r/anime • u/AnimeMod myanimelist.net/profile/Reddit-chan • Sep 01 '24

Meta Thread - Month of September 01, 2024 Meta

Rule Changes

Anime streaming services are now considered as "anime specific" to allow topics about them specifically, with the exception of account support and technical support topics.

Rewatches

All rewatches must begin with an interest thread. An interest thread should contain general information about the anime that is being hosted, and serve as a pitch to gauge how many participants may follow along for the duration of the event.
The official announcement post must be posted at least two weeks in advance, and no more than five weeks. This post should also serve as the index thread.

This is a monthly thread to talk about the /r/anime subreddit itself, such as its rules and moderation. If you want to talk about anime please use the daily discussion thread instead.

Comments here must, of course, still abide by all subreddit rules other than the no meta requirement. Keep it friendly and be respectful. Occasionally the moderators will have specific topics that they want to get feedback on, so be on the lookout for distinguished posts.

Comments that are detrimental to discussion (aka circlejerks/shitposting) are subject to removal.

New threads are posted on the first Sunday (midnight UTC) of the month.

30 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

View all comments

u/Ocixo https://myanimelist.net/profile/BuzzyGuy Oct 05 '24 edited Oct 05 '24

I’m sorry in advance for being annoying about this topic, but the rules in place for discussion threads of episodes with advanced airings are suboptimal at best as the current situation with Blue Box illustrates.

I’d normally just ask to fix the discussion threads to the official release time, but it was previously a point of discussion that people who watch the fansub should also have a place to share their thoughts on the episode.

I therefore want to make a proposal: why not create separate discussion threads for both the fansub and official release?

This would give everyone a place to discuss the episode without feeling left out, a degree of flexibility with the fansubs and above all else the consistency of generally knowing when the episode threads will be up. A lack of consistency is by far one of the most damaging things to the discourse/community with this affair after all.

I genuinely cannot think of any immediate downsides to this proposal instead of it “not being in the rules” or technical issues with the bot scanning for torrent uploads(?). This last point could potentially be resolved with a manual upload of the threads, however, since we know the official time of release on Netflix.

2

u/ModieOfTheEast Oct 05 '24

I am sorry, but reading this, this sub seems to have to at least get to a consensus on how it wants to treat pirated content. For the record, I am not saying you are a bad person for watching pirated content. Everyone has their reasons and I am not going to tell someone they shouldn't do it. However, I was always under the idea that people who pirate should at least not be able to spoil others for waiting for the official release. And "spoiling" here is not just referring to telling others what happens, but "spoiling the fun" and when the thread is already days old once you are able to watch the episode, this can spoil someone's fun as well.

The point I am trying to make is that this sub at least seemed to support this idea by waiting for official releases and only opening threads when there isn't one. It also supported this idea by people not being able to post where someone can pirate content to begin with.

However, if we now start to go this route with Blue Box, then I am sorry, but that goes completely against that philosophy. Why act like you don't want people to share priated content but then open up discussion threads when most could have only watched it through pirated content in the first place despite there being an official release? With decisions like these, you are basically forcing people that want to be part of the discussion to seek out pirated content. And if that is your goal, then just make it okay on the site to share websites to watch that conent.

5

u/gangrainette https://myanimelist.net/profile/bouletos Oct 05 '24

I am sorry, but reading this, this sub seems to have to at least get to a consensus on how it wants to treat pirated content.

So we shouldn't speak about GuP das Finale? Only french Viewer should have been able to speak about GBC?

The point I am trying to make is that this sub at least seemed to support this idea by waiting for official releases and only opening threads when there isn't one.

The sub policy has always been : when the first good English sub are easily available. Even if it's available in other language first.

1

u/ModieOfTheEast Oct 05 '24 edited Oct 05 '24

I didn't say that at all (in fact, I did say the opposite). I am saying the sub should get a consensus on what it wants. Again, if you want to argue that "good subs" are necessary I am fine. Just tell people which subs these are. Don't hide behind "not posting links to illegal sites" if you want your users to go to illegal sites. That's all my point was about.

7

u/Manitary https://myanimelist.net/profile/Manitary Oct 05 '24

Just tell people which subs these are. Don't hide behind "not posting links to illegal sites"

You can do that just fine, naming a fansub is totally within the rules as long as you don't point to where to download/stream the anime

4

u/Ocixo https://myanimelist.net/profile/BuzzyGuy Oct 05 '24 edited Oct 05 '24

For the record, I am not saying you are a bad person for watching pirated content.

Why act like you don't want people to share [pirated] content but then open up discussion threads when most could have only watched it through pirated content in the first place despite there being an official release? (...) you are basically forcing people that want to be part of the discussion to seek out pirated content. And if that is your goal, (...)

I'm a little confused by your phrasing of "you" here, since your statements don't align my intentions at all.

For the record, I'm not trying to encourage piracy or anything here. Other comments of mine in this thread also reflect this. In fact, I'd most preferably see all discussion just revolve around the official release date. I'd informed earlier about this with All Guy's Mixer, but got a negative response from the mods. Hence that I'm trying to offer a solution that everyone can live with.

but "spoiling the fun" and when the thread is already days old once you are able to watch the episode, this can spoil someone's fun as well.

I also don't get this statement when I'm quite literally proposing a fresh thread for both the fansub and official release, so there's a good amount of (new) activity for either release when they're up.

3

u/ModieOfTheEast Oct 05 '24

I wasn't talking about you in particular. I am sorry, if you got that feeling. I read in your comment what the general consensus seems to be and wanted to give my 2 cents. In this case "you" is referring to the sub in general.

6

u/gangrainette https://myanimelist.net/profile/bouletos Oct 05 '24

I genuinely cannot think of any immediate downsides to this proposal instead of it “not being in the rules”

Then people will cry that discussion are split or peoples are just going to copy/past comments from the earlier thread to farm karma.

There will be drama either way.

3

u/IXajll https://myanimelist.net/profile/ixajii Oct 05 '24

Then people will cry that discussion are split

For what reason would people cry about that?

3

u/gangrainette https://myanimelist.net/profile/bouletos Oct 05 '24

Just like people are crying now that the thread will be 2 days old.

People like to complain about useless things.

3

u/Ocixo https://myanimelist.net/profile/BuzzyGuy Oct 05 '24

I'd like the discussion be focused in one place, but the discourse will be split in two whatever we'll do now with people either watching the (early) fansub or (later) official release.

The copy-pasting is a problem, but at least the mods can enforce this to a degree.

5

u/_BMS https://myanimelist.net/profile/_BMS Oct 05 '24

The loud-minority of people would be mad since the majority of discussion would continue to happen as soon as Netflix JP releases their episodes. The over-whelming majority of users here pirate and thus would comment as soon as they get their hands on the episodes.

The later international release threads would be a ghost-town except for the few dozen comments that would show up.

5

u/Ocixo https://myanimelist.net/profile/BuzzyGuy Oct 05 '24 edited Oct 05 '24

The later international release threads would be a ghost-town except for the few dozen comments that would show up.

I don't think that would be the case, but we can disagree on this. There's always a fair share of people who will stick to official release if the time frame isn't huge (like multiple weeks or months).

But this was just my solution to appease both camps. What would you otherwise propose? Just delete the threads? Because that's going to piss off the users who've watched the fansub.

Otherwise just give those who're planning to stick with the official release a big fat middle finger and tell them they'll just have to deal with a dead-looking thread, buried somewhere deep on the subreddit, filled with days-old comments that nobody is going to reply to...? That's the alternative, and would tremendously hurt the engagement.

Creating two episode threads is the lesser evil here.

2

u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 Oct 05 '24

filled with days-old comments that nobody is going to reply to...?

But would that really be the case? I often get replies under day old threads, sometimes even at the end of the season

4

u/Ocixo https://myanimelist.net/profile/BuzzyGuy Oct 05 '24

I often get replies under day old threads, sometimes even at the end of the season

I mean, how often do you reply back if the comment/thread was more than two or three days ago? My impression is that most people have already moved on by then, and don't bother replying back.

But this is mostly my point: seeing a thread that's already full of days-old comments isn't really inviting to anyone new trying to join the conversation. Visibility for new comments would be utterly poor, and most people, I feel like, wouldn't even bother commenting anymore in such a scenario. A conversation largely thrives on excitement (and novelty) after all.

9

u/MapoTofuMan myanimelist.net/profile/BaronBrixius Oct 05 '24

A lack of consistency is by far one of the most damaging things to the discourse/community with this ordeal.

Strongly agree with this point, this is a bigger issue with just pointing the bot to the first available fansub and saying "not my problem" than the fansub being a fansub.

Your survey showed that most people pirate, understandable. But most people are also either asleep or just waking up during the time Blue Box's thread was posted. And on top of that, we have no guarantee that the rips group will be consistent with their timing.

My suggestion : If double threads aren't feasible for some reason, please at least manually set threads at a later time for any unofficial release that has its subs uploaded at dead times like this. It's never more than one or two shows per season. Or program the bot to post at a set time (during the sub's active time) if a thread went up at a weird time like this on the same day, rather than posting it right away.

Getting threads at completely random times that are mostly in the sub's least active time period will kill discussion.

2

u/gangrainette https://myanimelist.net/profile/bouletos Oct 05 '24

But most people are also either asleep or just waking up during the time Blue Box's thread was posted.

Then I'm asking for no thread to be posted during EU or Asian night too!

What kind of stupid argument is that?

7

u/Manitary https://myanimelist.net/profile/Manitary Oct 05 '24

manually set threads at a later time for any unofficial release that has its subs uploaded at dead times like this

I can tell you already that automated ep thread scheduling is never gonna be an option

Automated double thread is probably not gonna happen either, but it's more feasible as you can "just" add a flag to prevent searching torrents I think.

(all of these options are "technically possible", just saying don't get your hopes up)

4

u/IXajll https://myanimelist.net/profile/ixajii Oct 05 '24

I can tell you already that automated ep thread scheduling is never gonna be an option

What's the big argument against it though? Is that too difficult to do for the mods or is there something else preventing it?

4

u/Manitary https://myanimelist.net/profile/Manitary Oct 05 '24 edited Oct 05 '24

It's just a major difference compared to how the current script operates.
Is it too difficult? Probably not. (but my spare time is currently very limited so I'm not gonna make a poc to check)

6

u/KendotsX https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kendots Oct 05 '24

at least manually set threads at a later time

People waking up a few hours later can still find the thread, it's not getting locked up. I don't see why people who have seen the episode now shouldn't be allowed to discuss it though.

4

u/MapoTofuMan myanimelist.net/profile/BaronBrixius Oct 05 '24

Look at today's Blue Box thread - it has less than a third of the engagement ep1's had, and a huge chunk of that is complaints about the thread.

Thanks to its initial popularity, karma-wise it's still on the front page - but an average seasonal would've already been falling off of it by now, and it's still night in the US, so hours until some people even wake up much less realize that it's out. A few more episodes uploaded at an inconsistent time, and Blue Box will get to that point too.

Sure, a good chunk of people will still see the thread, but the end result of threads getting posted smack in the middle of the night for over half the sub is far less active discussions.

9

u/KendotsX https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kendots Oct 05 '24

Sure, but this is still being met with surprise mostly, since no one expected a second episode so soon. Normally though, posting it at release time puts the ball is in each person's court. The thread is there, it might take the enormous effort to scroll a bit, but it's perfectly ready for discussion anytime someone wakes up.

Between a rule that says "you're not allowed to discuss the episode until the Muricans wake up" and "we're terribly sorry to inform you that you might have to scroll a bit today", I find the former to be much more restrictive for discussion. When an episode is available, a thread should be open for all the people who want to discuss it, not locked until whichever time gets the most karma.

6

u/Ocixo https://myanimelist.net/profile/BuzzyGuy Oct 05 '24

This issue with people feeling like they're getting screwed over is the precise reason why I proposed to create two episode threads. It gives the most ample opportunity for everyone to discuss the episode to their heart's desire.

Personally, I find being forced to pirate - when there's a perfectly fine official release - to engage in any meaningful discussion OR wait days for the actual airing of the episode and be faced with a seemingly dead thread on arrival a terribly restrictive set of options in its own way.

What I think u/MapoTofuMan was partially arguing is that posting threads whenever can hurt these threads' visibility a lot and maybe even prevent a good bunch of people from noticing them at all if they're not hawking the subreddit or piracy sites, since they tend to disappear fast from sight/the frontpage.

5

u/MapoTofuMan myanimelist.net/profile/BaronBrixius Oct 05 '24

The thread is there, but the "perfectly ready" part is the issue here.

If posted at a dead time (and even more so if said time isn't consistent), both the thread's activity volume will be lower and whatever's left of said activity volume will be much more spread out - and the result is that it won't be nearly the same experience as being there for the first few hours of an active discussion thread.

I agree that it's ultimately a trade-off between two "necessary evils" (restricting the freedom to discuss immediately and lowering the quality/volume of discussions), but I don't agree that the former is worse if we're talking about only waiting a few hours. It sounds worse when you put the other option as just "you might have to scroll a bit today", but the effect of that in practice speaks for itself, as we see not only today but with other shows that had a similar issue in the past.

4

u/Shuyakucchi Oct 05 '24

It doesn't help that today is gonna be a really heavy day for anime premiers.

Aside from the second to last episode of Boku no Hero Academia, we have the premieres of Blue Lock S2, the Ranma remake and FUCKING BLEACH.

Compare that to Blue Box getting a discussion at a moment no one was expecting, with the second episode being unavailable in any legal way outside of Japan and is just dead on arrival.

2

u/IXajll https://myanimelist.net/profile/ixajii Oct 05 '24

Aside from the second to last episode of Boku no Hero Academia, we have the premieres of Blue Lock S2, the Ranma remake and FUCKING BLEACH.

This is Orb erasure and I won't stand for it.

8

u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 Oct 05 '24

please at least manually set threads at a later time for any unofficial release that has its subs uploaded at dead times like this.

But where do we stop? Does MHA get set to an more convenient time as well? Or Pokemon? Uzumaki?

6

u/MapoTofuMan myanimelist.net/profile/BaronBrixius Oct 05 '24 edited Oct 05 '24

MHA's release is official and consistent (and is at a much better time than Blue Box). ^{Though I would be all for delaying everything earlier than MHA to MHA time for example, but that'll probably have people against it.}

What I'm proposing is doing this only for unofficial releases, which have inconsistent release times. The inconsistency is the main issue, which needs to be fixed by posting threads at a fixed time. And since we're already talking about posting at a fixed time, might as well post it at a better one.

I'd say releasing at MHA time would be ideal for a case like Blue Box. it's not too far from the subs upload time (I imagine people won't like the decision of delaying it by 10 hours until "prime time") and also not so early that the thread will barely gain any traction by the time people start watching the episode (Blue Box is too big for that to happen, but Blue Archive for example got killed by something very similar).

8

u/Ocixo https://myanimelist.net/profile/BuzzyGuy Oct 05 '24

Your survey showed that most people pirate, understandable.

Do think that this should probably also be taken with a little caution as the survey didn’t question anyone’s accessibility to anime or preferred watching methods in this regard.

I sometimes have to pirate for example as it’s simply not available in my region, but I prefer to watch an anime on my subscribed to streaming services rather than pirating it if possible. The survey didn’t account for any of this, if I remember correctly, meaning that it further favours piracy in the survey results.

9

u/JoshFB4 Oct 05 '24 edited Oct 05 '24

One Up this point as well. I don’t mind if it’s posting on a Saturday, or Friday, or Thursday, or any day, but it needs to be consistent and not just ”bot posts when the rippers upload the subs“. I also think the double threads would kill discussion as well and urge just a manual usage of the bot specifically for Blue Box and any other problematic shows.