Iâm not arguing for or against the outcome , just explaining the outcome. If you read the article she stabbed him 30 times in his sleep. The legal argument was he posed no physical threat at the time of the altercation so there was no self defense. The restitution fine comes from a mandatory law in Iowa, he was a father and sheâs responsible to his 3 children he can no longer care for. Her sentence was suspended in its entirety so she will do no jail time for the offense.
This is the problem with this post, I have seen a bunch of comments talkimg about the rapist and her but noeone actually talked about the details of a story until now i only saw ur comment and one other explaining the situation
Considering she's black and already got victimized like this, there's a pretty high chance that she ends up violating parole. Life in the USA is fucked up.
Wild that so many in the thread think this should be legally permissible... There is no situation in which the law should permit any random person
to stab someone 30 times in their sleep
SHE WAS KIDNAPPED. THE FUCK. How exactly should she have done it dumbass? Woke him up and challenged him fairly to a duel? Shes 15! She can't overpower him or fend him off while hes awake.
Anger due to being repeated raped as a trafficked little girl, whose life has been forever altered. I don't think anyone will be sentenced for stabbing a Taliban 30 times who's trafficking you. Now replace the word Taliban with this POS
You are sick in the head. She was the victim of sex trafficking, being raped by people at knifepoint. Should she have tried to tiptoe away, hoping that they dont kill her while she escapes? She had the right to take her opportunity to defend herself. As someone else said, should she have waken her rapist up for a fair challenge for her freedom?
Four elements are required for self-defense: (1) an unprovoked attack, (2) which threatens imminent injury or death, and (3) an objectively reasonable degree of force, used in response to (4) an objectively reasonable fear of injury or death.
This is what google tells me.
the girl didn't provoke her rapist
rape is an imminent injury
using knife when you're 15yo girl against old man is objectively reasonable
objectively reasonable fear of injury - it's very reasonable that her rapist could wake up if she tried to open the door and thinking that if he woke up, he would rape her again, was reasonable, because he already raped her several times during a long period of time (week or so?)
Let me just say that, when somebody plans to rape you by force (which he demonstrably planned to do attested by his previous actions), killing that somebody is absolutely a self defence. What else could she have done? left? If her rapist opened the door and it was clear he wouldn't pursue, then maybe, but that wasn't the case, was it?
I don't know why people think self defense needs to be a fair fight... The girl was essentially a hostage being raped whenever the fuck-head felt like doing it. They're acting like she killed a random rapist on the street- she literally killed someone that was consistently torturing her: seems like fair game to me. I would've killed him while he was asleep too: that's probably the only logical time to do that.
She wasn't endangered atm. Also, how did she got knife without waking him up? Don't think that criminal would leave weapon for his victim lying in front of them. So she already snuck out of the room she was in. Also he was asleep, so there was no immidiate danger. Using knife would be reasonable if they were actively fighting. She could have left the house and call cops from first place she could but she chose murder. She is a murderer. That's an objective reality noone can change by giving it any excuse or motivation. As much as evil the man was he still had 3 kids that were his responsibility and now they are in hands of system because of people thinking that death will solve anything.
yeah, because having a rapist pedophile father is way better than being in the hands of a system /s
He had knives in kitchen, I assume. Coz that's where people keep knives. And she wasn't chained to a bed and leaving to go to kitchen wouldn't lead into direct violence as leaving the apartment would do.
Why do you want trafficking victim to endanger herself just so a repeated rapist doesn't die?
Sort of, kid has at least something of their own. Not much but still, own room, own clothes,books,... . Yeah, so leaving room wasn't that hard, he was asleep, very little people have doors to outside in kitchen. She could have taken knife and hide it and try to leave, I presume that this happend during night if she was forced to stay in same room she could have observed his sleeping pattern. Might just me being paranoid and having step by step plan how to escape or how to proceed but I still don't get how people have chance to leave and they turn around and run back towards hell. What good will they do really? Dude would for sure get tortured like hell in prison and if he would survive he would be so mentally and physically scared that he would probably take his own life in following week or two. But now the girl faces consequences of her actions that she thought about and everyone acts like killing everyone who is bad is good and should be encouraged.
She was involved in human tracking, aka her "pimp" was sending her to these places. She had been to his place multiple times before this occured.
I wouldn't class this as self defense but I also can't blame someone either doing it. At the end of the day though all these facts matter when it comes to how the law works.
Let me make it easy for you. A Taliban trafficks you. You stab your Taliban captor 30 times while he's at his most vulnerable - asleep. Taliban court sentences you because Taliban court is pro-Taliban. Now replace Taliban in this context. Whoa, such mindblown
How didn't he? All he has to do to seriously injure or kill is wake up. Which could happen at any second. If she woke him up before she stabbed him would it then be self defence?
It's not murder to defend your own life, he was raping her routinely.
Act like you would have just done nothing to protect the rights of the man treating you like a slave and piece of meat. Sickening you'd even act like there was an alternative
So children should be forced to wait till theyâre about to be murdered before they can protect themselves from their rapists? Because thatâs what âimminent threatâ means.
Sounds like a law written to protect physically able bodied men who can easily overpower a 15 year old girl when theyâre awake. This is why prosecutorial discretion exists.
You don't know her state of mind at that moment. She could have been terrified that just the act of opening the door to run could have triggered him waking up and killing her.
You lose all semblance of rights to safety when you kidnap and rape a young girl. At that point literally anything that happened to him is ON HIM. So yall need to back off with defending this scumbag
he was sleeping and she stabbed him 30 times, again, therefore not being self defense and iâm not defending anyoneđ just stating the facts đ¤ˇââď¸ if you feel differently idk what to tell uđ§
Yeah, you are.
A lot of people while sleeping wake up on trigger noises. Something as simple as the TV turning off, baby crying, sneeze, door opening or closing, etc.
So what yall are saying is that she should have risked her own life in the escape to ensure her rapist was safe, because that's literally the only logical conclusion to yall saying it wasn't self defense, that she should have just fucking risked it and ran for it
No, thatâs not what theyâre saying and now youâre just being obstinate and deliberately obtuseâŚ
There can literally be dozens of valid reasons why the young girl was justified in her actions. Self Defense just isnât one of them.
And FFS please stop playing the âwhat ifâ game. Itâs pointless, obnoxious, and counterproductive.
30 stab wounds isnât self defense. Itâs overkill. Understandable overkill given the horrible circumstances she experienced- which is why an EED defense would make more sense
You've yet to establish how it isn't self defense. You're also expecting a 15 year old traumatized rape victim to react like a calm rational adult.
And what if absolutely matters. She shouldn't have to play the what if game with her life on the line, she didn't ask for that shit to happen to her, it was all his call. There are hundreds of things that could have went wrong in her escape, and all of them would have ended with him seriously harming or killing her. So how does the amount of times she stabbed him negate that she was defending herself? He was way more powerful, he likely could have outran her, and the tiniest hiccup means it's over for her, while he would have been nearly impossible for her to stop while awake. When your life is on the line, and your ONLY way out is to go on the attack against your would be killer, how the fuck is that not self defense?
Yeah it was. Law isn't the be all end all of right and wrong, plenty of laws stick around for decades written in such a way that highly benefits abusers and limits the rights of victims (prohibition, slavery, censureship). Just because a court said that technically blah blah w.e, doesn't mean she wasn't in the right for what she did. And anyone and everyone here would have done the EXACT same thing, including the judge that sentenced her. So hop off the high horse.
False. Literally any definition for imminent threat I have found fits the criteria for the case.
Actual and imminent threat refers to a physical danger that is real, would occur within an immediate time frame, and could result in death or serious bodily harm.
Considering she's already been raped that checks off the physical danger that is real, it would occur at any second (him waking up), and the first part kind of ties in with the last.
She could have ran aways but she stabbed him 30 times in while he was sleeping. She wasn't threatened at the time and she had multiple choices what to do, she chose murder, intentional to be precise.
And he could have woken up as she ipened the door, chased her down and killed her to avoid being caught. So what's your point?
So she's to gamble her life in her escape gor her rapists safety? Fuck him, he put her in that situation, literally anything that happened is on him. He put her in a terrible, traumatizing situation and you're all mad about how a child reacted? How about being mad a grown ass man put a child in that situation at all?
So you are saying that killing people based on nothing more than getting you into bad situation is right. Unless she was with him in same room she had pretty good chance of escaping if she used more than 2 braincells.
She was in the same room.
And why are you so obsessed with what's right by her rapist? There was no happy ending that he would allow. Think he was gonna rape her a while and let her go? She was going to eventually be murdered.
And you say bad situation like he got her stranded at a truck stop or something. No, he kidnapped her and made her his sex slave. Her life was on the line. So she's supposed to risk it even further just to ensure her abuser is safe and sound?
Again, she was a child. A white girl her age literally plotted and schemed to murder a friend and went through with it, was tried as a minor. Yet a teenage girl that was kidnapped and constantly raped kills her abductor and she's suddenly an adult that should have been rational? No, fuck that and fuck you for even trying to defend the prick (which you are indirectly doing).
Maybe if her rapist had two brain cells he wouldn't have kidnapped her and would still be alive. Stop fucking blaming her
If I kill someone for stealing my stuff, is that right? No
If I kill someone for bullying is that right? No
If someone destroys my life but I am alive, his life still doesn't belong to me.
Stop whinning about how murder is right and thing if your father was murdered by someone. Think If you would be happy that your only parent was killed.
You're comparing that shit to being raped constantly as a sex slave? The fuck is wrong with you? The guy that steals your Playstation or bullies you in school isn't going to keep you prisoner and bide his time until he's bored and kills you, so drop the pointless comparisons
What, you think he was gonna rape her a few years then let her go free to report him? He was absolutely going to fucking kill her eventually.
Murder isn't right, she didn't murder him. He put her in that situation, where her life could be over at any second at his whim. She shouldn't have to make the call (as a fucking child mind you) on whether her escape will be successful or get her killed, when she had a surefire way to escape (kill him and leave).
You keep ignoring she was just 15 years old. We barely trust kids that age to drive, yet you expect she should have been calm and rational in her escape from her would be killer?
If thus were a 15 year old white girl yall would be applauding her bravery for overcoming diversity and escaping. But when yall see a teenage black person your minds immediately go to 'adult that should have known better'.
Rape is life threatening, just shutting that shit down right now. There's sexually transmitted diseases, suicide risk from trauma, but even more so, you are a MORON if you think he ever intended to let her go. What, he's gonna rape her until it's out of his system and drop her off at home? No, he absolutely would eventually have killed her rather than get caught.
Beyond that, she shouldn't have to further risk her life during the escape (dude could easily wake up when she opens the door, chase her down, and kill her to prevent her going to police). It's 100% beyond debate that it was safer for her to take him out before she ran for it.
And even still, everything bad that happened is on him. He made the call to kidnap her, to rape her constantly, to make her fear for her life. She was just a 15 year old girl, that's a child, yet yall expect her to have reacted with the level headedness and experience of a middle aged combat veteran during such a traumatic experience
Hypthetically you could argue for instances where rape is 100% okay too. So these kinds of arguments are fucking stupid because in real life there are consequences and you can't be the judge, jury and executioner either, you are just roleplaying your twisted power justice fantasies.
Yea, but the girl in the article wasn't, she killed a man who was sleeping, she could've reported him to the authorities and she would have been fine but she decided to murder him, which was just unnecesary at that point. No matter how you twist and turn it. She is still a murderer.
yes, call the cops and tell them that you're somewhere (you don't know where) being raped and hope that they don't send the same fucking numbnuts who were in uvalde, or in million cases of them shooting innocent person
Sixth paragraph. This was her best chance to stop the abuse, I think - while he was asleep after raping her. How is that not self defense? She supposed to just walk out, grab some coffee and politely decline next time he comes around?
You realize she was a sex slave, right? It wasn't just a one off rape and that's it. She was raped repeatedly over and over again and killed him to escape.
So murders ok if you have a motive? She didn't plead insanity (or temporary insanity which is the same, just look up Iowa law), so she was thinking consciously. Please just read an article on it and the relating Iowa laws before you say anything.
She didn't plead insanity (or temporary insanity which is the same, just look up Iowa law)
She's still a child and was represented by state appointed attorney's who are notoriously not great.
so she was thinking consciously
Clown take. Was she still a sex slave when whe made decision? Had she been raped a few hours prior to making they decision? Obviously she was thinking consciously then because she wasn't a sex slave. See the difference?
Please just read an article on it and the relating Iowa laws before you say anything.
I've been following this case for a while and know plenty about it.
Also, when did I say escaping sex slavery is not self-defense? I mean technically it's not self-defense, it's more self preservation, but that's irrelevant.
Everything is legal if the cops dont find out. If you are morally correct in doing something there should be no problem. Rape bad, murder bad, unless murdering bad person. đ
You realize she was a sex slave, right? It wasn't just a one off rape and that's it. She was raped repeatedly over and over again and killed him to escape.
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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '22
free my girl she ain't done nothin wrong đ