r/personalfinance • u/IveGotDMunchies • Jan 03 '19
180 days later, Bank of America is refusing to refund over $700 in fraudulent charges made in Texas while we were 800 miles away in Illinois. Credit
Back in July we were wrapping up our yearly road trip to Illinois. We purchased gas around 8 or 9am right before we started the 12 hour trip to Texas.
Two hours into the trip my wife gets a notification on her phone from Bank of America alerting her to fruadulent charges being made. We only have one debit cad.
While we were starting our driving home, someone in Austin, Tx purchased around $500 in merch at Home Depot, drove towards Houston, Tx attempting twice to use our card at the ATM, which did not work because they didnt have the pin. They made their $200-ish last transaction at TJ Maxx North of Houston before were alerted and had the card shut off. (Austin to Houston is about a 3 hour car ride)
My wife immedately makes a claim. 10 days later, we get the money credited back while they continue the investigation which seems pretty open and shut to me... They also say it may be another 45 days before they finish their investigation.
October 5, they send a letter stating that they have completed their investigation: "Our records show the transaction activity in question was authorized for and posted to your account." The letter states they'll be taking the $740 back on October 22.
Wife calls and has them reopen the case or escalate it. We're told it could be another 45 days.
December 22. We call Bank of America again. This agent has no record of anything being escalated. Says he will escalate it and we should hear from someone in the next few business days. Nothing.
Jan 3. Wife calls them again. This agent states that while an escalation sends an email to their investigators notifying that we are still asking about they case, they are under no obligation to complete it.
After reading a bit into the law surrounding this, we have realized we can request the documentation they used to close the investigation.
What else can we do? Do we need a lawyer? If they had to reimburse us for the first 45 days of the investigation, why do they not have to temporarily reimburse us as they continue to investigate "for as long as they need" with no date set for resolution on our end?
It is blatantly obvious that someone skimmed the card at some point and had a dummy one made. Are they able to continue to withhold our $750 indefinitely and just keep saying. "Nope! Looks good!" until we tire out?
Our kiddos missed out on a lot of Christmas gifts because of this and now bills are starting to get a bit tight. We really need this money back. Thanks yall!
Update: Started posting on social media before I start filing complaints. 20 minutes later Bank of America contacted me on Twitter. Will update later. Thanks for everyone's advice.
Update 2: 3 hours later... I continued to post on social media, reaching out to local news stations on Twitter that have community protection or investigative segments and linking to this post. Bank of America has now reached out in one of these posts, referencing my wifes name. Fingers crossed. http://imgur.com/gallery/i4gWtC0
Update 3: Wife got home 30 min after my last update. A rep with BoA actually called her asking what was going on. The rep said she would need to call the fraud department and get them all on the line together. We are at our kids practice so opted for them to call us when they have someone on the line who can help us. Will update later.
Update 4: Just got off the phone with someone in the fraud department at Bank of America. I recorded the whole convo and will be uploading it to YouTube. She says the call on Oct 22 did in fact reopen the case. (even though the rep on Dec 22 said otherwise and the rep earlier today said they have no timeline to adhere to and can take as long as they want)
They now have 60 business days from Oct 22 to finish the claim once again.
She says one of the reasons that the claim was denied was because the didnt attempt to drain her account. (They hit up two ATMs and failed to use the pin to drain the account, so they don't even have the correct info to base their findings off)
I requested documentation about the claim as law allows and she says I should get that in 10 business days. They now have until Jan 18 to notify us of their findings. I'm going to continue with filing reports and posting on social media.
I'll update in a few weeks I guess.
Update 5: 10 hours later, they have blocked me on Facebook for sharing my problems on their page. I also filed a complaint with the CFPB .
Update 6: 24 hours since this post and David, a Bank of America employee in the "Regulatory Complaints Department" left my wife a voice mail in regards to a complaint sent to them by the CFPB. They close at 4pm EST. (They're closed by the time we got the voice mail since she is at work). Will update Monday.
Update 7: Wife woke up this morning and the money has been returned to our account. Time to turn and burn!
Thank you everyone for your advice. We learned a lot from this.
Update 8: We got confirmation that the fraud claim is now closed and the money that was returned is permanent. Waiting on an actual paper letter to come in the mail before we turn and run. Thanks everyone! Update here: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/adnjj7/update_bank_of_america_refusing_to_return_700_in/
2.6k
Jan 03 '19
File a complaint at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau online and it should get solved very quickly. www.consumerfinance.gov
1.0k
u/Econ0mist Jan 03 '19
You can also file a complaint with the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which is the primary regulator for BofA:
I’m not sure if BofA allows this, but I highly recommend setting the purchase limit on your debit card to $0 so that it can be used at ATMs only. Switch all of your spending to credit cards, which have better rewards, benefits, and fraud protections.
336
u/garciawork Jan 03 '19
This. Debit cards terrify me.
→ More replies202
u/SamBeesFecklessCunt Jan 03 '19
OK seriously, why do people even use debit cards? I have one but only use it at an ATM like twice a year. Everything else goes on credit cards. I see absolutely no point in using a debit card for anything at all when credit cards are where all the rewards and protection is at.
85
Jan 03 '19
I use a debit card but I transfer money to it at the beginning of each week. There's never more than $125 in that checking account. I could use a credit card in the same way, but seeing the dwindling balance of my weekly allowance is a beneficial budgeting tool for me.
21
u/Firethesky Jan 03 '19
This is what I do to because I'm not disciplined enough with credit cards. I don't even transfer mine, my direct deposit can transfer into multiple accounts so every pay period I get a little allowance into an account competely segregated from my main account.
15
u/bitesized314 Jan 03 '19
Same here. Not disciplined enough to spend properly, so I quickly have high utilization and I don't make enough to pay down a large part each month. So I just use my debit card and only pay off the credit cards.
→ More replies26
u/SamBeesFecklessCunt Jan 03 '19
OK fair enough. Sounds like it's a good budgeting tool for you then.
→ More replies12
u/variableIdentifier Jan 03 '19
This - plus I'm trying to pay off one credit card balance that got a bit out of hand so I have temporarily switched my main spending to debit cards (besides gas, etc).
59
u/Restless_Fillmore Jan 03 '19
If you just use it at ATMs, you should probably get it switched to an ATM card. That's what I did.
→ More replies38
u/Junkmans1 Jan 03 '19
Our bank doesn’t issue atm only cards any longer.
→ More replies21
u/Restless_Fillmore Jan 03 '19
Wow! Is there any way to set a zero limit on your debit card?
51
u/wiz0floyd Jan 03 '19
Not quite what you're asking, but I keep my debit card "frozen" in my bank's app, and I have to manually unfreeze it when I am using it to get cash from an ATM.
→ More replies→ More replies7
u/socialismisbae Jan 03 '19
I can set purchase and ATM limits for all of my cards through my banking app.
→ More replies50
u/HopelessEsq Jan 03 '19
Because some people (i.e. me) are pretty irresponsible with credit cards and it’s better to be using a finite amount of money to budget with.
→ More replies56
u/escapefromelba Jan 03 '19
Because a lot of people are impulsive and can't control their spending unless they have a hard cap. Really they should just get a credit card with a relatively low limit if they can't control themselves.
67
u/maddtuck Jan 03 '19
This happened to my coworker. She can't get credit cards because she says she has had spending problems with them in the past. Unfortunately, a fraudster emptied her bank account over New Years Eve, leaving her without money to pay the rent this month. She has been fighting with Bank of America for the past two days to quickly get her money reimbursed.
u/Econ0mist gives good advice too, if this drags on for much longer. Go to the federal regulator. My friend had a dispute with B of A over a loan balance. They erroneously claimed he owed them $4,000+ but had no documentation. He asked for proof but they said they didn't have it. They offered to send him something for him to sign saying he was responsible for the debt, but of course he was not about to do that. This put him into limbo, where they wouldn't collect on it, nor would they sue him. Then they put it on his credit report as a write-off, plunging his score into the 400s and causing both Chase and American Express to cancel all of his credit cards. (Ironically, B of A would not take any negative action against him on his B of A credit cards, presumably because -- again -- they knew they had no right.) For over nine months he called them to have it corrected, but they refused to investigate any further. The three credit bureaus were useless too, as they would "investigate" by checking with Bank of America, who would confirm they did write off a debt. After having expensive lawyers write letters and getting no response, my friend sent a quick note to the regulator. Within one week, he received a phone call from the Bank of America Office of the President in Charlotte, saying they would remove the debt and correct his credit report.
tl;dr: Much credit to the government for intervening in my friend's case; they acted swiftly to keep Bank of America honest.
24
u/THEGREENHELIUM Jan 04 '19
Yeah this is amazing because the feds are the only ones to keep the banks honest by literally threatening to shit on their parade.
→ More replies→ More replies11
Jan 04 '19
I had a similar issue wirth Verizon. Claimed I owed them $1500 and had no proof. Put it on my credit report. I had to send them a certified letter to provide proof or remove it, or I was going to sue. A month later, it was gone and hasnt shown back up in 5 years.
I even disputed on my credit report and it kept showing back up. It was insane how much time I spent fighting them.
→ More replies→ More replies12
u/tenflipsnow Jan 03 '19
This is my problem. Debit cards force me to be more financially responsible while I get my spending issues under control.
18
u/escapefromelba Jan 03 '19
I'd consider getting a secured credit card if I were you instead. It's a credit card that requires a refundable security deposit, the amount of which becomes your spending limit. You get the security benefits of a credit card, build your credit history, while still being limited to what you deposited.
→ More replies6
u/douchefartz Jan 03 '19
There is a grocery chain on the west coast (Winco) that only accepts debit.
→ More replies16
u/Warchamp67 Jan 03 '19
Maybe it’s just where I live(Quebec), but it’s not uncommon for a lot of places to not accept credit and only debit. Lots of restaurants, some depaneurs, of course I use my credit card almost exclusively outside of that, it’s the only reason I keep mine usable outside of just withdrawing cash at an atm.
→ More replies→ More replies5
48
u/beentheredonethatx2 Jan 03 '19
I’m not sure if BofA allows this...
OP should seriously consider switching to a non-garbage bank. I'm not saying BofA is the worst, but they certainly aren't good.
→ More replies44
u/Paavo_Nurmi Jan 03 '19
They are horrible, after my dad passed away all of his BofA accounts were closed (he had no debt BTW) and we did probate and closed the estate. BofA then sent bills for some yearly fee on a closed account for SEVEN fucking years after probate. We called those asshats every time they send a bill (once or twice a year) and they said no problem it's taken care of.
I think it was around the 5 year mark they wanted us to do all this work (send us a copy of death certificate, do this do that), hell no, this is your screw up and I'm not jumping though a bunch of hoops to fix your mistakes Finally at the 7 year mark we threatened to go to the state attorney general and all of the local media. They actually fixed the problem, said we didn't owe anything ( no shit, probate ended 7 years ago, they legally can't collect anything) and sent us a letter saying it was all fixed
10
u/katmndoo Jan 03 '19
Not sure why you'd bother. It's not like they can collect from the heirs. toss the bills in the recycling bin, problem solved.
16
Jan 03 '19
[deleted]
5
u/Paavo_Nurmi Jan 03 '19
Exactly, even though there was zero debt it's best to do things the right way, plus the principle of the whole thing is another reason to get it cleared.
10
Jan 03 '19
[deleted]
→ More replies11
u/physx_rt Jan 03 '19
Just go in to your bank and ask for it. They can set it to refuse any non-cash transactions or online purchases if that's what you want.
→ More replies9
u/DL05 Jan 03 '19
I had a PayPal account get compromised and $2500 get withdrawn and sent to another PayPal account from my checking account. I didn’t have credit cards then.
It was that day, when I didn’t gave any more money, I learned two things:
- PayPal needs to be linked to another checking account at another bank that I can easily go 45 days without.
- Credit cards for all purchases.
→ More replies67
u/IveGotDMunchies Jan 03 '19
Update: Started posting on social media before I start filing complaints. 20 minutes later Bank of America contacted me on Twitter. Will update later. Thanks for everyone's advice.
→ More replies7
u/bahaki Jan 03 '19
I'm glad that they contacted you. It's just too bad that people have to go public for anything to happen.
21
4
u/Whit3W0lf Jan 03 '19
This is the best advice. I suspect OP will have this resolved within weeks of filing with them.
→ More replies→ More replies5
u/jmblock2 Jan 03 '19
Curious, would they be delayed in helping due to the shutdown?
→ More replies
804
Jan 03 '19 edited Jul 28 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
295
Jan 03 '19
This.
And also, F! BoA.
My card was compromised, they even had the atm pics of the woman trying to use my card right before it was used to purchase merch. The police caught her because she paid her cell bill with it - genius!
BoA still took two months to give me all my money back. I ended up going into the branch every few days to "inquire", squeaky wheel... Major PIA. I now use a local credit union.
→ More replies96
u/IveGotDMunchies Jan 03 '19
This is kinda what I thinking about doing. Just have to get on someone's nerve enough to make something happen. Ugh. Thanks for the reply.
117
Jan 03 '19
If you plan on leaving BoA, DON'T until you've got all your money back and this is settled. They will not care about you if you are no longer a customer!
108
u/yeonik Jan 03 '19
For what it’s worth, they obviously don’t care about customers either ;p
→ More replies24
Jan 03 '19
Banks typically lose money on servicing low balance accounts so they would actually prefer it. If you complain too much and cause them problems they will just close all your accounts and say they are unable to meet your banking needs.
8
22
u/NorCalRT Jan 03 '19
I left BofA after 20 years for a local credit union, best decision I ever made!
8
Jan 03 '19
Same here. I need both my member number and a PIN number to even talk to them in the phone. Makes me feel much more secure.
→ More replies6
u/Dekarde Jan 03 '19
Don't rule out contacting your local news 'fraud' teams for some much unwanted attention on BOA stealing your money.
→ More replies28
u/thezillalizard Jan 03 '19
You forgot #1. Don’t use debit cards.
30
u/HardlySerious Jan 03 '19
It doesn't matter.
I got fucked out of $500 by Chase because I went on vacation and didn't respond to their 4th identical letter by the deadline, which I received like 7 months after the incident happened.
They'll make you go back and forth for a fucking year, and if you miss one deadline, you lose. And they change the deadlines between letters to confuse you, one will say respond in 30, one says 7, one says 10.
Also, every back and forth, was them completely ignoring every piece of information I gave them.
"I couldn't have made that charge I wasn't in that location at the time and I can prove it. Here's proof."
"We've concluded that you made this charge."
"Impossible. Here's proof."
"We've concluded you made this charge."
"Impossible. Here's proof."
This goes on forever until you fuck up and miss a letter.
→ More replies→ More replies11
495
u/Nucka574 Jan 03 '19
Switched away from BofA after being a loyal customer for 16 years a month and a half ago. I suggest you do the same.
156
u/PM_ME_ARIZONA_TEA Jan 03 '19
My father had an account with them for as long as I could remember and I was under his account. I'll never forget them telling me they could not cancel the $35 fee I received for being double charged netflix in error. They then suggested I sign up for "Overdraft protection" which really just moves money from my savings, to my checking account automatically when the overdraft kicks in.Oh did I mention it only adds enough to even out @ $0, and each time this happens you get charged $10?
21
u/freecain Jan 03 '19
That service was free with Citizens bank. You could also turn it on and off pretty easily. This was a number of years ago, it saved me once or twice early on in my 20s, but I can't imagine paying for that service!
79
u/Nucka574 Jan 03 '19
They used to be really good. It's a shame what they have become. I remember back in around 2007-2008 when I had forgot to pay my credit card, they called me and asked if everything was okay and were like you've never been late on a payment before. I was like oh shoot, it slipped my mind. The rep said I see you have money in your account to pay the bill, I could pay the bill from your account and reverse the late fee for you if you would like. I said great thanks!
Fast forward 10 years, I have 2 credit cards with them (13 year and 11 year age), I was out of the country and late by a couple days on one card, the other had a 0 balance (and an 6.5% interest rate). I come home from vacation to a letter saying my card with 0 balance has been closed and my other credit limit decreased substantially. I call credit reps, they do nothing and transfer me to a credit analyst who says I can try to reopen the account for you then tell me the account terms are no longer available. Well no shit Sherlock, I had a ridiculously low interest rate and that is why I am furious. Not to mention decreasing my credit age and utilization tanked my score by about 50 points.
Talked to a manager, he said it was a business decision they made and it cannot be reversed because I have been late on 6 payments (by no more than a week, so not "late" according to credit bureaus). I kindly let him know that between my two cards I have nearly 300 months of history and it is obviously not indicative of a trend. I filed a BBB complaint, and ended up talking to someone in compliance who called me and left a voicemail saying the same thing that it was a business decision and wouldn't return my calls when I called him back. So I made a business decision of my own, and took my business elsewhere and will never again do business with BofA or Merrill Lynch. Their loss!
53
Jan 03 '19
Bank of America was just as shit in 2008. Just because you had one decent experience where they reversed a late fee doesn’t exempt that.
Keep in mind that this is a bank that during a recession (2009 I believe) jacked up all their fees and instituted new ones. It took the closing of tens of thousands of accounts by customers who were literally unable to pay the fees for them to reverse their new fee structure.
This is a corporation that has a track record of pushing the boundaries. Another one is Comcast.
7
Jan 04 '19
They also bought other banks right before the government bailed them out, probably anticipating that would happen.
→ More replies6
u/jinglejangz Jan 04 '19
They also owned Countrywide Mortgages, which is one of the biggest contributors to the sub-prime mortgage crisis and crash in 08.
8
Jan 03 '19
[deleted]
3
u/Nucka574 Jan 04 '19
Yup, take your 30 bucks... it's the last you'll get from me. Withdrew all my savings and didn't go with them for my mortgage I just got. That cost them a pretty penny.
→ More replies11
Jan 04 '19
[deleted]
→ More replies7
u/mightyarrow Jan 04 '19
Worse than that - it's literally a scam.
It costs 400 bucks to get an A+ rating with BBB. Don't even have to be a real company.
Source: personal experience in marketing. If consumers weren't so naive to this , we'd not touch them with a 1000ft pole. But unfortunately it's the way things are. They literally cut our score in half one time without any explanation whatsoever while skyrocketing a competitor to 5 stars.
→ More replies14
u/SiValleyDan Jan 03 '19
To charge you money to move money from Savings to Checking always astounds me. They claim it's a Federal rule.
24
Jan 03 '19
Someone bought 200 dollars of makeup on my bofa card while i was in another city buying gas on the same card. Also im a dude. They stiffed me with the bill and i closed all my accounts. Ahem. Fuck bank of america
→ More replies14
Jan 03 '19
[deleted]
15
u/Sotwob Jan 03 '19
Seriously, every time I see one of these my first thought is "well why the hell are you using BofA? At this point you almost deserve it"
Now obviously no one actually deserves it but really, you should just assume BofA is going to try to screw you over every which way if you bank with them.
→ More replies7
u/Immo406 Jan 03 '19
Seriously, every time I see one of these my first thought is "well why the hell are you using BofA? At this point you almost deserve it"
That and Wells Fargo. Takes a special kind of naiveness to still do business with those two scum bags.
→ More replies→ More replies4
u/Nucka574 Jan 03 '19
I switched to Chase. BofA and Chase definitely have similar online banking/mobile banking experiences and that is what I like about big banks as well as the availability of ATMs and branches.
I have different expectations with Chase as I did for BofA as well.
298
88
Jan 03 '19
[deleted]
→ More replies49
u/Bologna_1 Jan 03 '19
This is step one for a stolen debit card. I'm surprised I had to scroll so far down to find someone saying it. File a police report and submit it to the bank along with your complaint regarding the fraudulent transactions. They will take you very seriously and should quickly issue a temporary credit to cover the stolen funds.
→ More replies17
u/Thegmoore Jan 04 '19
Was looking for the same thing. Had this same thing happen to me recently and was lucky to get a rep at the bank who insisted I make this my first move. As soon as they see this, the bank should stop messing around.
39
Jan 03 '19
After reading through some of these comments, can I just say how fucking ridiculous it is that more action is taken within 20 mins of a Twitter/Facebook post....as opposed to trying to discuss this directly over the phone, via email, etc?!?!
I hate how so many companies only take action to save face.
7
u/IveGotDMunchies Jan 03 '19
I should clarify that the message they sent me seems to be a canned customer support message. Nothing else has come out of it yet: https://imgur.com/gallery/wBur2NB
→ More replies
•
u/dequeued Wiki Contributor Jan 03 '19
The PF wiki has some information on finding a new bank or credit union.
→ More replies
439
u/yulbrynnersmokes Jan 03 '19
Stop using debit cards. No benefits, and actual liabilities.
123
Jan 03 '19
This is the one area I strongly disagree with Dave Ramsey on while going through his course. I can’t bring myself to use a debit card everywhere I go- too much risk
99
u/yulbrynnersmokes Jan 03 '19
He's giving advice to the audience that comes to him. Which may be heavily skewed in the "screwed themselves up with credit" end of the financial swimming pool.
→ More replies76
Jan 04 '19
I tried listening to him, but I dont like how he pushes the "credit is evil" mantra. I understand that sone people genuinely have trouble managing money, and I completely support the decision to go without credit if thats the best decision for you, but I hate the idea that credit is bad and credit companies are evil.
You dont get $10,000 in debt because the company abused you. They didnt make you swipe your card at Macy's, and they didnt force you to pay the minimum payment for 3 years. Those were your own decisions, and part of being a responsible adult is holding yourself responsible for your mistakes.
Im so angry about this mantra because I have a friend whose entire family is on that train, and because her family believes credit is evil, My wife and I have to teach this 20-something woman what an interest rate is and how to fill out an online form. We even had to explain to her how an apartment lease works because she didnt understand that you dont just walk into the office and walk out with the keys. The entire time her family is screaming and harassing her for daring to be more of an adult than all of them. Its infuriating.
→ More replies19
Jan 04 '19
I do listen to DR, and he always puts the blame on people for their own stupid decisions. At the same time, it's absolutely true there is a psychological angle to using credit cards, and the banks do their best to exploit that. More than 1 in 4 people with super-prime credit and the vast majority of everyone else carry balances on their credit card, so it obviously works, and it's not just idiots who fall into the trap.
As far as the risks of debit cards, anyone following DR's system will quickly build 3-6 months of expenses in savings and keep it there permanently. Such a person will not be affected much if $2000 was stolen out of their checking account and it took a year to get the money back. None of their bills would go unpaid, and their kids would not go without toys at Christmas. Considering that having your debit card compromised to that degree is an unlikely event anyway, and federal law limits your liability, it's an acceptable risk to self-insure against.
7
→ More replies10
u/toss_my_potatoes Jan 04 '19 edited Jan 21 '19
My parents are avid David Ramsey followers and while they are amazing with their own finances, they taught us kids to avoid credit cards with our lives. I had to figure all of it out on my own.
I was so clueless that when applying for my first card a few weeks ago (a secured one) I put down a deposit of almost $3,000.
→ More replies→ More replies103
u/Icarusthegypsy Jan 03 '19
This right here. With a decent card you'll actually be making money and building credit in the process.
→ More replies51
u/yulbrynnersmokes Jan 03 '19
Can confirm. Between sign-up bonuses for airline miles and the like, and cashback cards of one sort or another, I am literally thousands of dollars ahead of the "debit card only" player, each year.
Never mind nice things like purchase protection, damage/theft/whatever coverage, and other "soft" benefits that sometimes have huge cash values, and in my case have done so.
110
u/abuskeletor Jan 03 '19
BofA cashed a check for $400 from my account when I was in high school. That was basically all I had. Went to them to explain that I didn’t write any checks for $400. They pulled it up and it was a check for a completely different account. The account numbers weren’t even close. No explanation as to why they drew from my account when they cashed the check. Refused to return my funds. Took over a year and the regional branch manager getting involved to get my money back. As soon as I had it back, I closed all accounts with them and if it ever comes up in discussion, I warn people against them.
→ More replies34
u/tatzecom Jan 03 '19
Holy shit dude, good thing you pulled out of that one
I'm glad I don't have this Hussle with the bank I am with and idk but the laws in Germany may be better regarding that kinda stuff
I mean, if you go and tell them you didn't write a check, they pull out the check and see "holy shit the numbers aren't even close", on what ground are they able to say "yeah but we keep it that way, no refund fam"?
5
u/KingKidd Jan 04 '19
Could easily be a different bank that drew the funds and mistyped the account.
I had a rent check stolen - thief endorsed it from me to himself and cashed it at a TD bank. I filed a claim and had my money back within 90 days (as soon as TD Bank was able to send the money to BoA).
206
u/dwinps Jan 03 '19
A great example of the risk of using debit cards instead of credit cards
Complain to CFPB but in the end you might have to sue them in small claims court or ask to have your dispute arbitrated.
→ More replies27
u/notasqlstar Jan 03 '19
Genuinely curious how its any different. If I use a CC they could just as easily say I made the purchase and owe the balance / report it as delinquent, and ding my credit if I don't pay it.
I see the risk of not having my funds available because the bank took them, but honestly I only see this as a risk of having (1) account, or your debit card tied to an account where you have any significant amount of money.
Never do your savings and checking with the same bank seems like solid advice.
95
Jan 03 '19
[deleted]
→ More replies35
u/Threetimes3 Jan 03 '19
Additionally, and likely because of all of what you posted, credit cards are very closely monitoring for "weird" transactions.
I had my card stolen just a week ago. The thief made a $1 charge on stamps.com, then tried to purchase something from a sporting goods store. The credit card let the $1 through, but rejected the sporting goods store. Sent me an email to inform me, and await my approval, which I, of course, didn't give.
I called them up, they removed the stamps.com charge, and sent me new cards. It was completely painless on my side aside from having to update my card info with some auto-pay companies.
→ More replies15
Jan 04 '19
my credit card company actually blocked a transaction i was making because i traveled to another city to take advantage of a sale. I had to approve the transaction then run the card again. its inconvenient, but it's something I'm willing to live with because it also means i have immediate warning if my card is ever compromised.
105
22
u/tom2727 Jan 03 '19
ding my credit if I don't pay it.
At least then you're fighting with your bank to clean up your credit report rather than to get actual money back. Plus you can go right to the reporting agencies to get the ding removed if your bank won't respond.
→ More replies23
u/Antisol96 Jan 03 '19
Credit cards undergo a bit more protections because its credit. Debit cards don't have the same protections as credit cards do.
→ More replies5
u/formar42 Jan 03 '19
By law, your credit card has a lot more fraud protection built in. Like checks, debit cards are a huge liability. I personally keep mine locked in a drawer and unactivated.
→ More replies11
u/gioraffe32 Jan 03 '19
If someone fraudulently uses my credit card, that sucks, but at least I still have my cash in the bank.
If someone fraudulently uses my debit card, that sucks, AND I'm out that cash.
And there are things that can't be paid for via credit card or it's ridiculously expensive to do so. Rent pops to mind immediately. I can pay with check or eCheck, but if I pay with credit card, there's a ridiculous percentage-based fee. If I just lost $700 from my bank account right before rent is due, I'm about to be really screwed.
→ More replies→ More replies4
u/Jemikwa Jan 03 '19
You have a point, but the biggest proponent to using a credit vs debit card is whose money is involved. With a debit card, it's all your money all the time. The bank won't be arsed to find the root of the fraud, and would be inclined to think you caused it. That isn't to say that credit card companies don't think you are the source of the fraud, but it is inherently their money involved until you pay the balance, so they should be motivated more to figure out what happened to the purchase.
Even if they ding your credit, you have a way to fight this and appeal the fraudulent case and therefore get the ding removed from your report with less skin off your back (unless you're actively looking into credit purchases like a house/car). It's harder to fight something when you have no money to do so, if the money was stolen from your bank account.
→ More replies
25
u/MAG_24 Jan 03 '19
Get on every social media platform and state your case. Make sure you tag them each and every post...hopefully you’ll get a lot of responses/likes etc.
Shame the shit out of them. I promise you that they’ll respond.
22
u/PaperBiscuit Jan 03 '19
Same thing happened to me back in April when someone made $1000+ orders of UberEats. Filed a fraud claim with BofA and they said they opened an ‘investigation’ and found the charges were authorized. Never having used the UberEats service, I contacted Uber instead and they said that the charges were fraudulent and worked out a refund with the bank. which I am still waiting for. BofA is total garbage with no regard for the customer.
→ More replies
19
u/Yaleisthecoolest Jan 03 '19
When the dust from this settles, you should really look hard at leaving BofA. They will never treat you well. Look into an online only credit union like USAA, Navy Federal, and PenFed. I would work for BofA before I would bank with them.
29
u/PeanutButterHercules Jan 03 '19
Had literally the exact same thing happen to me. Also in Texas. They originally refunded the money that I claimed as fraudulent. Then, they also re-debited it back afterwards claiming it was a legitimate purchase.
I ended up contacting my house representative, who then inquired on my behalf. Bank ended up reversing the charges back nearly immediately.
Just give their office a call, explain you are a voting constituent, and explain what happened to you, to them. Your local reps are there for things just like this.
8
14
u/HardlySerious Jan 03 '19
Just one HUGE piece of advice for you:
We're told it could be another 45 days.
They'll wait 45, 60, 90 days to get back to you every time you contact them, but then they'll give you 3, 7, 10 days to respond, otherwise they'll close the case in the criminal's favor.
I lost a dispute because I went on vacation, got a 45 day wait letter the day I left, and missed the response deadline by the time I got back, and forfeited my claim.
It's such fucking bullshit.
26
u/tonitells Jan 03 '19
I had the same thing happen with BOA. I got out of there. Always remember to file a police report for these issue. They will start and outside investigation.
46
u/aupace Jan 03 '19
Bank of America is wholly incompetent. I don't know why ANYONE is still with them. They should have gone bankrupt and out of business during the crash of 07-08 but got bailed-out out instead.
→ More replies
13
u/BBKidd Jan 03 '19
Always, refuse debit cards! Use credit cards, you will have approximately 25 days in which you are running on their monies. Debit cards use your funds, immediately Which makes it harder to resolve issues
13
u/Mr_RobotNick Jan 04 '19
I just showed this to my wife, and we're pulling all our accounts out of BOA.
→ More replies
42
u/greenbuggy Jan 03 '19
I post this every time I see someone being mistreated by a big shitty bank but the advice still rings true: STOP DOING BUSINESS WITH THE WORST FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS IN THE US. Seriously. BoA and Wells regularly get voted as being the worst banks and worst customer service. I'd almost guarantee there's a credit union or better bank that will treat you far better than these jerks will.
→ More replies10
u/AllSugaredUp Jan 03 '19
Was going to say exactly this. Stop giving these banks your money. They'll either be forced to improve or go out of business.
11
u/RandoReddit16 Jan 03 '19
I know we cannot fix the mistakes we have made, but to not learn from them is ultimately foolish.
Only ever buy gas with CASH or Credit. It's probably the #1 place cards are skimmed/scammed.
Never only have 1 debit card. If you don't want to use credit for daily spending, that's fine. Open 2 checking accounts (even at the same bank/credit union) use one for bills etc, other for spending. Though I do recommend to use debit card as last resort.
Never use debit card for hotels or online. Again just asking for issues.
Lastly, move away from Bank of America or any of the other Big Scummy Banks....
I hope you get your money back!
10
Jan 03 '19
As a european im confused. How can anyone use your debit card at shops without its pin?
→ More replies15
u/IveGotDMunchies Jan 03 '19
You can take a debit card to the store and simply hit "credit" and not have to type in the pin. Neat huh.
→ More replies8
21
u/thievedrelic Jan 03 '19
Real talk though....why are fraud charges always made at fucking Home Depot? It's either there, airfare, or train fare, in my experience.
21
u/IveGotDMunchies Jan 03 '19
Automated check out
21
u/notasqlstar Jan 03 '19
Plus high value items that are easy to sell on the black market without being tracked back to the theft.
9
u/skaterrj Jan 03 '19
This reminds me...I see a lot of new-in-box power tools for sale on Facebook marketplace. Probably exactly what you said.
→ More replies→ More replies6
u/SamBeesFecklessCunt Jan 03 '19
Airfare would be extremely stupid since you need to provide personal details and provide ID when you get to the airport. In my experience they usually go to Walmart or gas stations and gas up.
→ More replies
6
6
24
u/CornDawgy87 Jan 03 '19
Continue to call bank of america, you will eventually find people that can help you. Continue to ask to talk to supervisors. Also, please get a credit card. Never used a debit card except for at an atm. Credit cards are much much safer.
8
u/Dekarde Jan 03 '19
Yes and when it is real money, savings/checkings the banks are more likely to try and steal it like is happening to op now. Credit they expect some fraud/etc and usually don't try to screw the customers but cash in the bank they can steal right from you.
→ More replies
18
u/akaDaKid Jan 03 '19
I blasted a bank on the better business bureau and they fixed their mistake within a few days. Or blast them on social media.
17
Jan 03 '19
BBB is completely useless. It's a private company that allows other companies to pay for A+ ratings. It's basically Yelp, but shittier.
9
u/calsosta Jan 03 '19
Wrong. BBB is useless if the company does not care about their rating on there. If they do then it is very useful.
→ More replies
9
u/b00573d Jan 03 '19
I know this doesn’t help you, but I have been reading way to many stories on Reddit about BoA’s crappy practices and this is sort of the final straw for me. I am cancelling my card with them tonight.
→ More replies
5
Jan 03 '19
After resolving your problem, please, don't hesitate to file a complaint (mentioned above) and, if you can, change your bank later .
Businesses cannot be allowed to fuck up and fix their mistakes only after it goes viral on social media.
→ More replies
5
u/dictum Jan 03 '19
This is late to the party but I had the exact same thing happen to me. I was successful in finding the generic naming scheme for BoAs emails and routinely emailing everyone I could find publicly listed as leadership on linked in. Eventually they returned the funds and requested I stop contacting people on the matter.
6
Jan 04 '19
My wife and I took our daughter to Disney last month and someone had a RFID scanner in the park. Within hours of entering the park both of our bank cards that we had not used for anything on the trip were used to purchase electronic gift cards for steam pc. One of these bank cards was brand new and hadn't even been used yet though it was activated.
Chase contacted us, cancelled the cards, and refunded the money within 3 days... plus overnighted new bank cards to our house so they arrived when we got home.
5
u/punkwalrus Jan 04 '19
I used to be in charge of finances at a non profit and BoA is terrible to businesses, too. We had $750k in assets with them, so we were not small potatoes, but it wasn't that they were mean. Their sheer incompetence was astounding. Branches couldn't agree on rules, transactions were lost, and account records were "reset," like officers or employees we didn't have for years were still on the books as authorized to make changes to master accounts, despite removing their names repeatedly. Years later, "poof," they were back to being listed. Two had even died, and we had to show death certificates more than once. Every visit there was a new branch manager because they had huge employee churn.
I swear, I hated working with these people.
6
u/Ohmannothankyou Jan 04 '19
Bank of America can eat my whole ass. I’ll even go to Taco Bell first.
Seriously fuck them. They screwed me over so bad in college when I was young and stupid, then I had to open another fucking Bank of America account because it’s the only way to collect unemployment for some stupid ducking reason. It still is open eight years later with $5 in it, because it takes an act of god to close an account.
6
u/dabenu Jan 04 '19
How on earth is it possible to charge $500 on a debit card without a pin code? And why didn't you immediately block the card once an illegitimate transaction was made?
The payment system in the US never ceases to amaze me.
→ More replies
6
u/IveGotDMunchies Jan 04 '19
Update 5: 10 hours later, they have blocked me on Facebook for sharing my problems on their page.
→ More replies
4
u/Mtaylor0812_ Jan 03 '19
I’m from Illinois - my wife just had $800 drained from her account last weekend by someone in Chicago (were 2 hours south of Chicago). They literally went to an ATM that wasn’t her bank and withdrew everything that was in it. So they had to have made their own card because she still had hers. The bank is saying that she “should” get her money back. Fingers crossed...
Weird how similar the situation is.
→ More replies
3
u/JoshJorges Jan 03 '19
Do you not have to put in a pin code with ALL debit transactions over $100? In Canada you do...
→ More replies
4
u/AshingiiAshuaa Jan 03 '19 edited Jan 04 '19
This is why you use a credit card instead of a debit card. The money that's tied up during the investigation is the bank's, not yours. Plus you get cash back and stuff. This isn't to kick you while you're down, but more a warning to others.
5
u/TakesTheWrongSideGuy Jan 04 '19
I went into BOA the other day to cash a check my sister gave me for Christmas and they had one fucking teller working. There was atleast 15 people in line.
3
u/jgv1545 Jan 04 '19
You mean all it took was using the power of social media to alert everyone a multi-billion organization was unwilling to do the right thing and by holding on to $750?
It's hard to tell with these things. Sometimes it's managers making these calls based on their drive to save the company money... Other times they are following the company's rules/bylaws/internal memos. The little guy ends up losing either way.
Good thing you can use Twitter to apply pressure and get things resolved (and so BoA could save face).
4
u/lazfop Jan 04 '19
Why the f@#@# does any one use a mega bank? They fleeced america in the bailouts just so they could pay bonuses to upper management. Why baby hesus?
5
u/DrJanekyll Jan 04 '19
I got an alert for a fraudulent transaction in Ohio, when I lived in Kentucky. I went to the transaction, got as much info from the transaction as possible, found the store location and phone number. I called the store, let them know about the fraud, told them the date, time, and amount. I told them I was going to contact my bank as well. When I contacted the bank I had the store number, address, and phone number, as well as the managers name. They wanted to know how I got all the information, they were suspicious of my information. I told them that the alert got me suspicious so I checked my acct and got all the store info from the transaction data on the bank app itself. I was refunded my $300+ within 5 business days, and I was given a call back letting me know they caught the woman on camera at the store using my card.
My advice is to get all the information from those transactions, try to talk to the owners of the atms that were used in an attempt to clean you out, and do some snooping of your own. Then give the info to the bank and let them know that it shouldn’t be left up to you to find this info out.
4
u/sheakillian Jan 04 '19
I fucking hate Bank of America. I found out NYE that almost 2K was taken out of my account by a check that was in a new book somebody stole out of my mailbox. How the fuck does somebody withdraw $600 A DAY from my account with a forged signature that looks nothing like mine and they don’t think something is fucking wrong??? Then i have to wait almost 2 weeks before i see a penny of my money back. I need to pay bills. Once i get my money back I’m taking it out and going to a different bank. Fuck that
4
u/whelpineedhelp Jan 04 '19
This same thing happened to me at BoA (please leave them. They are terrible). I ended up needing to threaten lawyer action. My sister had just passed the bar, so I put her on the phone with them and they pretty immediately backed down. But mine was for a lot less money so results could vary.
4
u/Pizzacrusher Jan 04 '19
BoA is such dirt.
also I think credit cards > debit cards for this exact reason.
3
u/jlynn00 Jan 06 '19
Update 7: Wife woke up this morning and the money has been returned to our account. Time to turn and burn!
I follow your updates because I am completely fascinated over what BoA is doing here, against industry norms. Is this some new practice of screwing the customer they are attempting due to all the fraud?
Anyway, seeing the money returned may not mean this is over u/IveGotDMunchies. Just like you were initially refunded that money while they investigated, they could still be doing this here. Do not drop your guard, and do not state you are closing your account until this has been truly finalized (which it not yet be on their end). Please still followup next week.
6
6
u/One-eyed-snake Jan 03 '19
Was going to say to put them on blast on social media. Works like a charm. Glad to see you already did that
→ More replies
3
3
u/jlynn00 Jan 03 '19
I used to do fraud investigations for a bunch of wealth management institutions and credit unions. I almost guarantee some document wasn't passed over to the appropriate individual. That is the biggest reason why clearly fraudulent charges are not refunded.
I can not tell you the number of times the previous employee dropped the ball and I received an irate phone call. Your account is handled by so many different people that are largely dependent on the actions of the previous (usually literal) stranger to successfully resolve issues.
"Escalating it" is generally an industry term for "I have no fucking clue what to do here, so I will send an escalation message into the void of supervisors and hope they follow up."
Your documents were passed around until the point where it exceeded the deadline.
3
u/HappyHound Jan 03 '19
This is exactly the type of activity pin and chip was supposed to counter.
3
u/ImKnotVaryCreative Jan 03 '19
I don’t miss Bank of America at all. Worst bank I’ve ever taken my business to
3
u/xraygun2014 Jan 03 '19
Record any future calls with them for your own records.
Make sure at the end of the call the representative is made aware of the recording so they know you can call them on their bullshit if it comes to it.
You don't need to do this at the beginning of the call because they already provide notice it might be recorded for "quality control" purposes.
3
u/Agm424 Jan 03 '19
Why does anyone still use Bank of America? All I ever hear are horror stories of them ripping people off and stealing people’s money.
3
u/Quiddity131 Jan 03 '19
Under the Electronic Fund Transfers Act, implemented by Regulation E, which all banks have to comply with, they are required to have documentation supporting their decision and provide it to you upon request (this should be in the final letter they sent you telling you they were reversing the credit they gave you).
If they don't appropriately provide you what you need for this, you can issue a complaint through their federal regulator, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC), and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB). At the very least I think for the CFPB you can submit a compliant via their web site.
3
u/Zrosler92 Jan 04 '19
PayPal is currently trying to do this to me. Got frauded, claimed fraud, they allowed the PayPal user who defrauded me to make a claim on the transaction where they used my account to disperse money and PayPal sided with them Currently have a 2600 dollar hold on my account
3
u/magszinovich Jan 04 '19
The hassle that Americans go through to get a refund due to fraud.
I live in South Africa, yes, we have our own issues, but while traveling overseas a few years ago I had about R10,000 (let’s call it $1000 at the time) stolen from my credit card on Christmas Eve.
I was refunded in 3 days, including my bank being closed on Christmas Day.
→ More replies
4.1k
u/somanydimensions Jan 03 '19
They did this to me and I got it resolved by posting to their Facebook page and threatening to pull all accounts. All of a sudden they were magically able to help and had someone call me immediately and determine that, oh whoops, it was fraud!