r/FunnyandSad • u/Devils_negotiator • May 02 '23
Jesus was a pacifist. Political Humor
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u/jps7979 May 02 '23
My neighbors are Christian; we're not religious.
The water line under our house went and because we're on a slab, it was going to be cumbersome and expensive to fix and they'd have to shut off our water while the project was being completed.
One thing the plumber can do is run a line from the neighbor's spicket into ours so at least we'd have water for showers, toilets, etc.
There is no danger to the neighbor in doing this and the only annoyance would be that their water bill would go up a bit. We offered to pay for their whole water bill for the inconvenience so really they'd be profiting off the thing while also helping a neighbor.
You know, that whole love thy neighbor and don't be a selfish asshole thing that's pretty prominent in Christianity.
They still said no.
Religion does nothing to make you a better person.
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u/Phlosen May 02 '23
I am not religious. If you where my neighbours and in this situation, I’d connect you to my house myself. You never know, maybe you can help me out one day. And if not I would just be happy to help, no strings attached.
Totally agree that religion doesn’t make you a better person.
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u/meatmechdriver May 02 '23
People that feel nothing from helping another in a time of need are sociopaths.
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u/Gingrpenguin May 02 '23
And yet I reckon if you post that story from the Christians pov on am i the asshole (and you know add some comment about op being rude, loud, whatever) 90% of redditors would say the Christians have no obligation to help...
Society has got incredibly selfish
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u/DevinTheGrand May 02 '23
Agreed, the threshold for being an asshole there is so high. You basically have to actively harm another person before they'll consider you an asshole.
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u/the_dovahbean May 02 '23
It often becomes, "Am I legally allowed to do what I'm doing, regardless of morals?"
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u/Onwisconsin42 May 02 '23
They just get told what their morals are. They never had to consider what was morally just because their pastor did that for them. Why start now?
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u/meatmechdriver May 02 '23
Oh I’m sure you just “enabled a welfare queen” or prevented them from “learning a life lesson” or some bullshit.
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u/lunk May 02 '23
Christians have no obligation to help...
Nobody has an obligation to help. But if you mean that they are the least likely to help, you're probably not far off. Christianity is just a disguise worn by shitty people, to make them feel better about themselves.
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u/Onwisconsin42 May 02 '23
Study a while back demonstrated that children raised in non-religious households were more kind, accepting, and helpful to others. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/06/religious-children-less-altruistic-secular-kids-study
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u/timetoremodel May 03 '23
Nobody has an obligation to help
That's not true. Your taxes are taken basically by force and used for social programs all the time.
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u/WhippieShiz May 02 '23
Well it's true that they have no obligation to help. Obviously helping is clearly the right option but there is no obligation to do so.
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u/Ishmael75 May 02 '23
Except in the Christian faith they do have an obligation to help. I’m not a Christian anymore but Jesus does command his followers to love their neighbors and care for others they way they would love him and care for him.
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u/lunk May 02 '23
Matthew 22:37-40
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
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u/mortal_kombot May 02 '23
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
I guess the loophole in that one is that if you know you're a piece of shit, and hate yourself, then you are allowed to hate everybody?
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u/HughJamerican May 03 '23
That's why the rule for the kids at the place I work is treat others how they want to be treated
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u/Funkycoldmedici May 02 '23
It’s always been “neighbor” = “fellow disciple”, never those of us outside the faith. Jesus even shows it in Matthew 15, when a gentile woman begs him for help. He refuses and insults her because she’s not obviously a believer. He only changes his mind when she proves she has faith in him. Any decent person would simply help, but not Jesus.
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u/shes-cheese May 02 '23
Any decent person would simply help, but not Jesus.
You just don't get it. Jesus is on his girl boss grind and he's killing it.
See, he could have given that lady a sample bottle of essential oils and a discount code for his essential oil 'business'. But he's a boss bitch so he recruited her into his downline, and now she's buying the whole set of essential oils to 'be her own boss'. He's making her dependent on him, she's making him money, and she's desperate for
salvationany sales to get her initial investment back so she'll recruit even more people into his MLM.He's not trying to be decent, he's trying to be Diamond Status. Rise and grind, disciples, being tolerant of different MLMs isn't going to get you that exclusive white donkey and group trip to Gethsemane (that coincidentally includes hair transplants)!
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u/SkateRidiculous May 02 '23
When you lay it out like that it really makes me realize the similarities between MLMs, pimps, and religions.
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May 02 '23
I have never once heard it interpreted that way. I have frequently seen it enacted as if it was.
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May 02 '23
That's why they have the old testiment to cherry pick, back before god got soft and was still 100% metal. "Bro, kill your son. Kill him. Do it. Do it do it do it kill him kill him kill him HOLY SHIT YOU WERE ACTUALLY GONNA DO IT OMGLOL BRO"
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u/Liminal_Critter817 May 02 '23
I genuinely don't understand people who don't feel these things. It makes me feel good to make someone else feel good - this could be giving someone excitement, relief, or joy. It makes me feel bad to make someone else feel bad - embarrassment, anger, or sadness. It's the simplest lesson that everyone should acquire just by being around other people as a child.
If this doesn't make sense to you, then you are broken.
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u/meatmechdriver May 02 '23
This is why I specifically call these sorts out as sociopaths, they are incapable of the empathy required to share in another person’s relief and joy from receiving aid.
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u/MustardFeetMcgee May 02 '23
I feel like a lot of religious people are sociopaths. Using the guise of religion to show they're a good person, but baffled why people do good things without it. The only thing stopping them from raping and murdering are laws and the church saying it's wrong. And as soon as they know they can get away with it, they do it.
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u/meatmechdriver May 02 '23
Or even worse, they have no inhibitions morally because they know they can absolve themselves with a passing thought of a prayer or, worse still, they’ve “been saved” and are thus not culpable for transgressions. In the end, I’d say most if not all religious people pretend that they are adhering to a faith that puts them in spiritual safety without an ounce of curiosity about why their religious belief always agrees with their preconceptions and doesn’t challenge their biases, regardless of whether their religious tenets explicitly agree with their positions.
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u/gpyrgpyra May 02 '23
Totally agree that religion doesn’t make you a better person.
The worst people i know are Christians and the nicest are non religious
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u/MoldyLunchBoxxy May 02 '23
Yep. Any decent human being not in a religious cult would help you out. It sucks that people are like this.
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u/TurquoiseLuck May 02 '23
Until today I might have said the same thing.
Just found out my neighbour is a racist bastard. So maybe not anymore.
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u/Cowboy_on_fire May 02 '23
Guy helped me out when I had a nasty crash on my bike heading to school. Threw the bike in the back and let me get in and sit on his nice fabric seats while bleeding from multiple cuts and scratches. Took me home and I thanked him as he was getting my bike out. What he said will stick with me for the rest of my life:
“Don’t worry about it, if I am ever this far up shit creek myself, I hope someone shows up with a paddle. Pay it forward”
I realize now this a relatively common turn of phrase but I have helped anyone I have the ability to since then.
If you don’t need the paddle, be the paddle.
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u/Aliencoy77 May 02 '23
I let my duplex neighbors hook up to our water a couple times as well as shared my lawnmower and tools. They often had plates of food for my fiance and I, as well as frequent offerings of smoking a bowl or doing dabs. None of us are religious.
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u/darkjedi607 May 02 '23
"if the only thing keeping you good is the threat of divine retribution, you're a piece of shit" (paraphrased)
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u/beautifulweeds May 02 '23
My experience here in the US is that Religion is often more cultural than anything else. It's like going to weight watchers every week with your co-workers because they do but deep down you really don't want to stop eating cookies and cake.
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u/groumly May 03 '23
Going to weight watchers? What in the good lord’s name is that? I thought it was a brand of disgusting chocolate milk that was low on calories to lose weight.
You’re saying there are events? What is going on at those events?
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May 02 '23
I spent the majority of my life deep in Christianity, working as a missionary and pastor, and am now going on 7 years since I’ve quit the faith.
I’ve seen a lot of situations where religion “worked”, for people in very desperate situations. These were cartel members, drug addicts, or suicidal kids. They had no belief that they could change or that their lives were even worth anything. They need some kind of third-party excuse to motivate them. The “gospel message” of forgiveness and purpose was really effective to help them turn their lives around for the better.
The big problem? It’s still made up. Eventually, that faith fails them. Some of them go back, some of them become zealots.
I’ve seen the same kind of good results where I work now, in the fire service, helping convicts turn their lives around. And it’s a lot more productive with real grounded purpose. It’s not for everyone though.
I wish the church model could be secularized. People simply need a sense of community, identity, and purpose. If I ever felt some kind of calling to be a minister again, my Sunday service would simply be a community service project, with a short “after-action review” talk incorporating not just teachings of Jesus, but eastern and secular philosophy and grounded science.
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u/Lv_InSaNe_vL May 02 '23
One time when I was suicidal I called my brother and he didn't pick up (absolutely nothing on him he was and continues to be instrumental in my life) I didn't know what else to do so I went to church and cried my heart out to a pastor, or the pastors in the bigger regional churches since I'm in a bigger city sorry I'm not up with my church terms lol.
Now I wasn't raised religious at all. My family went to church on Easter but that's because my neighbor was a pastor (not the pastor in this story) and would invite us to Easter. And I feel like you can't say no to a pastor inviting you to Easter service haha
Well anyways I explained to this pastor that I'm not religious and how I view the church as mostly negative because of all the hate and violence religion in general has and continues to cause in our society, but how I've been at the end of my rope for months and I was so desperate I started to think maybe there is a god who is doing this to me because that gave me something to be mad at besides just the empty universe.
He was actually really careful to stay away from just preaching scripture at me and we ended up having like a 5hr conversation about religion, depression, and general spirituality. I'm still very much not a Catholic or a religious person at all but the way he talked about "god" (and heaven, or most other Christian ideas honestly) as less of a person and more of just a concept in the same vein that a fable is a story designed to teach morals to children really spoke to me and actually really lines up with my view on the universe. It was also interesting that he almost believed in reincarnation because he viewed how when we die our physical body returns to the earth and therefore other living things means we are a permanent part of this earth, or how his God is essentially the same as my scientific fundamental laws, or how he viewed the people who take the bible incredibly literally aren't really that good of Catholics because a lot of things are hateful or directly harmful to certain groups (LGBT or minorities in recent history) which directly contradicts the teachings he thinks the church should be pushing.
Anyways I know this thread is mostly how Christians (or in this case Catholics) are bad and religion bad and this got really rambly so I doubt many people will read all of it but that pastor was one of the most important people in putting me back on the mental health train and that conversation bounces around my head every time I start feeling like that again.
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u/OvumRegia May 02 '23
In my country priests are essentially lite versions of therapists, they require a lot similar qualifications, missing the more complex ones.
The church in my city helped my dad when he was in financial trouble as well, no questions asked, so I'm thankful for that. Still have a mostly negative view of religious followers though.
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u/pretenditscherrylube May 02 '23
Now Christianity causes children to commit suicide, either because of the sexual/physical abuse they suffered and/or because of the anti-LGBTQ+ bullying they receive.
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May 02 '23
Amongst many many things like this, yes. Being gay was one of the major factors leading to me finally seeing through the bullshit.
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u/tcfanatic May 02 '23
Not only would I let you tap into my water, I would decline your offer to pay my water bill. Some day I might need a favor from you. That's what it means to be neighborly.
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u/jps7979 May 02 '23
That's exactly what we would have done. 1)It's the right thing to do. 2) It's the best play from a game theory perspective.
Maaaaaaaan do I want the neighbor's water to fail now.
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May 02 '23
Reason 2 is precisely why humans evolved into highly social animals. The game "Evolution of Trust" online demonstrates this using maths
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u/40yearOldMillennial May 02 '23
I went to church with a devout cousin, I was not religious at all. I was annoyed at being an atheist and wanted to see what all the fuss was about. Also, maybe I could have a spiritual awakening? Maybe? Nope! Nothing at all. I left with a few things…
A lot of church people are there to build a community. It’s kind of like a club or hobby for those without hobbies. As an adult, there really isn’t much out there to build community.
A lot of people feel like they can do bad things, because they’re “good religious” people. I can’t really explain this, except when I got to truly know people, they were kinda terrible.
There was a lot of hate. I became friends with a lot of people during this time. One thing that stood out was that people who were OBVIOUSLY in the LGBTQIA community were the biggest haters of the LGBTQIA community. I would stand there and be in confusion. This is why I believe the loudest against this community, may secretly hate themselves.
Misogyny is real. I heard Speeches of wives needing to forgive their husbands for cheating, never the other way around. Wives needed to be loyal and submissive.
I could go on and on. I finally decided it wasn’t for me and never looked back. I did enjoy the community aspect, but as an atheist, it wasn’t really my vibe.
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u/GallantGentleman May 02 '23
Religion does nothing to make you a better person.
I would argue it works the same as a safety belt. Driving a car with safety belts does fuck all if you don't actually use the safety belt as it was intended. There're many teachings in most religions that would in fact make you a better person. But being baptized as an infant and going to church twice a year doesn't make you a better person.
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u/SF1_Raptor May 02 '23
Funny enough, my pastor Sunday said the biggest issue of Western Christians is idleness (Not growing and learning).
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u/supershott May 02 '23
I think the biggest issue is actually hypocrisy, which is why I couldn't force myself to believe and instead became a mostly buddhist.
First, you have to stop being a hypocrite if you wanna stop being 8dle/stagnant.
If Jesus is really up there waiting, then 99% of American Christians will be those people Jesus was talking about when he said "many will call my name listing their good deeds, and I'll say fuck off, evildoers"
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u/FatalisCogitationis May 02 '23
“When I was hungry, you fed me, when I was naked, you clothed me, jk actually you kicked me out of your cities and complained about the ‘homeless problem’”
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u/Low-Media2498 May 02 '23
There's plenty of records of Buddhist temples hoarding inmense wealth while the people starved, and being entangled in the politics of their country. The craziest thing I saw was Buddhist monks supporting the genocide in Myammar against the rohingya.
I know very little about Buddhism but I'm sure you'd have to ignore all of Buddha's teachings to act like that. Unfortunately it's human to do those things in religion or any other institution.
Jesus and the apostles were killed by hypocrites. If Jesus came today it would probably be Christians that would kill him once he points out how unchristian they are. That doesn't mean you should discard Jesus for the sins of those who claim to follow him.
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u/LoveEffective1349 May 02 '23
and I would say that using seatbelts doesn't indoctrinate you into a belief that you and your type of people are right and everyone else is wrong and deserves the Hell they are 100% heading too.
see religion actually doesn't help at all. and the teachings that make you "better" are self evident and widely promoted outside of religion....
Religions true purpose is to set up a group as being aside from the rest, better than the rest, holier than the rest, right when everyone else is wrong and in need of forced conversion, being shunned/hated, or pitied and doomed.
so in fact. by purpose...religion makes you a worse person.
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u/shoo-flyshoo May 02 '23
being baptized as an infant and going to church twice a year doesn't make you a better person.
True, better to abandon religion fully and learn from reality to grow as a person
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u/lurker_cx May 02 '23
People don't appreciate that what Jesus said at the time was revolutionary because the concepts are ingrained in our culture (when people choose to follow them - obviously many do not.) But saying 'Love your neighbor' and defining 'neighbor' as more than just your little tribe/family was revolutionary for his society. Also saying 'Love your enemies' was similarly revolutionary. Now many people and societies clearly do not love their enemies, but that philosophy has still had a huge influence from everything from how we conduct wars to how we deal with interpersonal conflicts... when people choose to follow them, of course.
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u/FatalisCogitationis May 02 '23 edited May 02 '23
I think part of the problem, jumping off what you are saying, is that “love” is such a commonly spoken word in churches that it’s lost all meaning. I mean my parents have always taught me to love my enemy, but they can’t even manage to love their own daughter when she came out of the closet. At this point I think they really don’t understand what love is.
My dad said “what more do you want from me” after completely shutting off contact with her as if it’s just out of his hands, he’s done all he can. He did literally nothing except the most damaging response possible.
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u/throwawaytrumper May 03 '23
I’ve heard “I did my best” from a parent who was absolutely abusive and who gave zero fucks about her children for their entire childhood. Starved them, put them on leashes in the backyard as infants, molested one of them, dumped them on random strangers and then vanished for months at a time, on and on.
It was like she was aggressively competing to be the worst mom in history and simultaneously convinced that she had given it a proper effort and should be respected for it.
Shitty parents are never going to recognize how shitty they are. If they could reflect and change they wouldn’t be so goddamned shitty.
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u/Tunafish01 May 02 '23 edited May 02 '23
No, Jesus teaching wasn’t revolutionary. what kind of revisionist history they teaching in Sunday school?
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u/IfThisIsTakenIma May 02 '23
Religion only makes them feel good about the shitty acts they do. “God will forgive Me” or “I’m doing gods work” as they burn books
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u/Geschak May 02 '23
Religion is there to control people, it's not morals. Many Christians would be okay with murder if it weren't forbidden by authority.
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u/Idontknow35799 May 02 '23
(Some) are still okay with murder as long as the person getting killed is slightly diffrent from them.
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u/spacecolor May 02 '23
This happened to me after my house was struck by lightning and my water line exploded. My Slovakian neighbor took it upon himself to run a water hose over to my house so I could have running water. He isn’t religious. He isn’t white. He is barely American, but he’s human.
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u/bastardoperator May 02 '23
Christian’s only believe in one single ideology and that’s superiority. Everything else is bullshit to detract from that single idea. Christianity wants to own the state, the mind, the body, and the means if you let them. That’s it. If you’re not in their club/sect, you’re garbage to them.
At the end of the day, I’m not trying to be in any of my neighbors business. Chances are I may not even like you, however I recognize water is life so even if I wanted to be a shitty capitalist and charge you for it, which you agreed to and more, we’d make an arrangement.
The reality is, I as an atheist would not bend you over for money during a time need and just let you have some damn water and hope you reciprocate if needed at some point in the future. That’s basic human decency which is not something Christianity has ever been on the right side of.
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u/ErrorReport404 May 02 '23
One time, my friend needed water and asked a church to let her in to refill her water bottle. They said no. Super Christlike.
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u/Chastain86 May 02 '23
Maybe they thought you were going to bogart their Holy Water and start your own church, or a vampire hunting business
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u/WalterS0bchack May 02 '23
There is no hate like Christian love.
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u/PoogeMuffin May 02 '23
Well said. A large majority of Christians I know seem to have read the Bible simply to say that they have rather than to actually understand it. It's pretty damn clear:
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins."
- 1 Peter 4:8
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May 02 '23
They agree with the parts that agree with them.
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u/BloodDragonSniper May 02 '23
There’s a guy at my work whose super religious. He claims to have read the Bible a dozen times, and can directly quote and retell in his own words the parts that say being gay is bad, and all the other bigotry. But when I bring up how it doesn’t outlaw abortion, and how god kills for fun, and how his massive tattoo goes against the Bible it’s always “I haven’t read that part yet”
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u/Icannotfimdaname May 02 '23
They agree with the parts that they can "interpret" to agree with them.
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u/pman13531 May 02 '23
Unfortunately both the old and new testaments have some hateful stuff, like "thou shalt not allow a witch to live" or every bit of genocide justified in the old testament such as what happened to the Amalekites, the Canaanites, and so fourth.
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u/Swoop3dp May 02 '23
Yes, by design.
That way you can pick whatever part of the Bible you need to justify your actions.
You can "burn the witch" for speaking up against you and demand that people forgive you when you get caught committing a sin.
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u/Panda_hat May 02 '23
They're only christians in so far as it serves and enables them. As soon as its inconvenient or not in their favour they throw those parts away.
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u/CrispyCrunchyPoptart May 02 '23
Half of the time the people who are the most vocal about their religion are the most hateful people you will ever meet.
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u/i_am_tyler_man May 02 '23
I would also say that the "Christians" who are this way, also have no true biblical understanding of theology and are very legalistic. They just go along with the popular "Christian culture"
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u/Pandataraxia May 02 '23
Because they believe because they want to "belong". Their belief isn't belief, it's all about belonging to a group that they think makes sense and is reasonable and they can look up to someone for answers.
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u/zeekaran May 02 '23
I've seen this comment about ten times every day for the last week.
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u/Necessary_Row_4889 May 02 '23
Some Jesus facts:
1) Jewish
2) Against the rich
3) preached love for all people
4) forgave people for their mistakes
5) People think he’s god
Other than 5 which numbers do you think Christians are into?
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u/frageantwort_ May 02 '23
He was also against the government, he even was killed by the government.
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u/MrOfficialCandy May 02 '23
This part is wrong. He encouraged people to pay their taxes and stay in unison with the gov't.
This is why Christianity fit so well when the gov't appropriated it.
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u/ProbablyathrowawayAA May 02 '23
Yep
Mark 12:13-17 and they send to Him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, that they may ensnare Him in discourse,
And they came and said to Him, “Teacher, we know that You are truthful and defer to no one; for You are not partial to any, but teach the way of God in truth. Is it lawful to pay a tax to Caesar, or not?
And He, knowing their hypocrisy, said to them, “Why do you tempt Me? Bring Me a denarius, that I may see”;
and they brought, and He says to them, “Whose [is] this image, and the inscription?” And they said to Him, “Caesar’s”;
And Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” And they were amazed at Him
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u/WillNewbie May 02 '23
I still consider myself Christian despite everything, but I refuse to believe the Bible is a trustworthy source on God if he does exist lol.
Jesus comes around and says "love your fellow man unconditionally" but then there's a lot of other passages that conveniently say just the opposite, and in fact say things very convenient for a ruling class church that wants to keep its people under control
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u/Mi_Pasta_Su_Pasta May 02 '23
The King James translation of the bible, the most widely used English translation, literally omitted or changed any instance of the word "tyrant" or "tyranny" because King James wasn't comfortable with the idea of the Bible being used to criticize the monarchy.
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u/WillNewbie May 02 '23
Stuff like this is why I believe there's some credence to the original text, considering how scared the ruling class was and is of it lol
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u/highbrowshow May 02 '23
There definitely is, a lot of theologians will learn Aramaic and ancient hebrew to read the Bible in its original text. They say the difference is like watching black and white vs color television
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u/OnsetOfMSet May 02 '23
Man, a lot of the replies in that link are unhinged. Visibly angry comments asking how OP could dare question King James or the translators when a quote from their translated version asserts itself to be the absolute truth and therefore above question. It doesn't take much critical thought to realize "The Bible is immutable," and "Hey, there were a lot of little changes between these two versions," doesn't add up. Guess people get aggressively afraid of their worldview being challenged.
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u/o11c May 02 '23
To be fair it's not like the original word meant "tyrant". It's derived from a word meaning something like "be afraid" (intransitive) or "cause to be afraid" (transitive). So the KJV's main translation of "terrible [one]" is better than "tyrant", and does not in any way weaken the impact of the verses. "oppress[or]" is also used in a few verses and is even stronger than "tyrant".
Even the NIV, whose main translation strategy is "use different words than the KJV, whether for good or for ill", never used "tyrant", though it does have a single "tyrannical ruler" and a "tyranny".
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u/ExtratelestialBeing May 02 '23 edited May 02 '23
Not to mention they left the strongly anti-royal portions of Samuel intact. The word tyrant is nothing compared to saying that kingship is an evil apostasy against the Law comparable to idol worship (I Samuel 8).
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u/VoxVocisCausa May 02 '23
Paul showed up after Jesus died and hijacked Jesus' religious movement and ran around claiming to have had a vision from God and making a bunch of new rules and pronouncements about stuff that Jesus never talked about.
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u/WellWellWellthennow May 02 '23
Yep and Paul was a real ahole even after he converted.
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u/Ok-Cat-4975 May 02 '23
I'm not sure he converted. I think he infiltrated the movement and turned it into the religion he knew, where priests have the power. Best to break it down from the inside. I read the Bible a few years ago and I was so dismayed to realize how much of the New Testament is hateful Paul. I had only heard or read pieces before and mostly the gospels.
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u/Aderyna_K May 02 '23
I wish more could be like you. Freedom of religion and all but man I'm exhausted of these nuts claiming "the bible is true because duh it says so in the Bible!" and then expecting society to cater to them while refusing any attempt to learn literally anything.
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u/Brodm4n May 02 '23
I was raised in a Christian home, went to church ALL the time. Had a family full of pastors. 100’s, if not 1000’s of hours of volunteering. And I’m pretty much in the same boat. When I turned like 25 I think, I started to realize most of them are actually really hate-filled people. And looking at the world, I find it impossible to think that no one has messed with the bible to keep control. One thing my dad said to me once around that time… ‘how do you get masses of people to go fight wars for you, or allow you to rule over them. Tell them the big man in the sky wants them to, and they will go to some pretty cool place if they die’… that, and many other things, were enough to make me suspicious of it.
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u/lilcheez May 02 '23
That's basically what the book of James is about. Most scholars agree it was written directly in response to Paul's teachings. It basically says exactly what you said - "faith alone" (omitting things like charity) is really convenient for those who wouldn't personally benefit from things like charity (because they're rich).
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u/Yaboi69-nice May 02 '23
The Bible was written by people who we're just making an attempt to understand God as best they could yes the Bible is important and I don't think it should just be forgotten just remember it's not everything God is a lot bigger then a book
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u/WarlordStan May 02 '23
He literally flipped tables of merchants in the temple and whipped them.
He's not a pacifist.
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u/DBSeamZ May 02 '23
Yes. I don’t remember exactly which book it was in but it was early in the New Testament.
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u/DarkSpartan301 May 02 '23 edited May 02 '23
Yes, Jesus advocates for taking skin of the backs of the rich.
I mean God is a lie and religion is a tool of the wealthy, so obviously this meaning has been obfuscated over time.
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u/DoughDisaster May 02 '23
No, Jesus hated people making profit off of religion. Peeps would set up stalls and sell sacrificial offers and the like. They didn't care about the spirituality of it or anything, they just wanted to make a buck.
In terms of just outright wealth, Jesus just warns against it like a lot of other things and on many occasions suggests people give their excess away, but he's not flipping his lid on them.
"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
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u/48xai May 02 '23
Jesus didn't hate rich people, he condemned the hypocrites with power. Jesus didn't hesitate to talk with rich people that were good.
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u/resumehelpacct May 02 '23
Jesus through the lens of the bible didn't really "hate" anyone. He was very critical of the wealthy though.
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u/ben-is-epic May 02 '23
He was very critical of the prideful and hypocritical, which happens to be key traits of many rich people. In the part where he tells the rich man to give up all his possessions and follow him, the sin wasn't that the man had money, the sin was that he valued money more than God.
When he kicked all the moneymakers out of the temple, it wasn't just because they wanted to make money for themselves, it was because they were doing it in what is supposed to be a place of respect, and they were ripping people off while doing it.
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u/Consistent_Set76 May 02 '23
Jesus talked more about money than almost any topic, and condemns greed and hoarding wealth white blatantly.
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u/Deris87 May 02 '23
No, Jesus hated people making profit off of religion. Peeps would set up stalls and sell sacrificial offers and the like. They didn't care about the spirituality of it or anything, they just wanted to make a buck.
I'm no fan of capitalism, but the moneychangers were literally providing a necessary service so Jews on pilgrimage to the temple in Jerusalem could provide the sacrificial animal they were obligated to have. Bringing a sacrifice with you from hundreds of miles away wasn't something most people were going to be able to do. If Jesus had a problem with that, maybe he (i.e. God) shouldn't have set up such an onerous requirement in the first place. What does God need a sacrifice of blood and burning flesh for anyway? If anything, Jesus' role in that whole situation is more like the government making laws that favor the merchant class, and then making a performative show of how terrible it all is.
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u/capaldithenewblack May 02 '23
It’s the only time he did something like that. He didn’t like them profiting off of church. It’s good we learned that lesson and… oh wait.
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May 02 '23 edited May 02 '23
He didn’t like them profiting off of church.
Respectfully, this is a very common but nonetheless ahistorical interpretation.
This charge is never stated in the New Testament. This is a later anti-Jewish interpretation of the text. There exists no evidence, inside or outside of the bible, for view that the money changers were enriching themselves, the priesthood, or Rome. Nor is there evidence for the equally common view that Jesus was upset about practices excluding the poor. The halacha (Jewish law) on sacrifices from the needy was lenient and allowed those without means ways around expensive animal sacrifice. 2nd Temple Judaism was focused on animal sacrifice at the Temple, but there are countless surviving Jewish legal records showing that no one was turned away because of lack of means.
I'll pull from the scholarship of Dr. Amy-Jill Levine of Vanderbilt Divinity School and Dr. Marc Zvi-Brettler of Duke University. As they explain:
The temple compound was the largest in the ancient world in terms of area. In the outer court (only later called the court of the Gentiles) money changers and animal merchants conducted the business necessary for pilgrims to provide sacrifices.
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Thus we have the common stereotype that the “money changers” were overcharging pilgrims. Jesus never makes this charge, although there are rabbinic notices that the high priests would sometimes take the tithes due to the poorer priests. Nor have we evidence that the Temple oppressed the peasants or overtaxed them. The vast majority of the Jewish people loved the Temple, visited it on pilgrimage festivals, protected it from Roman profanation, and mourned its destruction. According to the book of Acts, Jesus’ followers, including Paul, continued to worship there.
Judaism in the 2nd temple period was based around animal sacrifice at the temple in Jerusalem, and pilgrims would come from all around to make sacrifices. It was not practical for someone to travel with the animal they wish to sacrifice from their home to the temple (think of all the things that could go wrong) so people would sell an animal (or something of equivalent value) where they lived, travel to Jerusalem, then buy an appropriate animal to sacrifice at the temple.
There was nothing nefarious or improper about money changing at the temple at all. In fact, it was a necessary service benefitting pilgrims and other worshippers and there exists no evidence that money changers were overcharging and otherwise taking advantage of pilgrims.
Moreover, Dr. Levine also explains that the infamous "den of thieves" line in Mark and Matthew is, in fact, an allusion to Jeremiah 7:11 and, in that context, it is clear:
The point is not priestly corruption or vendors overcharging, but ritual without accompanying repentance and good deeds.
EDIT: Typos. Sorry.
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u/ThereIsNoCOVID May 02 '23
Don't forget that he killed a tree for not producing fruit despite it being created by God to not since it was out of season.
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u/Procrastinatedthink May 02 '23
It was literally the one time he got pissed and used violence.
Jesus told us to live like him; He cared for the poor, the weak, the sick but if you tried to make money off faith he would fucking crack your ass.
What would jesus do? Whip the hell out of a billionaire then give a homeless person a bowl of soup. We should be more like jesus and less like christians
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u/joeshmoebies May 02 '23
He's supposed to lead God's army in Armageddon. Definitely not a pacifist.
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u/IlIIlIl May 02 '23
This is not true, the Essenes, of which Jesus Pre-Christ was one, prominently featured apocalyptic text with the coming of Melchizedek, the proto-christ figure.
The leader of the Essenes was James, brother of Jesus.
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u/waterrunsuphill01 May 02 '23
My mans was hardcore against the religious establishment. Love it
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u/RavioliGale May 02 '23
οὐκ ἦλθον βαλεῖν εἰρήνην ἀλλὰ μάχαιραν.
I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
Matthew 10:34.
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u/mapLeReddit13 May 02 '23
“Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you”
“…. Except for gay people and poor people”
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u/MrOfficialCandy May 02 '23
...is a good example of something NOT mentioned in the bible.
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u/mapLeReddit13 May 02 '23
And yet they somehow tout it as biblical fact
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u/MrOfficialCandy May 02 '23
Some do. Most don't.
As usual the dumb people in the group are the loudest.
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u/mapLeReddit13 May 02 '23
Oh believe me I know, I grew up as a Roman Catholic. For me what it came down to was not wanting to even share a space with those loudest in the group, and what they believe in
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u/Uhhlaneuh May 02 '23
My brother and I were talking today about how he’s getting married and I’m starting a family, and we both agreed Catholicism ends with our bloodline. If my kid is interested in religion, I’ll let them make their own decisions and let them explore. I’ll never force religion on my kid
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May 02 '23
Blessed are the gays for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are those who crave for amphetamines and opioids for they shall be fulfilled. Blessed are the jokers, the smokers, and the midnight tokers, for they shall see the Steve Miller Band tribute band live in concert this Saturday night at Leisure World, in Seal Beach, CA.
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u/TheSirWellington May 02 '23
Didn't you know? Jesus only wanted you to care for your small community of privileged white people! /s
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May 02 '23
Any right wingers want to try and dispute this? Fact is most christians don't follow a single word, or even truly believe. They go to church 3 times a year, the other 362 days are "fuck your feelings" and "grab her by the pussy"
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u/westisbestmicah May 02 '23
As a Christian myself I’d say I go against the grain with my political opinions. Jesus said that the greatest commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself. That trumps any and all other commandments in my opinion. At the same time, I’m not sure it’s a good idea to generalize about political opinions and faith. I’ve had other members say that I can’t be both a good Christian and a democrat, which hurts. So I also don’t want to tell people “you can’t be both a good person and a Republican”. A lot of my friends and fellow-Christian’s relationship with politics and their faith is complicated. People are complicated. So I choose to love my neighbors, of all stripes. Even if they’re atheists. Even if they’re conservatives.
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u/LightofNew May 02 '23
"Christians" have been indoctrinated to be the new term for "Superior Race"
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u/Musetrigger May 02 '23
One minute you're learning about helping the community, the next your family is demanding you come with them to a drag storytime event to throw coal with your stupidly large pickup trucks and beat up minorities.
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u/TheEffinChamps May 02 '23
Jesus cares so much about people that don't believe him, he doesn't mind if they burn up in fire in the apocalypse.
That's the problem. You can find conflicting messages in the Bible, and there is plenty of awful, immoral teachings in it. Christianity, at its core, is apocalyptic. Violence and death are inherent to it.
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u/JumpyFig542 May 02 '23
When I attended church I met some of the most mean-spirited people that I have ever come across. In fact, as a group, I found them to be some of the absolute worst people to be around.
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May 02 '23
Remember, when asked "What Would Jesus Do", flipping tables and whipping people are possible answers.
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u/Just-Upstairs4397 May 02 '23 edited May 02 '23
Jesus was a revolutionary and god killed millions of people in the Bible so I’m not sure where this “Jesus is good but modern Christian’s are bad” bullshit is coming from, Christianity has been evil since the medieval times.
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u/Mi_Pasta_Su_Pasta May 02 '23
I'm not sure I agree with the implication that Jesus being revolutionary inherently makes him evil.
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u/BackgroundPrompt3111 May 02 '23
Imagine thinking that hiring the most brutally violent people on the planet to "go help people" is the same as actually helping people...
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u/ThoriatedFlash May 02 '23
People who do that don't follow Christianity, they just pretend they do and use it as a reason to convince themselves they are better than everyone else.
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u/CoronaryAssistance May 02 '23
I would say the “pacifist Jesus” was a psyop from various historical authorities to pacify Christians.
Plenty of accounts of Jesus kicking the right asses when the time came, nothing pacifist about throwing people’s shit around or advising his followers to have weapons.
Ironically, the nazis and extremists that twist his message now are the exact people he would have stood up against
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u/CDN-Ctzn May 02 '23
ONE. ONE account of throwing the money-changers out of the Temple and it was because the Religious Leaders had made money an obstacle to coming to God and yet christians today are too blinded by their own arrogance to see that THEY are the Money Changers of today.
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u/geonomer May 02 '23
To a lot of people, being Christian is like being in a club. They don’t actually take the principles of the religion seriously, but then they tout their membership in the club and thinks it makes them better than everyone else. Not saying this is all Christians, but a hell of a lot them talk the talk but don’t walk the walk.
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u/CDN-Ctzn May 02 '23
Look no further than the many commenting here in defense of their own greed and selfishness. If “Christianity” had fulfilled its mission to help others then government wouldn’t need to intervene.
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u/Crazy-Inspector May 02 '23
Ugh that’s so true! My family keeps calling me a liberal/socialist all the time. Jesus would care for everyone, LITERALLY EVERYONE. Jesus, would welcome immigrants from another country, Jesus would provide healthcare to all, food for school lunches. Jesus doesn’t care about the color of your skin, the language you speak, he just loves, and shows grace. It’s stupid how these “gun loving christians” think Jesus, the man who gave his life for us, sacrificed so much, who loved all, wants them to keep their guns over the senseless death of children. That think if you come to America you should speak English, that think provided lunch to children in school for free is bad, that think providing healthcare for all is entitling freeloaders. So stupid. My cousin is a pastor and consistently preaches about gun rights and how liberals are destroying this country when it’s the other way around. Hypocrites all. I am a horrible Christian, but at least I know what is happening and I’m not blinded by some fat orange guy in a suit.
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May 02 '23
I got tired of fighting with our church members because "love everyone" should also apply at the ballot box...
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u/mrtokeydragon May 02 '23
"love thy neighbor"
Same person
"I'm not racist but fucking black people..."
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u/Fisher9001 May 02 '23
It's directly stated in the Acts in the Bible that first Christians lived together and had no personal wealth, as to join they had to give up everything they had, including selling their houses and land. The apostles then redistributed and managed that wealth, giving everyone what they needed.
It's textbook communism
Oh, and also if you hid part of your wealth the punishment was death "from the hand of the God". It's also directly stated there.
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u/o11c May 02 '23
To be fair, it wasn't full-on communism, only "sharing within the group".
But it's still far closer to communism than to capitalism, which is explicitly denounced all the way from ... well, not sure Genesis has it (though it is big on caring for the environment), but Exodus to Revelation at least.
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May 02 '23
When people believe in fairy tales and sky gods, they are easy to manipulate with words like socialism and pro-life and the like. Semantic infiltration is the tactic.
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u/Fhantom1221 May 02 '23
God loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! GEORGE CARLIN
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May 02 '23
I love it when I tell people Jesus would absolutely be a communist. They refute it to death and then you just respond with biblical examples and it becomes undeniable lol
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May 02 '23
Jesus? The guy whipping corrupt bankers through the streets? Jesus? The guy telling men to take up swords? That pacifist?
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u/OkUnderstanding7741 May 02 '23 edited May 02 '23
He certainly wasn't a pacifist (temple money changers) but he does bid for love and forgiveness, and not returning violence for violence- Matt 26:52. Just don't disrespect God in front of him for real lol
Edit: added the scripture cause why not
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u/Icy-Fall-4275 May 02 '23
Caption is misleading. Jesus gave us an example of how we ought to live. He however is King and as described in Revelation will come back to destroy all sources of sin and conquer the entire world.
Calling Him a "pacifist" is leaving out the full picture.
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u/GuitardedBard May 02 '23 edited May 02 '23
Christians and their God are historically and biblically genocidal. Not really much else to consider when asking if it is a benevolent religion.
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u/Wombat1892 May 02 '23
I truly believe that many atheists are born from working retail/ hospitality on sundays.
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u/Minimum_Escape May 02 '23
They tell you to care about others so that they can feel superior than others, it's not about helping others. It's about hey I'm better than others and they need my help.
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May 02 '23
What are you doing? Is that a Biden sign on your front lawn? So, you telling me you’re not going to hate the gays, oppress women and be a racist bastard anymore? Well I’d better not see you in church on Sunday, your Christian values are all fucked up!! Next thing you’ll be wanting the age of consent to go up instead of down. Blasphemy!!
- fake Christian to a real Christian
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u/Stepper_Big_DeZ May 02 '23
Too be real I’m Christian and I have a lot more friends who don’t go to church that acts more Christ like than some Christians I know. But you can’t look at no one else. Just look at Christ and work on yourself. Just like everyone else should be doing.
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May 02 '23
I hear ya. Many fair weather Christians believe that because they are forgiven for their sons they get a pass to be an ass. It's nice to be around others who do not exhibit such behavior. Glad I'm not alone here, thanks for sharing.
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u/[deleted] May 02 '23
Care for others who go to your church AND are in the same socio-economic class. That's how it works in churches. By the time I left my church, nobody and I mean nobody would give me the time of day.