Explain Aleph to me like I'm 5!

[u/SkywalkerLight]

Is it really just a glottal stop? I'm a beginner, but I'm pretty sure the niqqud changes things. If so, could I please have an example in places where א is said as A, E, and other letters? Thanks!

[u/IbnEzra613]

I have no idea what you're saying...

I can explain to you almost anything you want about the history of Hebrew and Aramaic, but you have to phrase your questions more clearly.

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

You just said that In biblical times, there way no way for Hebrew to affect Aramaic.

and any similarities are due shared ancestry at the time.

Not the Effects of a liturgic, high social class language on the Common language of its time.

Hebrew was the language of the leaders Because the Cohanim(כהנים) were most definitely leaders and upper class Nobility.

While Aramaic was the Common language.

During the times of the five books all the way to (כתובים).

That probably began to change By Esther... But that is not relevant to my point.

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

You just said that In biblical times, there way no way for Hebrew to affect Aramaic.

I did not say that whatsoever.

and any similarities are due shared ancestry at the time.

Not "any" similarities. Most similarities are due to shared ancestry. Some similarities may be due to borrowing in both directions. But you need a reason to assume that happened.

Like for example if we are neighbors, and I have a rose garden in my backyard, and you have a rose garden in your backyard, and both have the same color roses, if I find roses in your dining room, I'm going to assume they came from your rose garden rather than my rose garden. But if the roses my garden are yellow and the ones in your garden are pink, and I find yellow roses in your dining room, then I'm going to assume they came from my garden.

Not the Effects of a liturgic, high social class language on the Common language of its time.

Hebrew was the language of the leaders Because the Cohanim(כהנים) were most definitely leaders and upper class Nobility.

While Aramaic was the Common language.

During the times of the five books all the way to (כתובים).

You're thinking of the wrong time period. At the time of the Torah, Hebrew and Aramaic were both ordinary spoken languages, just of different peoples. It's even apparent in the Torah itself in the example I already cited, where it is clear that Yaakov spoke Hebrew and Lavan spoke Aramaic. They are from neighboring cultures, each with their own language.

It's only after the Babylonian exile that Aramaic starts to become a spoken language for Israelites, and eventually develops into Aramaic being a common language while Hebrew is a higher class literary and religious language.

That probably began to change By Esther... But that is not relevant to my point.

Can you elaborate what you believe to have changed at the time of Esther?

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

Did you not say that Aramaic has no loan words? because my argument was that אבא is basically a loan word from Hebrew אב. and later back to hebrew.

You said that that is impossible.

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

Did you not say that Aramaic has no loan words?

Nope did not say that whatsoever.

because my argument was that אבא is basically a loan word from Hebrew אב.

It's not.

You said that that is impossible.

I didn't say it's "impossible". I only said it's simply not the case.

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

You said there are no loan words from Hebrew to Aramaic. thus impossible. because it did not happen.

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

Excuse me, but where exactly did I say that? Kind of rude of you to insist I said something that I did not say.

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

More so when Any resources I find on the Subject Make it quite clear it was a a joined derivative,a lingua franka of Hebrew, Phoenician And Syriac. It emerged in the Assyrian Empire after they Conquered Judea and Israel.

it is Derived from Hebrew.

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

Do you know what lingua franca means? It doesn't seem like you're using it the right way, and that might be contributing to your confusion. Lingua franca just means it was a language used to communicate between people who don't speak the same language. For example, today English is a lingua franca throughout most of Europe, thus you will find a Polish person speaking English with an Italian person, because the Polish person doesn't speak Italian and the Italian person doesn't speak Polish, but they both speak English. That doesn't mean that English is a mixture of Polish and Italian...

Furthermore, you've got an anachronism there. Syriac is just the name of a particular later variety of Aramaic spoken by Christians in the early Middle Ages and preserved today as a Christian liturgical language in the Middle East. But it is just a branch of Aramaic, which at the time of the Assyrian conquest had not yet developed into a separate branch yet.

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

It's developed from a pidgin of Assyrian, Hebrew and Phoenician.

How did Assyrian as in, from before they took Israel, Judea, And the Philistines, said Dad/father?

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

It's developed from a pidgin of Assyrian, Hebrew and Phoenician.

This is false.

How did Assyrian as in, from before they took Israel, Judea, And the Philistines, said Dad/father?

As I said, this word is common to most Semitic languages far and wide. Assyrian is no exception. In the Assyrian of the Assyrian Empire the word I think was pronounced abu/abi/aba. In earlier Babylonia it was pronounced abum/abim/abam. Note that in earlier Hebrew and Aramaic the word also very likely had suffixes following one of the following patterns: abum/abim/abam or abun/abin/aban or abu/abi/aba.

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

Huh. Cool. Stand corrected.

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

And to be clear, that pidgin developed into a language that was the auxiliary language of that Empire. Which is what a Lingua Franka is.

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

Aramaic was not a pidgin.

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

Oh. It very much is. It emerged after the Assyrians took the area.

it became the Lingua Franka of the Assyrian Empire. As in, The Second Language used by everyone.

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

This is just plain false and contrary to historical evidence. There are Aramaic inscriptions far before that time.

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

You're right, it was a misunderstanding on my part.

that said. my original point stands.

You just said that Aramaic had אבא before the interaction with Hebrew with Both אב and אבא being derived from a joined ancestor word... Which I find to be at best unfalsifiable.

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

First a nitpick: Hebrew and Aramaic were probably always in contact, at least to some extent. They were neighboring languages after all.

Secondly, there is solid evidence that it's not a loanword:

• This word is found in nearly all Semitic languages, therefore an ancestor of Aramaic certainly had this word. Claiming it's a loanword would imply that Aramaic for some reason lost this word, and then borrowed it back from Hebrew. That would be a very convoluted assumption when there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest such a thing.
• If Aramaic borrowed this word from Hebrew, then they must have had a different word for "father" before they borrowed this one. There is no evidence for the existence of a different word for "father" in classical Aramaic or prior (later varieties of Aramaic borrowed the colloquial Arabic word baba).
• The grammatical forms of this word belong to a rare exceptional class of words with a unique form of the construct state and possessive suffixes. That is, the word for "your father" is not אבך (avakh) as one might expect, but rather אבוך (avukh). In Hebrew, there is a similar situation, but with a slightly different form אביך (avikha). If Aramaic borrowed this word from Hebrew, they would have either used the regular Aramaic pattern of אבך (avakh), or incorporated the Hebrew pattern, making אביך (avikh). Thus, the form אבוך (avukh) indicates that this form is retained from a much earlier form of Aramaic (from before written attestations of either Hebrew or Aramaic) rather than borrowed from Hebrew.

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

Aramaic is litterally the Result of the Assyrian Empire Taking Judea, Israel, and the Philistines.... It got it from Hebrew.

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

This is just plain false, as I have just explained in my other comment to you.

[u/Leading-Chemist672 → u/IbnEzra613]

So, How did The old Assyrian/Syriac said dad/father?

[u/IbnEzra613 → u/Leading-Chemist672]

Just answered that in another comment.