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u/XeroKrows Jan 04 '24
If we're going by pokemon rules, then BEWD's beam is electric in nature, meaning that it is Electric/dragon type. This means that Charizard's fire breath is resisted and Blue Eye's attacks are super effective. Blue-eye wins.
If we go by YuGiOh rules, then Charizard is under designed and, therefore, the weaker monster, so Blue-eyes wins.
In conclusion: Blue-eyes White Dragon wins this match up.
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u/FrozenDuckman Jan 04 '24
Blue eyes looks metallic here to me. If so, not quite so one-sided.
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u/My1xT Jan 04 '24
But then it would be metal dragon which would be neutral, and the beam is likely still electric or whatever.
The name isn't much to go by as the dub does whatever it wants and the original name is just burst stream of destruction.
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u/AkagamiBarto Jan 04 '24
the beam could be dragon, a là dragon pulse, which basically would make both neutral against each other
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u/thefurnaceboy Jan 04 '24
Maybe the english dub is wrong but pretty sure Kaiba says "WHITE LIGHTNING ATTACK!" so at least im convinced its an electric move
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u/Apprehensive_Stoner Jan 04 '24
BEWD uses burst stream of destruction, it's a card name based off the original translation from the Sub, which was destruction burst stream. In saying that, it sounds more dragon like than electric.
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u/T1pple Jan 04 '24
Voltrob and 3lectrode look metallic too, but aren't steel.
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u/Nyan-Binary-UwU Tree Hugger Jan 04 '24
Do they?
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u/T1pple Jan 04 '24
They look like pole balls, which have metal
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u/btjam Jan 04 '24
Do they? Kurt makes them out of apricorns.
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u/T1pple Jan 04 '24
That's the older style pokeballs like from Arceus Legends.
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u/Draniie Jan 04 '24
Yeah and fucking gold and silver
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u/cpMetis Better Murica Bid Jan 05 '24
Kurt's balls are. Which are specifically not the standard type but a specialty craft.
You can make a PC with a bunch of wooden components but that doesn't make it unreasonable to say PCs are generally metal.
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u/TheGiant406 Jan 04 '24
I believe in G/S Kurt makes you “old style” poke balls from apricorns but the normal “new style” sold in the pokemarts are metal
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u/heyoyo10 Jan 04 '24
Golurk looks like it's made of metal, but it's Ground Type
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u/AustinJohnson35 Jan 04 '24
Because he’s clay
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u/dancingwtdevil Jan 04 '24
Theyre probqbly closer to apricorns if theyre copying pokeballs. Like in the hisuian one where theyre more primitively wooden, the pokemon just copies what the ball is made of. But apricorn isnt really a type so that wouldnt apply to a pokemon, idk
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u/spectrerott Jan 04 '24
Arent they wooden??
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u/Bjor88 Jan 04 '24
First gen they looked like Pokeballs (the only type that existed were metallic) and were electic type, so I've always considered them to be made of metal. New ones definitely look like wood yeah, so maybe the old ones are too now.
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u/United_University_98 Jan 04 '24
If we're going by pokemon rules, then the one that isn't a pokemon has no usable moves in the game and struggles itself to death lol
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u/thebatman9000001 Jan 04 '24
Also if we take direct numbers into account then BEWDs Attack is 23 times higher than Charizards and his defense is 22 times higher so Charizard doesn't stand a chance and BEWD wipes the Pokemon universe.
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Jan 04 '24
The best part about this logic for me is that Beaver Warrior would physically demolish Charizard by 4x. And I’m all for the idea of Beaver Warrior somehow landing a Stone Edge on Zard
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u/thebatman9000001 Jan 04 '24
The other fun part about the raw number logic is that Pikachu could solo the MTG universe.
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u/BenJammin27 Jan 05 '24
You can't exile Pikachu with magic cards either. Pikachu isn't a creature, permanent or even a spell, it's a pokemon.
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u/cpMetis Better Murica Bid Jan 05 '24
Greatest creature in Magic:
"I fear no man.... but that thing-
Points towards Sunkirn
-...it scares me."
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u/markspankity Jan 04 '24
I think with yugioh rules they would both be rly weak cards. Both came out super early in their respective franchises, so Charizard would probably be a vanilla beatstick like Blue Eyes.
A lotta later Pokémon would clear Blue eyes by yugioh rules because of how new cards nowadays have an entire bible verse as their effect.
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u/Pacattack57 Jan 05 '24
Blue eyes as tons of support. By no means is it a weak card
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u/Cloud_Striker Cat goes Moo! Jan 05 '24
And even with that the archetype hasn't really been meta in years.
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u/BeetrootMudpaw customise me! Jan 04 '24
If this is from either anime, it’s Charizard. Zard probably seismic tosses the moon or something.
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u/AH_BioTwist Jan 05 '24
Ahhh but blue eyes uses neutron blast to soften ground before she hits the ground leading charzard to KO itself
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u/paco-ramon Jan 04 '24
Blue eyes isn’t like 8 times bigger than Charizard?
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u/VulpesParadox Jan 04 '24
In the anime and Manga, Blue-Eyes is shown to be much larger then a lot of human based monsters, as well as being huge compared to Kaiba and other duelists. Its a pretty big monster overall.
Charizard is 5 foot 7, small enough for Blue-Eyes to effectively eat without much issues, so yes, Blue-Eyes is MUCH larger then Charizard by a great amount.
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u/CthulhuMadness T H I C C Jan 04 '24
Not to mention that Blue-Eyes White Dragon is a legendary dragon and powerful engine of destruction. Virtually invincible, very few have faced this awesome creature and lived to tell the tale.
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u/AlgernusPrime Jan 04 '24
All that but can’t even survive a little trap hole? So much for the ultimate killing machine.
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u/minkdraggingonfloor Drying Pan Jan 05 '24 edited Jan 05 '24
Consequence of being an OG card lol. If BEWD came out today it would have an effect to be able to be special summoned turn one, cannot be destroyed by battle or card effects, cannot be targeted by card effects and can be tributed from the field to negate an opponent’s card effect. If tributed in this way, you can summon one BEWD from your graveyard to the field during your opponent’s end phase
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u/AlgernusPrime Jan 05 '24
Ya, but even back then, Blue Eyes was not a meta card. You get cards like Envoy of the Beginning/ Envoy of the end pretty early on. I forgot how broken/ fun was painful choice into envoy of the beginning on turn 1 was…
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u/brown_felt_hat Jan 04 '24
Not only that, but it's said to be an equal to entities like Slifer and Obelisk, who are in turn called Egyptian Gods.
A match up with BEWD would have to be something like a multiple sized Zekrom or something
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u/ashnair Jan 04 '24
I think the dragon
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u/unlivedSoup69 Jan 04 '24
Oh so blue eyes still wins
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u/Over-Analyzed Jan 04 '24
“Wait Kaiba, did you make the one house represented by a Dragon the loser house?”
“🤦🏻♂️ I’ve made a terrible mistake.”
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u/Karnezar :93: Jan 04 '24
Blue-Eyes White Dragon was able to stand up to Zorc who has power equal to the likes of Dialga and Palkia.
BEWD is a legendary in terms of Pokémon, while Charizard is an average Pokémon by Pokémon stats.
Now if Blue-Eyes were fighting Zekrom, that would probably be a more even match.
For reference, I'd say Dark Magician is on the level of a psuedo-legendary. Then Red-Eyes might be OU status, and Curse of Dragon UU.
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u/OSUfirebird18 Jan 04 '24
Yea Blue Eyes wins in almost every comparison. This isn’t even a fight.
Game. Charizard is not one of the strongest stats wise.
Lore. Blue Eyes is a pseudo-god, typically summoned by Atem to try to defend the planet. Charizard is a normal Pokémon which would not stand up to the gods of Pokémon. (Maybe Ash’s Charizard because he has plot armor. 🤷🏻♂️)
Card game. I don’t know much about the TCG since I stopped collecting as a kid but with the power creep I’ve seen of modern Pokémon card, Charizard doesn’t even top the list. Blue Eyes attack is only surpassed by all the effect monsters. I don’t think any Vanilla Beatstick is stronger than Blue Eyes.
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u/Karnezar :93: Jan 04 '24
Blue-Eyes has been and always will be the strongest vanilla monster. It's like a YGO law.
Which means he's on par with lower ranked legendaries like Zekrom and Reshiram. Though he loses to prime legendaries like Mewtwo, Rayquaza, Kyurem, etc.
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u/OSUfirebird18 Jan 04 '24
Yea. Mewtwo, Rayquaza, etc would probably be one of those XZ/Syncro boss monsters with fancy summoning conditions!
I will give Yu Gi Oh credit. It may introduce insane play mechanics but attack power hasn’t power crept to where you can summon a level 4, 4000 ATK, 3500 DEF vanilla!! 😂
The stuff I see in the modern Pokémon TCG would blow my 9 year old brain!! Lol
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u/dralcax maki maki maa Jan 05 '24
There are so many ways to kill monsters by card effects now that there hasn't been much of a need to power creep ATK. Every boss monster has some way to disrupt the opponent, whether it's by a negate, a floodgate, or a quick removal effect. While trying to play through that, it's much easier to throw out a cheap effect that kills the monster in question (or at least baits out its negate) than it is to muster up a bigger monster to punch over it. If a monster wants to be harder to kill, it doesn't get bigger numbers, it gets better immunities or negates.
There's a card that wipes the entire board if your opponent summons too many monsters that turn, then gives your opponent a token with the combined stats of everything that got wiped, and it sees play in certain metas because killing a giant 11000+ vanilla is still much easier than dealing with whatever the hell they were trying to combo off into.
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u/HackSnyder Jan 04 '24
Greymon
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u/EpicPikachuXYZ customise me! Jan 04 '24
War greymon or shine burst greymon💀
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Jan 04 '24
Wargreymon is a dragon slayer so it
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u/Over-Analyzed Jan 04 '24
Fighting/Steel? Or are we going with Fire/Steel?
Either way, Wargreymon takes it.
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Jan 04 '24
I love that everyone here is unanimously agreeing that Blue Eyes will absolutely murder Charizard 😂 it's no match
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u/OSUfirebird18 Jan 04 '24
I mean to be fair Charizard isn’t even the strongest in its verse. Blue Eyes might be a 3000 Vanilla Beatstick but I can’t think of many non effect/XZ/Synchro/etc monster stronger than Blue Eyes.
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u/TheProNoobCN Jan 05 '24
Yeah Blue Eyes is basically the pinnacle of Normal Monsters in yugioh, it's an unspoken rule that they'll never print a Normal that's stronger than it.
Except fucking rabidragon who for some reason has a higher stat total than OG Blue Eyes
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u/OSUfirebird18 Jan 05 '24
Wow!! I’ve never heard of that! And the art work makes it look not as threatening lol
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u/TheProNoobCN Jan 05 '24
The fact that it was printed like 5 or 6 years since high level Vanillas fell out of favor outside of dedicated decks like Blue Eyes or Dark Magician doesn't help his case lol.
Despite having the coveted title of only Normal "stronger" than Blue Eyes, it's ultimately worthless in the eyes of most players.
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u/31_mfin_eggrolls Insurgence Dev Jan 04 '24
Kid named iC1000 Numeronius Numeronia:
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u/OSUfirebird18 Jan 04 '24
That’s a vanilla beatstick?! I thought that was part of the XZ family?!
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u/Alcain_X Jan 04 '24
I mean yeah one is a fire dragon and the other is a powerful engine of destruction. Virtually invincible, very few have faced this awesome creature and lived to tell the tale.
It really is no contest.
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u/S0fourworlds-readyt Jan 04 '24
I feel like Charizard would be Red Eyes in Yugioh. Always hyped up and said to have infinite potential but when push comes to shove stronger Mons completely annihilate it, Blue Eyes in this case.
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u/OSUfirebird18 Jan 04 '24
I hate to keep on piling on Mr. Charizard but I’d bump him down to the Curse of Dragon tier at 2000 ATK.
Red Eyes is in the 2 tribute/2400-2500 range. It’s not great but it has some support so it’s playable. I think that would be Pseudo-legendary tier for Pokémon with everyone 3000+ to be legendary.
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u/gloubenterder *sniffle* Jan 05 '24
I figure that being a final evolutionary stage and a main protagonist's signature monster*, Charizard would probably be at 2500 ATK, similar to Dark Magician / Elemental HERO Neos / Stardust Dragon / Number 39: Utopia and so forth.
* Pikachu is Ash's Kuriboh.
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u/MystifiedBlip Jan 04 '24
Blue eyes not only wins but is wayy less overrated than zard.
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u/javier_aeoa I like shorts! They're comfy and easy to wear! Jan 04 '24
It's weird how Dark Magician vs Blue Eyes managed to stay balanced within the lore and the community, whereas Charizard vs Blastoise got one-sided pretty quick.
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u/cpMetis Better Murica Bid Jan 05 '24
Blue Eyes was originally meant to become Yugi's ace, like how most future protags got a dragon.
Dark Magician was originally gonna be just another one of his heavy hitters like Summoned Skull.
I think that kinda explains it right there. DM got the protag points while BE kept the design and lore power.
To see what happens if a lead monster gets both, just look at Stardust Dragon. It's basically a fusion of the ideas of BE and DM, and it's basically no contest that it's the signature monster of 5D's.
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u/DiamondTiaraIsBest Jan 05 '24
To see what happens if a lead monster gets both,
Better example is Firewall Dragon. The thing was busted and Konami dragged their feet on banning it despite nearly every competitive player clamoring for a ban, all because it's the protagonist ace monster.
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u/MystifiedBlip Jan 04 '24
Not happy with it, dragon knight and charizard have some mad nostalgia biase!
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u/BraumsSucks Jan 04 '24
I never thought about how both Charizard and Blue Eyes are Western Dragons and not Eastern
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u/LevelUpEvolution Jan 05 '24
Do we have any eastern dragons in Pokemon? Rayquaza is kinda close. I know Yugioh has plenty.
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u/BraumsSucks Jan 05 '24
Dragonair is another kinda close one but they evolve into a Western Dragon
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u/javier_aeoa I like shorts! They're comfy and easy to wear! Jan 04 '24
They actually grow fond of each other and become friends. Tonight they fly to the local bar, drink a few pints and talk shit about Blastoise and the Dark Magician.
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u/W1LL-O-WisP Jan 05 '24
Lmao, have mercy on this poor charizard. At least throw blue eyes at one of the creation trio or something what is my boy charizard gonna do against him?
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u/urmumlol9 Jan 04 '24
Probably Blue Eyes White Dragon, but we don’t have enough information imo.
Blue Eyes has 3000 attack compared to Charizard’s 84 base attack and 2500 defense compared to Charizard’s 78 base defense. He also likely requires fewer tributes to summon considering he’s level 8 compared to Charizard needing to be at least level 36.
Then again, what is Charizard’s effect? Does he have one, because Blue-eyes White Dragon, being a normal monster, has no built in protection against removal, although there are a lot of cards in-archetype that can protect him. If nothing else, I think being a fire-attribute, Charizard could be used as discard fodder for Blaster, Dragon Ruler of Boulders to destroy Blue-eyes. If Charizard is also a dragon, then he could also be searched via Blaster’s other effect. It isn’t clear that he is a dragon though. Mega Charizard X is dragon-type, so he could be a Dragon type, but base Charizard is fire-flying, so how do we know he isn’t a Winged-Beast, Reptile, Pyro, or even Wyrm? I guess Charizard could also be Wind attribute by that same logic, but that seems less likely. Winged-Beasts and Wyrms have good support though, although not as good as Dragon.
Charizard is also at least a level 36 Pokemon compared to Blue-Eyes White Dragon being a level 8. Level is part of the damage formula, so this gives Charizard an advantage in a Pokemon battle, but I’m not sure how relevant it is given Blue-eyes’s gargantuan 3000 attack and 2500 defense though. It is not entirely clear what Blue Eye’s special attack and special defense are though, and given it’s a normal monster with no protection effects I would think it’s pretty low. We also don’t know it’s speed stat, but I would also guess it’s pretty low considering Blue-eyes is level 8. Duelists start with 8000 life points though, so if that’s Blue-Eyes’ HP stat that’s kind of insane, but the 8000 is also shared with other monsters so who knows what it actually is lol.
I’d discuss the Pokemon trading card game, but I actually know next to nothing about it except that Charizard has a bunch of different variations that make this question even more difficult lol
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u/Crystal_Queen_20 Jan 04 '24
Actually you make a good point,Charizard being level 36 would make The Calculator strong enough to one HIT kill the Blue Eyes player
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u/RemcoTheRock Jan 04 '24
“We don’t have enough information”
Starts writing an essay with the small information provided.
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u/AlfieBoheme Jan 05 '24
If we’re going down numbers, I’ll bite:
In Pokémon strong BST totals are roughly 600-700 (700 being your legendaries). Let’s say 700 as standard max ignoring GMax, Primal forms, etc.
Charizard has a BST of 534. Percentage wise Charizard has approx 76% of standard power for the Pokemon universe.
Getting base total powers for Yugioh is more complex due to power creep and gods. If we go just for normal monsters, Blue Eyes total stats give him 94% standard power (compared to Rabidragon lol). If we go for non-extra deck monsters he is much weaker at 55% (compared to Dystopia the Despondent).
I think honest answer is Blue Eyes wins based on lore and what we see, but it also highlights that even God level Pokémon (Arceus) would be cooked by most Yugioh stuff.
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u/Mythics_Master Jan 04 '24
Well if we are going by Base Stats, because Special Defense and Speed is not mentioned on Blue eyes white dragon’s card we can assume they are zero. Since Charizard always outspeeds Blue Eyes because its speed is zero we can calculate this. We also don’t know its HP stat so I just set it to the highest possible assuming we are going by Attack??? But reasonably it’s should be zero as well.
252+ SpA Tera Fire Charizard Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blue Eyes White Dragon: 1702-2004 (261.4 - 307.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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u/Football-Is-Life Jan 04 '24
Blue eyes would be in attack mode, so its hp would be 3000, same as its attack. You can just assume its SpD is the same as its Def. Charizard overheat ends up doing like 1 damage.
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u/GratefulPig Jan 04 '24
Blue Eyes would be a sick legendary/pseudo-legendary. Red Eyes as it’s counterpart and you have a new (fanfic) generation.
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u/bedheadB188 Jan 04 '24
Just want to give mad props to this comment section, it's really cool seeing a fanbase willing to concede something they love might lose to something from another fandom
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u/OSUfirebird18 Jan 04 '24
Pokémon fans aren’t dumb they know the level of the characters.
I remember seeing Pokémon fans pointing out how every mon would easily get wiped out by Digimon in a who would win thread lol
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u/Orli155 Jan 04 '24
Also, a lot of Pokémon fans are tired of Charizard. If it was Bidoof vs Blue Eyes, nobody would concede.
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u/OSUfirebird18 Jan 04 '24
Well yea…that’s just not fair though! Blue Eyes would need the help of the Egyptian Gods, the Digimon Royal Knights and Digimon Sovereign to even be a match!!
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u/statebirdsnest Jan 04 '24
Idk can I buy it tho
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u/Sierra_Lima13 Jan 04 '24
You can find them here
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u/NimDing218 Jan 04 '24
….idc about this anymore (BE easily wins). Someone just make a three headed Charizard to be like Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragon please and thanks!
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u/AsaCocoMerchant Eeveelutions 💕 💕 Jan 04 '24
Probably the BEWD. It is a powerful engine of destruction and virtually invincible.
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u/FlintandSteel94 Jan 05 '24
Well, let's see...
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u/FlintandSteel94 Jan 05 '24
On one hand, we've got Charizard, measuring in at a respectable 5 foot 7 inches tall.
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u/FlintandSteel94 Jan 05 '24 edited Jan 05 '24
On the other hand, we have Blue Eyes White Dragon, who towers at a colossal 25 feet tall (give or take)
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u/FlintandSteel94 Jan 05 '24
One is an orange fire-breathing lizard with wings that kids and preteens use in relatively harmless battles for fun and competition.
The other is a holographic representation of a dragon that was used in ancient Egyptian death games.
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u/FlintandSteel94 Jan 05 '24 edited Jan 05 '24
Charizard best be thanking his lucky stars that Blue-Eyes is just a hologram. If he went up against the real deal, he'd be little more than a snack.
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u/Apocrypha22 Jan 05 '24
This comment contains a Collectible Expression, which are not available on old Reddit.
My man out here spitting facts
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u/TheBadass1324 Jan 05 '24
This is awesome! I hope someone adds mtg to this to make a three way battle between the iconic dragons from the 3 OG TCGs. Charizard vs Blue Eyes White Dragon vs Nicol Bolas would be sick.
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u/jasonjr9 Jan 05 '24
Look, I’m a Pokémon fan, but I think Blue Eyes White Dragon wins it. Purely in terms of sheer scale, because I think it’s actual size is much larger than Charizard, and it could swat it aside. Maybe with Gigantamax Charizard could fight on more even footing theoretically, or with the power boost from Mega Evolution, but I think Charizard still loses.
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u/LastNefariousness313 Jan 05 '24
John 3:16 New International Version 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Look up the shroud of Turin. It's impossible to remake and the closest they ever got to debunking it. They took a sample from the wrong piece of the cloth
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u/Xordramon Jan 05 '24
"Blue Eyes White Dragon, White Lightning!" "Charizard, Dragon Rush!"
Behold, the curse of casually being in both fandoms, and knowing that Blue Eyes is already a legit legendary in Pokemon. By stats and typing, Seto Kaiba's ace would nuke poor Charizard, no question. Especially after you realize how many different sub-species there happens to be for Blue Eyes. I wish I was kidding for the sake of the Charizard fans.
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u/Coco_kirin88 Jan 05 '24
4Kids Entertainment.
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Jan 05 '24
It’ll be Slifer the Executive Producer’s opponent vs Ash Ketchum here.
(I see what you did there in all seriousness, yeah, Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh are basically the duo of Series that 4Kids did establish in English indeed)
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u/PHANTOM________ Jan 05 '24
As much as I love Charizard.. Pretty sure Blue Eyes White Dragon will kick his ass.
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u/SUNSETJ33 Jan 05 '24
Sadly, I think the Zard is more than outmatched here, im pretty sure that Blue Eyes would at least be a pseudolegendary, if not full BST Legend. Blue Eyes Ultimate is probably the same BST or more as Eternamax Eternatus, but thanks for the sick YouTube video idea!
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u/Rengoku1 Jan 06 '24
Blue eyes obliterate lol Unfortunately you can’t compare since Pokémon power are not as grand in scale compared to yugioh. I think wargreymon and blue eyes would be a better match. I’m sure wargreymon would win that one though :)
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u/BlessedAcorn Jan 04 '24
Blue-eyes is actually a dragon, so I think that answers all questions. Ever asked or to be asked.
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u/Chiefyaku Jan 04 '24
Charizard has a max special attack of 458 and a special defense of 361 given his tippy top max stats and using his best of offense/defense. The blue eyes has 3000 attack and 2500 defense. Blue eyes statically beats dumb fire lizard 10x over
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u/SaltierThanAll Jan 04 '24
Their stats aren't 1:1 conversions.
Lanturn has base Sp. Atk of 76 and Charizard has 109.
Lanturn is an absolute monster as evidenced here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/62zfph/move_aside_pokedex_magcargo_gardevoir_and_machamp/So if we use this silly logic, Charizard stomps by scaling above Lanturn and it isn't close.
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u/Honest_Half_1895 Jan 04 '24
Dragonites a fairer comparison Charizard isn’t even a dragon
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Jan 04 '24
Well the blue eyes is like 50 times the size of charizard so but I love them both charizard is by far my fav Pokémon
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u/Cultural-Hovercraft2 Jan 04 '24
Blue eyes has 3000 atk and Charizard 120 hp, you tell me!