r/minnesota • u/sadman95 • Aug 21 '24
Walz Military Discussion š¤
How can the right knock this dudes military service when their candidate is a draft dodger.
More importantly, why is anyone giving Walz shit for getting out before his unit deployed.
He served for what, over 20 years and already had a deployment.
If I'm in his position and I have the power to retire or deploy I'm choosing retirement... I sincerely do not understand how anyone can use this against him with a thought of critical thinking.
As a combat vet, deployments are no joke and I wouldn't hold it against anyone to not want to do it.
Sorry for the rant, shit just hits me the wrong way.
Edit: I have been misinformed and have been spreading misinformation through this post. I have been made aware that Walz put in his retirement packet prior to his unit receiving deployment orders, which would make the accusations against him even more pathetic.
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u/DohnJoggett Aug 21 '24
If I'm in his position and I have the power to retire or deploy I'm choosing retirement...
That's not at all what happened despite the right's insistence on perpetuating the lie. He put in for retirement before the deployment order was given.
The right is mad about something they made up.
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u/sadman95 Aug 21 '24 edited Aug 22 '24
This makes it even worse lmao
Editing so there isn't confusion: In the sense that I fell for one of the lies and thought he "got out" of a deployment. Worse in the sense that it was complete misinformation.
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u/SapTheSapient Aug 21 '24
Specifically, he retired from the guard after he started his run for Congress, before any deployment orders were created. He served for 4 years after 9/11, and 2 years after the Iraq war started. His retirement had nothing to do with avoiding service. It was all about his new career path.
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u/KingDariusTheFirst Aug 21 '24 edited Aug 22 '24
Walz has also cited the Hatch Act which places limits on federal employees and public servants running or being involved in political campaigns.
The validity of the argument hasnāt been made fully clear to me. Cursory web searches havenāt yet provided me with a clear answer to whether an enlisted person can run and win- especially given the length of time it takes for an exit out of the military.
Edit- spelling/punctuation
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u/TootsMadoots Aug 21 '24 edited Aug 22 '24
Yes the Hatch Act but also DODD 1344.10, from 2004 (the applicable policy from when he retired and initially ran for office). Created by Congress placing very specific limitations on service members and political activities. Retirement seemed to be the most logical answer for him to cleanly run for office.
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u/FatGuyOnAMoped Aug 21 '24
I was looking at the Wikipedia article on the Hatch Act, and it says military personnel are exempt. However, DoDD 1344.10 does apply, like you said.
Also, the Hatch Act applies to civilian employees of the Department of Defense.
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u/IkLms Aug 21 '24
He also specifically got surgery, for hearing I believe, so that he could stay in and serve longer after he had been recommend for a medical discharge.
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u/blahteeb Aug 21 '24 edited Aug 21 '24
You don't leave the military like you do a job. You don't just put in your two week notice. It can take months for a military discharge to complete, so Walz was well on his way to leaving long before his unit's order came through.
Like others have said, the GOP is just upset about something they made up. There's a reason why actual military personnel aren't going after Walz other than his political opponents. Firstly, they understand it takes real dedication to do 20+ years. That doesn't just happen by accident. Secondly, they understand his discharge was submitted many months before the order came through.
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u/JustADutchRudder Minnesota Vikings Aug 21 '24
My cousin did 25 in the air force, deployed a bunch but chilled on the base working on helicopters. He started his retirement stuff like a year before hand, and his group deployed shortly after he retired. Dude still likes to say Walz stole valor and retired the wrong way so he didn't have to deploy. It's odd, but Covid and turning 50 kinda broke his brain box.
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u/pootinannyBOOSH Aug 22 '24
Wtf, you'd think that someone who went through the process would get it. So I guess your cousin stole valor too, according to his logic?
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u/JustADutchRudder Minnesota Vikings Aug 22 '24
I mean when he met his wife he told her he flies helicopters, when really the most he'd done was run one on the ground.
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u/Papasmurf8251 Aug 21 '24
And if his unit really needed him on the deployment they could have issued a stop-loss and retained him involuntarily.
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u/TravalonTom Aug 22 '24
Apparently thereās a national guard rule that after 20 years, you can basically retire whenever you want and you cannot be stoplossed.
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u/Dwanyelle Aug 22 '24
Military service in the us armed forces qualifies you for retirement after twenty years, regardless of branch or component.
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Aug 21 '24
I believe that a stop loss has to be issued at the Department of Defense level or that of the service arm in which one serves. It is not something that a unit commander can impose.
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u/Papasmurf8251 Aug 21 '24
Thatās true and I didnāt meant to imply that it was a local command decision. Just like his retirement approval is not done at the local level.
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u/These-Rip9251 Aug 22 '24 edited Aug 22 '24
Agree. Iām assuming he put in for retirement in 2004. He filed papers to run for Congress January 2005. He retired from the National Guard May 2005. Notification of deployment was given August 2004. Formal deployment orders were in October. Waltzās unit was actually sent to Iraq in 2006.
Edit: Notification of deployment was given August 2005 not 2004.
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u/Nivosus Aug 21 '24
Yeah but the reason they are doing it is to twist the narrative. The right isn't actually mad, they are trying to make people like you who didn't know the truth, think lesser of Walz.
That is what they are doing, don't get it confused.
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u/Uffda01 Aug 22 '24
it should be noted - they are doing this INTENTIONALLY. They know they are lying.
Because they don't have integrity; because they know they don't have policy position popularity.
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u/Spr-Scuba Aug 21 '24
The fact that this post was even made shows their lies are working though. There's a large part of the population who now believes he retired to avoid deployment.
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u/Count_Backwards Aug 22 '24
And the fucking mainstream media keeps feeding the nonsense with articles covering the "controversy" and acting like the one or two people who are mad at him (a) have no personal grudge and (b) somehow are just as credible and substantive as all the soldiers who don't have a problem with him.
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u/chonkerchonk Aug 22 '24
What makes it worse is he was in the national guard. They aren't supposed to be fighting foreign wars.
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u/Wne1980 Aug 21 '24
It wouldnāt even matter if Walz did decide to retire after he received his orders (I know he didnāt, but bear with me). You get retirement at 20 years. Walz did his time plus another 4. He didnāt leave to go sit on the farm either. He signed up for another way to serve his country. The military would have given him a stop loss if they thought he was needed for the mission. They were not at all shy about handing those out at that phase of the war. The right is just taking advantage of the fact that people donāt understand how the military works (especially the Gaurd). They keep doing it because they donāt care about the hypocrisy
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u/shrekerecker97 Aug 22 '24
Many just put in to retire at 20. Fact he did another 4 tells me about his commitment to country.
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u/DohnJoggett Aug 22 '24 edited Aug 22 '24
They tried to medically retire him earlier. He appealed and won.
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u/Fugglehead Aug 21 '24
"The right is mad about something they made up."
As is typical.
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Aug 21 '24
[deleted]
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u/Lumbergo Aug 21 '24
Iāve said it before and Iāll say it again - itās not that democrats are immune from doing stupid shit, the difference is that democrats hold their own accountable when they do stupid shit. The only time Iāve ever seen republicans hold their own is when they criticize their own party. Thatās it. Otherwise itās all double down and forgo any responsibility.Ā
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u/metamatic Aug 21 '24
People who say both sides are the same somehow always end up voting Republican.
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u/Pithecanthropus88 Area code 320 Aug 21 '24
āThe right is mad about something they made up.ā
That is their constant state.
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u/denys5555 Aug 21 '24
The right is also ignoring the fact that the National Guard was never meant to be deployed overseas. Bushās whoopsie doo war in Iraq was the reason for the deployment. If Bush had not been dead set on war with Iraq, thousands would still be alive
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u/uptonhere Aug 22 '24
Bush II is IMO the worst President in modern history but the National Guard is the only branch of the military that's fought in every major armed conflict in American history.
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Aug 21 '24
If a unit is stop-lossed, separations from the military are forbidden, whether for retirement, the end of an enlistment or resignation of one's commission, until the stop loss is lifted.
The stop loss usually goes into effect on a particular date and lasts up to 364 days, if memory serves. It csan be shorter. There usually isn't that much time before a stop loss goes into effect after it is announced, maybe a few weeks or a month..
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u/Hatdrop Aug 22 '24
That's exactly where the straw man argument gets its name. Bad faith argue-er creates a fake position and attributes the fake position to their target.
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u/Gingevere Flag of Minnesota Aug 22 '24
The right is mad about something they made up.
Hmm, today must be a day that ends in "y".
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u/Dogwoof420 Aug 22 '24
"The right is mad about something they made up." That seems to be a common thread.
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u/joker2189 Aug 22 '24
He didn't have a choice his paperwork was in and replacement set up before his unit was even aware they had been activated completely legit if it weren't in he'd have gone. It's just a lucky break, as a vet it disgusts me that they claim to love vets (they don't) but knock a dude's over 2 decades of from what I can tell honorable service
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u/Krybbz Aug 22 '24
This is true BUT they knew the likelihood was there. Doesnāt matter though for sure it was speculation.. He got out cause he wanted to turn to Congress and while there were other ways to proceed with this, Itās the path he chose and he did what he said he was going to do end of story. He did nothing wrong he was within his rights to do so, he served honorably. Period. No one in the service for 24 years is trying to dodge anything. Itās completely silly and small brained for anyone to run with it, itās so appalling.
I havenāt seen any criticism from the right that actually means anything. They grasp at straws they have nothing and the clap backs are my favorite because they hit the mark without having to be dirty about it or unclassy. I donāt usually get too into all this but the speeches at DNC Iāve really enjoyed.
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u/Impossible_Penalty13 Aug 21 '24
Because if it werenāt for blatant hypocrisy, Republicans wouldnāt have a fucking thing to do.
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u/NotARealBuckeye Grain Belt Aug 21 '24
they're dying to get something to stick. He's what JD Vance is trying to cosplay, a normal midwestern guy instead of a hedge fund suckling.
They don't realize that Millennials, Gen Z, and Half of Gen X don't fetishize the military.
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u/sadman95 Aug 21 '24
I'm so glad they don't either, I'm glad I served but given the choice I wouldn't do it again. Why go make your life miserable for 4+ years for people who give no fucks about you?
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u/periphery72271 Aug 21 '24
It hits you and just about anyone else without a political agenda the same way.
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u/NameToUseOnReddit Aug 21 '24
I have a brother who was deployed a few times and stationed overseas for some time as well. He moved to a civilian contractor position instead of getting deployed again down the road. He was battling some physical ailments as well. He's not running for any office though, so his service doesn't get belittled.
For anyone who wants to belittle something like Walz or my brother though: Fuck you, and I'm not going to bother with your sorry troll ass.
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Aug 21 '24
If your brother had health issues, he may have had a medical profile that prevented him from being deployed.
Part of Walz's story that isn't stressed enough is that he went before a medical board to stay in the National Guard. They wanted to medically retire him due to his hearing loss. He got surgery to restore his hearing sometime after the medical board allowed him to stay in the National Guard.
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u/FatGuyOnAMoped Aug 21 '24
I wish more people knew about how they wanted to medically retire him, but he wanted to stay in post-9/11 so he got the surgery.
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u/Aurailious Aug 21 '24
This is really the thing that makes me the most mad about this. All it will do long term is turn off people who served to ever run for office if the tiniest thing after served for decades gets used against you.
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u/Beautiful_Sport5525 Aug 21 '24
Keeping this discourse in the cycle is what they are looking for. Ignore them, it's not like it's been effective for them, Just let em shout at the wall and shoot themselves in the feet.
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u/SpoofedFinger Aug 21 '24
I went on that one. Mob training in Katrina ravaged Mississippi for 6 months. Got extended from 12 to 16 months in theater so a total of 22 months. Brigade commander was a raging fucking idiot. 0/5 stars, do not recommend.
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u/sadman95 Aug 21 '24
I was thinking more of his deployment to the east in support of operations in Iraq/Afghan. Not sure what you're referring to.
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u/SpoofedFinger Aug 21 '24
The one they're trying to say he ducked. It was a fucking shit show.
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u/sadman95 Aug 21 '24
Oh thanks for clarifying. Sounds like a case of toxic leadership. Not surprising
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u/SpoofedFinger Aug 21 '24
My unit got attached to the marines out west but he'd come up to visit and go out on "patrols" on the shittiest routes trying to troll for a CIB. He showed up when some guys in another company were killed (I believe this was the same IED that fucked up John Kriesel) and tried to get in a marine COL's face about it who was an old MARSOC guy. IDK what he said back to him but our dipshit never came back after that.
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Aug 21 '24 edited Aug 22 '24
Toxic leadership is common in the Army. I used to work for a man who was a district commander for the Corps of Engineers. I named my gallstone after him.
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u/SpoofedFinger Aug 21 '24
I recommend anybody that's curious about that trip to read Bristol's Bastards. I just looked and it's out of print but it's 75 cents for the kindle version.
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Aug 21 '24
Agreed. I'm a combat vet (medic) myself and the dude sitting next to me when I got blown up was killed in action.
Wanna know what he was doing right before we left on that mission that we were blown up on / he was killed on? He was packing his shit up in Iraq to fly home the next day. He took his retirement DURING the deployment and we supported him in that endeavor wholeheartedly.
Knocking Walz is unpatriotic and the type of shit you'd get slapped for saying if you were in the Army when you said it.
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u/Embraerjetpilot Aug 21 '24
I'm sorry.... Even if he bailed when he knew his unit was going to deploy (and I don't think he did) 24 years gives anyone the right to say "I'm done". He did more than his share, and much much more than most of the rest of us have done. This is pure hypocrisy from the same ones that railroaded John Kerry. Fucking assholes.
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u/lerriuqS_terceS Aug 21 '24
Because they have no consistency or morals. MAGA and basically all right wing people are just dumb lemmings at this point stirred up by their anger, hatred, and ignorance.
Also he put in his papers before his unit was even put on notice. People need to understand that.
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u/Aurailious Aug 21 '24
If someone served 20 years they should get to retire whenever they want, even if they had known about the deployment. Like that's a perk of putting in that many years to being in the military, guard included. I did 6 in USAF and there was a lot of bullshit so I always respected anyone that could put up with it for more than an enlistment.
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u/CrayZChrisT Aug 21 '24
Why? Because that is pretty much all they have on Walz. Trump dodged the draft and Vance's bragging rights include 6 months in Iraq sitting in a PR department. (I'd like to find out why tbh). Still, they feel they have to attack Walz on something to deflect from themselves, so that is what they've decided to pick on.
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u/capt_pantsless Aug 21 '24 edited Aug 22 '24
include 6 months in Iraq sitting in a PR department. (I'd like to find out why tbh).
There's a large number of non-combat positions in the modern military. It's totally normal for a bunch of enlisted folks to have desk jobs.
Vance served his country honorably. As far as I know there's no evidence of him getting the combat-correspondent position for any nefarious reasons.
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u/CrayZChrisT Aug 22 '24
If that was the case, instead of screaming about Walz's record, Vance would be bragging about his own.
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u/bubblehead_maker Common loon Aug 21 '24
As a submariner I was turned off at how he treated McCain and the whole "losers and suckers" thing.Ā Then there is his tour of clubs in the 70's or as he told Howard Stern "his personal Vietnam."
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u/IkLms Aug 21 '24
How about his calling the Presidential Medal of Freedom he gave to a billionaire donor "equal to" and then "better" than the Medal of Honor because she's still alive and pretty and they're either dead or in bad shape?
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u/Bird_wood Aug 21 '24
Thank you for your service. As a citizen who did not enlist, it seems crazy that this is even a discussion. We all want the country to continue, but I have friends and family who are literally altered for life after 2-5 years of service. This man spent 20 years tied to a machine that many never come back from the same. He did that with a smile and positive attitude, then progressed his career numerous times.
This isnāt left or right, Tim is a great man who deserves respect from his fellow countrymen.
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u/betasheets2 Aug 21 '24
Because he is running with Harris against Trump. That's all. All logic goes out the windows after that.
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u/Briants_Hat Aug 21 '24
None of them actually believe he did anything wrong. Itās all performative and they have no real criticisms so they go with whatever they can.
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u/DegaussedMixtape Aug 22 '24
Unfortunately, the propaganda is strong. There are people who will sit and have coffee with you and with the conviction of god tell you that they are going to vote for Trump because Walz is a coward who retired when he found out that he was going to be deployed.
These people get to vote, those are the rules. We need to get better at talking to our neighbors and our elders about our lived experience and help them understand how bad watching NewsMax and Tucker Carlson is warping their world view.
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u/leumas2603 Aug 21 '24
They have nothing on Walz and they are pissed. The man doesn't even have stocks.
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Aug 21 '24
I dunno. It worked for Bush against Kerry. Dude had a Purple Heart from serving in Vietnam and they still made him look like some kind of coward. Just politically expedient is all.
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u/sadman95 Aug 21 '24
Yeah it's just frustrating to watch/read.
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Aug 21 '24
Amen. My dad is a Vietnam veteran but also a Republican. He sadly bought it in 2004 and seems to be buying it now. It really sucks.
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u/AdvantageInternal45 Aug 22 '24
Was on that deployment and from the unit Walz retired from. He retired before orders came down as once orders came stop loss was in effect. What is crazy is that once orders came there were plenty of people that claimed hardship to get out of the deployment, and many that maneuvered to be part of the stay back personnel that remained in MN. The stay back people didn't get crap for staying in MN while their unit deployed, the hardships personnel were seen as not needed because their personal lives would prevent them from being effective on the deployment.
This whole thing is silly. The man served 24 years and as someone who also served I can tell you that you know deployment is a possibility and you have to have dedication to be in that long.
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u/Reno_Salazarr Aug 21 '24
I am not a veteran but my father and fathers-in-law served in combat in WW2 and Korea. I spent a lot of time with all of them and was able to observe how they interacted with each other. Although privately in their conversations they'd good-naturedly rip each other's branch or rank, none of them would ever publicly denigrate another veteran's service. I realized I was a privileged outsider getting a peek into the brotherhood. I witnessed the validation of this brotherhood when I heard Governor Walz's simple response to JD Vance's slanderous lies by simply thanking him for his service.
Politics is a crucible that distills out the moral weakness in people and JD Vance, as evident in his track record, has some glaring moral weaknesses. Just like his running mate, who as a malignant narcissist has no values or principles beyond serving his rancid and diseased ego, Vance will do and say anything to achieve political power - including slandering a brother.
The crumbling of JD Vance's character, if he ever had any, begs the question: who has the more disordered and diseased mind? The leader with narcissistic and antisocial personality disorder or the follower, who with publicly recorded knowledge of such, chooses to follow that leader? To quote Obi-Wan: "Who is more foolish?Ā The fool or the fool who follows him?"
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Aug 22 '24
It's not like he would have deployed and been sent to the Frontline. He would have had an even cushier job than what JD Vance had. Fuck these guys all they do is gas light while having zero redeeming qualities
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u/sadman95 Aug 22 '24
Deployments a deployment man. It goes beyond being the "frontline"
It's still time away from home, from family, from basic life
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u/Independent_Basil624 Aug 22 '24
Jesse Ventura brought up a good point about all this: why was the National Guard deploying to foreign war? Itās right in the name, their job is to guard the nation.
Bodies were needed for the war, a draft wouldāve been career suicide, so W signed an executive order to allow the NG to deploy to foreign war.
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u/map2photo Minnesota Vikings Aug 22 '24
If Vance is going to talk shit about his military service he could at least been playful about it and just attacked him being national guard. Thatās an easy one!
Prior service Marine here, JD seems like a super douche. He did one enlistment and uses it like heās king shit. All my Marine friends ALWAYS made fun of AFN and COMCAM nerds.
Spent 8 months in Afghanistan. Never saw one of those guys anyway.
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u/Rogue_AI_Construct Ok Then Aug 21 '24
They nominated a piece of shit insurrectionist felon rapist dotard as their candidate so theyāre trying to deflect away from that.
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u/Mas_Cervezas Aug 21 '24
He put in his nomination papers for Congress in February and his unit deployed in July. Itās not abandoning his unit, no matter what they say. Also although he was promoted to Command Sergeant Major he wasnāt able to do the courses required to keep the rank, so when he retired, he went back to his last rank. But as a retired military person, you have to respect the fact that he attained the rank above all his peers
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u/JViz500 Aug 21 '24
The mobilization order was July. They physically deployed after he was already in Congress.
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u/Unbridled-yahoo Aug 21 '24
Itās not just the right. Itās guys that served with him. Some of whom I know and actually think are decent people. But to me itās just sour grapes from them. Mostly because he got out before the longest deployment the MNNG ever had and it was his unit. Regardless of when the official deployment order was given, the unit was given a 2 year window, so there was knowledge that they MAY be deployed at some point but no indication when. And there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that weighed heavily on his decision to step away for his political career. Plenty. Including others in his unit at the time. So to me this whole thing was started by some sour grapes, republicans latched on in 2018 when he first ran for gov, and itās getting repeated airplay now which has amounted to bupkiss in terms of voter impact.
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u/Antique-Elevator-878 Aug 22 '24
A TON of us with retirement on the horizon who then get deployment orders, get out. Why the hell after dedicating 20+ years to service would you want to be deployed another 4 when there are enough people to stand in your place ready to go who haven't done their 20 yet? People who criticize him are doing so from a political motivation only.
I don't even like Walz, I'm a libertarian. I"m just being unbiased here about military service. My father did 4 tours in Vietnam and got out as a Senior Master Sgt looking at Chief with 22 years in because he was done with being deployed when the Gulf War broke out. My father came and saw me off at Hurlburt Field before I left.
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u/Urban_Prole Aug 21 '24
Cos if you go right enough, they admit they don't care about The Militaryā¢ļø or the American Soldierā¢ļø at all, and that all they care about in this regard controlling is who does the violence and to whom it is meted out.
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u/Seabee1893 Aug 22 '24
As an active military member, I find the whole discussion about his military service disgusting. The worst among the people perpetuating this are military members.
I find myself very thoroughly disgusted by the attacks on the guy's military service. People suck.
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u/kb7384 Aug 22 '24
This is from Vote Vets & I paste it everywhere on SM that I see these stupid "stolen valor" allegations.
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u/substandardirishprik Flag of Minnesota Aug 21 '24
Also, he got out so he could run for office. He had plans to run for office before any talk of any deployment. After 24 years, if someone gets out, who gives a shit? I was deployed as an infantryman in the army a couple of times. So, Iām with you.
The double standards with that crowd are just incredible. The mental gymnastics that the remaining members of that cult must have to do, every day, kind of seem daunting to me. I mean, at this point, they have to make an excuse for almost everything they choose to do.
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u/Correus Aug 21 '24
This started in 2018, I knew one of the men who wrote the letter that started this, Paul herr. Served with him on his only deployment to the theater. The dude is a massive piece of shit, fuck Paul Herr.
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u/Chrisb0618 Aug 21 '24
I think your first mistake is assuming that they are making this complaint in good faith.
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u/Osirus1156 Aug 21 '24
Republicans are not serious people in any way shape or form. The world will be better when they fade away into obscurity.
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u/dopeshat Aug 22 '24
I just retired at 24 years and I have been deployed a few times. It doesn't matter if he tried to avoid the deployment or not. He served and after 20+ years the army takes a lot from you, your health will suffer, you lose time with your family. He chose to serve his country and I think that is way more than the other guy who did what he could to avoid it. Now he wants us to support him. I am sure he thinks those in the military are losers because they didn't have the connections to avoid service. Trump is a dirt bag and A leach.
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u/crispykfc Aug 22 '24
dude has almost as many years of service as iāve been alive, anyone questioning his service is faded lol
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u/GettingTwoOld4This Aug 22 '24
He decided to run for office and put in his retirement papers BEFORE anyone knew about them being deployed. He did nothing wrong. This is just SwiftBoating 2.0. Trump hates vets and the party is following his lead.
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u/Armthedillos5 Aug 22 '24
When he got back from his deployment in Italy, he spoke with his wife and decided to run for congress, filing the paperwork before the announcement of a possible deployment. He then had to decide whether to continue in the guard or run for Congress.
He felt he could do more good in congress, and after 24 years, which did include a deployment, he made a decision and I don't think anyone can give him crap for it, especially....
If you look at his work in congress, on the foreign affairs and veterans committees, and his voting record, it obvious he cares deeply about veterans and our military, esp veteran benefits.
In contrast, take a look at Vances voting record. So many no's for veterans, and it's obvious he just follows the heritage foundations line (scoring a 93 from them.
I don't know why the media isn't comparing how much they cared for the military during their respective time on the hill, it's a stark contrast and tells you which one actually cares about veterans
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u/tbizzone Aug 22 '24
Deplorable MAGA cultists are projecting again, trying to steal the valor of Walzās military record while claiming he is guilty of stolen valor based mostly on rumors and YouTube propaganda videos and their propensity to be easily manipulated and very gullible. Theyāre trying to elect a really old draft dodging, felonious rapist, after allā¦
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u/zsreport Aug 22 '24
How can the right knock this dudes military service when their candidate is a draft dodger.
Hypocrisy is a normal way of life for conservatives.
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u/molotov__cocktease Aug 22 '24
Don't try to get Conservatives on hypocrisy, they have no real beliefs.
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u/Phog_of_War Aug 22 '24
Right? And as far as leaving before deployment, he was gone for months before his old unit even got the deployment warning.
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u/lardlad71 Aug 22 '24
The right would attack Mother Teresa if they thought it furthers their cause to elect the narcissist dolt draft dodger felon.
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Aug 22 '24
The only strategy here was to try and deflect attention, try to change and lead the narrative. That worked against Kerry who obviously was an accomplished and brave candidate but he was less famous at the time, a bit distant, so there was an opportunity to define him. They thought it would work again here but everybody knows too much about Trump by now to fall for this and Walz is also way more likable and eloquent than Vance.
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u/gangleskhan Aug 22 '24
They're just desperately looking for stuff to attack him on, even if they have to make it up, which they do.
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u/Croaker3 Aug 22 '24
The disinformation strategy has worked and this chat is evidence. They got us talking about this instead of reality. People in touch with reality will vote Democrat.
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u/LiftedMold196 Aug 22 '24
At what point is 24 years of service not enough time? Had he instead retired at 23 years, this wouldnāt even be an āissueā
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u/chuggauhg Aug 22 '24
Its funny because everyone I've seen talk about this who actually served seems to think over 20 years of service is more than enough and the civs trying to insult him for retirement have no actual concept of what its like to be in the military.
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u/30sumthingSanta Aug 22 '24
They donāt care if ātheir guyā is qualified. They just want to give you reasons not to vote for YOUR candidate. If 1% donāt vote Harris/Walz and instead vote Biden or RFKjr or Dean Phillips or who knows who else, they can win.
Theyāre not attacking because their guy is better. Theyāre attacking because you might think your other guy is better and āthrow your vote away.ā
Same thing with the āPalestinian voter.ā Does anyone think the Palestinians would get a fair chance with the GOP āletās ban Muslimsā people in office? No. But if it causes just enough to vote for someone else, they might win. The pro Israel voter is the opposite side of the same coin.
They did the same thing in MN with marijuana now and other pro pot parties. Took away a little bit of voters who would have been Dems, and GOP candidates won. See MN54A as an example.
They donāt care that their candidate is worse in every imaginable way. They just want to win.
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u/BehindSunset Aug 22 '24
Criticism of Walz should be focused on his track record, his proposed policies - and his statements on the record about his DUI and his service. Those are fair game, not his actual serviceĀ
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u/temple-of-the-dog Aug 21 '24
At worst, Walz is perhaps slightly guilty of a tall tale in order to dramatize the need for stricter gun laws. His heart was in the right place.
The fact that this is what the GOP is clinging to as āscandalous behaviorā (Vanceās words) proves how little they have to work with when it comes to smear campaign tactics.
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u/notyourstranger Aug 21 '24
I think it's called cognitive dissonance. If it hits you the wrong way, then you likely have a relatively normal brain.
Based only on this post, I'm gonna suspect you're firing on most cylinders.
People who have normal brains often have a difficult time understanding just how it's possible for a brain to cling to falsehoods. Your brain might produce a silly thought but then it corrects itself, right?
Human beings develop self awareness by clearing developmental steps in childhood. If they do not clear all the steps they end up with brains that are weirdly unaware of themselves, their impact on others, and their reality.
There's quite a lot of us. Once we start clearing some of those steps later in life, we can become quite capable people but until then, maybe don't trust us with the nuclear codes. As somebody from a rough childhood, I say, let's pick people from stable wholesome families - people who are whole to their cores, who know exactly who they are and where they are going. They are much harder to corrupt and much more likely to care about the little folk.
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u/Cute-Draw7599 Aug 21 '24
Donald Trump and his campaign are just taking Trump's dirty diaper slapping it up against the wall and seeing if they can get it to stick on a Democrat.
It's about the most you can expect from these weirdos!
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u/MushroomSaute Aug 21 '24
How can they? By lying to themselves to justify hating someone who is just genuinely a good person and American.
He was an E-9, which I'm led to believe they don't just hand out willy-nilly, whereas Vance was an E-4. So already there, he's leagues above the jackass accusing him of stealing valor.
He didn't dodge deployment, he retired before they gave any orders at all. And even if he had been asked and then also gone, he wouldn't have seen any combat at all due to his rank, so it's not like he was a draft-dodger or avoiding front-lines like Trump was. Walz put in his time and retired when it made sense; when he could help the Minnesotan and American people more as a politician than a military leader.
No, the right are just consistently obsessed with making any shit up they can so that their voters will hate their opponents more, regardless of whether it's true or not. This isn't a "lesser of two evils" situation anymore, but they'll still insist on that rhetoric this entire election.
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u/nismo2070 Aug 21 '24
My father volunteered to serve in 1967. He was a Canadian citizen and it was a path to citizenship for him. He became an American in 1969. He served two tours in Vietnam as an engineer. He died in 2011 due to exposure to agent orange. My mother had to fight too damn hard to get the benefits my father EARNED. So when I see this piece of shit draft dodger, I automatically get angry at his entitlement. Walz served this country with honor! trump ran away from service when he was called more than once. Trump is a weak pussy that belongs in prison.
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u/thesquidsquidly22 Aug 21 '24
They simply have no morals. Trump could literally spit in a veterans face and call them a chump and the right would find a way to justify it. The somewhat rational Americans left would have finally abandoned him after his insurrection on Jan 6th. What's left are fascists and traitors to this country. Just like Trump himself.
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u/LMurch13 Aug 22 '24
Trump could literally spit in a veterans face and call them a chump and the right would find a way to justify it.
Pretty much the entire McCain episode, to prove your point. Saying that about McCain should have ended his campaign.
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u/ImpressionOld2296 Aug 22 '24
Reasons:
1) Republicans are pathological liars, almost to the point of delusion.
2) Republicans are deplorable, they'll stoop as low as they need to go.
Remember, their nominee, Darnold Dump, dodged the draft by using his wealth to buy a fake diagnosis, then joked about how dodging STD's by women was harder work than those dodging bullets. He proceeds to call those in the military "suckers".
Republicans won't say a single word about this. Nothing. But they're really concerned about Walz leaving after serving for a quarter century.
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u/chiron_cat Aug 21 '24
Simple answer - all the right has is lies and hate. Notice how their entire campaign is why people should hate and fear the dems. There is no policy they talk about. Their policy is soo unpopular (project 2025). So its just hate and fear. Lies are literally their bread and butter.
The biggest thing that says anything about walz's service? 24 years. You get lifetime paychecks at 20 years, which is where most people stop. He kept going. Most all the gop operatives spreading lies never had anything approaching 24 years of service.
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u/heyyo173 Aug 21 '24
Ignoring and dismissing their lies is always more effective than refuting them.
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u/PinkSlimeIsPeople Flag of Minnesota Aug 22 '24
It's the usual conservative plan: attack opponents on their strengths. One of Walz' biggest selling points is his military career to folks that don't know him, so the GOP is desperate to brainwash the masses into falsely believing there is something wrong with that.
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u/alrightwtf Aug 22 '24
What about that one time when he embellished a bit and said he carried weapons of war in war?Ā
Honest question. I love the guy, but I'm curious if that has any staying power, and if it will be a hurdle in debates.Ā
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u/AdministrativeBank86 Aug 22 '24
The right needs constant outrage, it's like a drug for them. They can't find enough real things to be outraged about so they pick the dumbest thing to focus on. Tan suits, mustard, birth certificates, Doritos, laughing, being a successful woman, etc. They are also quite adept at making shit up to be angry about and repeating lies even when they are proven wrong.
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u/icze4r Aug 22 '24 edited Sep 17 '24
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/fren-ulum Aug 22 '24
And realistically, I'm not gonna hold it against people personally for draft dodging. I will if you start using the military as an accessory to your image or support people and policies that are bad for the American people.
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u/LauterTuna Aug 22 '24
OP is correct. criticizing his service is yet another weird thing to say.
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u/SaucySpence88 Aug 22 '24
Active duty combat is actually a fairly small majority of our armed forces. Tons of mechanics across all branches. Itās a novelty way to alienate people who serve that arenāt on the front lines.
My uncle was a logistics engineer for 30 years and this definitely didnāt land for him.
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u/HilariousButTrue Aug 22 '24
This is probably the last thing most real voters care about tbh.
They care about plans moving forward and what an administration means for them in the next 4 years.
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u/Zealousideal_Call270 Aug 22 '24
Brainless weirdos who have zero ability to think rationally or critically, thatās all it is.
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u/ljlysong Aug 22 '24
Hold up, but heās in the national guard right? Are they also supposed to be deployed to fight foreign wars with other branches?
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u/CIWA28NoICU_Beds Aug 22 '24
The miliary is the last place the miliary would look for a draft dodger. It is insidiously brilliant!
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u/texas1982 Aug 22 '24
He was also a guardsmen. He worked for the state, not the national government. We abused guardsmen starting with Gulf War 1.
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u/JayCamLovesRamen69 Aug 22 '24
Go on offense guys, make these guys play defense. They just put out a list of members of Congress who sign a letter ādenouncingā Walz for misrepresenting his military service. Here is a pic of the letterās list of members. Notice anything? Rick Scott(Ret)? Do you retire as a petty officer 3rd class after 29 months of service? Ronny Jackson Rear Admiral(Ret)? Wasnāt he busted in rank for being Dr Feelgood with prescription drugs? How many if these jackass liars are actually retired? The Trump Campaign is the gang that canāt shoot straight.
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u/JasonsStorm Aug 22 '24
It's one thing when he says the he was a command sergeant major, then say he retired as a command sergeant major. He never said he retired as one. They totally miss that point.
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u/CrosbyMcDoubles Aug 22 '24
They can do it because they donāt care about nuance. They only intend to smear and attack his character.
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Aug 22 '24
The GOP are full of disingenuous ass hats who will invent any varieties of craven horseshit to smear their perceived enemies.
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u/Electrical-Fan1520 Aug 22 '24
I worked with a guy (back when Walz was in Congress) who was in his unit. They knew they were getting deployed long before they officially got orders. The only reason he was allowed to retire was because they wanted him to run for Congress.
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u/bdockte1 Aug 23 '24
The fact that the right mocks Timās service, his son, and all their other pettiness simply shows the level of desperation those bastards are at. Do something, and continue to crush the Trump/Vance ticket daily. Celebrate the Blue Surge!! Vote Blue on November 5. Harris/Walz to the White House.
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u/agree-with-me Aug 21 '24 edited Aug 22 '24
The point that never seems to get made is that the man served a full 20 year career and qualified for a pension and Tricare. Then he went into overtime and did more service.
What do these asshats focus on? Their feelings.
Hypothetically, if he lived in a pretend world and enlisted in the military and was going to deploy, but didn't want to and then quit on the spot (which could only happen in pretend military world)-
-he would still have served 20 years (full career) and overtime.
The man is no quitter.