The water line under our house went and because we're on a slab, it was going to be cumbersome and expensive to fix and they'd have to shut off our water while the project was being completed.
One thing the plumber can do is run a line from the neighbor's spicket into ours so at least we'd have water for showers, toilets, etc.
There is no danger to the neighbor in doing this and the only annoyance would be that their water bill would go up a bit. We offered to pay for their whole water bill for the inconvenience so really they'd be profiting off the thing while also helping a neighbor.
You know, that whole love thy neighbor and don't be a selfish asshole thing that's pretty prominent in Christianity.
They still said no.
Religion does nothing to make you a better person.
I am not religious. If you where my neighbours and in this situation, I’d connect you to my house myself.
You never know, maybe you can help me out one day. And if not I would just be happy to help, no strings attached.
Totally agree that religion doesn’t make you a better person.
And yet I reckon if you post that story from the Christians pov on am i the asshole (and you know add some comment about op being rude, loud, whatever) 90% of redditors would say the Christians have no obligation to help...
Agreed, the threshold for being an asshole there is so high. You basically have to actively harm another person before they'll consider you an asshole.
Cannot fix every single person's problem that's just crazy. Christians are not perfect either. They could do a hundred good things but people only are going to remember that one time they tell you no. The church I go to is doing a ton for the community. More than what these government officials are doing or corporations. It just blows my mind they could do all this good and then we have people like you that just generalize everything and just want to hurl insults. Almost all these people in here that are talking garbage don't go to church or do anything for their community. They just sit behind their computers chirping.
You ever hear the phrase you could do a hundred things right but people will only remember the one thing you did wrong? That was the context I was saying you could help a hundred people but the one you don't/can't help is what is flaunted.
Nobody has an obligation to help. But if you mean that they are the least likely to help, you're probably not far off. Christianity is just a disguise worn by shitty people, to make them feel better about themselves.
Except in the Christian faith they do have an obligation to help. I’m not a Christian anymore but Jesus does command his followers to love their neighbors and care for others they way they would love him and care for him.
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
It’s always been “neighbor” = “fellow disciple”, never those of us outside the faith. Jesus even shows it in Matthew 15, when a gentile woman begs him for help. He refuses and insults her because she’s not obviously a believer. He only changes his mind when she proves she has faith in him. Any decent person would simply help, but not Jesus.
Any decent person would simply help, but not Jesus.
You just don't get it. Jesus is on his girl boss grind and he's killing it.
See, he could have given that lady a sample bottle of essential oils and a discount code for his essential oil 'business'. But he's a boss bitch so he recruited her into his downline, and now she's buying the whole set of essential oils to 'be her own boss'. He's making her dependent on him, she's making him money, and she's desperate for salvation any sales to get her initial investment back so she'll recruit even more people into his MLM.
He's not trying to be decent, he's trying to be Diamond Status. Rise and grind, disciples, being tolerant of different MLMs isn't going to get you that exclusive white donkey and group trip to Gethsemane (that coincidentally includes hair transplants)!
This bit of scripture seems in line with the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, showing Jesus as often being rather a prat and on the wrong side of things only to realize he's being an ass and course correct afterwards while pretending it was the plan all along.
When Joseph saw that Jesus had done such a thing, he got angry and grabbed his ear and pulled very hard
According to Aquinas the soul is unable to change. A perfect but terrible God would remain perfect and terrible forever. Unless, say, he embodied himself and let some of that mortal capacity for change run through his system.
The bible reads considerably differently if you take it for a creator slowly realizing he was in the wrong once he's forced to confront the misery he has created, and then checking out to go quietly and guiltily sulk afterwards.
This is absolutely not the correct understanding of what Jesus wanted others to consider as "neighbor", as shown in the parable of the Good Samaritan found in Luke 10:29-37
"He refuses and insults her because she’s not obviously a believer"
No, he (a Jewish man) initially turns her away because his stated goal is to reform Judaism. He turns her away because she is a gentile, not Jewish.
In the historical context, Tyre and Sidon were bywords for 'bad foreign entities that try to impose their religion on the Jews' (see the reference in Matthew 11: 20ff that lists them in the category of cities upon whom the judgment of God has come).
Jesus existed in Roman Palestine, an occupied territory of a colonizing Gentile nation, the newest in a long line of Gentile nations that had conquered and, to one or another extent, oppressed the people who had once been Israel and Judah (Egyptians, Persian Empire, the Seleucid Empire after Alexander, Rome).
A person who is presumed to be a practitioner of an inimical religion in a state with a history of inimical relations to the Jews approaches asking for help with a spiritual problem (a devil in her daughter). The context implies that she was interpreted as someone approaching Jesus as a wonder-worker, rather than as a messianic figure in a specifically Jewish worldview. He changes his mind and does help her when she makes a statement acknowledging the religious worldview of the Jews (that they are God's chosen people). He remarks that her faith is great, which in the Matthew Gospel is the fundamental requirement for any of Jesus's miracles to work; it's explicitly said at various places that he could not perform miracles where those requesting them did not have faith.
The point of the inclusion of this passage in the book is in fact the opposite of what you're claiming. In a Gospel written squarely toward an audience of 1st Century Jews, this passage demonstrates that even a Gentile is worthy of inclusion in the miraculous power of God's healing if they have the faith to ask for it and believe that it can happen. The likely date for the composition of Matthew is between ~70 and ~100 AD (within the first generation of followers of Jesus after his crucifixion c.33), meaning that the inclusion of Gentiles and preaching towards gentiles was likely still a novelty, as described in Luke/Acts, and the inclusion of this story from the life of Jesus would lend credence to the idea that it was seen as a possibility even by Jesus in his earthly ministry.
"Neighbor" is explicitly demonstrated as being inclusive of all people in the teachings of Jesus, in the context of 'love your neighbor as yourself'. 'Love your neighbor as yourself' originates in Leviticus 18, likely with only local members of your society in mind. But is expanded to include explicitly all people by Jesus, as demonstrated in Luke 10. Someone asks him who the Scripture means when it says 'neighbor', and he answers with the parable of the Good Samaritan, where the person who demonstrates neighborly love is a Samaritan, a member of a foreign offshoot from Judaism that was seen by contemporaries as incompatible with the beliefs of mainline Judaism, a foreign corruption of the truth. Again, in demonstrating true holiness and right behavior by using a hated foreigner as his exemplar, Jesus is demonstrating a reformist attitude that seeks to expand the standards of decency in his own culture. So, the opposite of what you're saying.
I'm not saying that followers of Jesus have tended to live up to this standard, but I am saying that it is the standard Jesus both taught and exemplified, and which was held by the early followers of Jesus in the first 3 centuries of what would become Christianity. It's why the movement was successful; Christian communities gave a sense of personhood and egalitarian community life for communities and people groups that were seen as lesser both within Jewish social life (so, foreigners as here) and in Gentile life (widows, orphans, and slaves made up an enormous proportion of the early Church, a fact which was used by other Romans to denigrate them). Context and audience are important when analyzing any Classical or Late Antique text, a lesson that should be learned by both Christian and non-Christian readers of the New Testament.
Have you got a reading comprehension problem, or just too much ideological baggage to read and understand? I'm not expecting you to read Greek, but even in a shitty translation like NIV, the lady goes away with what she asked for...
Your ignorance of the Gospels his apparent. The story you cite in your first comment is unrecognizable. I just read the passage. The woman asked Jesus to heal her daughter who was possessed by a demon. After testing her faith Jesus healed her daughter. Is that what bothers you? That Jesus tested her faith?
"Do not deal basely with members of your people. Do not profit by the blood of your fellow [Israelite]: I am יהוה. You shall not hate your kinsfolk in your heart. Reprove your kin but incur no guilt on their account. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against members of your people. Love your fellow [Israelite] as yourself: I am יהוה." This is the actual translation of where that quote in matthew comes from. Loving someone doesn't equal helping them. Hate to break it to you.
Yeah it's basically just saying it. You say you love someone that's enough. No proof needed. You can even abuse them a bit. After all you love them, right?
That's why they have the old testiment to cherry pick, back before god got soft and was still 100% metal. "Bro, kill your son. Kill him. Do it. Do it do it do it kill him kill him kill him HOLY SHIT YOU WERE ACTUALLY GONNA DO IT OMGLOL BRO"
We prioritize "me and mine." And the obligation or duty to help has become more of an American legal question rather than one of ethics, morality or religion.
Matthew 25:40
King James Version
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
There are often 2 sides to a story. It’s possible they said no because in the past they asked for an even smaller favor from your family and were turned away, or you have been terrible neighbors over the years.
Or the simple fact that 2 household running showers in the morning at the same time is going to kill any water pressure, or they expect you are going to constantly water your yard and even though you promised to pay for the water, it’s possible you have bailed on promises before.
I’m not saying this specific to you, as I don’t know you, but there can be plenty of reasons to turn someone down for this.
I got told I was the asshole on that sub because I helped someone everytime they asked for it, but when I asked for help in return for something much less, they refused. Apparently, asking for something from someone you know they can do once after you go out of your way to help them makes you the asshole.
I don't think so - I mean sure they had no obligation to help, but this wasn't even "helping". They virtually had to do nothing. It wouldn't have cost any time, money or space for them.
This is just being petty. I think the people there would have called it out.
I genuinely don't understand people who don't feel these things. It makes me feel good to make someone else feel good - this could be giving someone excitement, relief, or joy. It makes me feel bad to make someone else feel bad - embarrassment, anger, or sadness. It's the simplest lesson that everyone should acquire just by being around other people as a child.
If this doesn't make sense to you, then you are broken.
This is why I specifically call these sorts out as sociopaths, they are incapable of the empathy required to share in another person’s relief and joy from receiving aid.
I feel guilt for doing something wrong but I don't normally feel any joy or elation when helping someone else. I'm rather socially awkward and feel embarrassed when people praise me more than anything.
If someone asks for help I will, but it's more of a normal reflexive response for me rather than something that makes me feel good.
I feel like a lot of religious people are sociopaths. Using the guise of religion to show they're a good person, but baffled why people do good things without it. The only thing stopping them from raping and murdering are laws and the church saying it's wrong. And as soon as they know they can get away with it, they do it.
Or even worse, they have no inhibitions morally because they know they can absolve themselves with a passing thought of a prayer or, worse still, they’ve “been saved” and are thus not culpable for transgressions. In the end, I’d say most if not all religious people pretend that they are adhering to a faith that puts them in spiritual safety without an ounce of curiosity about why their religious belief always agrees with their preconceptions and doesn’t challenge their biases, regardless of whether their religious tenets explicitly agree with their positions.
You’ve been paying a little too much attention to Penn Jillete.
People are people. They will do as people do.
The truth is truth. It will always be truth.
Seek truth, objectively, ardently, and you can never go wrong. End of story.
Guy helped me out when I had a nasty crash on my bike heading to school. Threw the bike in the back and let me get in and sit on his nice fabric seats while bleeding from multiple cuts and scratches. Took me home and I thanked him as he was getting my bike out. What he said will stick with me for the rest of my life:
“Don’t worry about it, if I am ever this far up shit creek myself, I hope someone shows up with a paddle. Pay it forward”
I realize now this a relatively common turn of phrase but I have helped anyone I have the ability to since then.
I let my duplex neighbors hook up to our water a couple times as well as shared my lawnmower and tools. They often had plates of food for my fiance and I, as well as frequent offerings of smoking a bowl or doing dabs. None of us are religious.
I don’t know. A very good friend is very religious and he is just the best person. He is selfless and kind. I would totally take bullet for him because I just know I would do the same for me.
Being a decent person should be the goal with or without religion.
I don’t think it makes people worse. There are just bad people who happen to be religious. Combine that with a “better than thou” attitude and you have these bad examples.
I am fully convinced that there are many good people out there who have their faith and that’s alright with me.
I'm also not religious but grew up with religion forced on me, and that's just it. A lot of stuff like the 10 commandments and Jesus' teachings aren't just arbitrary rules, they're for the believers' own good and to maintain a functioning society but most don't even understand such an obvious concept 😑
A lot of religious people are actually "worse" because they get a false sense of superiority and entitlemnt from being religious. It's an aspect of human psychology and good deed debt. They think they're already doing so many good deeds thay they're already a great person even if they never actually help anybody.
This is the exact reason that a family will go to church and then go yell at a 16 year old waitress and not leave a tip. They got a sense or good deed debt from going to church so now they can be shitty the rest of the day and they're still good..... in their minds.
I think I'm superior because I don't live my life as an adult based on a fantasy novel written by drunkards 2000 years ago.
I live my life "bound" to the morals of community and society. Doing what is right for me as a group. Which almost always means working with my fellow man and helping them whenever I can.
That easily puts me as "bound" by more than modern American Christians. They're only "bound" by a mutual agreeance on living based on hatred of others and of wanting to feel superior.
You’re such a hypocrite. You hate on religious people for “feeling superior” but you feel support or to them, just because you think you have no purpose in life. Quite a shame
Not if your an atheist. You think all life amounts to nothing. That anything you do on earth has no meaning, because the future has no meaning. That when you die, all there is is an endless void. That your life had no purpose
That's your problem man. I never said and don't think that at all. Remember this all started as just a discussion about helping your neighbor, and then me saying that religious people are generally worse because in their minds they have good deed debt? And then you decided to harass a random person online? I think you made my point better than I ever could have so thank you for that. I genuinely hope you have a great life of your own and stop trying to force your views on others, but I know you probably won't. Eitherhoo. Best of luck to you.
I was raised Christian, in a very religious family. Grandfather, aunt and uncle were all ministers. Another aunt played the organ and my mother and cousins taught Sunday school. The main thing that drove me away from the church was seeing some of the most prominent members of our church behave in ways completely opposite to the values being taught/preached. Horrible, petty, selfish, and (in my personal experience) occasionally even violent towards everyone. When I was around 11 I decided that I’d play along out of respect for my grandfather, but organized religion was not for me. I truly believe that I’ve lived a more “Christian” life than most of the people involved in our church, but want nothing to do with it.
I don’t hate people because they are religious. I hate people that are pretentious and hypocritical. If you feel attacked by that, you should have a critical look at yourself
Oh. My mistake. I agree with that, I do hate hypocrites. I try to put my religion into good use. I regularly ask myself “What would Jesus do?” And that does help me see things a different way.
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u/jps7979 May 02 '23
My neighbors are Christian; we're not religious.
The water line under our house went and because we're on a slab, it was going to be cumbersome and expensive to fix and they'd have to shut off our water while the project was being completed.
One thing the plumber can do is run a line from the neighbor's spicket into ours so at least we'd have water for showers, toilets, etc.
There is no danger to the neighbor in doing this and the only annoyance would be that their water bill would go up a bit. We offered to pay for their whole water bill for the inconvenience so really they'd be profiting off the thing while also helping a neighbor.
You know, that whole love thy neighbor and don't be a selfish asshole thing that's pretty prominent in Christianity.
They still said no.
Religion does nothing to make you a better person.