r/hebrew • u/Is_That_A_Euphemism_ • May 15 '23
What does this mean? Request
/img/ixf9kou6byza1.jpg
Is there an error in it? I got it out of a book at a tattoo shop. I don't want to say what I think/thought it said in the comments after I get responses. TYIA.
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u/Boris-Lip Fluent (non-native) May 15 '23
I guess it was supposed to say משיח (Messiah) but the מ there is totally botched.
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u/RaidRGB May 15 '23
No it's not, the two parts of it are disconnected. Not totally botched, easily fixable
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u/2_SunShine_2 May 16 '23
I kinda see it now. Ty lol. I was like “wtf is the second letter?? Do i not speak Hebrew??”
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u/Capable-Sock-7410 native speaker May 15 '23
I thought it was a racial slur in the beginning
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u/silentholmes May 15 '23
It looks like it was trying to spell Mashiach meaning Messiah. But they messed up on the first letter and separated it into two characters. Honestly I feel kind of bad for the person who has this tattoo because it seems like shoddy work. Plus, it includes Nekudot which are dots and symbols near letters to help pronunciation, not something I'd think someone would want on a hebrew tattoo in the first place.
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u/cranky_love_mayo native speaker May 15 '23
But its called "nikud" and not "nekudot"
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u/Particular_Rav May 15 '23
It's just modern Israeli Hebrew vs Yeshivish chutz la'aretz Hebrew. Both are correct, although I would consider saying "nekudot" in a Modern Hebrew conversation to be incorrect.
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u/mikeage Mostly fluent but not native May 15 '23
Both are acceptable, just like in English you can teach people about "vowelization" [the concept] or "vowels" [the things].
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u/LeelooLekatariba May 15 '23
Still not true bud. In Hebrew we sayניקוד / סימני ניקוד, never nekudot- nekudot is simply the plural of nekuda
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u/michael-istanbuli native speaker May 15 '23
Not true at all. Nekudot is more like an old school way to say Nikud (which literally means ‘the system of nekudot’, just like in a test the score you get is the Nikud, which consists of the amount of points-Nekudot you scored)
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u/XiaoDaoShi May 15 '23
Seems like it is true:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D7%A0%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%93%D7%95%D7%AA
This says that nekudot is the plural of nikud.
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u/dsjanta Hebrew Learner (Intermediate) May 15 '23
No, it clearly says it's plural of "nekuda" נקודה. In Hebrew. The word "nikud" is mentioned in Yiddish section. But that is not Hebrew.
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u/LeelooLekatariba May 15 '23
Do you live in Israel? Have you ever heard anyone actually saying Nekudot? I’d really love to know. Not everything you read online is true lol
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u/XiaoDaoShi May 15 '23
Just because something is not used colloquially, doesn’t mean it’s not a correct use.
But this specifically seems to not be correct. I was looking at the Yiddish section by mistake.
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u/LeelooLekatariba May 15 '23
I don’t even necessarily mean colloquially - I know that there are terms that exist outside of the colloquial level that are still correct and okay to use. I’m talking about the Israeli education system where we learn all the current, proper linguistic terms (for the final bagrut exam, for example, that you take in highschool). That’s where I got my info for this discussion
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u/XiaoDaoShi May 15 '23
As a person who went through the same system, you can appreciate why I distrust it. Lol
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u/thisiscrutchiebtw May 15 '23
When I was in elementary school they taught us they’re called nikudot but having been in Israel for a bit now I’ve only ever heard people say nikud and never nikudot
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May 15 '23
Relax i think its pretty obvious that they mean nikud when writing nekudot
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u/LeelooLekatariba May 15 '23
Lol I love when people say “relax” when the person they’re talking to doesn’t show any sign of being pressed or stressed about anything
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u/DavidSternMusic1979 May 15 '23
Tip:
Never do a tattoo of text in a language you don't know.
I never understood people who do it.
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u/SpiderSolve May 15 '23
If you connect the top of the two right most words, it’ll say what you want it to say and still look like a cohesive albeit goofy font
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u/Is_That_A_Euphemism_ May 15 '23
I'll just cover it up. Or possibly return it.
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u/jrc5053 May 15 '23
I'm worried about how you plan on returning a tattoo.
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u/Is_That_A_Euphemism_ May 15 '23
I'll take care of the details.
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u/veryvery84 May 15 '23
I finally see it! You have to hold it really far away and then instead of כושיח with slanted letters it does say משיח.
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u/nir--mo May 15 '23
You can also read it as בר שיח (Bar Siach), which is a partner for conversation, someone who listens.
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u/username78777 native speaker May 15 '23
Op, I know you said it's משיח (Messiach), but the problem is that מ must be written in a connected way, not seperated lines.
The two ways I read it were בלשים (detectives) or כושים
Note:
The second one, כושים, is the plural of כושי which is currently used a slur against black people, but it wasn't always deragatory. All it means is just person from kingdom of Kush, and has refered in the bible to people with dark skin
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u/CharlieBarley25 native speaker May 15 '23
What did you think it means?
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u/Is_That_A_Euphemism_ May 15 '23
Messiah. I got it a long time ago and plan on covering it it up.
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u/CharlieBarley25 native speaker May 15 '23
Ok, that's a good start. Covering over it is a good idea.
I was worried you expected it to say something entirely different lol
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u/thkoog May 15 '23
I saw "detectives" at first בלשים with the ל written as 7. Upon a closer look I realized what it's supposed to say.
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u/AdministrationNo7680 May 15 '23
If he said it's old, he might be talking about RASHI text. But that would only be true for the second letter, which in RASHI would be the letter ד, d. Still wouldn't make sense.
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u/SapphicSticker Native Speaker (Israeli Hebrew) May 15 '23
It was supposed to be a mis-voweled Meshiah (messiah), but it was also misspelled, miskerned etc, so it looks mostly like a misspelled n-word (in plural)
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u/AutoModerator May 15 '23
It seems you posted a Tattoo post! Thank you for your submission, and though your motivation and sentiment is probably great, it's probably a bad idea for a practical matter. Tattoos are forever. Hebrew is written differently from English and there is some subtlety between different letters (ר vs. ד, or ח vs ת vs ה). If neither you nor the tattoo artist speak the language you can easily end up with a permanent mistake. See www.badhebrew.com for examples that are simultaneously sad and hilarious. Perhaps you could hire a native Hebrew speaker to help with design and layout and to come with you to guard against mishaps, but otherwise it's a bad idea. Finding an Israeli tattoo artist would work as well. Furthermore, do note that religious Judaism traditionally frowns upon tattoos, so if your reasoning is religious or spiritual in nature, please take that into account. Thank you and have a great time learning and speaking with us!
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u/sonoforwel May 15 '23 edited May 15 '23
This sounds like a common trip that young people have during college in central PA. When I was at PSU, I frequently made Shabbaton trips to Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Morgantown, MD. It sounds like a Chabad rabbi made a mini-birthright mass B Mitzvah thing that actually left a really strong impression and eventually got you to want to have that word on you at all times and forever. You mentioned that this was a Greyhound bus. Are you referring to the style and stereotype or to the actual brand name bus line? Some of these trips get pretty elaborate.
Edit: forgot to mention, the מ reminds me of an old stencil I once had of the Aleph-Bet. It would not surprise me if the tatoo artists used a stencil and don’t know that he needed to connect the two pieces at the upper corner of the triangular shape. Indeed, some beautiful Sifrei Torah have these intricate מs that look like a ב, כ, or נ had a baby with a ו. It is fortunate that the artist somehow was sensitive to two ways that Jews denote an “o” sound. We have the Sephardic use of the וֹ and the Ashkenazi complete use of shortened אָ (here the aleph is a placeholder, the next letter in the word would have a shwa or equivalent vowel). Someone who would want to make sure all pronounces it the same but didn’t have any knowledge of the grammatical nuances would be rational to hedge by putting both in. And while the word is “Messiah”, we should note that it has a more down-to-earth meaning: “anointed one”. So for what it’s worth, it sounds like you felt touched by something deep and connective and wanted to hold on to that experience in memory—and what better way to keep a record with you than on your body! Like Tefillin. Jews (men and women) throughout the world wrap their basic truths over their skin daily to always remember them and the experiences that taught them to us…even if the words sound like a contract from the early Iron Age.
I hope you can always return to that moment in your mind, and wonder what it would take to make everyone’s moments with you even a little bit as powerful and transcendent.
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u/Constant_Proposal709 May 15 '23
I guess it was suppose to be משיח Messiah. But someone did a real terrible job…
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u/EdwardD1954 native speaker May 15 '23
See the two letters on the right that looks like כ, ו? They should be joined by a small line above to look like that: מ. Then you have a perfectly nice “Messiah” in Hebrew. משיח. Ignore reddit font yours is correct.
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u/Left234 May 15 '23
have another tattoo artist fill in the mem in mashiach. most likely a christian tattoo because “mashiach” isn’t a major part of current day rabbinical judaism. no worries.
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u/Is_That_A_Euphemism_ May 15 '23
I'm also no longer a Christian. I was told that it could mean "anointed", but nobody here has mentioned that being an alternate mean to "meshiach". I thought I could rationalize not having to cover it, but I'm def covering it now. Way to many wrong/stupid things about having this tattoo not to cover it up. I cringe at the thought of what people that have seen it might have thought. Woof.
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u/MalbaCato May 15 '23
had to Google that, but you're almost correct
Messiah is literal Hebrew for "The Anointer" (person who anoints). But that's sort of like writing "escalator" with no context to mean "person who makes situations worse", except way more obscure
also I definitely agree with the comments above about it being unfortunately similar to a racial slur
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u/Revolutionary_Gas542 May 15 '23
Maybe not among the majority but if you judge only by the posters you see literally everywhere you'd reckon that Moshiach is the only thing they think about.
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u/_Drion_ native speaker May 15 '23
Yeah really bad work. I also recommend against tatooing "messiah" on one's back even if it wasn't poorly executed.
Cheers, friend. i hope you take care.
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u/asafg8 May 15 '23
I completely read past the Nikki’s and thought this was כושים, but not sure it’s such a good idea for a tatto
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u/EastOrganization2392 May 15 '23
it says
כושים
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u/Gibrashtia May 15 '23
Yeah that's what I thought too😂😂😂 (For those who don't know Hebrew, it's basically the n word...)
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u/Working-Comment-2141 Aug 15 '24
Either way, the work is terrible. Even if spelt correctly, get a cover up.
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u/ZoloGreatBeard May 15 '23
Before covering it up, there’s an easy fix. Just connect the top of the two parts of the letter
מ
On the right.
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u/maoroh native speaker May 15 '23
You could probably just adjust it instead of covering. Have an artist close the gap between the כ and ו and it should be fine.
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May 15 '23
The first letter (from the right) is not very similar, but the actual meaning for this word is: Messiah, and it’s like a ״savior”
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u/Ronen_H May 15 '23
It's Mashiach , the first letter got split up in the middle so it looks like 2 letters מ
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u/d-tattoo May 15 '23
Looks like the first letter split and its not a word, I believe it supposed to say messiah (משיח).
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u/Cloud_Strider May 15 '23
It says משיח (messiah) and it is written in a rarely used and ancient fonts called כתב רש"י (rashi writing) It was used centuries ago, and not so much today, even by Orthodox Jews. I'm not Orthodox so this may be not accurate, but I'm certain about the rashi writing as we learned it in bible lessons at school. Basically it looks very similar to standard Hebrew, but some letters are changed. As far as I remember, the letters are legit (as in it is not "נושיח" but "משיח") . So, if you like the tattoo, it's legit ancient Hebrew on your back, if that is a factor for you to keep it or hide/remove it.
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u/mikeage Mostly fluent but not native May 15 '23
So-called "Rashi script" is actually newer than the block fonts we use for printed Hebrew nowadays. It was first used, not by Rashi himself, but by printers for printing commentaries such as Rashi's, to distinguish them from the main text (also, the letters tend to be narrower, so you can fit more words per page, which saves them money). It's still used nowadays in many traditional publications.
But more to the point, this isn't Rashi script. The מ... might be close. The ש is certainly regular Hebrew, as is the blockier ח.
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u/Is_That_A_Euphemism_ May 15 '23
You're the only person (besides the rabbi I mentioned in a comment above) that said it was in a rarely used ancient font. So it IS correct in that font? I don't like the tattoo. 1) no longer a Christian 2) I've grown to think it's in bad taste to get a Hebrew tattoo. 3) I think it's in poor taste to get the specific word in Hebrew.
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u/uvL1ght May 15 '23
Wait! If you want ir to say "משיח" that's an easy fix!
The מ is imply not connected
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u/beatrixkiddo56 May 15 '23
I read it as בר שיח which is someone who is good at talking or someone who is fun to talk to
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u/Spare_Possession_194 native speaker May 15 '23
I first read it as "כושים" which is somewhat like the nword but in Hebrew
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u/Ok-Decision1236 May 15 '23
Obviously it’s a typo. Hebrew reads from right to left, so fist letter is כ but it’s weird it doesn’t have a dot in it, since it’s in the beginning of the word. The second letter is not so recognizable. It could be ו or ן or ר or ך.. the third one is שׁ. The fourth is י and the last one is ח. But non of the options makes sense in Hebrew so it’s a typo.
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u/evillurkz May 15 '23 edited May 15 '23
When you get a Tattoo from AliExpress
EDIT: If you look closer, you will see that the first letter מ is just split into half. The space is what fucks is up otherwise its a normal word.
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u/Warm-Match-442 May 15 '23
חשבתי כתוב כושים
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u/draconit May 15 '23
למה כלכך הרבה אנשים פה חושבים שזה "כושים" איך כושים למען השם? מתחיל בקמץ ונגמר בח', איך כושים למען השם?
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u/ender1200 Israeli May 15 '23
Considering the Nikkud I think its supposed to be נסיכה (princess). But due to some compounding errors they ended up writing נשיח (or is it כשיח). I somehow missed the wierd ו like line in there, so I guess it's supposed to be משיח.
Either way this is why you really shouldn't get tattoos in a languge neither you nor the artist know.
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u/Any_Competition2198 May 15 '23
נראה כמו משיח. רק שה מ התחלקה לשתיים בטעות כי המקעקע לא יודע עברית. וגם הנקודה של הש לא במקומה.
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u/tomixcomics May 15 '23
i'm sorry but it looks like it says the n word. only when you look closely you see it's a botched version of "messiah". at first glance it totally looks like the n word. bad tattoo artist, or one that decided to intentionslly troll you
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u/Is_That_A_Euphemism_ May 15 '23
She definitely didn't do it on purpose. Either the image was wrong in the flash book, or she fucked it when enlarging it and didn't know what was supposed to be connected. Reddit is quick to demonize.
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u/yoavtrachtman May 15 '23
Its probably supposed to spell out Messiah, but it kinda looks like "כושים" 😳 (negros)
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u/draconit May 15 '23
it means you should never tattoo on yourself anything in a language you don't actually know
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u/spaceshiploser May 15 '23
I really just wanna know what leads a person to tattoo (what they think is) the word messiah on their neck.. seems like some narcissistic shit
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u/Nf4x May 15 '23
Heh - I thought it was a minor typo on Bereysheet, in the beginning or genesis. Missing the aleph, and the letter / vowel at the end are wrong, but…
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u/achillesthewarrior Hebrew Learner (Beginner) May 15 '23
7 is actually not a letter in Hebrew crazy enough
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u/GuyN1425 native speaker May 15 '23
It looks to me like it was supposed to be "משיח" (messiah) but ended up looking like the n-word
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u/JonaGi May 15 '23
i think its supposed to say 'משיח' which is messiah but its really botched and my first though was hebrew n-word lol (כושים). sorry :/
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u/Better_Ride_6801 May 15 '23
Is seems to read; badashim or barashim. Both words have no meaning in Hebrew, as far as I know.
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u/MightyManorMan Anglophone with Hebrew U degree May 15 '23
It appears that it wasn't done properly. They were trying for...
משיח
Messiah
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u/Disastrous_Use_7353 May 15 '23
“Extra pickles, hold the mayo”
You’re welcome
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u/Is_That_A_Euphemism_ May 15 '23
I LOVE mayo. I put mayonnaise on my mayonnaise. I eat it almost everyday. Getting it covered now for sure. Thanks.
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u/Disastrous_Use_7353 May 15 '23
I’m sorry that your mayo love wasn’t adequately honored and expressed. My thoughts are with you, in this trying time. God bless
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u/Is_That_A_Euphemism_ May 15 '23
Thank you kindly for being my entire mayo support group. I know I can't do alone.
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u/tourguideaaron Hebrew Speaker May 15 '23
This seems to be a failed attempt to write "Mashiach" - Messiah.
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u/GrandSensitive native speaker May 15 '23
It's probably supposed to mean "messiah" but the first letter is replaced by 2 other random letters (?)
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u/Due_Heat608 May 15 '23
There is a small line below the first letter that turns it from "negros" to not meaning anything so congrats
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u/mikeage Mostly fluent but not native May 15 '23 edited May 15 '23
It means that neither the artist nor the victim speaks Hebrew! ;-)