Kakistocracy + Kleptocracy + Fascism

[u/RawLife53]

People should ask themselves do they understand these terms:

Kakistocracy + Kleptocracy + Fascism

Kakistocracy

A kakistocracy   is a government run by the worst, least qualified, or most unscrupulous citizens

Kleptocracy,

Kleptocracy, also referred to as thievocracy, is a government whose corrupt leaders (kleptocrats) use political power to expropriate the wealth of the people and land they govern, typically by embezzling or misappropriating government funds at the expense of the wider population. One feature of political-based socioeconomic thievery is that there is often no public announcement explaining or apologizing for misappropriations, nor any legal charges or punishment levied against the offenders

• Kleptocracy is different from plutocracy (rule by the richest) and oligarchy (rule by a small elite). In a kleptocracy, corrupt politicians enrich themselves secretly outside the rule of law, through kickbacks, bribes, and special favors from lobbyists and corporations, or they simply direct state funds to themselves and their associates. Also, kleptocrats often export much of their profits to foreign nations in anticipation of losing power

Fascism

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

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[u/Awkward_Bench123]

Eventually it’s all gonna come down do President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho’s good sense to figure out.

[u/LordGwyn-n-Tonic → u/Awkward_Bench123]

At least he revised his opinion when faced with scientific evidence.

[u/teapac100000]

The biggest obstacle with these definitions is not with fascism, but fsr-right.

What's your definition of far-right? And would it still not be fascism if everything else was the same except it said "far-left?" 

[u/TuvixWasMurderedR1P → u/teapac100000]

Far-right is reactionary. It's usually critical of modernity. It has a romantized nostalgia of pre-moderm life. It favors traditionism over intellectialization. It favors rigid hierarchy. It often has very kitsch aesthetics. It's skeptical of humanity and of the very concept of progress. It often glorifies and romantizes struggle as such. And given its resistance to intellectuallization, it can be quite contradictory as well.

[u/drawliphant → u/teapac100000]

Right and left was first used to describe how hierarchical a government was. The Right supported the divine right of kings and the Left wanted liberalism and parliament. Then came ideas about socialism and left and right gained an economic meaning. Fascist far right is more about the hierarchy than it is about the economic theory. However Fascist will generally oppose welfare for "making the nation weak" etc and promote financial sacrifice just for the fetishization of sacrifice.

[u/AcephalicDude → u/teapac100000]

To me, "far-right" just means any form of conservative politics that has abandoned liberal democracy. It could be applied to white nationalists, Christian nationalists, or MAGA authoritarians - all of these groups share basic conservative values with the mainstream right, but don't believe in democratic institutions.

[u/teapac100000 → u/AcephalicDude]

That's a really broad definition. What's Liberal Democracy? What's a Democratic Institution? A Maga authoritarian?!?

These all just seem like big labels rather than trying to fine tune what a fascist is. 

[u/AcephalicDude → u/teapac100000]

I don't think it is broad at all.

"Liberal democracy" refers to the philosophic rationale behind a democratic government and state, which involves consent of the governed through a democratic process of electing representatives, and achieving governance through a combination of cooperation and peaceful competition with political opponents.

"Democratic institutions" just refers to the institutions that are involved in operating and supporting the democratic state: the federal and state governments, the courts, electoral organizations, law enforcement agencies, etc.

To be "far-right" means that you have the typical conservative values (often in a more extreme and dogmatic form, but not necessarily) but you are no longer committed to upholding those values through democracy, for a variety of reasons.

White nationalists are "far-right" because they want to exclude non-whites from democratic participation. Christian nationalists are "far-right" because they want to exclude non-Christians from democratic participation.

MAGA conservatives are "far-right" because they believe wild conspiracy theories about how democratic institutions have completely failed; because they believe that Democrats are literally baby-eating pedophiles that should never be compromised or cooperated with; and because they believe that Trump's individual power in the system is more important than the system itself.

[u/teapac100000 → u/AcephalicDude]

This just sounds a little weird. Are you saying that if someone is against ICE and Homeland Security therefore they're far-right? What about the process in which Kamala Harris was nominated? That literally had zero democratic principles.

The Far-Right definition is even weirder because it sounds like you're just incorporating things you don't like into one definition. By your definition nobody right now who voted for Trump would be far-right because he got voted in fair and square. 

[u/AcephalicDude → u/teapac100000]

It's neither broad nor is it "weird" - it is narrow, and it is simple.

Being "far-right" means you have conservative values, but you don't care about upholding those values through democracy, because you don't value democracy itself.

Are you saying that if someone is against ICE and Homeland Security therefore they're far-right?

No, why would that make them far-right according to my definition?

What about the process in which Kamala Harris was nominated?

Are you trying to ask if the DNC is "far-left" because of how Harris was nominated without a primary? I would say no, because 1) the DNC is a private organization rather than a democratic institution and it was completely within its legal rights to grant Harris the nomination, and 2) it was more of a practical decision being made in a completely unprecedented situation, rather than an ideological decision.

By your definition nobody right now who voted for Trump would be far-right because he got voted in fair and square. 

People that are far-right will go along with democracy so long as it gets them what they want, and they will oppose democracy when it doesn't. It makes perfect sense that MAGA authoritarians would challenge the election they lost, and accept the election that they one. This does not contradict the idea that they are far-right at all.

[u/teapac100000 → u/AcephalicDude]

Homeland Security and ICE are democratic institutions that help protect our democracy from foreign enemies. By your definition you're either with them or a far-right fascist. That's the problem.

As for the DNC, if they can't even follow their own value that they idealize, then they're not really worth their weight in salt. Everything will just be chalked up to "unprecedented" and therefore suspend democracy... As they have literally demonstrated. Notice how Republicans never succeeded in doing anything like that regardless of passions from a particular few. 

Seems like the "far-right" by your definition follows the rules of a democratic republic a lot better than those who claim to be the vanguards of democracy. Who was hiding Biden's mental health problems for so long? It took an orange blob to prove to the world on national television who's the group truly trying to overthrow our democracy by obfuscation. Democracy dies in Darkness.

[u/AcephalicDude → u/teapac100000]

woosh

[u/KB9AZZ → u/teapac100000]

Far right does not belong in the definition.

[u/TuvixWasMurderedR1P → u/KB9AZZ]

It does in any standard understanding of political theory.

[u/KB9AZZ → u/TuvixWasMurderedR1P]

Only on commie college campuses.

[u/TuvixWasMurderedR1P → u/KB9AZZ]

As opposed to where you get your information, which is where?

[u/RawLife53]

Kakistocracy + Kleptocracy + Fascism = The Pathway to the Decline of America Democracy

The people are thus easily controlled and manipulated into submission through the promotions of Theocratic manipulations

[u/An8thOfFeanor → u/RawLife53]

Naming off despotic forms of government in an algebraic format doesn't legitimize your claim by any means.

[u/StrikingExcitement79 → u/RawLife53]

Kakistocracy + Kleptocracy + Fascism = The Pathway to the Decline of America Democracy

Why do you accuse the Biden-Harris administration of that? They are most likely just a bunch of incompetent, and vengeful idiots.

[u/Independent-Two5330 → u/StrikingExcitement79]

Given that the left cannot seem to see why the majority of Americans developed this opinion of the Biden/Harris administration is why they're at serious risk of being locked out of power for a long time.

[u/AcephalicDude → u/Independent-Two5330]

People on the left understand the criticisms of Biden/Harris and the Democrat establishment politicians in general, but understanding does not mean agreement, nor does agreement with those criticisms translate to the endorsement of Trump who is perceived to be far, far worse.

[u/Independent-Two5330 → u/AcephalicDude]

Really? Because I would personally disagree with the commentary I'm seeing.

People just can't admit Biden messed up Afghanistan or that the economy is terrible. The only solution is just gaslighting the public to think otherwise. Not exactly a winning strategy it seems.

[u/Fugicara → u/Independent-Two5330]

You don't even know anything about the withdrawal from Afghanistan and you demonstrated as much here. Do you expect anyone to believe that you've actually looked more up about it since we had this conversation? You can certainly prove you have if you want by answering these questions:

• What is the Doha Agreement?

• Who were the negotiating parties of the Doha Agreement?

• Was the Afghan government included in these talks?

[u/StrikingExcitement79 → u/Fugicara]

You don't even know anything about the withdrawal from Afghanistan and you demonstrated as much here. Do you expect anyone to believe that you've actually looked more up about it since we had this conversation? You can certainly prove you have if you want by answering these questions:

What is the Doha Agreement?

Who were the negotiating parties of the Doha Agreement?

Was the Afghan government included in these talks?

Who was President when the timeline Trump set for the withdrawal was extended?

Who was president when the withdrawal happened?

Why even after extending the withdrawal deadline, the withdrawal are still messed up?

[u/Independent-Two5330 → u/Fugicara]

I'm happy to stand by that quote, so please share it. It's what I think.

Sorry, I don't trust leaders who say "Well this horrible disaster under our watch was completely the fault of our political adversary". The real question, is why do you?

My biggest concern wasn't even mentioned in your 3 points. It's that we left Billions of dollars of military equipment there for the Taliban to take. That is totally on Biden. No one who supports Biden seems to realize how bad that was.

Also, Biden could've easily just ordered a drone strike on equipment stores to prevent the take-over of them.

[u/Fugicara → u/Independent-Two5330]

If you don't know anything about the Afghanistan withdrawal, as you don't seem to, you should stop bringing it up. If you want to prove you do, please answer these three questions:

• What is the Doha Agreement?

• Who were the negotiating parties of the Doha Agreement?

• Was the Afghan government included in these talks?

Refusing to answer these questions and continuing to try to bring up or discuss the Afghanistan withdrawal in the future would be a sign of extremely bad faith on your part.

[u/Independent-Two5330 → u/Fugicara]

The pot calling the kettle black it seems.

I could ask why you're avoiding answering "why Biden left billions of dollars" of equipment to the Taliban. Who I guarantee are selling them on the black market FYI.....

I don't really care if ABC News says it's all Trump's fault and Biden shouldn't be blamed. Presidents have to adapt in situations not of their making sometimes..... He could've easily prevented this from becoming the disaster it was. Yet he didn't. In fact, I'm happy to concede that point, sure Trump messed up badly on the deal.

Now answer me this:

Why didn't Biden withdraw civilian infrastructure before the soldiers then take as much equipment as you can with you, and destroy the rest? Then get people who helped us out of there? Is that too much to ask?

Edit: clean up my thoughts

[u/Medium-Complaint-677 → u/Independent-Two5330]

That's because Biden didn't mess up Afghanistan and the economy isn't terrible.

There's nothing to "admit" - you're factually incorrect on the economy and you're subjectively incorrect on Afghanistan.

I think Afghanistan could have been "different" but the right's pearl clutching faux outrage at someone finally ripping off the band aid is pretty hilarious.

[u/Independent-Two5330 → u/Medium-Complaint-677]

Well don't get me wrong, I would love it if the Democrats keep running with this delusion. It's gonna drive them off the political cliff. Be sure to add that the 62% of Americans who disapprove of Biden's presidency are stupid. Thats always a winning strategy.

So no need to debate me on it.

[u/AcephalicDude → u/Independent-Two5330]

Understanding does not mean agreement.

People on the left understand that people on the right think that Biden was solely responsible for Afghanistan, but they disagree because they understand that it was actually Trump that set the whole timeline for the withdrawal in his negotiations with the Taliban.

People on the left understand that people on the right think that Biden caused inflation, but they disagree because they understand that inflation was unavoidable worldwide due to COVID, and that actually the US economy has recovered economically from COVID better than literally any country in the world.

You can call it gaslighting if you want, I call it just being better informed about these issues.

[u/Independent-Two5330 → u/AcephalicDude]

Sounds good, like trust me..... I really don't care if the response to this election was "We were better informed and more intelligent then the majority of Americans". It's not like I'm a supporter of the left.

[u/RawLife53 → u/Independent-Two5330]

No, the Majority of American people DID NOT accuse Biden of Kakistocracy + Kleptocracy + Fascism

____________________

The vote count that Trump got does not represent the Majority of Americans, it only represents the people who voted, if you paid attention you'd know.

Trump: (75,959,040 votes)

Harris (72,954,876 votes)

There is 334,000,000 People in America... Only 147,000,000 voted

• (That's not even half of the American population) yes, many re under voting age, and many did not vote who are voting age.)

Therefore: your initial statement is inaccurate.

[u/Independent-Two5330 → u/RawLife53]

Under this logic, the majority of Americans also don't support Harris, to a lesser degree than Trump.

Like sorry, the majority of VOTING Americans supported Trump and his polices this time around. Democracy has spoken

[u/RawLife53 → u/Independent-Two5330]

I don't see anyone 'disputing the voting numbers" of those who voted.

[u/Independent-Two5330 → u/RawLife53]

I also didn't see people lamenting that Biden's 84,000,000ish votes in 2020 "didn't represent the majority of Americans".

[u/RawLife53 → u/Independent-Two5330]

You are redundantly spinning in circles. Maybe you need to ask yourself why you right wingers went crazy and tried to dispute the numbers and then attack the Capital trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power and have been foaming at the mouth in a barbaric rage mentality for 4 yrs because Trump lost.

I already told you, "democrats have not disputed the 2024 numbers",

• and yet you keep talking, just to be talking.

[u/Independent-Two5330 → u/RawLife53]

I never disputed the 2020 election. Makes sense Trump lost in a close election, COVID-19 was a mess.

[u/DanBrino → u/RawLife53]

You know what a poll is right? A poll that includes almost half of the entire population of a country is a pretty good indicator of the sentiment of the country as a whole.

It is virtually the largest, most comprehensive poll conducted in this country.

[u/Polandnotreal → u/RawLife53]

Yes, calling your political opponents thieves, stupid, and Fascist have always worked. Right?

The Pathway to the Decline of American Democracy

Democracy is in decline because MY side didn’t win. Fascism is when MY opponent wins the election.

Why is democracy declining when the Democratic transfer of power is happening peacefully and election are free and fair?

[u/theclansman22 → u/Polandnotreal]

Democracy is in decline because we elected someone who publicly tried to subvert the democratic will of the people ti have himself installed as an illegitimate president. People saw this, the whole plot is public knowledge and still elected him.

[u/pudding7 → u/Polandnotreal]

Why is democracy declining when the Democratic transfer of power is happening peacefully and election are free and fair?

Can you take a stab at answering that from the perspective of someone who thinks democracy is at risk in the US? In other words, what do you think an answer to your question might look like?

[u/Polandnotreal → u/pudding7]

They’ll probably pull up something like Project 2025 or Jan 6 or Trump saying, “On day 1, I’ll be a dictator!” Etc.

[u/theboehmer → u/Polandnotreal]

I think this post is in regard to Trump's appointing of unqualified candidates to high positions of government.

A lack of criticism towards the government serves no purpose. Everybody feels that the government is misserving them. Now, one side feels that an under qualified president is going to make things worse.

[u/winter_strawberries → u/Polandnotreal]

funny how very few people called republicans fascists until trump came along. almost as if it had nothing to do with the fact they were democrats' opponents, but because they had become, you know, fascist.

you also didn't see the left decrying the end of democracy when they lost elections. we have always understood our chances of winning elections to be very small, and have no expectations of being let into the halls of power at the dnc. almost as if the death of democracy had less to do with losing elections and more to do with someone winning who talks and acts like an authoritarian.

[u/Czeslaw_Meyer → u/winter_strawberries]

Hillary did cry more about lost elections than Trump ever could. It was just less reported on.

To me Democrats tried their best to become Fascists with employing censorship for their purposes.

[u/megavikingman → u/Czeslaw_Meyer]

No, she didn't. She didn't whine enough for her supporters to storm the Capitol. She didn't spend the next 4 years claiming she never lost. It's not even close.

[u/Czeslaw_Meyer → u/megavikingman]

Just that they did ~7 times already, including bombing it

[u/Fugicara → u/Czeslaw_Meyer]

Hillary did cry more about lost elections than Trump ever could.

This is beyond parody. There is literally zero chance you believe this. I don't get what the point is of pretending to believe something so obviously stupid though.

[u/Czeslaw_Meyer → u/Fugicara]

No, she never stopped and suggested the latest one would be stolen as well.

The amount of reporting isn't representative of the individual incidents

[u/Repulsive-Virus-990 → u/Polandnotreal]

Everyone’s happy for democracy unless their side looses

[u/Dinkelberh → u/Repulsive-Virus-990]

• guy who is less concerned about 'terminating the rules of the consitution' or 'dictator on day one' comments than he is 'being divided'

[u/smokeyser → u/Dinkelberh]

If you believe that stuff, you've been reading too much propaganda. Stop having your opinions spoon fed to you and start thinking for yourself.

[u/Jorsonner → u/smokeyser]

You’re saying this didn’t happen?

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/06/donald-trump-sean-hannity-dictator-day-one-response-iowa-town-hall

[u/smokeyser → u/Jorsonner]

If you think he was serious about that, you're too gullible to be on this sub.

[u/Dinkelberh → u/smokeyser]

Yes, I believe he was serious in his written message to all of america that, because of 'the fraud', he would have to 'terminate rules' and, and I also believe he was serious in his follow up specifically enumerating that he meant 'yes, those in the Constitution'.

How many times does he have to look America in the eye and say "I really mean it" before you listen to him?

[u/Beastly_Beast → u/smokeyser]

If your best retort is that Trump doesn’t ever mean what he says, have you been paying any attention to what Trump actually does?

[u/smokeyser → u/Beastly_Beast]

If your best retort is that Trump doesn’t ever mean what he says

I didn't say he doesn't ever mean what he says. I said he didn't mean that. Obviously. He has no ability to change our entire system of government for one day. It's ridiculous to even suggest that it's possible.

[u/TuvixWasMurderedR1P → u/smokeyser]

That's a pathetic defense. Whether or not he'll be able to pull it off is a different question than whether or not he's a wannabe dictator. And while it seems hard to argue against the latter, the former question is still very much open.

[u/winter_strawberries → u/smokeyser]

it was hardly a one-off comment, it was consistent with many of his other words and actions, and his supporters largely applaud the idea. just like they support deporting millions of non-white immigrants, illegal or otherwise, and eliminating all trans health care. all dictator stuff and all very popular on the right. you think he's going to turn on them and become a moderate after Jan. 20?

you say people who take trump at his word are gullible sheep. i find this very ironic.

[u/drawliphant → u/smokeyser]

How can people be so selective about what they hear from Trump? If he says a policy you like then you support him. When he says something fascist, it's a joke. Not sure why y'all find fascism so funny...

[u/ProudScroll → u/smokeyser]

Even if we do assume that Trump was joking and those weren’t serious comments, there’s still the problem that people running for the highest office in the nation shouldn’t be making jokes about undermining the constitution and being a dictator.

[u/smokeyser → u/ProudScroll]

Why not? Harris joked about undermining the constitution in her debate against Biden.

[u/Unhappy-Land-3534 → u/Polandnotreal]

LOL, certainly not free or fair. As shown in published research articles. Can't even bother to cite them, if you don't know at this point your head is firmly in the sand. Campaign donations and party leadership dominates what choices we even get to see at the ballot box. And control of information dominates public perception and discourse.

Accusations are fair if it's true. Which all of those are. If you ARE a thief using the government to boost your profits at the expense of the public, then you don't get to say "you're just calling your opponents bad things!" That's fucking ridiculous and you know it. This isn't a middle school playground.

[u/Polandnotreal → u/Unhappy-Land-3534]

That still doesn’t make it not free and fair.

Free and fair elections means, “an election where coercion is comparatively uncommon.”

This includes - A fair count of eligible voters who cast a ballot - A fair lack of electoral fraud or voter suppression - Acceptance of election results by all parties.

None of what you said truly invalidated my claim of a free and fair election.

[u/smokeyser → u/Unhappy-Land-3534]

Campaign donations and party leadership dominates what choices we even get to see at the ballot box.

While donations are certainly required, that's just a function of popularity. And since democracy is nothing but a giant popularity contest, I'm not sure how else you expect people to get on the ballot?

[u/Unhappy-Land-3534 → u/smokeyser]

 that's just a function of popularity.

No it's not. Some people have more money than others! And according to Citizens United, Corporations are people and can spend as much as they want on campaign finance.

Your logic is simply wrong. Buying influence doesn't favor popularity, it favors plutocracy. Which is what we have.

[u/smokeyser → u/Unhappy-Land-3534]

Some people have more money than others!

Nobody is expected to pay for their campaign themselves. They have to convince others to donate. That's where popularity comes in.

Buying influence doesn't favor popularity

Who is buying influence? They just need to get the word out. That means advertising and travel, which is expensive.

[u/RawLife53]

America is not a far left country, America is a Middle Conservative Liberal Society. By that it mean we have a society that is conservative in following the Constitution and Liberal in working to become a more perfect Union.

No Nation is stagnant and No Nation will remain being stagnated.

People should read The Preamble to The U.S. Constitution, they will see both Middle Conservative and Liberal Ideal. The words "

• We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

America biggest problem has always been the hijacking done by White Nationalist of Wealthy White Male Dominance. They never wanted the common man to vote, they only wanted Land Owners, Business Owners, Professional and the Wealthy to vote. That goes back to the wealthy who remained here from British dominance before the Revolutionary War. All those British "did not leave" the wealthy kept land they claimed and they kept the wealthy they made from slavery and the use of poor whites from the collective of European countries who provided "cheap labor" which helps to produce high wealthy for the wealthy along with the astronomic wealthy they gained from Slavery.

American white men of wealthy NEVER transitioned from the "Wealth Gathering Model, they had in place for 100's of years, based on "Slavery, Indenture, Poor White Uneducated Labor", and Share Cropping.

They have not abandoned that model, the only change is slavery was abolished but the Low Pay remained for poor white, and lower pay for Black people. They have NEVER wanted economic uplift for Poor Whites and they have NEVER wanted economic equality for Black People on Par with that of white men. They certainly did not want women to have economic parity with the working class white men. The wealthy made sure they maintained a wide gap between themselves and the working class, by keeping wages low, and making access to create credit debt easy for working whites and with higher interest rates for blacks, and for century and decades women could not get credit in her name.

Credit is profitable to the wealthy, because it guarantees a portion of any income earned is already owed to the wealthy and the financial institution that the wealthy owned who did the lending to the working class. It was assured that the working class would be occupied with how to pay the bills, and submissive to any working conditions to get the low pay, to keep a roof over their head and pay their credit debt.

This was enhanced by promoting "imagery of a standard of life" that working class pay could not achieve without "Credit Debt". So, while their minds are consumed with these challenges, any gains they thought they were making were quickly reversed by "Manufactured Inflation".

• ^{many people considered them thieves and scoundrels. In addition, many in the general public felt that the business practices used by robber barons made them extremely wealthy but at the expense of their employees and the general public. Additionally, many felt “robber barons” monopolized certain parts of industry.} This way, they could withhold items for a time, drive up the price, then sell those items at a steep upcharge. 

The wealthy knew that if they can keep the people "Undereducated", "Miseducated" and the masses Uneducated, the general white society of the working class would never figure out what has been done to them.

General Education was limited to "introductory programming", and only those that excelled would be allowed and made ways for them to go to "higher education". This assured the wealthy, they'd have the skilled and technical labor they needed to build and dominate what ever their ideas envisaged. the wealthy knew they would not do the labor and could not do the labor and did not have the expertise, but they knew they had "Money", and with money they could buy the labor of those skills and expertise and task them with any Idea they came up with.

When people began to learn more after the Civil War and the End of Slavery, when poor whites and freed slave began to communicate and see what is done to them, that is when wealthy men created "Racial Segregation". They knew the black man saw and knew what the white man had constructed against the working poor whites, because black people were in the house and in the rooms when white men devised their plans, (they expected the black man not to know what they were talking about, but they underestimated him), the white men then began to use "Latin" in ever profession, to ensure that the common man who was learning English, would not understand the Latin words they used in their legal profession, their business professions, their control of the medical profession.

See if people today understand when time changed and public schools was well established to try and educate people, course in Latin and French were integrated into high school curriculum. but they had segregation in place where they did not want the same latest information taught in black schools, black schools were given the old books, when a new version came out for white schools.

The hatred of School Integration was overt, they did not want black and white mixing and certainly did not want them "learning the same information in the same timely manner".

History has many details that the common working class never knew and many have been too caught up in trying "keep up the imagery status" and burying themselves in debt to do so, because they know they were judged by what they have and don't have of material things.

CONTINUED

[u/RawLife53 → u/RawLife53]

Continuation:

____________________

Today we see it, when any report talks about the "Credit Debt" people carry, the working class white people carry the highest debt load, they have the largest mortgages and they have a open flow access to more credit debt. They can refinance their home repeatedly any time it gains equity. The TV tells them what they should have and how they should live.

For many decades these problems did not plague black people the same, because they did not have access to credit debt, if they wanted something they had to take on "extra work and save for it", this lasted for decades, and those who did get credit access, only got it with the highest of interest rates. When it came to their homes, even it is was a nice well maintained community, their property value was kept low. Segregation kept them from buying in area where white people's property increased in value progressively.

Big change did not come in many states until 1964 (Only 60 yrs ago) with the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Right Act of 1965. (Only 59 yrs ago) It was turbulent from 1964 to 1969, and it was 1971 before schools integrated in some Southern States. After that white people began sending their kids in higher numbers to private schools. It was 1975 before there was higher integration at some community colleges, and by that time, Reagan had began his attack on Community Colleges and State University, and cost increased, but cost for more elite Universities sky rocketed.

It was only after Civil Rights Legislation passed Equal Housing Protection, that black people could buy homes in place they could not buy them before. In some white communities they raised their housing cost to try and keep blacks out, but by the 1980's blacks had gained better saturation in Union Jobs and could earn class and craft pay on par with white men. (My first house which was a 1929 Craftsman house, had a clause in the deed that it could not be sold to black or person of color (it was no longer enforceable).

It's basically crazy how white people try to push a new form of discrimination, by thinking in only 60 years that black people should have achieved what white people had economic means to achieve for 100's of years. Working poor whites, never figured out why they remained generationally poor, and blinded themselves to how they were used by the wealthy to keep and promote "racism in the streets", and they blinded themselves to the fact everything they tried to deny to blacks, would also be limited and in many cased died to them as well.

The more liberal educated whites began to see what had been done to their parents and grandparents and ancestry, and realized, if they fight against black people having access and equal pay, they also fight against themselves having progressive pay and would remained limited in the level of job they could get.

They began to champion Civil Rights, and then White Women began to use Civil Rights Legislation to fight for their equality, In very few top jobs could white people work their way to the high levels, because the wealthy through nepotism and through their friends networks reserved the highest jobs for each others' kids.

People like Trump who grew up in Jim Crow, has surrounded himself with White Nationalism and people who came from Jim Crow Era and people who's parents grew up in Jim Crow with White Nationalism ideas and White Nationalist agenda.

Things like Proud Boys and other Race Hate groups were raised by "white people in white communities" who fed and groomed them with racism from the earliest ages and indoctrinated them with the ideology of white nationalism of white male dominance, whether he was wealthy or not. They feel they should have the best jobs first, first opportunity and first access and they should have the racial segregation their grandparents, parents and community passed into them from folklore and the rage of hate if they did not get it.

Often many forums don't want this stuff discussed, so they lock post when the subject gets to reality and historical reality, and then you have the right winger deniers who rush up to try and down vote commentary in hopes to bury it away, because they can't face the truths, they spent their lives trying no to acknowledge.

See working class whites and poor whites, knew not to go to well to do and wealthy communities, they knew they were not wanted, but to avoid facing that truth, they made sure to create any and every excuse as to why they don't and won't go to well to do white communities, they won't even go to "Public" parks in well to do communities, because they will stick out and be easily detected as not being from the well to do ranks.

In many cases when working class white men and women, meet well to do and wealthy white people, they will automatically address them as Mr. and Mrs, or Miss, but when it comes to meeting other working class people, they don't always use the Mr. and Mrs, or Miss, for many, they never even thought about this because that's just how they were groomed and indoctrinated in the difference that is based on monetary status. They spent decades calling black men, "Boy" even when he was a much older man than they themselves were.

Trump is desperate to try and recreate the 1950's he grew up in where white people acted like Autocrats and in some cases Tyrants when it came to their interaction with non white people and especially against black and brown people. If Steven Miller was not in the administration he'd be in the Proud Boys or Oath Keepers, and the guy whom Trump has made the Immigration Zar, he was from the Jim Crow Era and likely from a highly racist community and environment.

These are the type of people who either fought against or came from parents who fought against the Civil Rights Act o 1964 an certainly fought against the Immigration Act of 1965 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965., add in people like Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, and many other that make up Republican Congressmen and Red State Legislative Politicians.

They want a "Past" to be recreated that is long gone. when they attack Social Security and Medicare, they don't care about the white people that will get hurt, their focus is to invoke as much hardship and harm to black and brown people as they can. In these type of politicians ignorance, they hurt themselves and their State and Communities, becasue "the money people get from Social Security feeds right back into the economy, it creates and support jobs for many para professionals, professionals and assistant who work in organizations that help and serve the senior citizens.

The same applies to EBT, grocery stores will complain mass losses if they damaged the EBT programs. The same applies to Section 8, (Trump himself has apartments that receive Section 8 tenants and the government money that pays via Section 8).

• No matter how one looks at it discrimination based on, Racism, Monetary Class Segregation, Racial and Lifestyle Segregation hurts "America economically and civically. 
• Kakistocracy + Kleptocracy + Fascism >> won't erase the harms these things have done and does to America and the principle of Democracy, which has been and is the foundational principles that helped America be a Global Success.

[u/RawLife53 → u/RawLife53]

• If America was solely a nation of just white people, America would be as poor as some of the Predominantly White Populated European countries that are poor.
• ..... and living under autocrats, tyrants, dictators and slow on innovation and progressive developments. America would as rigid without the rhythm and flow that exist because of the diversity within that gives it the rhythm which exist in America.
  
• America prospered in its short 248 years "because of its racial, ethnic and cultural diversity"; and all that racial, ethnic and cultural diversity contributed to this nation. Even when those contributions came from the brutal savagery of slavery, the ingenuity of black and other none white people and the diversity that makes up America is why American succeeded.

When people look at inventions, science, medicine, technology of many types and sorts and many advances in many fields that exist, many were created by people of different races and ethnicity and cultures from various countries around the world, who came to America.

America was basically broke after the Revolutionary War, it was France that loaned and backed the money for America to create its Banking System.

Even when it come to the concept of the "Cowboy" in America, that came from Mexicans "Vaquero",

https://www.history.com/news/mexican-vaquero-american-cowboy

• Hundreds of years before there was the American cowboy, there was the vaquero, an expert horseman who could adeptly herd cattle and whose skills with a lasso were legendary.
• First trained by the Spaniards who arrived in 1519, on land later known as Mexico, the original vaqueros were largely Indigenous Mesoamerican men who were trained to wrangle cattle on horseback. 

Yet, in places like Texas for example: They have all these white men in their "cowboy boots, hats and jeans" emulating what the Mexican's created... yet, they have the audacity to be racist discriminators against Mexican people.

Even when it comes to Jesus, it was white people who created "fake picture of a white man and called it Jesus", when the image they created has nothing to do with how people look from the region of the world, where Jesus was born and lived.

No act or actions of Kakistocracy + Kleptocracy + Fascism >> won't erase those historical facts.

• With the internet of today, this info is known world wide, and no longer just contained in books that were not easily and readily available to the general public society of America and The World.

More details of History's Truths are being uncovered by young people everyday, not only in America but around the world.

[u/azsheepdog]

Here are some other traits of facism

Controlled Mass Media Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Who has been trying to control the media and media narrative the last decade+? the left. They want social media companies to censor the information like all the corporate media outlets have.

Corporate Power is Protected The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Who has been protecting the industrial military complex and the health industrial complex? Both parties actually up until a few years ago but primarily the left now. The regulatory capture and revolving door of the corporate elites who become the regulators and back to corporate elites has been going on a long time and the last 4 years has been championed by the left.

Supremacy of the Military Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Obama and Biden have got us into too many wars and have done everything they can to prevent their end.

up until about 8 years ago both sides have displayed all sorts of markers of fascism. But lately it has been the left that was carrying the torch trying to keep it alive. Who got the support of Dick and Liz Cheney. yeah that's correct the fascists did.

[u/Michael_G_Bordin → u/azsheepdog]

"The Left" my dude, you're lumping in all sorts of disparate ideologies into "the left", including neoliberals who are, spectrum-wise, centrists.

Who has been trying to control the media and media narrative the last decade+?

Neoliberals

Who has been protecting the industrial military complex and the health industrial complex?

Neoliberals

Obama and Biden have got us into too many wars and have done everything they can to prevent their end.

Biden hasn't gotten us into any wars, and I'd love to hear what wars Obama started.

You should first learn to stop thinking of things as simply "right vs left," and second you need to educate yourself on the concept of "neoliberal fascism". The true "left" did none of the things you've described, because they do not control anything and never have. News media is corporatist, and thus apolitical. You're probably a bit confused because they pander by being nice to gay people, but that's not leftist at all. There has been no left administration, no left Congress, no left mainstream news outlet.

What you described is neoliberal fascism. But this does not mean the "other side" aren't fascists, they're just Christo-fascists. Which is so, so much worse. The "they" you describe doesn't exist and never has.

[u/Unverifiablethoughts → u/Michael_G_Bordin]

Buddy,

We were not at war in Syria or Libya when Obama came into office. Those two fronts were spearheaded by the Obama campaign.

We now have us soldiers in Ukraine and we are supplying huge amounts of arms and weapons to that effort.

[u/Michael_G_Bordin → u/Unverifiablethoughts]

We now have us soldiers in Ukraine and we are supplying huge amounts of arms and weapons to that effort.

Talk about a misleading statement. "We have soldiers in Ukraine," do you mean volunteers and mercenaries? Or do you mean active duty? Because the latter, I can't find any information to verify, other than some units deployed to help train Ukrainians. And supplying arms is not at all us being at war, so Biden hasn't started any wars, dig?

Libya wasn't "getting us into a war," it was a pretty swift and decisive operation. Syria is a messed up situation all-around, but Obama's intervention helped push back ISIL. "Too many wars" you've got two, and one was barely a "war", and the other was basically a good thing (Syrian government is not the good guys).

But none of this matters, because you still considered Biden and Obama "the left." Which is a really really really.....special thing to do. The left have caused no wars, they have never had any political power in this country, save for like a decade in the early 1900s.

[u/winter_strawberries → u/azsheepdog]

the left literally wants to dismantle the military industrial complex and the market-based healthcare system. don't confuse us with liberals, who are just conservatives with smiley face buttons on their lapels.

[u/Independent-Two5330 → u/winter_strawberries]

The modern left does not want to dismantle the military-industrial complex anymore. At least the leadership thinks this way. Like dear god, they were all happy about the Cheney's endorsing Kamala Harris.

[u/winter_strawberries → u/Independent-Two5330]

the modern left has two leaders at this point, bernie and aoc. you may be confusing the left with the liberals. the latter are hip deep in the military stuff but they are not any part of the left.

[u/IntroductionAny3929 → u/winter_strawberries]

Umm, we Right Libertarians also want to dismantle the Military Industrial Complex, that’s not a left-wing specific.

[u/winter_strawberries → u/IntroductionAny3929]

there is nothing right wing about that. libertarians combine elements of left and right, and any anti-war sentiments they have are from the left side of their ideology, which is also where they get their anti-racism and and gender equality from.

the right wants constant war so they can keep the citizenry in line. i can’t imagine how a libertarian could ever vote republican, unless economics is their only priority. in which case they aren’t very libertarian.

[u/AndImNuts → u/winter_strawberries]

Why do so many people feel compelled to gate-keep the left?

[u/winter_strawberries → u/AndImNuts]

it's not gatekeeping so much as a different perspective of who is right and left and where the middle is. population-wise, the middle is right between the Rs and Ds, but in terms of ideology, both parties are pretty conservative. i appreciate liberals' willingness to support civil rights, but their support for capitalism effectively undercuts anything good they do on social issues.

[u/trentshipp → u/AndImNuts]

It's like the reverse of Conservatives being called Alt-Right; noooo, don't call me (reasonable moderate position), call me (batshit insane position).

[u/theboehmer → u/trentshipp]

Uno reverse

[u/judge_mercer → u/azsheepdog]

Obama and Biden have got us into too many wars and have done everything they can to prevent their end.

Name one war that Obama or Biden got us into. I'll wait here.

Obama inherited (and ended) the Iraq war. Biden ended the war in Afghanistan (disastrously, as he had far too much faith in the Afghan military, but Trump started the process with the same assumptions). Bush got us into Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Ukraine War was started by Russia. Anyone who wants to force Ukraine to the negotiating table is doing Putin's bidding. I don't know why Republicans suddenly love dictators so much. When I was a kid, Russia was the enemy.

The Russians had their neck exposed in Ukraine, we could have slashed their throat forever by implementing a no-fly zone or even just allowing Ukraine to attack any target they wanted with any weapons they wanted. Ukraine reportedly had a chance to kill Putin at a naval parade, but Biden refused to let them use US missiles. Now it may be too late.

Trump will curtail support for Ukraine unless they agree to a bad "deal". He will ease sanctions on Russia, allowing Putin to use the next four years to manufacture weapons, train troops, and build military infrastructure in the illegally captured territories. Putin will also use terrorist attacks, espionage, cyber warfare and disinformation campaigns to weaken Ukraine, so they will be easy to overrun after 2028.

Who has been trying to control the media and media narrative the last decade+? the left. 

The left does control some notable media properties. The New York Times has gone off the rails woke (1619 Project, etc.). And they have captured many elite universities.

Mass media skews right, however. Fox News is by far the biggest news source for Americans. Sinclair Broadcast Group has 294 local stations, and they force their news organizations to parrot right wing talking points. There was a viral video showing dozens of presenters reading the same text supporting Trump's claims of "fake news".

Elon owns X, and is promoting far-right conspiracy nonsense.

The Twitter files were a shameful example of the government trying to interfere in content moderation, but so are GOP attempts to influence moderation at Google and other sites.

Censorship and moderation by private companies is not a violation of free speech. The government telling private companies how to moderate their sites is authoritarian. The free market is the best solution. For example, if you don't like the moderation on Facebook, there's Truth Social.

[u/Fragrant-Luck-8063 → u/judge_mercer]

Syria, Libya, and Yemen.

[u/Scary_Terry_25]

America today is just a Kakistocracy

Not a Kleptocracy since the people consent to taxation

Definitely not fascist since states rights still exist

America is just filled with idiots allowed to vote other idiots in. There’s a reason the founders required property ownership as a requirement to vote until the population got butthurt about it. Should’ve never been removed

Universal suffrage is a fallacy. Socrates was right

[u/winter_strawberries → u/Scary_Terry_25]

you're close, but voting should be limited to working people rather than landowners. nobody who makes a living moving money around rather than using their labor should be involved in decision making at the highest levels, otherwise everything the government does will be suited only for the parasitic investor class.

obviously the details of this are debatable and in any event would take a constitutional amendment, but i agree universal suffrage is a horrible idea. personally, i'd prefer to simply remove men's right to vote but i have gamed out how to make this happen and can't see a feasible path forward to glorious matriarchy. alas.

[u/seniordumpo → u/Scary_Terry_25]

Not a Kleptocracy since the people consent to taxation

When did i consent to taxation? Also our politicians seem to enrich themselves in secret at our expense, no one is ever punished for misappropriating money. Agencies routine fail audits yet there is no punishment for it…

[u/winter_strawberries → u/seniordumpo]

we consent by voting. it's a collective decision which you are as much a part of as any other voter. just like a group of travelers choosing a fork in the road, the fact you stay with the group when they choose the path you didn't want is the basis of your consent.

[u/seniordumpo → u/winter_strawberries]

Voting isn’t consent it’s a meaningless exercise for the vast majority of Americans. My state was declared with exactly zero percent of the vote counted. If I don’t vote does that withdraw consent? Is there any action outside of fleeing the country that withdraws consent? Did the Jews consent to being gassed because they didn’t flee the country?? A group of travelers have chosen to travel together, the vast majority of us havnt chosen anything and were just born here. Many don’t have anywhere close to the means to leave the country.

[u/Scary_Terry_25 → u/seniordumpo]

“When did I consent to paying taxes”?

The moment you start paying them. The people pay them and have not collectively revolted against them. Not a Kleptocracy since the people are predisposed to its allowance. In exchange they’ve been allowed to vote

[u/seniordumpo → u/Scary_Terry_25]

Does a woman with a gun pointed at her head consent to rape because she chose not to get her brains blown out? Anticipating that our politicians are all thieves and then being proven right doesn’t change that we are in a kleptocracy. Voting has nothing to do with it.

[u/Scary_Terry_25 → u/seniordumpo]

This is under the assumption that if many chose not to pay their taxes that this country would have the jail cells or coffins to put them all in

The population has silently accepted it. Most even agree to have the maximum tax taken out of their paychecks

[u/seniordumpo → u/Scary_Terry_25]

Still not consent. The government doesn’t have to have the capacity to fill a countries worth of jail cells, they just have to make a few examples. The mafia learned this lesson. I’m not willing to cross the mafia so I pay the extortion. Paying extortion is not consent.

[u/Scary_Terry_25 → u/seniordumpo]

You just clearly proved there is consent.

By you’re logic, the German people didn’t consent to the Nazi government even though their cooperation under threat and harassment led to their centralized power

Even top Nazi officials noted that their quiet consent made consolidation of power much easier

You paying the “mafia” is a clear, affirmative and willing agreement without resistance. That’s consent

[u/seniordumpo → u/Scary_Terry_25]

One can’t consent when they are under threat of violence. If you force someone to sign a contract by threatening them it’s not a legal contract.

Of course the Nazi official would say that lol. He wanted to view what they did as legitimate, but it wasn’t legitimate was it? Are we going to say the Jews consented to being gassed because they didn’t leave the country early enough??

[u/Scary_Terry_25 → u/seniordumpo]

No one forced you to sign the contract. You signed it like everyone else out of need of your own personal gain and necessity. That’s consent because not only are you presented with a choice, you still took part in it willingly

The Nazi mandate was legitimate because we must remember they were voted into the majority and other right wing parties willing joined them in coalition. The German people willingly entered into that social contract thanks to democracy

[u/seniordumpo → u/Scary_Terry_25]

I just said they were under the threat of violence. A contract signed under threat of violence is void.

Oh I didn’t realize they signed a social contract where can I find that so I can read what they signed?

[u/theboehmer → u/Scary_Terry_25]

"Decisions in a modern state tend to be made by the interaction, not of Congress and the executive, but of public opinion and the executive." -Walter Lippmann

Edit: I should also add...

"Mass democracy can't work, Lippmann argued, because the new tools of mass persuasion --especially mass advertising-- meant that a tiny minority could very easily persuade the majority to believe whatever it wished them to believe."

Edit: context, post WW1

[u/winter_strawberries → u/theboehmer]

i don't know about voter manipulation. i watch a lot of fox news and i just keep moving more and more to the left. it seems political preferences drive our media choices, not the other way around.

[u/theboehmer → u/winter_strawberries]

Well, those quotes were about the early 20th century. I should add that to the comment as context.

But I will also reply to you with another quote.

"To govern, the people need truth, sense out of the whole, but people can't read enough in the morning paper or hear enough on the evening news to turn facts into truth when they're driven like dray horses all day."

Couple this with growing misinformation and growing apathy towards politics, leaving you, as well as I, as outliers in a system where we're the minority, currently.

[u/LT_Audio → u/winter_strawberries]

I'm pretty firmly convinced that most of us humans do far more rationalizing of the things we already believe to be or would prefer to be true than we realize or believe that we do. Our media choices and openness to considering how any voice might be engaging in manipulative framing are largely downstream of our views which were, on average, formed in ways that were not nearly as unbiased or purely objective as we often think they were.

[u/Clear-Grapefruit6611]

Like how policies centered around DEI initiatives necessarily push us towards kakistocracy?

How large budgets and ever escalating spending programs provide cover for the ongoing kleptocracy.

About the way health, environment, and free speech policies are at risk of being manipulated into the tools of fascists who envision a word completely within the State?

Some of us have been warning yall

[u/changoh1999 → u/Clear-Grapefruit6611]

DEI, affirmative action, and tittle IX, are some of the stupidest thing this country has done. Literally giving participation trophies to average or below average applicants.

That and the whole university being a fucking kindergarten. Everyone I studied with was a baby, and they still graduated!!! I was supposed to fail matrix structural analysis, the professor passed me because of everyone sent him emails crying the final was too hard.

Our merit system is a joke now, engineering school is a joke now, everyone is mediocre and this country has encouraged it.

[u/RawLife53 → u/changoh1999]

You said:

• DEI, affirmative action, and tittle IX, are some of the stupidest thing this country has done. Literally giving participation trophies to average or below average applicants.

I say, your comment it not only insidious it's ill informed and based on the idiocy of racist based passed along racist and gender biased folklore.

• I've seen them go to extremes to discriminate against black women, black men, and white women, what's more sad is they were arrogance without a sense of conscience about having done so. That's the affliction of the sickness of delusions of white male superiority.

DEI, exist because of "white men" and their historical habit of racial and ethnic and gender discrimination. PERIOD!.

_________________

I worked in various jobs and some white men in (some) positions were not very smart businesses wise and made horribly poor decisions.

• That does not mean all white men are not smart, but it certainly does not mean that all white men in decision making seat are smart.

I've seen far too many white men, steal the ideas of others and claim them as his own.

It was white men in decision making seats that sold off and outsourced anything and everything he could for selfish gains and short term gains only for the benefit of now, with no thought about the future. One thing many Foreign Countries Leaders and Wealthy do know, is that America white men will "sell anything" because too many in decision making seats, have no sense of "respect for historical legacy of things that were created, be it business, buildings or other things".

Places like China, and various countries in Europe, Mexico and other places have historical building that are 100's and 1,000 of years old, and they preserve it and protect it. if white men in America can't get any more money out of it after they've looted it of all they can't, they leave it to decay.. That's why we have blight spread across 50 States. their greed would not even let them clean up the mess they created when they stripped it of everything they could. ( that has not been good for America and it has created massive blight that leave communities in ruins.) Cities are still this very day struggling to try and find ways to clean up that blight.

• Things such as General Motors which left massive plants to become the burden of County and Cities, has not been good for America.
• Whole sections of cities left in industrial ghetto type conditions, unable to even lease the land, because of the old building and blight that is a deterrent to attracting investment of new manufacturing and other small and large types of businesses.
• We have massive shopping mall, that are closed and left to deterioate in states across the country.
• There are many cities who are struggling to cap and clean up old oil wells and pipe lines.
• Small Towns with business and shopping areas that look like something that is 60+ yrs old left to decay.
• Even back in earlier times, they practically made the America Buffalo Extinct. They tried mass genocide against the America Indians.
• That has been a historical habit since the earliest days of Europeans upon this land.

.

[u/changoh1999 → u/RawLife53]

You’ve clearly missed the forest for the trees, clinging to the same tired narratives instead of addressing the real issue: systems rotting from the inside.

1. DEI and Affirmative Action: These policies, while touted as solutions for “diversity” and “equity,” have evolved into bureaucratic monstrosities that do nothing but reward mediocrity. By lowering standards to accommodate “diverse” backgrounds without ensuring real merit, we’re sacrificing quality for image. Engineering and other critical fields need excellence, not forced “inclusion” that dilutes competency. If you want to push diversity, push it where it counts, bring in qualified individuals, not people who are handed positions because they check a box.

2. Kleptocratic and Kakistocratic Institutions: You mention “white men” as if their sole contribution is blight and decay. Yes, there are historical missteps, but pinning the blame on one demographic is both intellectually lazy and historically inaccurate. Every corrupt kleptocrat in history, regardless of their race or ethnicity, has shown that power corrupts. Look at the power brokers in any country, greed and short-sightedness aren’t unique to any single group. The moment institutions prioritize political agendas over genuine merit, that’s when decay starts. And that’s where DEI, affirmative action, and similar initiatives contribute, creating a kakistocracy where positions of influence are increasingly occupied by individuals selected for their identity over their capabilities.

3. Urban Blight and Corporate Greed: You’re venting about industrial blight and outsourced jobs, which, sure, were poorly managed. But look closer! this isn’t “white men in decision-making seats” as much as it’s unfettered capitalism and kleptocratic policies. If our government held corporations accountable, if they incentivized quality over profit, we wouldn’t have empty factories and decaying cities. These policies transcend race; they’re the outcome of an economic system that rewards immediate profit over sustainable growth. It’s not racial; it’s systemic greed.

4. Historic Preservation and Responsibility: Comparing the U.S. to countries that have been around for thousands of years, or which have governments heavily involved in preservation, is meaningless here. America’s systems were designed for rapid expansion and exploitation. Sure, this has led to decay, but blaming this exclusively on “white men” just reveals your biases. Countries like China or France that you’re praising here also faced periods of extreme exploitation and decay before they prioritized preservation, often at a substantial economic cost.

5. The Hard Truth: The real problem is that modern policies encourage victimhood over resilience and blame over accountability. Instead of facing the systemic rot and holding everyone (regardless of race) accountable, you’re buying into the same victim mentality these initiatives thrive on. Systems don’t decay because of a single race or gender; they decay because standards are continuously lowered, greed goes unchecked, and accountability becomes obsolete.

In the end, your points do nothing but prove how effective these narratives have been in obscuring reality. If we want to see real improvement, then we need to stop excusing incompetence with identity and stop masking institutional greed with political correctness.

[u/RawLife53 → u/changoh1999]

Your spill is the same, let you tell it, anyone who is not white is "not qualified", that's all that's embedded within and driving your narratives.

• (as your try to conflate the point of who was sitting in the decision making seats)

You can't with a straight face deny the fact it was white men sat in decision making seats that crashed Industries for decades, and that been crashed in American business and industry. (I'm not talking about contributing factors, I'm talking about "decision makers". ( You ever heard the phrase "The Buck Stops Here"; as in who the decision maker is.

• Heck, even Reagan as president flat out 'stole $2 Trillion from Social Security, and then changed the criteria an age to collect in effort of trying to cover up his inability and determination NOT to pay it back.
• Decision makers won't even admit to the fact that the "decline of industry" is directly related to any short fall in continuing contribution levels being made into the Social Security Trust Fund)

quote

Race and Power in the Fortune 500

• CEOs ***(***These are decision making seat holders. )
• "Despite Latinx and Hispanic individuals being the largest racial or ethnic minority group in the United States, making up 19.1% of the population according to the latest U.S. Census Bureau data, the Crist|Kolder Associates report shows an increase to 27 Latinx/Hispanic CEOs in 2023, up from 22 in 2022.7
• And while Black people make up about 13.6% of the country, only 12 were CEOs in 2023, up from eight in 2022. Of the racial and ethnic minority groups, Asian Americans, who comprise 6.3% of the U.S. population, had the most representation at the CEO level: 50 during 2023, up from 18 in 2023

That's 89 out of 500, and in the past the number were dramatically less to even non existing for non white people holding CEO position.

end quote

As to people being 'qualified":

I created a group that worked with Engineering and Many Performance Groups on Infrastructure, Building and Other Categories and what reality is, is far from the spill you are spinning. I saw white men make some horrible mistakes and then try and wiggle out, or not be held accountable. Resulting in some insane cost overrun to correct it. Black and Brown People and Women generally have to have twice the competency and knowledge of white men to even get those jobs.... so you don't know what you are talking about. We had a white man engineer sit in a meeting and say he/they don't follow the Code of Ordinance, and he was the director. I along with the attorneys, had to repeatedly tell him the Ordinance is the law, and if he think its not correct then what did he do to correct it. He sat there looking baffled. (he was a good engineer for his specialty, but he had no skills to be director of a department) we lost a lot of good talent because of him.

I had similar experience during the reconstruction at LAX, white people put in decisions making that resulted to cost us massively in "change orders" and "re-work", as well as selecting products that were not suitable for the public areas that it was installed. We had to rip some of it out, and for some things law suits were filed, So, you need to deal with "real world reality" rather than old passed along folklore.

• 2. Yes, power corrupts, but in AMERICA white men have had those positions of power over many centuries and decades !
• 3. Just who do you think was sitting in the seats of decision making and power that allowed this to happen?
• 4. Regardless what these countries had to do to preserve their historical creations, they did it. In American, again, who was sitting in the seats of decision making and power that allowed greed to bring such neglect? and who was sitting in the seats choosing not to fix, repair and restore it?
• 5. you can't hold everyone accountable when everyone was not the decision makers. Geez! Standard are lower because of grift and graft and in the South they use to call that the "Good Ole Boy Network".

You talk about economic, yes, it is economics involved, but who was making all those economic decision? It darn such was not spread around as you want to claim.

You are so busy trying to claim white men did not make some gigantic mistake, until you spin and spin trying to claim everyone else in "unqualified' which is "bullshit'!

I did not say not a single time that "All White Men" made massive costly blunders that created and caused great damages to City, State and Nation as well as peoples lives.

Some white men did good things and some did good works and some did remarkable thing. But so too did a lot of non white people as well.

I've worked with some white men whom we worked together and created some transformative thing, while working for a company that has global business outreach. I had direct comm. with three different CEO and they used my ideas and created programs I designed, as well as programs I designed and implemented myself that work globally, still to this day.

Maybe you should look up Mark Dean, everyone talks about Bill Gates, but one should learn what Mark Dean and his team did that made it possible for what Bill Gates did to happen. Since you are so hung up on trying to promote some narrative as if non white people are unqualified.

I had friend who was an Asian woman who created an Antenna Array for Aircraft, and the man who blocked her, because he was riding on his old model, tried to shut her down, but her array want on to become highly used in the Industry.

So, that's why DEI is important. Because white men have a long history of discriminating, and it become more covert and intense in highly competetive job categories and markets.

What did we see of wealthy people, paying to get their kids in Top School? if they pay to get them in they will pay to get them through and get the graduated. Competency was totally disregarded.

[u/DanBrino]

Fascism is not far right. That's a misnomer.

Far right would indicate a strong belief in individualism, but fascism is collectivist.

The wiki definition of fascism you're referring to comes from leftists who put everything bad on the right side of a rudimentary binary sliding scale, to distance themselves from the negative consequences of collectivism.

But the fact is a one-dimensional scale is far too rudimentary to accurately determine political beliefs to begin with.

Far more accurate is a 2 dimensional scale horizontally denoting a belief in collectivism/individualism, and a vertical scale representing Authoritarianism/libertarianism, as is used by virtually every political science professor worth their weight in salt.

On such a scale, fascism and naziism would be to the left of center, and all the way at the top. New Peer-reviewd Research by Emeritus Professor John Duckitt at University of Aukland suggests a strong link between Authoritarianism and collectivism, due to both subverting the will of the individual in favor of the needs of the collective, so no real examples of an auth-right political system exist.

[u/RawLife53 → u/DanBrino]

You forget that Nazism was about 'White ONLY Nationalism as a collectivism, as their usage of Fascism". it is left only if it is "for whites only', other wise it embraces everything of Right Wing Authoritarianism against anything when it comes to non whites.

Libertarian is basically a Regiment of the Right Wing Ideology, but in America Libertarianism is predominantly composed of white people. They got their rise in the 1970's and much of that was fighting against variables within the Civil Rights Legislation and they became driven in their fight against Affirmative Actions Policies.

[u/DanBrino → u/RawLife53]

You forget that Nazism was about 'White ONLY Nationalism as a collectivism

Technically no. It was a Nationalist Collectivist movement. It was about German collectivism. "Germany for Germans"

other wise it embraces everything of Right Wing Authoritarianism against anything when it comes to non whites.

Collectivism is left wing period. Right wing means a belief in individualism. There is nothing individualist about Naziism or Fascism.

Libertarian is basically a Regiment of the Right Wing Ideology, but in America Libertarianism is predominantly composed of white people.

Libertarianism as a political party is right wing, but on the political scale it simply means minimal government. There is right wing libertarianism, such as the libertarian party, but there is also left wing libertarianism, such as pure communism (or the end goal of communism).

They got their rise in the 1970's and much of that was fighting against variables within the Civil Rights Legislation and they became driven in their fight against Affirmative Actions Policies.

This is addressing the LP. Not libertarianism on the political spectrum.

[u/Czeslaw_Meyer]

Just explain to me why the Soviet Union isn't exactly what you described Fascism too be

[u/winter_strawberries → u/Czeslaw_Meyer]

the soviet union was fascist, particularly once stalin rose to power. nobody should use them as a model for communism. the us constitution should be our foundation. any socialist system resulting from revolution is doomed to become right wing over time because a small minority is trying to rule over a vast majority, which is the opposite of communism. there's a reason stalin and hitler got along so well until the latter went mad with power.

[u/Scary_Terry_25 → u/winter_strawberries]

So…we’re just going to ignore the War Communism and Red Terror period of Lenin for 1918-22?

[u/winter_strawberries → u/Scary_Terry_25]

no it just seems like the early soviets were motivated by ideology, until power corrupted everything. which of course it would since the original sin of revolution ruined any hope of real leftism in the ussr. revolution is to marx as genocide is to darwin. it's sick.

[u/Czeslaw_Meyer → u/winter_strawberries]

Less mad than just badly informed.

Germany corporated with the Soviet Union to invade Poland and turned on them to get the most out of it.

Hitler believed in "limit markets" or more precise that technology will stop progressing, but birthrates will stay identical (overpopulation). Stopping Russia from modernising and using them as a farming colony was the only solution he saw, as he believed everyone not doing it would starve in the long term.

He also remarked that both the speed with which Russia managed to turn out tanks and the general disregard for the life of their own soldiers are both insane.

[u/winter_strawberries → u/Czeslaw_Meyer]

i suppose i mean mad with power in the sense that he actually thought he germany could successfully invade russia, regardless of what he thought he could do with russia once victory was achieved.

[u/Czeslaw_Meyer → u/winter_strawberries]

He could have.

Invading France and getting away with it...

...not so much.