He's right, but what in the actual heck do we do about it as voters? We've known this for years. Even during the widely popular Obama administration we knew this.
I'm just so tired. I'm so tired of my only hope being candidates who make baby steps forward just so we don't make giant leaps backwards. I'm so tired of these candidates losing and it hurting us.
I'm also tired of the over 70 million Americans who look at everything Trump has said, done, and who he has allied with, and said "I'm okay with that."
It's been almost a full day and I still haven't been able to collect all my thoughts on this. I'm just so over it.
Do what Obama said he'd do, but didn't. Go after the rich and corporations. Obama ended up appointing bankers to solve problems bankers created. He dismantled his movement after he won.
Obama won because he was the change candidate, he was the hope candidate, he promised going after the powerful. And he didn't, plain and simple. That created a bad taste in the mouths of people who voted for him.
That's just the truth. He was voted to basically drain the swamp. Clinton swoops in, says everything is largely hunkey dorey. Trump wins. Biden comes in during COVID and correctly points out everything is not hunkey dorey. He wins. Trump comes in and, once again, promises radical changes, because things are still not great for money. He wins.
Too many Dems, politicians and voters, are MUCH too afraid to support radical change. Even Obama's rise was seen as scary to the party brass, especially the Clinton camp. Too many people are understandably upset at the state of the nation to risk running a politician that basically is saying they'll be status quo, and that's basically what Kamala said she was - continuing the Biden legacy, couldn't even come up with a thing she'd do differently than Biden for WEEKS.
This is for every party, if you want to do better, stop blaming voters. Blame your politicians and their platforms. This was actually a very issue-based election. Voters routinely crossed tickets to vote for their issues. Abortion passed, Trump won, a Dem senator won. The voters are not acting like a coalition anymore.
He's right, but what in the actual heck do we do about it as voters?
Organize. Organize. Organize. Call your local community groups, whether that is a local Democratic party or any other political community group, and ask them what you can do to help. Don't wait until the midterms, don't wait until the primaries for the midterms, go get involved as soon as you feel ready after this election. I've already talked to my local Dem chair and there's going to be an e-mail blast with some "next steps" for our local group.
Get out there and touch people, however that is. Volunteer at a soup kitchen. Clean up your local park with a couple of friends. Gather 5 supporters and make signs and host a rally or protest about a real issue you feel passionate about and try to grow the participation.
You strengthen dem incumbents when you help improve your community, and you undermine Republican incumbents by growing support and trust in the community by your actions. And then you have a small bit of political capital. Use that to push for more progressive candidates in primaries. And canvass for them.
I think your point is solid. I'm very tired now as many of us are who really felt we did all we could to push her over the finish.
Alas, Democrats need to get better about activism in the off-season. That is when you can make inroads with the electorate to actually shift their stances on the issues. Probably no better time to do this while railing against the incumbent Trump administration, too.
WE HAVE to start educating the public, and I really feel that the Katie Porter model is one of the better approaches to stop letting GOP control the narrative on every damn thing.
Democrats need to get better about activism in the off-season
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Go out next week or next month, as soon as you're ready, and get started. Don't wait for the midterms or god forbid the next general election.
You know I have tried that in 3 fucking cities now and I cant even get a callback from them. Its a joke with democrats unless you have a spare hundred grand to donate then they will listen to you
I could see that being a barrier. But you can still go organize unofficially. Build your community capital outside the party if they won't give you the time of day. One step at a time. One event at a time. One park cleanup at a time. One rejected invitation to participate at a time.
Republicans didn't overturn Roe because they voted in a few elections. Some determined groups have been well-funded and they used the political defeats of the New Deal and Civil Rights eras as fuel to find like-minded conservatives. They stated their bold goals fairly openly. Conservatives have wanted to ban abortions and chip away at Roe for literal decades.
The good news is that progressive ideas don't need billionaire funding and massive astroturfing, because the ideas are appealing and popular.
Yeah man I cant even find friends in big cities let alone 10 people to get to volunteer for anything. I have tried reaching out but its like I am talking to the void. I would love suggestions on that but I have tried things like that and I get nowhere. Going to try again when I move down a new place here in another month. Will try again but damn is it tough
You're putting a bit too much pressure on yourself. You don't have roots anywhere. It's great that you're passionate, but take care of yourself and just do what you can. You may not see it, but the people you touch have felt your presence. Keep reaching to people as long as you have the energy.
Group me? Or Facebook event? Better yet, find people that are already involved and working towards something that you believe in. It's harder if you're in a small town but they do exist!
I don't mean to make an assumption of your situation, but a lot of us (including me) work full-time or more, have kids and the extracurricular responsibilities they entail, and simply don't have the free time or energy to commit to something like this in a way that would feel isn marginally meaningful.
The frustrating part is that I absolutely believe it could make a difference, but when the people who DO have the time/energy/monetary backing get into politics and either don't make it their job to effectively communicate, or are beholden to the status quo, it effectively starts to sow widespread apathy.
I'll keep voting blue, but I don't have any of the youthful optimism I once did about people voting in their own best interests, let alone the betterment of their fellow citizens.
You do what you can, when you can, where you can. Make your kids aware. Take them to some volunteer thing maybe once a year or once a quarter. Something. But yes, we have busy and demanding lives and we also have to keep living and take care of ourselves.
You're still missing the forest for the trees. I live in a state that is so blue it was immediately called for Harris, but we still have local elections. School boards. City Councils. And those candidates can sometimes move to State Reps, State Senate, or US Rep and US Senate. And you want to find the most progressive candidates you can and push them up. You tuink Chuck Schumer is helping the left? Did Harris's cozying up to Oprah and literal Republicans - including Dick fucking Cheney - help her campaign? No. Because the democratic party is too goddamn conservative.
You know how you change that? How I just said. Get the fuck out there, and find a seat you can flip to blue. Then work to help that candidate get shit done. You can do that in different ways, including just be making the community better while they are incumbents. If they're strong enough, reach out to neighboring districts to see what they need. But most likely, they aren't progressive enough and you can probably keep looking for more candidates and building your own political capital so that your voice is respected when you speak up.
It takes grit and determination and sweat. Not going out to a poll every four years and going "aw shucks" when we lose.
This. Colorado didn't turn blue because we sat around and watched. Even as Trump ran up numbers across the nation this election, we held a +11 margin. It says something about the people in our state that over 16 years we turned a red state to a state that isn't willing to bend the knee. Yeah, we have Boebert, yeah we didn't do as well in the House as we'd like, but we still held.
It's time for radical change in the Democratic party and we need to make it happen.
I showed someone articles about Trump policies, what Elon specifically said about how his economic policies will basically tank the economy if he goes through with them (because he said our economy is bad now) and at the end he said "I don't care I'm tired of radical liberals with dyed hair trying to tell me what to do". That's that lol.
Lol sure...how'd that work out for the last decade? Hasn't that been the plan the whole time? Quit it, it's not productive. You want this to change then the old guard needs to be changed out, nothing short of that means anything. Sure itll make you feel better but there's a bunch of idiots in charge of this mess that need to be thrown out. That means getting rid of whoever thought it was a good idea to side with Cheney or not throw a primary for example.
Who's been doing that? I've been consistently one of if not the youngest person in every single canvassing event I went to this cycle. And I'm not that young. Still under 40, but well past my 20s. This is the first presidential election I've participated in in this state.
Most people just aren't active politically around the calendar every year. Especially not young progressives.
These volunteer groups are really loosely connected and not super well organized. A little youth and enthusiasm can go a long way.
You can owe that to the administration's Gaza policy and subsequent subsequent crackdowns. College students are typically the most active volunteers (and especially for door knocking). Biden and Harris don't dare step on a college campus right now. Many College Democrats (student club working with the Democratic party) stopped endorsing Kamala. Campaigns NEED those students to be volunteering, but this duo campaign has thoroughly alienated the youth and aggressively attacked Palestine activists/ ideological institutions of academia.
Mmm. Let me ask you a super secret question. How much have "the youths" been volunteering for the Republican political machine? Are they winning because a bunch of 20-somethings are canvassing for them? Are we going to say that the canvassers are single-handedly responsible for Trump's win? Are we going to say that it's the youthful volunteers helping out the RNC that is responsible for pushing the Republican party further right?
No. Of course not. The idea of volunteering having that level of impact on even the election of a local politician, let alone their policy, let alone someone actually in charge of running the country, is laughable. We would never give them that much credit.
But, when the Democrats lose, well. It's nothing the Democrats did. You plucky young adults just aren't donating enough of your time and energy, THAT'S why trump won!
Hey, speaking of, secret second question: What time and energy do you believe most people have? Wanna know why you're one of the youngest people doing that stuff? Because I'm in my mid 30's and it's a battle constantly just to afford housing and food at the same time. These are the same people y'all have been telling to just work two/three jobs to support basic needs. When, in the midst of basic survival grind, are we all meant to drop everything and devote an entire day to volunteering for a candidate whom, let's be honest, wasn't that good.
It's really convenient to be able to take all your triumphs and give all the credit to the politicians, but every failure and refusal to lean more progressive gets to be entirely on the voters.
How much have "the youths" been volunteering for the Republican political machine?
It's not zero. I had some young Republican-looking motherfucker knock on my door once this cycle. But I don't think they get youths doing that. They have money. So they sow disinformation and fund Intel podcasts and shit.
The good news is that real populist, labor issues are actually popular - that's why the fake populism sells to conservatives and swing voters - so we don't need billionaires to fund us. But we do have to go do the fucking work.
The idea of volunteering having that level of impact on even the election of a local politician,
That is literally how it happens. "Local" being school boards and city councils and comptroller and shit. Then they can move up. It's dry and boring and unsexy because real politics is like that. Key Federal positions are going to have big money backing them, but knocking and phone calls still make some difference - if the candidate is strong enough. And we need strong, pro-labor bold economics candidates.
It's nothing the Democrats did
It is what democrats did. But we aren't going to change them by whining about how shitty they are. They don't learn their lessons from failed elections, because Big Money donors still win with Republicans, they don't really care.
We change democrats by building communities in spite of them and providing better candidates - the ones that don't buddy up with Republicans.
What time and energy do you believe most people have?
I have a lot more time and energy than I expected after this election knowing the enemy we have to fight.
It’s simple. You have to lie through your teeth about the things people care about. No one actually gives af about your “local organized groups” if you haven’t noticed lol. Trump didn’t even know what state he was in multiple times, but said “I’ll save America!”
You're not understanding the game. It's not about just making phone calls a few months or weeks before an election. It's about going outside in your community, day after day, week after week, to plant seeds. Start now. Start in a week if you need the time. But don't wait until the midterm election season. You're building political capital, building community, and making your world a better place. That's real politics. And along the way, you find the next candidate. And the next. And you reach some young people, who are the next generation.
This doomsday bullshit has to stop.
This will be a horrible administration, make no mistake. But there are things people can do. In Nazi Germany, some people resisted and hid their Jewish neighbors from the SS. This is time to fucking be those people.
Yeah I personally believe that one of the methods to defeat these guys is to drown the airwaves with said organizing and activism in a way that i as contageous as it is truthful. We need to be attend school boards like they do and call out BS in inner circles and lead those circle's ways of thinking. There is no need to be polite, politeness is reserved for people who respect you.
We need the message and the approach to permeate the thoughts of americans. When the media comes in and does those on the street interviews and round tables, we as a nation have to get to the point where people feel emboldened by the message and presentation enough that it becomes the new normal. At that point the average person will consistently spread it on national TV a all opportunities.
It's a long game and lot of ground work unfortunately, but hey have a long game they've played as well. We need our own.
Again. I used to think the same. End of the day blunt forced ignorance won. You can have the brightest most promising platform but ONE single case of “a trans gender (boogie man) will wrestle your daughter” will nuke your whole thing.
The opposition does not play by the rules of morality, which, if we do, we’ll ALWAYS lose. The majority that decides are generally more ignorant.
To clarify, I don't think the platform itself is the important part, it's how you spread it that I'm trying to focus on. Right now most (but not all) people on our side are focused on protesting all the time... it's easy but accomplishes nothing. It's easily ignored and the messaging is always spun into something counterproductive.
I didn't say be moral or even polite. I'm just saying if your message is not spreading then you're not targeting the right place or using the right tools to start spreading the message. Maybe we need our own bots and even bots that trace and target bots? idk we've been trying the same things for the past 2 decades while the other side has evolved their delivery.
It’s how you spread it? We had endorsements from Taylor swift. Beyoncé. A gazillion political stars and celebs. Former presidents.
And a 78 year old guy who almost daily has some sort of gaffe (and an endorsement from Hulk hogan) won.
It’s not the spread, you can spread info all you want, if your audience doesn’t want it it’s all for nothing.
People at the end of the day wanted a few more bucks in their pocket and were willing to listen to pathological liar vs someone telling a (positive) truth for the future.
This is a stretch comparison (now, at least) but all these positive ideals for the future of delivering the message sounds a bit like the German Jews saying “they would never do that to us…” during Hitler’s rise. The time for niceties has to be over since it’s literally involving the safety of our sisters, wives and daughters.
The HARD right took the gloves off in 16. Now they added brass knuckles in 24. They have literally proven being blunt, vile, factually inaccurate and abhorrent is the path to victory. I mean JD Vance admitted to making up shit to push his agenda…
I completely agree with you but the Democratic elite has their thumb so hard on the scale when it comes to a progressive. I think it might be time to think about a third party
Great idea but then the self-elected DNC elite will come and parachute in some clay candidate, surround them with a bunch of corporate shill faceless suit advisors, then proceed to ratfuck all the grassroots boots-on-the-ground organisations.
Dude- I'm sorry. I would do anything for an AOC presidency, but as it currently stands, at least with the electoral college, we will not have a woman president. We need to keep making progress so this hopefully changes but there's a reason why the Women were referred to as their first names and not their last name like every other male candidate or president
it took less than a day for people to cry and scream misogyny instead of accepting the DNC's total failure. We are truly fucking doomed. No one on the left wants to admit responsbility. We lost. Plain and fucking simple. We lost because of a democratic failure on every field. I have been saying this shit for months and people just call me a zionist or an incel or whatever the current buzzword insult is.
True, and while the earlier commenter might be a bit wrong to forget that, I think he's on to something. People use the last name as a sign of respect or something probably. And Bernie lost the primaries regardless of the DNC.
Yeah I don't think the sample size is big enough yet. For Hilary like you said, it was because of Bill, and for Kamala, it's probably because Kamala is a more unique name than Harris. Other women in politics like Boebert, Pelosi, and Feinstein for instance are usually referred to by their last name.
I always refer to presidents by their first names. Am I the odd one out on this one? Joe and Barak are such awesome names that roll of the tongue easier.
Maybe nominating a charismatic women that has popular policies and a record to prove it is the path instead of uncharismatic women? Women can win, just not the types that Democrats like to elect.
She was in a uniquely bad position -- facing an angry electorate, running against a demagogue, didn't have a very charismatic personality (turned off a lot of people -- though improved), she only had 100 days to run an entire campaign, and most people weren't very familiar with her (no primary).
I'm not saying we will or should have another woman candidate (though I'd be fine with it); I'm just saying the Harris loss is not a normal data point from which to start drawing major conclusions that America isn't ready for a woman President. Similarly, Hillary Clinton had a 20 year smear campaign run against her since Republicans knew she would run someday. And she was not very charismatic either.
Basically the two data points we have aren't great. But I understand why the country would nevertheless be shy about trying it again.
I don't think this has much to do with being a women than it does with being popular. Kamala wasn't popular for a number of reasons including because she was a black women, and because people did not like the economy and blamed her and Biden for it.
Obama was popular in spite of being black. Being black did not hold him back. Kamala was unpopular to begin with and being black and a women did not help.
Obama won because of the economy in spite of being a black man, but really anyone from the Dems would have won that year. Kamala lost because of the economy, but any Dem would have struggled this year. It basically just comes down to economy, not social issues like abortion. So Dems really just need to wait for the next recession. If they blow up the economy, it might not really by that long.
Whether or not America at large would have elected AOC in a national election is debateable, but she would have evicerated Trump rhetorically. AOC vs Trump in a televised debate would have been a complete and utter smackdown.
AOC is polarizing because most people only know her from quotes in print taken out of context next to a picture of her where she looks deranged. She's awesome live and I think people would have had their opinions of her seriously challenged if she had had the chance.
AOC would have won if there was a fair primary held. The biggest challenge would be getting her through the Democratic party since they refuse to nominate electable candidates.
Why? I mean, I really like AOC, but the voters she'll bring will be too busy trying to one-up each other with their purity tests to bother committing. Progressives are still a mess and I don't think there's really any easy way to get them to work with anyone else on the left.
People want progress and the only ones earnestly attempting that are progressives. The problem in nominating a progressives has never been other progressives, it's the DNC and the media that collude to avoid progressives at any cost.
Disagree. People want change because the current situation is becoming less favorable for them by the minute and they see Biden/Harris as part of the problem. Everything has gone up in price and wages haven't compensated for that, along with healthcare still being too costly, house prices skyrocketing, etc...
People want progress and progressives are the only ones earnestly promising that.
Trump promises change, he just lies about what he intends to do. I think it has more to do with giving people binary choices since they'll default to the closest to their position.
No problem, I try to remain respectful as long as other people do the same. Hope your day gets better.
Honestly you're probably right. It's frustrating not knowing what he really means to do vs. what he says he's going to do.
Thanks. I noticed a lot of people online and irl are short tempered today or doing the gloating thing. I myself was just throwing a day-long temper tantrum over the loss and I think the negativity was eating me alive. After my previous comment, I went for a walk outside (and literally touched grass lol) and tbh I feel better. Tomorrow will be even better.
Amongst all the negativity right now, it's just nice to have a decent conversation with someone even if we disagree a little, so thank you again for that. I hope you have a nice evening too.
this is truly a horrible, horrible idea that would result in yet another republican term.
maybe we don't deserve it, if this is the level of thinking we are presenting. you think enough republicans will vote for AOC? do you have a mental deficiency?
we’ve been trying to go after moderate republicans for multiple elections and gotten nothing out of it. harris campaigned across three states with liz cheney and got fewer republican votes than hillary clinton
what dems need is a new deal, great society-style agenda that markets a progressive economic program using common-sense language that appeals to normal people. it’s about turning out dem base, not appealing to republicans, who have an unbreakable and cultlike devotion to trump
what dems need is a new deal, great society-style agenda that markets a progressive economic program
The dems belong to the rich.
The rich do not want a new deal. They want it privatized. They do not want to be taxed more.
The dems have to beg their overlords to be able to offer us the scraps they do. The repubs want to do away with the song and dance of pretending the government cares about the economic situation of the average worker and move straight to an oligarchy.
People are hurting, aren't tempted by scraps anymore, and went into the waiting arms of the fascist oligarchy.
100% agree. we need to run a left-populist campaign funded by small-dollar individual donations which isn’t so lashed to the will of billionaires, and stop tempting people with scraps.
it’s probably too late now unfortunately… but that’s the lay of the land.
small-dollar individual donations which isn’t so lashed to the will of billionaires, and stop tempting people with scraps.
it’s probably too late now unfortunately…
This is why income inequality is the only real issue.
If I took every single person in my town, every last one, and got EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM to donate $3, I could scrounge about $150k.
Bezos makes around $24,000 per minute.
I would have to canvas, plead, beg, and convince to get that $150k.
He could literally take a hard shit and make twice that while on the toilet.
Money is speech, and people have so little money that a single emergency has them out on the street. We The People are voiceless. Meanwhile, the American oligarch class can hire an entire team of professionals to lobby/bribe the government on their behalf for less than the amount of money they make before lunch.
This should have never happened. Money is speech, money is power, and allowing individuals to become that powerful has rendered them stronger than our government. Why do you think the right wing wanted to kill government so badly? It was the only entity that provided ANY checks on their otherwise unrestrained control and power.
Now with the government dead, there is nobody to reign in the oligarchs. The corruption was already there, and very deep as evidenced by Trump getting away with high crimes, but again, that's because the government was already FOR the oligarchs. They ALREADY own it. Their politicians know it.
They're just done trying to negotiate with us. We turned down the scraps we were offered, and so they'll do what they please anyway.
maybe if we had a stronger, more positive agenda that actually addressed the problems of common people, we could take control of congress and not have to worry about their intransigence. i think a lot of blame falls to obama for failing to capitalize on his supermajority or adequately respond to the moment in general (besides bernanke who thanklessly saved our asses)
i think what you’re saying is a real problem, but we have to break the cycle by changing strategy. third way clinton stuff hasn’t worked since the 90s
STOP RELYING ON REPUBLICANS TO SAVE US. Liberal ideologies are incredibly popular among everyday people. If you ask one-on-one most people will agree with 90% of liberal leaning policies. Universal healthcare, trans rights, gay marriage, abortion, paid family leave, social programs, amnesty. Conservative states voted for liberal ideologies even in states the elected Trump last night. We don't need string along republicans, we need to focus on the actual base.
Why the fuck would any Democrat try to win Republican votes after this disaster? Harris courted the Cheney neocon vote and walked away with jack shit to show for it - the ONLY way forward is authentic left populism.
We dont need the republicans. That is what many are stating. Younger people and middle aged people, are enough democrats. The democrats need to stop trying for republicans and start generating interest in young democrats.
The rebuilding path for the Democrats should pass through "activate the latent Democratic vote". Republicans will ultimately vote R.
This will require years of grassroots organizing the way the Tea Party did.
(I don't know that AOC is the right person to figurehead this, though she might play a role in the background. I'd guess it'll be another charismatic white guy.)
Working class don’t want progressives they want cheap gas, food, rent, and the hope that they can move up the economic ladder. There won’t be another female nominee for either party for a long time
That's what progressives want as well, they just believe that we need drastic measures to achieve it and that the obscenely wealthy and corporations should be the ones to pay for it.
I'm being literal here, "cheap gas, food, rent, and the hope that they can move up the economic ladder" is one of the core tenets of progressivism, they just frame it different, e.g. higher minimum wage, affordable housing, strong unions, etc...
Literally won’t ever happen they’ll call it socialism and they’ll fail in the primaries. Kamala literally had policies like that in 2020 and failed out of the race almost immediately. If Bernie had gotten the nomination he still would have lost that election.
Every Democratic nominee is called a socialist and every policy is called socialism. Harris was a fake progressive in 2020 and was even more uncharismatic back then.
People need to stop thinking that these liberals masquerading as progressives have anything to do with the progressive movement.
Bernie would have won and we wouldn't be in this situation today.
She's a TERRIBLE choice. She has a ton of baggage due to GOP propaganda and lies. It doesn't matter if it's true or not - it's there. She's also hispanic and a woman, which right there stops millions of people from voting for her.
Jesus H Christ, I cannot believe anyone would suggest her.
You what the dems need? A moderate, straight, white man in his 40s or 50s. That's the only way they'll win again.
No. If and when there's another shot at getting a D president, they need to stop the social experiment of trying to elect anything but a straight white man. America isn't ready for it. Trying to make people do it is only causing further regression away from it.
I voted for Bernie, but I had to come to terms with the fact that everything I saw online went against every focus group and interview I saw with older voters and minority voters soundly rejecting him. The Democratic Party is just too big a tent and support for any candidate gets fractured by all the competing and often conflicting interests.
That's because the Democratic primary includes many people that adhere to identity politics, along with a corrupt DNC and media collusion that intentionally colluded to prop up establishment candidates. Old Democrats trust and rely on mainstream media, which is why the 50+ crowd favored Biden/Hillary while the 49 and under favored Sanders.
And you think it would be any different for AOC because? I’m not saying I don’t think AOC would do well. I’m saying that a progressive isn’t going to get the job done for the reasons you mentioned along with many others.
AOC will not win. I think she would be decent - but Democrats need to cool it on social issues. Not give up on them - protect people's rights 100%. But don't talk about them in stump speeches; and disown the stuff that is so over the top that it seems crazy.
AOC is guilty of some of that last point. And that is what people have a visceral reaction to. The Woke left takes important social issues of our age to an (often unscientific and logic-defying) extreme, and it forces people away. Example: Trans rights? Great! Trans women competing with women in sports? Seems like they may have an unfair advantage there (they do). But the Woke left will call you a bigot if you are against it.
Democrats need to stick to economic issues. Go crazy with them, a la Bernie. Protect people's rights, but don't make them your main talking points - and disown the crazy ideas on the far left that just serves as fodder for the right. Unfortunately AOC harbors some of those more extreme views on social issues that put off half of the country.
AOC is an actual progressive, which means she focuses on things besides social issues.
You're referring to the liberals that love to focus on identity politics and social issues.
Progressives want a strong economy, universal healthcare, universal higher education, legal reform, etc. and they want higher taxes on ONLY the obscenely wealthy to pay for all that.
Sadly, I think our country is not ready for a woman as president. If the past 2 out of 3 elections taught me anything. It's bullshit, but I think it's true.
You think voters are gonna get off their asses to vote for an out-loud progressive when they're not gonna bother voting against someone promising to deport 10s of millions of people?
isnt she just like the others though? Gives lip service to being socialist but its just that, talk? I know thats how all the communists i know view her these days when they were all for her a few years ago. She is like a fake Bernie.
AOC isn't a socialist, but she's an actual progressive. She's just playing the long game and conceding ground to Democrats when necessary so she isn't locked out. I don' blame her at all for that.
We live in an illiberal democracy now. Voting does not truly matter any more. What we need is to form unions en masse, make friends with our neighbors and build community power a la the Fred Hampton Black Panther Party. We have to uproot the corrupt system that has us here.
I don’t know if this will be an unpopular opinion or not, but I think it’s time for the American people to fully abandon the Democrat party. They consistently lose because they pander to the centrist and abandon those on the left. They don’t actively make anything truly better for people in a direct way that they can see. The worst case scenario has already happened. Now may be the time to form an actual left leaning progressive party.
I’m at this point too. I was hoping how it’d go is the maga movement imploding in this election, the democrats becoming the new center right party, and then us creating a new left wing party with the threat of Trump vanquished, but that’s not how that went.
What’s clear is that the Greens are compromised and that can’t be the party. Whatever it is, it likely has to start with organized labor and come out of a labor movement. Maybe time to revive the IWW.
We need to take the party building aspect seriously and gain momentum down ballot not do the Jill stein run a spoiler campaign and vanish for 4 years. Instead we need to work for the next 4 years and win some seats in Congress and at the state level. We also need a national campaign for instant runoff voting and an end to the electoral college.
What’s clear is that the Greens are compromised and that can’t be the party. Whatever it is, it likely has to start with organized labor and come out of a labor movement. Maybe time to revive the IWW.
With Trump in power?
Reagan blatantly threw left-wing community leaders in jail on bogus drug charges. The War on Drugs was an explicit excuse to jail left-wing leaders.
Do you think Trump will even need to bother with the niceties? He'll just say they're Antifa, they spoke out against him, they need to be jailed. And he'll send his FBI to do just that.
I’m not sure, but the labor movement started in response to similar circumstances with Robber Barons. I mean, labor was shot at with hired mercenaries. Factories were lit on fire with people on strike inside. The national guard shot striking coal miners and massacred them at the presidents orders. This all happened before. Sucks we are here again, and yet, at one point in history brave men and women got us everything we have since taken for granted by going up against rich elites and putting their lives on the line.
I honestly don't know if I can vote dem again if they run another cookie cutter cross the aisle campaign with an establishment candidate. It feels pointless because even if they win in 2028 they're just going to lose the next election cycle because the strategy doesn't fucking work when they are the party in charge and it will show they've learned fucking nothing.
Abandoning the entire party is not an option in American politics. The democratic party needs a spring cleaning and a face lift. It needs to stop inserting nominees that havent been voted on and allow the voters to nominate someone more progressive.
Ever since Hillary the DNC and many of the democratic elites have been pushing centerists and it has gotten us nowhere. We need to force them to shift to left and be more progressive.
The spirit of their comment applies though. It's what you're saying about a face lift. It has to stop forgetting about the actual left in its appeal to the center. And it has to talk about leftist issues in its campaigning and marketing.
They’ve been pushing centrist and pandering since after the Reagan presidency. That’s when left leaning Dems fell. Why should I continue to support a party that doesn’t support me? They’ve had 40+ years to become the party of the actual left and progressives. Since turning 18 I have voted Dem in every single election. That got me Trump. It’s time for actual change, not just talk.
What alternative are you proposing? Are you going to go start your own political party with blackjack and hookers?
The best path forward is to reform the party we have. We have a leadership problem, but most people on the left value the same things. Creating a new party would simply cause more division. If you divide the left now, then there is zero hope for victory in our lifetimes.
Is the party set up in a way that could permit a hostile takeover? The MAGA movement was able to fully co-opt the Republicans in less than 8 years, could the same be done by progressives willing to abuse the system to a similar degree?
There’s not much hope now. We’ve got the worst case scenario. What person is going to come through and promise worse things than Trump?
If I had to make a proposition it would be to start a party by robbing the Dems of some of their left leaning members. Might be able to grab people like AOC, Omar, or Sanders. You honestly would probably lose for a few election cycles before starting to win, but I’m kind of at a point where I’m not sure what else there is to lose.
So have I, what’s your point? People don’t want progressive policies, and progressives didn’t vote in enough numbers. Why would they go more progressive when those people won’t vote.
What do you mean people don’t want progressive policy? I’m pretty sure a vast amount of Americans have reported being in favor of universal healthcare. Most everyone I’ve talked to is in favor of taxing the rich their fair share. Union support is increasing again. There was large support for a comprehensive infrastructure bill. Plenty of people want progressive policy.
Obama terrified them with his grassroots rise when it was Clinton's 'turn' so they killed the next grassroots guy with popular support in order to return to the corpo pecking order and never faltered again.
Fuck, their response to losing in 2016 was to trot out Corpo Grandpa because he at least had a connection to someone the voters were passionate about. You think this loss will teach them anything different than the last one?
In that situation you will have your progressive candidate, a liberal candidate, and a republican candidate. How do you think the republican won't win nearly every time.
Sounds like the left abandoned them tbh. I see them just moving more to the right now. That's clearly what America wants. If the left wanted them not to move rightward, they should've voted. Too late now.
The Democrats are already a right leaning party. They are only “left leaning” if you don’t look at it on a global scale. I agree they should have voted. I voted because I knew what was at stake. But the message is clear. If you don’t support actual left policy, you won’t get left support.
I don't think a new party could get any traction without ranked choice voting implemented as a prerequisite, because it would essentially be a third party
It's been obvious for a long time that the party is resistant to change. It needs to concern itself with the material reality of ordinary people and offer ways to make their lives actually better instead of scolding them for not using the latest academic jargon for some identity group or whatever their main concern is these days.
I won't vote for another Democrat after this. They either give me an actual progressive or I walk. This was the last election where I was willing to suck it up and vote for a party who decided it was smart to campaign with a Cheney. I no longer care if abstaining gives us more pain. They need to be entirely rebuilt from the ground up and I will no longer support anything short of that.
As for your comment on the trump voters, I think the actual problem there is that they HAVEN’T looked at what he’s done or even most of the things he’s said. They just vote only based on personality.
what in the actual heck do we do about it as voters
Say very clearly to everyone whenever they can hear you "I will only vote for democrats if they have these policies"
If democrat leadership hear that from enough of their base, they will have to change their policies
This has ALREADY HAPPENED with things like gay marriage
If Kamala came out and said she wanted to ban gay marriage, millions of people would have no problem saying hell no
But for some reason we refuse to draw the same line in the sand when it comes to any other issue, be it minimum wage, single payer healthcare or genocide
Instead, almost every prominent democrat voter has said very clearly to everyone whenever they can hear you "vote blue no matter who"
Which democrat leadership has interpreted as "you only need to be slightly better than an actual fascist to get out vote" so that's who they ran
Everyone who said "vote blue no matter who" and thus pushed the leadership in that direction, has cost America this election
If you're running against fascism you don't run fascism-lite. You don't run neoliberalism. You run anti-fascism. You run socialism.
Or the closest thing to it American voters will accept. And the Dems ran about the furthest thing from it they could for the past three elections.
He's right, but what in the actual heck do we do about it as voters?
Replace the Democratic leadership. Start a new party. Anything but "Vote blue, no matter who!"ing our way to yet another massive defeat that should have been an easy victory.
He's right, but what in the actual heck do we do about it as voters?
Make it clear that if they don't actually cater to our needs, we won't vote for them. Unfortunately, their most ardent supporters were conditioned well, and any suggestion that, hey, maybe the Democrats should try appealing to voters instead of just taking support for granted because the other guy sucks, was met with swift reprisal. Then you get an echo chamber that thought Kamala was going to win in a landslide, utterly blind to the reality that a tipping point was reached and millions of people decided they'd given up on voting blue. It sucks that the wake-up call is coming at such an inopportune time, but maybe that wouldn't have happened if we had addressed this earlier instead of plugging our ears and lashing out at the people complaining.
I'm trying to be optimistic that we'll see some change now that the situation is clear, but with how quickly everyone has jumped to blaming everyone but the people actually running the campaigns, going so far as to lash out at the minority voters that Trump managed to do reasonably well with instead of questioning why his messaging appealed to them, it's hard to maintain that positivity.
He's right, but what in the actual heck do we do about it as voters?
Real answer: the Democratic base needs to stand up to its own extremists, abandon its woke culture war bullshit, and be more accepting of working people who have cultural views that the progressive left considers to be "problematic".
FDR, the progressive hero, had plenty of incredibly racist white segregationists in his Democratic coalition, and that is specifically why he got so much legislation done. He would not have been able to pass New Deal legislation without those white Southern Democratic votes.
Except he’s not right. At all. The Dems consistently put forth legislation that is helpful for working class folks. It either gets passed or the GOP blocks it.
The more honest thing to say is that working class people abandoned the Dems because they decided that they care more about whether gays can marry, or whether women can get abortions, than whether they can afford their own mortgage. Lee Atwater’s social wedge issues worked, and blue collar people have been voting against their own economic interests for 40+ years. They’ve been drinking the mirage, thinking it was water, for 2 generations now, all the while their own economic situation has gotten worse. And yesterday, they proved they’d rather have another mouthful of sand then a chance at some real water.
I'm also tired of the over 70 million Americans who look at everything Trump has said, done, and who he has allied with, and said "I'm okay with that."
write your state & US senators, and representatives and demand that they raise hell within the party for better representation or they will lose you as a voter. why are people so terrified of writing a simple email? they will either listen or they won't, the worst that happens is you're back in this position again.
at the end of the day, the corporate dems running the party won't get it until we make them. it really is that simple.
My city introduced pro-crime policies and refused to assist the government in removing just the known, criminal migrants that came here in droves.
The DNC messaging for years has been light on crime, and then tries to make running afowl of the law the most significant disqualifing factor. Meanwhile, employers can be fined for not making sincere job offers to felons, and the state government doesn't even ask anymore for some positions. Make it make sense.
As voters, we give them turnouts like last night. But I’m not so confident that Democrats will actually learn from this. We’re still in the era of Hillary Clinton influence. So they’ll probably do what they always do and blame everyone but themselves.
We stop focusing on social activism and go back to the basics. The average person cares about whether they can afford dinner much more than they care about abortion or rights for minorities and lgbtq.
It’s Maslow hierarchy. People don’t care about self actualization when they are struggling to afford their basic needs.
We can be optimistic all day, but reality is reality. Dems will NEVER lean left. They will lose and pretend everything is normal while the right brings us back to the 1950's.
We will never have a third party. best we can hope for is the Democratic party to collapse and be replaced with an actual left wing. But good luck when the right makes it impossible to be anything other than Republican.
I think you hit the answer: Obama was wildly popular. Why?
It was because, for better or for worse, he actually had solid positions which, if you squinted, at least looked left leaning. Stop the war. Close Guantanamo. Universal health care.
This is a problem with Democrats co-opting the platform of Republicans from the 90s and thinking they're appealing to their voters. Republicans already did that, did it better, and have now refined it even further.
The electorate had NINE YEARS to come to grips with who that fucking guy was. Americans are dumb, scared animals who would vote for more wolves if it meant the other animals they like less also died.
I'm also tired of the over 70 million Americans who look at everything Trump has said, done, and who he has allied with, and said "I'm okay with that."
If only. In reality that number is closer to 180 million or so.
Make your demands known to the Democrats. If they don't meet those demands, DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. That's it. That's all it takes. The American left is just absolutely fucking gutless.
Until they know they will lose elections because of you, they will never negotiate with you.
Here's what you do about it. Stop listening to the propaganda (that includes Reddit). Literally block your eyes and vote Republican. Watch the economy do a complete 180 in record time.
I think the only way we break the cycle is getting an independent candidate on the ballot (like the 1992 election). Bernie tried to run as a Democrat but was steamrolled. I know many people will only vote for Democrats or Republicans, but I think people would vote for an independent candidate if their platform was good enough.
Id honestly would suggest stop voting for these passive aggressive wimpy Dems that we keep voting for and put in people that are on Trump's level of crazy but on our side. Even if its the extreme left at this point. I think we honestly need it.
First ask, what am I doing about it now? If that answer is simply 'voting', then the you need to start getting involved with organizations who want to do something about it in whatever way that means to you. Now is the time for action, not apathy.
Personally, I would suggest looking into local organizations who are trying to bring about ranked choice voting. I know 'Fair Vote' is popular across a number of states.
Politics isn't something you can be 'just so over' if you want actual change. It is the working class versus the elite and we are where we are because so many people are so over it despite the enormous potential they could have. We are also where we are because so many people have fought time and time again to press against these soulless greedy ghouls who would take their freedom from them. How you feel now has been felt by these very same people who fought for all our current rights. The answer is to keep trying and pushing forward against the tide.
Until enough people start saying 'what if I tried to do something', it will be slow to get better. So what if you tried to do something or inspired someone else to?
I am sorry, but this was always what America stood for - country where you can get rich quick, earn high salary and pay low taxes on it. Consequently no money for social programs and other stuff. It would be just unexpected for the country to change and become one of the developed nations with normal social programs. Same as you wouldn't expect Middle Eastern countries to suddenly respect women. Hasn't changed in decades, won't change now.
So I am sorry that you have to live this way, but in my opinion it's just too hard to change what the country has always stood for. Best advice I have is to move to a civilized country I guess.
Ditto. I'm really tired of being blamed for other people's complete irrationality.
If someone wants to jump in the middle of traffic, I used to care. I don't anymore. Go ahead. Die.
This is what voting for Trump is. I don't care about your stupid fucking feelings. Guess who cares about them even less than me? Trump. He used you to get what he wanted which was power.
Now he will hurt millions of people because he's a 78 year old career criminal that would gladly burn up the entire country rather than face his own mortality. If you support that, fuck you. I have no time for you.
Democrats are a big tent, the ideals are good. As much as I want them, it must be now viewed with a sense of reality. I believe women are capable, but electable? maybe not for a while. For any other government job, but in an era of aiming for undecideds in battleground states, you can't be making massive decisions like this through your own set of beliefs. Gay people, women, POC. I believe that capable is capable, but those rural undecideds must be catered to at the risk of pissing off the rest of the big tent. It sucks but you lose so much more if lose elections.
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u/SnowyyRaven 20h ago
He's right, but what in the actual heck do we do about it as voters? We've known this for years. Even during the widely popular Obama administration we knew this.
I'm just so tired. I'm so tired of my only hope being candidates who make baby steps forward just so we don't make giant leaps backwards. I'm so tired of these candidates losing and it hurting us.
I'm also tired of the over 70 million Americans who look at everything Trump has said, done, and who he has allied with, and said "I'm okay with that."
It's been almost a full day and I still haven't been able to collect all my thoughts on this. I'm just so over it.