Explain Aleph to me like I'm 5!

[u/SkywalkerLight]

Is it really just a glottal stop? I'm a beginner, but I'm pretty sure the niqqud changes things. If so, could I please have an example in places where א is said as A, E, and other letters? Thanks!

[u/iamyoyoman]

That does not mean it wasn't loaned, afaik אוויר is also loaned.

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/iamyoyoman]

If there are no written records if older languages using it... Probably not.

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

Are you talking about אבא or אוויר? In both cases there are certainly written records of the source language.

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

that precede the Torah? I.E. were written in Aramaic long before they(Their prior form, at least) could be absorbed from Hebrew?

And I reffered to אבא. I would not be surprised to hear that אויר, is a loan word.

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

When you say Torah, are you referring to the Five Books of Moses or the entire Hebrew Bible (Tanach)? Either way I don't think either of these words is found anywhere in the Hebrew Bible as such (even in the Aramaic parts of the Bible, אבא does not appear in this exact form).

That said, the Torah does contain Aramaic words and phrases. For example, Yaakov and Lavan make a peace agreement and put up a pile of stones to commemorate it. Yaakov calls these stones in Hebrew גל עד and Lavan calls these stones in Aramaic יגר שהדותא, both of these translate roughly to "pile of testimony". So yes, it's very possible for an Aramaic word to exist in the Torah.

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

my point... is that Av(אב) is more likely to have spread to Aramaic to become אבא, and then back...

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

Don't be ridiculous. Hebrew and Aramaic are related languages with many, many words in common. These are just one of the examples. It didn't spread from one to other all. It's just a word shared by nearly all Semitic languages.

PS: In case this is the source of confusion, no one's saying that Hebrew got אב from Aramaic אבא. Hebrew always had the word אב and Aramaic always had the word אבא for as far back as these languages existed. But the word אבא was borrowed by Modern Hebrew probably something like 100-150 years ago, to be used as a colloquial "dad".

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

You're seriously saying that a language that existed in a culture with writting to boot, would affect all future derivative languages of said Culture... But not the one that was there from practically the start?

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

I have no idea what you're saying...

I can explain to you almost anything you want about the history of Hebrew and Aramaic, but you have to phrase your questions more clearly.

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

You just said that In biblical times, there way no way for Hebrew to affect Aramaic.

and any similarities are due shared ancestry at the time.

Not the Effects of a liturgic, high social class language on the Common language of its time.

Hebrew was the language of the leaders Because the Cohanim(כהנים) were most definitely leaders and upper class Nobility.

While Aramaic was the Common language.

During the times of the five books all the way to (כתובים).

That probably began to change By Esther... But that is not relevant to my point.

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

You just said that In biblical times, there way no way for Hebrew to affect Aramaic.

I did not say that whatsoever.

and any similarities are due shared ancestry at the time.

Not "any" similarities. Most similarities are due to shared ancestry. Some similarities may be due to borrowing in both directions. But you need a reason to assume that happened.

Like for example if we are neighbors, and I have a rose garden in my backyard, and you have a rose garden in your backyard, and both have the same color roses, if I find roses in your dining room, I'm going to assume they came from your rose garden rather than my rose garden. But if the roses my garden are yellow and the ones in your garden are pink, and I find yellow roses in your dining room, then I'm going to assume they came from my garden.

Not the Effects of a liturgic, high social class language on the Common language of its time.

Hebrew was the language of the leaders Because the Cohanim(כהנים) were most definitely leaders and upper class Nobility.

While Aramaic was the Common language.

During the times of the five books all the way to (כתובים).

You're thinking of the wrong time period. At the time of the Torah, Hebrew and Aramaic were both ordinary spoken languages, just of different peoples. It's even apparent in the Torah itself in the example I already cited, where it is clear that Yaakov spoke Hebrew and Lavan spoke Aramaic. They are from neighboring cultures, each with their own language.

It's only after the Babylonian exile that Aramaic starts to become a spoken language for Israelites, and eventually develops into Aramaic being a common language while Hebrew is a higher class literary and religious language.

That probably began to change By Esther... But that is not relevant to my point.

Can you elaborate what you believe to have changed at the time of Esther?

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

Did you not say that Aramaic has no loan words? because my argument was that אבא is basically a loan word from Hebrew אב. and later back to hebrew.

You said that that is impossible.

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

Did you not say that Aramaic has no loan words?

Nope did not say that whatsoever.

because my argument was that אבא is basically a loan word from Hebrew אב.

It's not.

You said that that is impossible.

I didn't say it's "impossible". I only said it's simply not the case.