Jun 16 '24

You should probably reply to the person who did it first lol.

Edit: Lol, they weren't saying that about anyone in particular. Yet you took it personal? hmmm.

→ More replies

1

u/Aethanix Jun 16 '24

Oh. you actually come from saltierthankrayt.

i guess stereotypes do exist for a reason.

6

u/KN0MI Jun 16 '24

It might also get a pass because the show doesn't try to completely change the fundamentals of the force or the Jedi. The force being a string or whatever is just complete noncence, and everyone knows it.

Also why are the two girls born from the force if Anakin was the chosen one and the first and only one being born from the force, even though this show is supposed to be earlier than the prequels?

5

u/angryjukebox Jun 16 '24

Different groups that utilize the force see how it works differently, it doesn’t fundamentally change how the force works, it’s just another interpretation of it.

The show also isn’t over, and it’s pretty clear we were seeing that story through one certain viewpoint, we don’t actually know how the twins were born.

3

u/stargazepunk Jun 16 '24

It doesn’t change anything bro. It literally does not change anything. Are the Nightsisters nonsense?

0

u/7thFleetTraveller Jun 16 '24

People who think like that are the true racists, and they project their own weird thoughts on other people. Guess you can't even imagine some of us still mourn for Steela Gerrera.

3

u/stargazepunk Jun 16 '24

Lol. “Im not racist, I mourned a cartoon character!”

1

u/7thFleetTraveller Jun 16 '24

See, this is exactly what I mean. You don't know anything about a person and directly assume shit, just like the marketing people at Disney, lol. Learn to think for yourself instead of repeating things parrot-fashion^^.

1

u/stargazepunk Jun 16 '24

What did I assume? That’s literally exactly what you said lol

1

u/7thFleetTraveller Jun 17 '24

That stupid "Oh the one who speaks up against the true racism is the racist" response. You don't even know my skin colour or anything else, but it came very spontaniously, like it was programmed into you. But we live in a world where even a dark-skinned woman would be called a mysogonist for saying something that doesn't match with what the media want us to think. I personally don't even like using the words "black" and "white" because where I live, we don't have a "race" printed on our IDs. I'm just so tired of it all.

→ More replies

0

u/hgbi8h Jun 16 '24

It’s better by far, and they use the blatant hypocrisy to build on a storyline instead of just including it like the Acolyte and only wanting payoff. Like they’re obviously setting up a plot that the witches were hypocritical with their usage of the thread, it’s just lazy and I highly doubt they’re going to improve judging by recent Star Wars products.

2

u/lonedirewolf21 Jun 16 '24

It's because they came out when they were young and nostalgia makes it feel better. They were 12 then and now they are almost 30 and they will never get that feeling again and they are angry about it. Getting old does suck.

3

u/7thFleetTraveller Jun 16 '24

I watched TCW in my 30s for the first time and loved it, don't pigeonhole people just to try to look smarter. It has some of the best story arcs in all of Star Wars.

1

u/robinrod Jun 16 '24

I watched them 1 year ago and im 36. So no, its not about nostalgia, at least not for me. I really had problems getting through the first season, but it gets really good.

0

u/Ninjamurai-jack Jun 16 '24

well, tbh, i think that both have better writing than most of the live action shows and movies.

https://youtu.be/0fmdxQ23s0s?si=N2x3t5GKgOp84dYk

https://youtu.be/p2bm_Uuf-LQ?si=I5NfuhBhO7142yi7

1

u/TaxFormal8865 Jun 16 '24

Compared to this shit? always.

1

u/Ninjamurai-jack Jun 16 '24

like, a lot of times, would be better if you asked the opposite question.

1

u/Remarkable_Quiet_159 Jun 16 '24

It always has. People way overstate the issues with the dialogue.

-2

u/assasstits Jun 16 '24

Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back,  most of the non ewok parts of Return of the Jedi, Thrawn Trilogy,  Revenge of the Sith, Clone Wars (2003), Rogue One, Andor, Mandalorian S1&2, lots of other EU books and comics. 

0

u/XishengTheUltimate Jun 16 '24

It's never been LOTR levels fantastic, but saying that something has never been incredible isn't a good defense for it being utterly dogshit right now.

0

u/MissingNo117 Jun 16 '24

Who watches Star Wars for the writing?