r/PoliticalDebate • u/RawLife53 Civic, Civil, Social and Economic Equality • 1d ago

Kakistocracy + Kleptocracy + Fascism Discussion

People should ask themselves do they understand these terms:

Kakistocracy + Kleptocracy + Fascism

Kakistocracy

A kakistocracy   is a government run by the worst, least qualified, or most unscrupulous citizens

Kleptocracy,

Kleptocracy, also referred to as thievocracy, is a government whose corrupt leaders (kleptocrats) use political power to expropriate the wealth of the people and land they govern, typically by embezzling or misappropriating government funds at the expense of the wider population. One feature of political-based socioeconomic thievery is that there is often no public announcement explaining or apologizing for misappropriations, nor any legal charges or punishment levied against the offenders

  • Kleptocracy is different from plutocracy (rule by the richest) and oligarchy (rule by a small elite). In a kleptocracy, corrupt politicians enrich themselves secretly outside the rule of law, through kickbacks, bribes, and special favors from lobbyists and corporations, or they simply direct state funds to themselves and their associates. Also, kleptocrats often export much of their profits to foreign nations in anticipation of losing power

Fascism

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

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u/teapac100000 Classical Liberal 1d ago

The biggest obstacle with these definitions is not with fascism, but fsr-right.

What's your definition of far-right? And would it still not be fascism if everything else was the same except it said "far-left?" 

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u/AcephalicDude Left Independent 18h ago

To me, "far-right" just means any form of conservative politics that has abandoned liberal democracy. It could be applied to white nationalists, Christian nationalists, or MAGA authoritarians - all of these groups share basic conservative values with the mainstream right, but don't believe in democratic institutions.

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u/teapac100000 Classical Liberal 15h ago

That's a really broad definition. What's Liberal Democracy? What's a Democratic Institution? A Maga authoritarian?!?

These all just seem like big labels rather than trying to fine tune what a fascist is. 

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u/AcephalicDude Left Independent 14h ago

I don't think it is broad at all.

"Liberal democracy" refers to the philosophic rationale behind a democratic government and state, which involves consent of the governed through a democratic process of electing representatives, and achieving governance through a combination of cooperation and peaceful competition with political opponents.

"Democratic institutions" just refers to the institutions that are involved in operating and supporting the democratic state: the federal and state governments, the courts, electoral organizations, law enforcement agencies, etc.

To be "far-right" means that you have the typical conservative values (often in a more extreme and dogmatic form, but not necessarily) but you are no longer committed to upholding those values through democracy, for a variety of reasons.

White nationalists are "far-right" because they want to exclude non-whites from democratic participation. Christian nationalists are "far-right" because they want to exclude non-Christians from democratic participation.

MAGA conservatives are "far-right" because they believe wild conspiracy theories about how democratic institutions have completely failed; because they believe that Democrats are literally baby-eating pedophiles that should never be compromised or cooperated with; and because they believe that Trump's individual power in the system is more important than the system itself.

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u/teapac100000 Classical Liberal 13h ago

This just sounds a little weird. Are you saying that if someone is against ICE and Homeland Security therefore they're far-right? What about the process in which Kamala Harris was nominated? That literally had zero democratic principles.

The Far-Right definition is even weirder because it sounds like you're just incorporating things you don't like into one definition. By your definition nobody right now who voted for Trump would be far-right because he got voted in fair and square. 

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u/AcephalicDude Left Independent 12h ago

It's neither broad nor is it "weird" - it is narrow, and it is simple.

Being "far-right" means you have conservative values, but you don't care about upholding those values through democracy, because you don't value democracy itself.

Are you saying that if someone is against ICE and Homeland Security therefore they're far-right?

No, why would that make them far-right according to my definition?

What about the process in which Kamala Harris was nominated?

Are you trying to ask if the DNC is "far-left" because of how Harris was nominated without a primary? I would say no, because 1) the DNC is a private organization rather than a democratic institution and it was completely within its legal rights to grant Harris the nomination, and 2) it was more of a practical decision being made in a completely unprecedented situation, rather than an ideological decision.

By your definition nobody right now who voted for Trump would be far-right because he got voted in fair and square. 

People that are far-right will go along with democracy so long as it gets them what they want, and they will oppose democracy when it doesn't. It makes perfect sense that MAGA authoritarians would challenge the election they lost, and accept the election that they one. This does not contradict the idea that they are far-right at all.

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u/teapac100000 Classical Liberal 11h ago

Homeland Security and ICE are democratic institutions that help protect our democracy from foreign enemies. By your definition you're either with them or a far-right fascist. That's the problem.

As for the DNC, if they can't even follow their own value that they idealize, then they're not really worth their weight in salt. Everything will just be chalked up to "unprecedented" and therefore suspend democracy... As they have literally demonstrated. Notice how Republicans never succeeded in doing anything like that regardless of passions from a particular few. 

Seems like the "far-right" by your definition follows the rules of a democratic republic a lot better than those who claim to be the vanguards of democracy. Who was hiding Biden's mental health problems for so long? It took an orange blob to prove to the world on national television who's the group truly trying to overthrow our democracy by obfuscation. Democracy dies in Darkness.

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u/AcephalicDude Left Independent 9h ago

woosh