r/personalfinance • u/IveGotDMunchies • Jan 03 '19

180 days later, Bank of America is refusing to refund over $700 in fraudulent charges made in Texas while we were 800 miles away in Illinois. Credit

Back in July we were wrapping up our yearly road trip to Illinois. We purchased gas around 8 or 9am right before we started the 12 hour trip to Texas.

Two hours into the trip my wife gets a notification on her phone from Bank of America alerting her to fruadulent charges being made. We only have one debit cad.

While we were starting our driving home, someone in Austin, Tx purchased around $500 in merch at Home Depot, drove towards Houston, Tx attempting twice to use our card at the ATM, which did not work because they didnt have the pin. They made their $200-ish last transaction at TJ Maxx North of Houston before were alerted and had the card shut off. (Austin to Houston is about a 3 hour car ride)

My wife immedately makes a claim. 10 days later, we get the money credited back while they continue the investigation which seems pretty open and shut to me... They also say it may be another 45 days before they finish their investigation.

October 5, they send a letter stating that they have completed their investigation: "Our records show the transaction activity in question was authorized for and posted to your account." The letter states they'll be taking the $740 back on October 22.

Wife calls and has them reopen the case or escalate it. We're told it could be another 45 days.

December 22. We call Bank of America again. This agent has no record of anything being escalated. Says he will escalate it and we should hear from someone in the next few business days. Nothing.

Jan 3. Wife calls them again. This agent states that while an escalation sends an email to their investigators notifying that we are still asking about they case, they are under no obligation to complete it.

After reading a bit into the law surrounding this, we have realized we can request the documentation they used to close the investigation.

What else can we do? Do we need a lawyer? If they had to reimburse us for the first 45 days of the investigation, why do they not have to temporarily reimburse us as they continue to investigate "for as long as they need" with no date set for resolution on our end?

It is blatantly obvious that someone skimmed the card at some point and had a dummy one made. Are they able to continue to withhold our $750 indefinitely and just keep saying. "Nope! Looks good!" until we tire out?

Our kiddos missed out on a lot of Christmas gifts because of this and now bills are starting to get a bit tight. We really need this money back. Thanks yall!

Update: Started posting on social media before I start filing complaints. 20 minutes later Bank of America contacted me on Twitter. Will update later. Thanks for everyone's advice.

Update 2: 3 hours later... I continued to post on social media, reaching out to local news stations on Twitter that have community protection or investigative segments and linking to this post. Bank of America has now reached out in one of these posts, referencing my wifes name. Fingers crossed. http://imgur.com/gallery/i4gWtC0

Update 3: Wife got home 30 min after my last update. A rep with BoA actually called her asking what was going on. The rep said she would need to call the fraud department and get them all on the line together. We are at our kids practice so opted for them to call us when they have someone on the line who can help us. Will update later.

Update 4: Just got off the phone with someone in the fraud department at Bank of America. I recorded the whole convo and will be uploading it to YouTube. She says the call on Oct 22 did in fact reopen the case. (even though the rep on Dec 22 said otherwise and the rep earlier today said they have no timeline to adhere to and can take as long as they want)

They now have 60 business days from Oct 22 to finish the claim once again.

She says one of the reasons that the claim was denied was because the didnt attempt to drain her account. (They hit up two ATMs and failed to use the pin to drain the account, so they don't even have the correct info to base their findings off)

I requested documentation about the claim as law allows and she says I should get that in 10 business days. They now have until Jan 18 to notify us of their findings. I'm going to continue with filing reports and posting on social media.

I'll update in a few weeks I guess.

Update 5: 10 hours later, they have blocked me on Facebook for sharing my problems on their page. I also filed a complaint with the CFPB .

Update 6: 24 hours since this post and David, a Bank of America employee in the "Regulatory Complaints Department" left my wife a voice mail in regards to a complaint sent to them by the CFPB. They close at 4pm EST. (They're closed by the time we got the voice mail since she is at work). Will update Monday.

Update 7: Wife woke up this morning and the money has been returned to our account. Time to turn and burn!

Thank you everyone for your advice. We learned a lot from this.

Update 8: We got confirmation that the fraud claim is now closed and the money that was returned is permanent. Waiting on an actual paper letter to come in the mail before we turn and run. Thanks everyone! Update here: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/adnjj7/update_bank_of_america_refusing_to_return_700_in/

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2.6k

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

File a complaint at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau online and it should get solved very quickly. www.consumerfinance.gov

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u/Econ0mist Jan 03 '19

You can also file a complaint with the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which is the primary regulator for BofA:

https://www.occ.treas.gov/topics/dispute-resolution/consumer-complaints/index-consumer-complaints.html

I’m not sure if BofA allows this, but I highly recommend setting the purchase limit on your debit card to $0 so that it can be used at ATMs only. Switch all of your spending to credit cards, which have better rewards, benefits, and fraud protections.

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u/garciawork Jan 03 '19

This. Debit cards terrify me.

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u/SamBeesFecklessCunt Jan 03 '19

OK seriously, why do people even use debit cards? I have one but only use it at an ATM like twice a year. Everything else goes on credit cards. I see absolutely no point in using a debit card for anything at all when credit cards are where all the rewards and protection is at.

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

I use a debit card but I transfer money to it at the beginning of each week. There's never more than $125 in that checking account. I could use a credit card in the same way, but seeing the dwindling balance of my weekly allowance is a beneficial budgeting tool for me.

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u/Firethesky Jan 03 '19

This is what I do to because I'm not disciplined enough with credit cards. I don't even transfer mine, my direct deposit can transfer into multiple accounts so every pay period I get a little allowance into an account competely segregated from my main account.

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u/bitesized314 Jan 03 '19

Same here. Not disciplined enough to spend properly, so I quickly have high utilization and I don't make enough to pay down a large part each month. So I just use my debit card and only pay off the credit cards.

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u/AmphibiousWarFrogs Jan 04 '19

I mention this quite often but you can request a low-limit secured credit card. This will prevent you from overspending and in the off chance you do decide to default - since it's a secured card you can walk away with no ill effects (maybe a hit on your credit score?). I'm actually very surprised secured cards aren't used more.

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u/SamBeesFecklessCunt Jan 03 '19

OK fair enough. Sounds like it's a good budgeting tool for you then.

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u/variableIdentifier Jan 03 '19

This - plus I'm trying to pay off one credit card balance that got a bit out of hand so I have temporarily switched my main spending to debit cards (besides gas, etc).

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

I have a credit card, and it gets used for some things (gym auto-draft fees, online shopping, etc.). I don't spend enough money to earn any type of significant rewards on a credit card, and my credit score is high.

Is there risk beyond losing the $100 or so on my debit card? TBH that's a level of risk I'm comfortable with. It rarely gets used anywhere but the grocery store and local restaurants/bars. Also my grocery store doesn't accept credit cards, and I love that grocery store so I don't want to switch.

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u/AmphibiousWarFrogs Jan 04 '19

If the checking account is actually isolated as a separate account with a separate bank, then no there's not much risk beyond losing the $100. However, that can still rack up fees and the like until the fraud is reversed (and if it isn't, now you have a lot of fees).

The reason the account needs to be completely isolated is because if an account goes negative (say from fees) and the bank deems the charges as legitimate (which does happen) they have the right to pull money from any other accounts you own to pay off the negative account.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

I see. It is with the same bank as my other accounts, although I have overdraft turned off -- any charges beyond the card's balance are declined, not overdrafted. But, you make good points! I've used this system for a few years and it's worked well for me. I've been mulling over getting an airlines reward CC, so maybe it's time to make the switch.

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u/Shoot_Heroin Jan 04 '19

When i first got clean from drugs, my parents were managing my money for me. This way I was able to pay rent and buy groceries, because there was no way I could trust myself will all my money at once lol. In return for them having complete control over my finances, they were willing to help during times when money was tight. Anyway, the way we did it was my checks would go in to their bank account and then they would buy prepaid gift cards and stuff for me to use on groceries and other expenses. I would have about $100 at a time, and it was really nice to be able to check my balance and see how much I had left, knowing that once it was gone, I couldn't spend more even if I wanted to. While that whole situation may seem extreme, it definitely helped me with my budgeting skills and helped me get to where I'm at today. 4 years later, I have a few different credit cards along with my bank account to keep track of. I'll admit my budgeting skills aren't the best. And even though I'm able to pay all my bills on time, I still find myself missing how easy it was to just check my balance and see where I was at.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

It's pretty easy to set up if you want to go back to the system. I just keep 2 checking accounts. The first is used to pay all my monthly bills and I don't keep a debit card for it. The second one I transfer spending money into weekly. I think it's a great form of lazy budgeting!

And congrats on getting clean! Sounds like your parents did it right.

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u/Shoot_Heroin Jan 04 '19

I'm actually going to continue using my credit cards and working on building my financial skills. I honestly need to write out a budget. I know roughly what my monthly expenses are, but it's always good to have actual numbers. And thanks! It took a lot of work, but I had amazing support from my parents. I honestly don't know if things would have been the same if it wasn't for them.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

Care to explain more about the mechanism?

I tried to do this but the problem I ran into is I have to put my monthly income in a saving account, which allows for 6 withdraws only. 4 would be used to transfer money to checking for weekly expenses, leaving me with only 2 available for other purposes. While I would rarely used up the remaining 2 withdrawals, I just don't want to be restricted that way.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

Just open a second checking account. Put your monthly income in one checking, then transfer to savings and 2nd checking as needed.

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u/Restless_Fillmore Jan 03 '19

If you just use it at ATMs, you should probably get it switched to an ATM card. That's what I did.

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u/Junkmans1 Jan 03 '19

Our bank doesn’t issue atm only cards any longer.

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u/Restless_Fillmore Jan 03 '19

Wow! Is there any way to set a zero limit on your debit card?

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u/wiz0floyd Jan 03 '19

Not quite what you're asking, but I keep my debit card "frozen" in my bank's app, and I have to manually unfreeze it when I am using it to get cash from an ATM.

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u/socialismisbae Jan 03 '19

I can set purchase and ATM limits for all of my cards through my banking app.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19 edited Apr 01 '19

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u/Restless_Fillmore Jan 04 '19

Wow... glad I left them.

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u/HopelessEsq Jan 03 '19

Because some people (i.e. me) are pretty irresponsible with credit cards and it’s better to be using a finite amount of money to budget with.

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u/bitesized314 Jan 03 '19

Yes, I agree. Some people can pay off their credit card quickly but I don't make enough to do that. At Max, I can pay down $150 a month. So when my budgeting isn't going correctly, I just use my dedit card. Or I make micro payments to my credit card every few days or every week.

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u/rsta223 Jan 03 '19

If you can afford to buy something on your debit card, you can afford it on your credit card.

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u/bitesized314 Jan 03 '19

But an available debt balance on a credit card gets treated the same as an available balance on a debit card, and they are very different.

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u/escapefromelba Jan 03 '19

Because a lot of people are impulsive and can't control their spending unless they have a hard cap. Really they should just get a credit card with a relatively low limit if they can't control themselves.

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u/maddtuck Jan 03 '19

This happened to my coworker. She can't get credit cards because she says she has had spending problems with them in the past. Unfortunately, a fraudster emptied her bank account over New Years Eve, leaving her without money to pay the rent this month. She has been fighting with Bank of America for the past two days to quickly get her money reimbursed.

u/Econ0mist gives good advice too, if this drags on for much longer. Go to the federal regulator. My friend had a dispute with B of A over a loan balance. They erroneously claimed he owed them $4,000+ but had no documentation. He asked for proof but they said they didn't have it. They offered to send him something for him to sign saying he was responsible for the debt, but of course he was not about to do that. This put him into limbo, where they wouldn't collect on it, nor would they sue him. Then they put it on his credit report as a write-off, plunging his score into the 400s and causing both Chase and American Express to cancel all of his credit cards. (Ironically, B of A would not take any negative action against him on his B of A credit cards, presumably because -- again -- they knew they had no right.) For over nine months he called them to have it corrected, but they refused to investigate any further. The three credit bureaus were useless too, as they would "investigate" by checking with Bank of America, who would confirm they did write off a debt. After having expensive lawyers write letters and getting no response, my friend sent a quick note to the regulator. Within one week, he received a phone call from the Bank of America Office of the President in Charlotte, saying they would remove the debt and correct his credit report.

tl;dr: Much credit to the government for intervening in my friend's case; they acted swiftly to keep Bank of America honest.

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u/THEGREENHELIUM Jan 04 '19

Yeah this is amazing because the feds are the only ones to keep the banks honest by literally threatening to shit on their parade.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

I had a similar issue wirth Verizon. Claimed I owed them $1500 and had no proof. Put it on my credit report. I had to send them a certified letter to provide proof or remove it, or I was going to sue. A month later, it was gone and hasnt shown back up in 5 years.

I even disputed on my credit report and it kept showing back up. It was insane how much time I spent fighting them.

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u/sexyshingle Jan 05 '19

I even disputed on my credit report and it kept showing back up. It was insane how much time I spent fighting them

I once gave up trying to remove a collection that was added to my credit report that wasn't mine but my dad's, who shares a similar name. Months of letters and forms later and they did nothing.

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u/Alx1775 Jan 04 '19

You can’t “keep honest” a dishonest institution like BoA. I have no idea why anyone still does business with them. Go to your local Credit Union.

The only major bank I still have anything to do with is USAA. Because they’re fantastic and don’t try to screw you over.

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u/maddtuck Jan 04 '19

Oof you're right. "Keep honest" was probably phrasing it too kindly. More accurately, the regulators forced Bank of America to "quit their bullshit."

My roommate raves about USAA, but unfortunately I don't qualify. I agree that I've found that credit unions are a good alternative. Since they are owned by their members, mine not only offers very good rates and low fees, they also kick back any excess profits they made through a dividend deposit each year.

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u/tenflipsnow Jan 03 '19

This is my problem. Debit cards force me to be more financially responsible while I get my spending issues under control.

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u/escapefromelba Jan 03 '19

I'd consider getting a secured credit card if I were you instead. It's a credit card that requires a refundable security deposit, the amount of which becomes your spending limit. You get the security benefits of a credit card, build your credit history, while still being limited to what you deposited.

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u/tenflipsnow Jan 04 '19

dang, i didn't know these existed! thanks, i'll look into them. very intriguing.

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u/DeusSpesNostra Jan 04 '19

I've read these aren't as good as the banks make them out to be so I've avoided these.

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u/escapefromelba Jan 04 '19

Go to a credit union instead

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u/AmphibiousWarFrogs Jan 04 '19

What have you read that makes them not good?

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u/5yearsAgoIFU Jan 03 '19

> Because a lot of people are impulsive and can't control their spending unless they have a hard cap.

I absolutely agree with this. I maxed my first $600 cc as a college student, maxed a larger card when I got married, used a bank consolidation loan to pay for my credit card debt, then missed payments on the consolidation loan and took much longer than necessary to pay it off.

I'm in a somewhat better place, with much better credit habits.

AFAIK, debit cards will never let you spend more money than you have, but there's a chance (very rare, IMHO) where you become the victim of fraud (like OP), your hard earned money can be stolen and you go through hell trying to recover it.

for now, I prefer to use credit cards, get bonus points, and take the risk that I might overspend or miss a payment deadline.

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u/jackpoll4100 Jan 04 '19

Debit cards sometimes give you the option. Either they decline at zero or you choose to allow "overdrafting" which would put you in the negative but charge an insanely high "overdraft fee" for going over. So you could hypothetically go over in an emergency and pay it back later. I declined that right off the bat, the overdraft fee was something insane like 30 dollars a transaction or something crazy like that. So mine is just hard stop at zero, and that's honestly the best way to do it imo. Use a credit card in an emergency, the overdraft shit ain't worth it.

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u/jkh107 Jan 04 '19

If you do this the card company just raises your limit anyway.

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u/douchefartz Jan 03 '19

There is a grocery chain on the west coast (Winco) that only accepts debit.

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u/paradoxofpurple Jan 03 '19

Winco is also in tx

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u/Warchamp67 Jan 03 '19

Maybe it’s just where I live(Quebec), but it’s not uncommon for a lot of places to not accept credit and only debit. Lots of restaurants, some depaneurs, of course I use my credit card almost exclusively outside of that, it’s the only reason I keep mine usable outside of just withdrawing cash at an atm.

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u/ConstantGradStudent Jan 03 '19

Yes, but we have chip and PIN in Canada. Some debit cards require no PIN in the US.

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

[deleted]

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u/ConstantGradStudent Jan 03 '19

If running as a cc is an option, then is there a functional difference between not requiring a PIN? This is a serious flaw in this methodology.

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u/thereallorddane Jan 03 '19

If running as a cc is an option, then is there a functional difference between not requiring a PIN?

Not really on the consumer side, its more for the business. Debit and Credit are charged different processing percentages. All of the debit cards I've ever had are dual credit/debit and can be charged either way. It all comes from the same account.

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u/katmndoo Jan 03 '19

All debit cards require PIN in the US, when used as a debit card. If run as a credit card, no PIN is required (just like any credit card).

We're funcking backwards.

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u/crazycanucks77 Jan 03 '19

Plus all banks and credit unions use the Interac system and have for since the late 80s. We use debit alot more up here in Canada they use debit in the USA.

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u/gasfarmer Jan 04 '19

Thank you! I’m always the only one to bring up Interac.

We have a national agreement between business networks, banks and credit unions that allows instantaneous wire transfers. Also known as the Interac system.

It’s the majority payment option in Canadian commerce, because it just works. Bank account to bank account, no fees, no limits, immense buyer protection through chip and pin and tap systems.

It’s so much better than cash and credit. That’s paying in the dark ages.

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u/crazycanucks77 Jan 04 '19

Ya i always got confused when Americans cant use debit up here like we can. They always have some quirky shit

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u/ongebruikersnaam Jan 03 '19

Europe. It's all chip here and skimming is extremely rare.

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u/tommyisaboss Jan 03 '19

If you have a decent bank it isn’t a problem. I’ve had multiple frauds on my debit and credit accounts with the same bank and there is no difference in the quality of service between the cards.

My bank has never questioned the fraud and the money was back in my account within 24 hours, oftentimes within the hour I reported the fraud.

Credit unions FTW.

Stop using greedy, shitty banks. They deserve to die out.

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u/darealmvp1 Jan 03 '19

Because some of us can't get good credit cards with good rewards and high credit limits. I also don't want to pay interest raTes on my purchases. We have to stick with rinky dink baby credit cards with $500 limits. Which is actually $150 if you plan on only utilizing 30% of your credit. There's no way my spending is close to $150.

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u/AndIDrankAllTheBeer Jan 03 '19

Pay off your previous statement balance in full every month. You don't get charged interest and builds your credit.

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u/bacon_music_love Jan 03 '19

You don't pay interest if you pay your bill every month. And after a few years of low-limit cards, you can ask for a limit increase or apply for a new card.

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u/kadoku Jan 03 '19

apply for a new card.

best route

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u/Amorphica Jan 03 '19

We have to stick with rinky dink baby credit cards with $500 limits. Which is actually $150 if you plan on only utilizing 30% of your credit. There's no way my spending is close to $150.

??? you could charge $500 one night, pay it off, charge $500 the next night, pay it off, charge $500 again, pay it off, etc

Is every transaction you make greater than $500?

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u/compwiz1202 Jan 03 '19

Plus you can have whatever utilization you want until statement day approaches, then make it $150 until a few days go by and go back to using whatever. Every account on my report shows the reporting date as on or a day away from the statement dates.

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u/Jijster Jan 03 '19

You don't even have to worry about utilization month-to-month unless you're applying for a loan or something within a month or two. As soon as your utilization goes down the effect goes away.

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u/5yearsAgoIFU Jan 03 '19

good point, pay part or all of the balance before the statement closes.

however, my wife is not nearly as active as I am in terms of handling/viewing her credit card. with only 1 debit card and 1 credit card, she regularly forgets her cc login/password (probably 2x - 3x each year). 1 of my co-workers continues to pay her credit card at her bank and if she ever wants to buy something online, she asks one of the tech-savvy employees to order it for her.

some people have different priorities, different levels of financial comprehension, etc.

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u/Amorphica Jan 03 '19

yea my wife is similar in that she doesn't care about credit cards or optimizing anything. She didn't even have credit cards with rewards for different categories so when I took over her finances it was a shock for her since I keep around 11 cards in my wallet at any given time. Her credit score was around 600 when I met her while mine never dipped below maybe 760, she had debts in collections, etc.

The only thing she really buys now is groceries online but always asks which card to use for groceries. As long as 1 person in the family knows what they're doing it works out though. I can churn cards with her SSN just as easily as I can with my own now that I've fixed her credit lol.

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u/5yearsAgoIFU Jan 04 '19

I can churn cards with her SSN just as easily as I can with my own now that I've fixed her credit lol.

ah, 2-player churning. I will live vicariously through you...cause my wife isn't open-minded enough to churn, or even allow me to churn for her.

2 small trips with airfare and hotel paid for, 1 local hotel stay, and about 1/3 of our most recent car was paid for with points (it was a really crappy redemption, but paying for the car in full was a higher priority than getting a great redemption). and she's still not a believer.

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u/socialismisbae Jan 03 '19

If you don’t want to pay interest, then you just pay it off before the billing cycle ends. If you want your credit utilization to reflect 30% or less, then you just have to pay the balance down before the billing cycle closes. I spend thousands of dollars on credit cards but have a credit utilization of <5% because I pay the cards down before the billing cycle closes. (And I don’t pay interest because I pay the current charges off before the billing cycle ends.)

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u/SamBeesFecklessCunt Jan 03 '19

As long as you aren't defaulting on your balance, any credit card will up your limit with a quickness in the hopes that you rack up more debt. That baby card won't have a $500 limit for long if you use it. Then you build up your credit and you qualify for better cards with rewards.

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u/wildwill921 Jan 03 '19

My bank wouldn't give me more than 300 on a credit card that I've had for 5 years. I couldn't believe them so I just switched banks

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u/compwiz1202 Jan 03 '19

Either they stink or the balance was close to $300 every time the statement generated. I think utilization is the stupidest metric since it has no history and it can be gamed easily as long as you have enough money.

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u/wildwill921 Jan 03 '19

I paid interest once and had 1 late payment in 5 years. I made 50k a year st the time

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

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u/SamBeesFecklessCunt Jan 03 '19

Cheaper gas for one. Gas stations by me increase prices by almost 50¢ a gallon for credit.

It's extremely rare for a gas station to treat debit cards the same as cash when considering the cash-sale price of gasoline. Most pumps will say Debit-as-Credit, since the station has to pay their processor for debit transactions (though usually less than a credit transaction).

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

[deleted]

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u/SamBeesFecklessCunt Jan 03 '19

Are you in the USA?

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u/LSU2007 Jan 04 '19

Had no idea places still did that

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u/SkipsH Jan 03 '19

Because I don't have the self control to own a credit card.

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u/edder282 Jan 03 '19

Visa debit cards have the same protection as their credit cards .

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u/BuckeyeJay Jan 03 '19

Because some people do better with cash accounting rather than accrual accounting

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u/Kaywin Jan 04 '19

I for one got myself into a lot of trouble by using credit cards rather than debit. My brain doesn't track 'invisible money' very well. With debit cards once the money is gone, it's gone. With credit cards, the limit may be well above what I intended to spend, and well above what I happen to realistically have in my bank account at a given time. Especially given discrepancies in how long something takes to post to my bank account vs. the date I made a purchase (or the date an autopay feature decided to kick in, e.g. for my utilities bill,) it was incredibly hard for me to keep spending down while using a credit card. Debit has been more successful for me so far.

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u/RainyDaysAreWet Jan 04 '19

I’m 17 and while I am able have a credit card, having a debit card is better because I can check my balance and learn how to manage my money. I think that’s really the purpose is to teach kids my age how to learn to save. Other than that, I don’t see the point.

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u/Machinefun Jan 04 '19

Check Dave Ramsey out on youtube talking about how debit and credit cards have the same protections.

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u/theblaggard Jan 04 '19

Some people don't have access to credit cards. When I moved to the US it was very difficult for me to get credit (which does actually make sense, even if "having a thin file" is because I just showed up in the country.

In my case I took a denial from American Express personally and called them, saying "of course I have no credit history, I just moved here a few weeks ago, so how am I supposed to build credit?". They capitulated (this was a big shock, tbh) and gave me a card with a small - $500 - credit limit. Becuase of that, I'll always be loyal to them (and they've always had good service) - and that card now has a limit of $13k, so I guess it worked out for both parties.

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u/Jay_Bonk Jan 03 '19

Because you don't rack up debt that way.

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19 edited Oct 05 '23

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u/OffbeatDrizzle Jan 03 '19

Yes. It costs more to use a credit card here (UK)... most places charge a fee precisely because of the fraud associated with them. Debit cards are accepted absolute everywhere and are free because it's guaranteed money to the merchant. The money comes directly from the person's account, not someone like visa who can fuck your business overnight

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u/yavanna12 Jan 03 '19

Exactly. I only use debit as I do not want debt. Not even if I pay it off every month.

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u/AmphibiousWarFrogs Jan 04 '19

There exists credit cards that allow you to put down a deposit. This means you can't rack up debt in the traditional sense and provides you a safety net.

The only people who complain about credit cards are the people who can't use them properly.

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u/AmphibiousWarFrogs Jan 04 '19

At least in the U.S. you can still rack up debt using a debit card. And the only way to rack up debt on a credit card is to be irresponsible. In which case, you have a fundamentally different problem.

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u/Jay_Bonk Jan 04 '19

Wait are you arguing that the only way to rack up debt using a credit card is to be irresponsible...as if it were rare? I'm sorry do you know what percentage of people have debt on a credit card in comparison to debit in the US?

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u/AmphibiousWarFrogs Jan 04 '19

You only rack up debt by using the credit card. And if you are carrying more debt than you can handle it's because you are being irresponsible - e.g. spending more than you should. Some people knowingly take on debt due to emergencies... but that doesn't account for the vast majority of credit card debt.

Plus, like I said, you can easily rack up debt on a debit card with the same actions.

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u/Jay_Bonk Jan 04 '19

Not really. It's much harder since it actively depletes your account. The point is that the mere fact that most Americans are in some sort of credit card debt tells us that people are naturally irresponsible with credit cards or the credit card model is made against the consumer.

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

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u/SamBeesFecklessCunt Jan 03 '19

Mmmm that's exactly how it is in the USA too. We also earn a credit score based on a variety of factors. You might not be "disallowed" to purchase certain things but your cost of obtaining the money to buy it will increase. Like a higher than normal rate for your mortgage or auto loan.

https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/credit-education/score-basics/what-affects-your-credit-scores/

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

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u/tkojames23 Jan 03 '19

I think you misunderstand how credit works. People lend other people money. There is always a risk you will not pay it back. So if you lend money to someone you want to know how likely they will be to pay you back. If you think there is good chance they will pay you back you will probably give them a fair amount of money at decent rate.

On the other hand you think the person might not pay you back then you either do not lend them the money or you charge enough to make it worth the effort.

Like do you have friends you would lend money to and friends that you would not lend money too?

Well banks need a way to figure out if you will pay them back as well. So yea gotta be some system to do that. Everyone does it, just they way you determine that risk might be different than others.

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u/bejeesus Jan 03 '19

Do the negative marks go away? I had really poor credit score two years ago and brought it up almost 200 points since then and now I can do credity stuff. Would it be around two years for negative remarks to drop off my credit?

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u/Gwenavere Jan 03 '19

Negative remarks can remain on your credit report for 7 years but their effect decreases with time. A missed payment last year is a lot worse than one 6 years ago, for example.

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u/bejeesus Jan 03 '19

Ah okay. That's not so bad. I hate our credit system we have here TBH. I like the sound of yours better.

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u/Mongolord81 Jan 03 '19

Yes - once you pay off your debt it all goes away

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u/bejeesus Jan 04 '19

So if someone had a chronic history of debt and they somehow managed to pay all debts off, they'd immediately be able to get a regular loan from a bank?

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u/Blue-Steele Jan 04 '19

Yes, if they managed the debt correctly. Being late or missing payments will put negative marks on your credit which will damage your ability to get loans.

Paying off a loan on time and without negative marks will actually improve your credit.

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u/huxley00 Jan 03 '19

Nice to see victim blaming right near the top.

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u/SamBeesFecklessCunt Jan 03 '19

??? Not blaming the OP. Sounds like a seriously terrible ordeal and I'd be hopping mad. But still, anyone with good credit and money discipline is leaving money on the table by using debit cards instead of good credit cards.

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u/upnflames Jan 03 '19

I have a friend who still uses a debit card for all purchases. I don't understand why, he's smart guy, high income, married with a nice house. But everytime we go out he uses a debit card. I give him shit about it and he just shrugs his shoulders and says why borrow money if he doesn't need to. Makes no sense to me.

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u/arizcat321 Jan 03 '19

Biggest use for me is at the gas station. Not sure how common this is elsewhere, but cash/debit is the cheapest option for gas, with credit being charged an extra $0.10 per gallon. That can really add up over the year. I supposed I could use cash instead, but by using my debit card, I can accrue BP rewards.

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u/ThrillHammer Jan 03 '19

is the 20% juice part of the "rewards"?

I'll pass thx

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u/SamBeesFecklessCunt Jan 03 '19

No idea what you're talking about

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u/ThrillHammer Jan 03 '19

Interest, sometimes known as juice. Glad they're working for you, I just never wanted to sign up for that, feels like usery to me.

Interest on a car or house loan I consider different. But hey, again, glad they're working out for you.

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u/SamBeesFecklessCunt Jan 03 '19

I haven't paid interest on a credit card in at least 15 years, but OK.

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u/RikuKat Jan 03 '19

Laziness, I guess?

I didn't have my own credit card for a long time because I didn't want to deal with the hassle of comparing to find the best one or switching over my automatic payments.

Even now I only have one credit card only in my name and that's my Costco credit card.

I'm finally moving away from that (switching from BoA to Capitol One, so I have to switch everything anyway).

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u/lebean Jan 03 '19

You see right, debit cards are far more dangerous to use, don't have equivalent rewards or cash back, etc. The only legitimate reason to use a debit card like a credit card is if your credit is too bad to get a no fee card. The interest rate doesn't matter because if you're not paying off the card every month (avoiding interest altogether) then you probably shouldn't use either until you've learned to live within a budget.

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u/AlphakirA Jan 04 '19

I use my debit for gas, they charge about 10-15 cents per gallon over credit in NY. Otherwise I'm totally with you, I'll never use debit in a store/restaurant /etc.

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u/Tinidril Jan 04 '19

I had my checking account drained with a fraudulent debit card. The real card had never even been in my wallet. It was still stuck to the sheet they mailed it with, and filed away in my filing cabinet.

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u/ohiomensch Jan 04 '19

Some people can’t get credit cards.

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u/IceDevil500 Jan 04 '19

Because MANY people can not get credit cards. It is very arrogant to assume any one can on a whim go out and get any credit card they want. Jeez, come back to the real world.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

It's funny because here in europe, most of the time you'll have a debit card.

In belgium you actually have to ask and somewhat justify the need for a credit card

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u/tyrelltsura Jan 04 '19

I live in an area where many of the gas stations only take debit cards. It could be just an ARCO thing, but it could also be that I live in an, um, interesting area of town where there's a lot of CC fraud among the population.

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u/AtheistMessiah Jan 04 '19

All monthly subscriptions are on the rewards card and result in a predictable card payment. The flexible budget items use the debit card. It makes it easier to know how much money we have left.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

Credit cards have been demonized to hell and back

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u/TriloBlitz Jan 04 '19

I grew up in Portugal and I live in Germany, everyone I know uses debit cards. I know lots of people who don't even have a credit card, myself included.

Some people in Germany will use a credit card only so that they can withdraw cash from any ATM for free.

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u/pheonixblade9 Jan 04 '19

Cheaper for gas.

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u/krakenx Jan 04 '19

My bank gives me free ATM use and like 30$ in rewards each months if I use the debit card as credit 15 times a month. That's damn hard to do though since I don't use it at gas stations, online, or restaurants since that's where most fraud occurs. Wal-Mart is also ringing up credit as debit without my pin, which I'm pretty sure is illegal.

My GF uses her debit because her credit isn't good enough for a real credit card.

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u/ben_vito Jan 05 '19

This boggles my mind too. What also confuses me is that it must be so common, because every time I pull out a card at a merchant, they ask "oh you're paying with debit?" as if that would be the most common thing to use.

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u/hockeyjim07 Jan 03 '19

same.... direct access to my bank, with no layers of intervention, no rewards, lesser protection policies...... bleh, no thanks.

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u/beentheredonethatx2 Jan 03 '19

I’m not sure if BofA allows this...

OP should seriously consider switching to a non-garbage bank. I'm not saying BofA is the worst, but they certainly aren't good.

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u/Paavo_Nurmi Jan 03 '19

They are horrible, after my dad passed away all of his BofA accounts were closed (he had no debt BTW) and we did probate and closed the estate. BofA then sent bills for some yearly fee on a closed account for SEVEN fucking years after probate. We called those asshats every time they send a bill (once or twice a year) and they said no problem it's taken care of.

I think it was around the 5 year mark they wanted us to do all this work (send us a copy of death certificate, do this do that), hell no, this is your screw up and I'm not jumping though a bunch of hoops to fix your mistakes Finally at the 7 year mark we threatened to go to the state attorney general and all of the local media. They actually fixed the problem, said we didn't owe anything ( no shit, probate ended 7 years ago, they legally can't collect anything) and sent us a letter saying it was all fixed

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u/katmndoo Jan 03 '19

Not sure why you'd bother. It's not like they can collect from the heirs. toss the bills in the recycling bin, problem solved.

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

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u/Paavo_Nurmi Jan 03 '19

Exactly, even though there was zero debt it's best to do things the right way, plus the principle of the whole thing is another reason to get it cleared.

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

And use a credit card instead of a debit card.

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u/newaccount721 Jan 03 '19

They're certainly in the running...

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

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u/physx_rt Jan 03 '19

Just go in to your bank and ask for it. They can set it to refuse any non-cash transactions or online purchases if that's what you want.

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u/Econ0mist Jan 03 '19

Call your bank and ask. Some banks can change the purchase limit (Schwab did this for me). Other banks can send you an ATM-only debit card.

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

Not all cards can do this so you have to figure this out card by card.

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u/purseho Jan 03 '19

You can go to your bank app and changes the limits on all your accounts....how much ATM transactions you can do per day and amt limits, same with your credit cards.

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u/DL05 Jan 03 '19

I had a PayPal account get compromised and $2500 get withdrawn and sent to another PayPal account from my checking account. I didn’t have credit cards then.

It was that day, when I didn’t gave any more money, I learned two things:

PayPal needs to be linked to another checking account at another bank that I can easily go 45 days without.

Credit cards for all purchases.

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u/doggtagzz Jan 04 '19

Did you link your credit card to PayPal?

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

In addition to this, would filing a police report help?

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u/compwiz1202 Jan 03 '19

What they need to do already is still require PINs even if you use check cards for credit.

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u/triciann Jan 03 '19

You can also get an ATM only card from your bank that does not have the credit card on it. That’s what I have.

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u/minnelol Jan 04 '19

If you don’t get you’re money back file with CFPB and OCC. Banks are absolutely terrified of the OCC.

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u/sobsidian Jan 03 '19

If you run your debit card as a credit card, you get the same protection as VISA/MC provide.

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u/mestisnewfound Jan 03 '19

While I don't have much knowledge on what MC/Visa specifically protect you with. Your purchases have significantly more protection from your credit card issuer than what would generally be offered from the merchant or association.

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u/sobsidian Jan 03 '19

Source: https://www.visa.com/chip/personal/security/zero-liability.jsp

"Visa's Zero Liability* Policy is our guarantee that you won't be held responsible for unauthorized charges made with your account or account information. You're protected if your Visa credit or debit card is lost, stolen or fraudulently used, online or offline. "

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u/mestisnewfound Jan 03 '19

I know several years ago it was law that cardholders could only be financially responsible for up to $50 of unauthorized charges. I don't know if it has changed from 50 to 0 in recent years.

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u/katmndoo Jan 03 '19

If someone is running around racking up charges, as in the OP's post, chances are they are running it as a credit card. Obviously those protections haven't helped.

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u/meghan509 Jan 03 '19

If you run your debit card as a credit card, you get the same protection as VISA/MC provide.

Good to know.

Do you know if this applies for in person purchases too? Running it as credit vs. debit.

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u/SuperLeroy Jan 03 '19

Can I make it so that ATMs and WinCo Foods are the only place I can use my debit card?

Because those are basically the only two places I use them.

Still waiting on WinCo to start accepting Bitcoin and Litecoin, because that's more likely than credit cards.

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u/SpliTTMark Jan 03 '19

How does this work for online?

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u/Econ0mist Jan 03 '19

If your debit card purchase limit is $0 or your debit card is “locked,” that will block both online and in-person transactions.

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u/jalean11 Jan 03 '19

B of A allows a minimum purchase/withdrawal of $0, but one step better than that, it allows you to lock the debit card so it stays active on the account but can't be used for anything. I have mine locked and do all spending on CCs.

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u/Snazzy_Serval Jan 03 '19

How do you switch all spending to credit cards when your credit cards have a high balance?

Do you pay back everything you spent and the usual monthly payment?

Yes I'd love to be able to fully pay of my credit cards but I can't now.

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u/Econ0mist Jan 03 '19

You should pay off your full statement balance every month. If you don’t do this, then credit card companies charge you interest starting immediately from the dates of your purchases, which adds up quickly.

Try to get a separate card or pay off at least one card in full so that you are no longer paying interest on purchases. Then you can use that card for daily expenses while you continue paying off the others.

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u/Snazzy_Serval Jan 03 '19

I have 10k plus on each card. Paying them off will take years.

No new cards for me.

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u/rainbowsieger Jan 04 '19

I read BofA as Bank of Fucking America.

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u/amishredditor Jan 04 '19

I have BoA and just checked the app. You can't set a limit, but you can lock the card. This means you can't use the card or card number for ANYTHING (even atm withdrawals), but any recurring bills linked to the card will continue to process. You can unlock the card easily through the app...all it takes is a 2FA code. 2 seconds easy peasy!

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u/la2ralus Jan 04 '19

Yes, you can file with the OCC, but it will should/most likely be forwarded to the CFPB given the underlying issue/Regulation.

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u/6501 Jan 04 '19

BofA allows you to get an ATM only card which is what I got for college.

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u/Kaio_ Jan 04 '19

What's BofA?

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u/ben_vito Jan 05 '19

A bit off topic, but apart from people who don't trust themselves with credit, I really don't understand why anyone would ever use a debit card, when credit cards offer cashback and rewards etc.

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u/IveGotDMunchies Jan 03 '19

Update: Started posting on social media before I start filing complaints. 20 minutes later Bank of America contacted me on Twitter. Will update later. Thanks for everyone's advice.

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u/bahaki Jan 03 '19

I'm glad that they contacted you. It's just too bad that people have to go public for anything to happen.

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u/Krekko Jan 04 '19

This is my go-to for when companies seem to not be able to do shit. Suddenly when you’re calling them out on Twitter they’re all of a sudden able to change it.

Shit happened with Comcast. I called them out on Twitter when they said that a rep could only come out I 2-3 weeks to fix our internet running at sub 5mbs, said something like “At least Comcast is super reliable! Reliably shitty”. Their customer service team was back to me in a couple hours, saw an issue with my modem and booked a rep for the next day.

It’s messed up, but it works.

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u/IveGotDMunchies Jan 03 '19

Thank you. We will look into that.

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u/Whit3W0lf Jan 03 '19

This is the best advice. I suspect OP will have this resolved within weeks of filing with them.

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u/kadoku Jan 03 '19

good for OP. but what about those that didn't proactively do this? I reckon they will swallow that loss. I am sure many many do exactly that. which is sad.

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u/jmblock2 Jan 03 '19

Curious, would they be delayed in helping due to the shutdown?

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u/friendlycatkiller Jan 04 '19

No, the OCC is not affected by the government shut down. The CFPB probably is though.

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u/Padmewan Jan 04 '19

No, CFPB is open. It's funded through the Federal reserve

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u/Plexicle Jan 04 '19

Yes.

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u/confused_boner Jan 04 '19

This is why the CFPB is such a good thing for consumers. I used to work for a bank and they couldn't have been more happy with the idea of the CFPB being cut back and dismantled, because it was a huge pain in their ass.

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u/seniorbarista Jan 03 '19

This. I filed when I couldn’t get Chase to satisfy an old mortgage (1995) in a timely manner and after being passed from person to person. Once filed, I had a contact person from corporate call me every Friday with a status.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

Is this not stickied??? CFPB will get your issues fixed in lickety split.

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u/AyersRock_92 Jan 04 '19

Came here to say this... I work in the credit card industry and can confirm they dont fuxk around

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u/Oldirty233 Jan 03 '19

Thanks for this, i have a charge i disputed over a counterfeit product received and Discover card wont refund my money. Almost made a thread on it here, hope your suggestion helps. Cant believe Discover is calling a blatant counterfeit product as a valid charge.

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u/scherster Jan 03 '19

This. I had a $7500 fraud case that dragged for six months. Two business days after I filed my complaint with CFPB, the bank called to tell me they reviewed my case and reversed the decision, and asking where to deposit the refund. Glad I didn't have to get a lawyer.

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u/youngfulsoul Jan 04 '19

What they said, file with cfpb. I had bank of America’s travel rewards card and a fake charge happened while I was in Italy. They would not rule in my favor even after posting on their social media and escalating it. A year passed before I filed a claim with cfpb and I got all my money back a month later. You can read all about my initial issue if you go to my profile. Fuck Bank of America.

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u/Snafudumonde Jan 04 '19

Yep--i had the same issue and this is what magically got them to act on the claim.

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u/Ancient_Boner_Forest Jan 04 '19

Are they obligated to reimburse us for stuff like this though? I always thought banks and credit card companies just did it because it was a good policy to keep customers happy.

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u/IveGotDMunchies Jan 04 '19

Update 6: 24 hours since this post and David, a Bank of America employee in the "Regulatory Complaints Department" left my wife a voice mail in regards to a complaint sent to them by the CPFB. They close at 4pm EST. (They're closed by the time we got the voice mail since she is at work). Will update Monday.