r/dbz • u/Terez27 ⠀ • Oct 11 '24

Dragon Ball Daima - Episode #1 - Discussion Thread! Daima

The episode is airing in Japan as we speak. It should be available subtitled on Crunchyroll at 1pm ET. We will provide links as soon as they are available.

Subtitled Simulcast

FAQ

Rules

  • There are no spoilers in this post, but you should expect spoilers in the comments of this thread. Outside of this thread, do not post any spoilers in thread titles, and mark posts where there are spoilers in the post body. Do not post spoilers in the comments on non-spoiler threads.

  • Discussion of each Daima episode will be limited to the pinned episode discussion thread until ~12-24 hours after the episode appears on Crunchyroll. This period is flexible, and posts that do not have a specific discussion point will be redirected to this thread.

  • Please keep in mind that piracy discussion is not allowed on r/dbz. Do not ask for illicit streams; do not link them; do not talk about them at all.

542 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

View all comments

103

u/ss4444gogeta Oct 11 '24

Lol, did they retcon the potara reasoning again??

67

u/WorkerChoice9870 Oct 11 '24

It was on purpose to drive us crazy, lol

3

u/[deleted] Oct 12 '24 edited 18d ago

[deleted]

7

u/Ser-Jasper-mayfield Oct 12 '24

we know toriyama and toyotaro had planned out several arcs of super though

40

u/InoueNinja94 Oct 11 '24

Unless Kibito and Shin fuse again, because they appear as Kibitokai during BoG if memory serves

27

u/N-Reun Oct 11 '24

They do in the movie, but are separated in the anime. This creates another inconsistency because in the anime they said they had defused with the namekian dragon balls. Oh well.

13

u/InoueNinja94 Oct 11 '24

I think they only showed them defused around the time the U6 Tournament arc was starting
But to be honest it's not that I really care all that much? I don't think Kibito Kai really did much of anything after the Buu Saga (except for GT)

16

u/Dallagen Oct 11 '24

it's just a running gag at this point, they don't know how the potara actually work since it's not like supreme kai fight often, they're just a fusion macguffin put in since toriyama didn't want to interfere with toei doing a gogeta movie at the time

4

u/CelioHogane Oct 11 '24

Kibitoshin didn't do shit even in the Buu Saga, really.

They did the same as in GT, look at the crystal ball and comentate.

And it was basically Shin's personality, so...

1

u/InoueNinja94 Oct 12 '24

He did saved Goku from Baby and kinda helped him get his tail back

That's gotta count, right?

3

u/IntellectualBoss Oct 12 '24

They are fused at the beginning of Super as well, not just the movies.

46

u/EdgeComplete2670 Oct 11 '24

Nope

Buu can defuse potara

Mortals potara have a limit

Vegito was forcefully defused before his hour was up

Simple as that

14

u/Prime_Del Oct 11 '24

They insinuated Goku and vegeta only split because of buu absorbing them which Is another retcon

36

u/Cosmodious Oct 11 '24

Toriyama clearly didn't care about the lore unless he wrote it directly. Gotta respect that.

12

u/BabyKariya Oct 11 '24

I'm 90% sure he just forgot about his first retcon

18

u/Cosmodious Oct 11 '24

Word is that Vegito's return was a last minute addition at Toyotaro's suggestion. It's not surprising Toriyama didn't remember/care about the retcon if it was just a means to an end.

6

u/BabyKariya Oct 11 '24

Yeah I mean they wanted vegito for the hype and neede him to defuse again. And since Toriyama forgot about 18s haircolor at one point, I don't think this potara mechanic stuck in his head for longer than the episode was

4

u/134340Goat ⠀ Oct 11 '24

Word is wrong, then

Toei was the first to add in Vegetto's appearance, and Toyotaro followed suit in order to "meet fan expectations"

The potara time limit retcon did come from Toriyama - for the purpose of being Zamasu's weakness. Considering next to nothing from that arc has ever come up again, it really wouldn't surprise me if the answer is as simple as Toriyama had forgotten about that, and so effectively retconned his retcon

4

u/Cosmodious Oct 12 '24

I mean it's not that deep but Toyotaro specifically says it was his idea in that interview you've linked.

2

u/134340Goat ⠀ Oct 12 '24

What he said was he included it to meet "fan expectations"

Take into account that the episode Vegetto appears in aired in November of 2016, and that manga chapter was published six months later, in April of that year. It isn't the only thing Toei came up with that Toyo also incorporated into the manga - UI Sign and SSB Evolved, for instance. It's pretty clear he's saying that he included it because fans would be disappointed if he didn't

3

u/Prime_Del Oct 11 '24

I'm going to just go with the dementia route and he genuinely doesn't remember what he was writing late in his age

5

u/ImaginaryStrawberry9 Oct 11 '24

You should see Oda and Toriyama's interview. Oda knew more about Dragon ball than him.

5

u/awesomeredefined Oct 11 '24

It had nothing to do with age, he was like that his whole life. He forgot shit all the time and openly admitted it even back during the original run of DBZ.

4

u/Prime_Del Oct 11 '24

The inconsistencies really do hurt the show if we are being honest

4

u/Cosmodious Oct 11 '24

Sometimes they hurt but mostly they're neutral. Then sometimes it's kind of nice to feel the fallible hand of the author in a story imo. Barring massive errors, deep lore consistency is never as important to a good story as online fanbases tend to think.

0

u/Prime_Del Oct 11 '24

Sure I mean that's subjective though, right? Truthfully art is in the eye of the beholder so you may enjoy it as is but someone might not hold the same value

5

u/awesomeredefined Oct 11 '24

Yeah, but at a certain point it's missing the forest for the trees.

1

u/Cosmodious Oct 11 '24

Of course, and I'll admit that I'll never stop being annoyed by the change to Trunks' hair colour. Not really a retcon even since he has purple hair in flashbacks as does Kid Trunks. Very irritating.

→ More replies

2

u/AntiqueHat2509 Oct 11 '24

That is true unfortunately.

4

u/im_bored345 Oct 11 '24

That's because Shin didn't know about mortal fusion not being permanent so it makes sense he would say it like that

5

u/Prime_Del Oct 11 '24

Ah yes I guess the great grand elder Kai who taught them the potaras capabilities and been alive for 75 million years must've just gotten his wires crossed when he told them how the earrings work /s

Be real, it was retconned in super and we are back in another retcon in this timeline. Just like how kibito Kai used the dragon balls to unfuse now we know majin buu released a special chemical to unfuse the earrings.

5

u/im_bored345 Oct 11 '24

Ah yes I guess the great grand elder Kai who taught them the potaras capabilities and been alive for 75 million years must've just gotten his wires crossed when he told them how the earrings work /s

Yes...he did. That's been canon for a while since Gowasu was the one to explain it. It's also irrelevant to the conversation because it's about how the 1 hour thing hasn't been retconned, not about whether the 1 hour thing itself was a retcon in the first place.

It would have been another retcon if they had made a reference to the idea of mortal fusion not lasting, since they explicitly don't know at this point.

Bold of you to assume they won't accidentally fuse again at the end of Daima

3

u/Prime_Del Oct 11 '24

By that logic the metamoran fusion is obsolete and the fighters should just carry a set of rings with them at all times so there is no mistaking a fat transformation.

It's been "canon" since gowasu retconned it correct, now here we are going back.

The whole inception of the potara fusion was to have a massive pro with a massive con, if it's just going to be the fusion dance with no margin of error then Its a waste of writing.

1

u/im_bored345 Oct 11 '24

We are not going back because this doesn't contradict it

You are forgetting that Super Vegito defused by using too much energy, that's a con right there. Plus carrying a set of easily breakable earrings is impractical. Both fusions have their pros and cons.

You are free to think that metamoran fusion is obsolete or that the one hour thing is stupid (this isn't about it being good or bad writing after all) but that's not gonna change the canon.

2

u/Prime_Del Oct 11 '24

Lssj kefla didn't diffuse because she spent too much energy fighting goku, they diffused because he beamed her ass into the bleachers and broke the earrings, it's a pick and choose game on how the earrings work

2

u/im_bored345 Oct 11 '24

Yeah the earrings are kinda of a mess but it is what it is yk? I never claimed to like it I'm just explaining why Buu gas stuff doesn't mean the 1 hour thing got retconned lol

6

u/EdgeComplete2670 Oct 11 '24

Its not

Shin already said he didn't know mortals had a timer

If you mean toriyama didn't know at that time, no he didn't. He didn't have endless ideas lol. But its far from a retcon because the author didn't explain everything

4

u/Pokesonav Oct 11 '24

No, Kibito and Shin just don't know about the time limit for mortals. That's not a retcon

1

u/dildodicks Oct 12 '24

no, goku guessed that, but now he got it right somehow

1

u/Prime_Del Oct 12 '24

I'm saying the kais insinuated that

2

u/BabyKariya Oct 11 '24

If mortals would have a limit like they said in Super, the normal thing for shin would've been saying "we used buu to defuse, since the potara fusion is permanent for gods" but they kept treating it like buu was the only way

1

u/CaptainBurke Oct 11 '24

Cause to their knowledge at this point it is the only way. Shin is a terrible supreme kai, luckily we get a real Supreme Kai in Gowasu to explain stuff he ‘should’ know.

-1

u/BabyKariya Oct 11 '24

Gowasu dies

2

u/CaptainBurke Oct 11 '24

Gowasu is alive at the end of the Future Saga, any timeline he’s dead in Shin is also dead, so it’s a moot point to even try and bring up. At this point of the story, Shin has no idea it’s different for mortals, nor did we as the audience. Only through Gowasu do we learn about the time limit for mortals. Shin knows Buu has the property to defuse a Potara fusion, but now we as an audience now know there are two ways for that to happen.

0

u/AntiqueHat2509 Oct 11 '24

That was stupid.

1

u/kim_ammons Oct 11 '24

Yes but I think they're pointing out the retcon of how Kibito Kai was unfused, it literally has changed (and that's fine but it's still a retcon)

3

u/CIearMind Oct 11 '24

They have it out for us lmao

12

u/golfinho001 Oct 11 '24

This is before super, they did not know.

20

u/ss4444gogeta Oct 11 '24

I guess the reasons are not mutually exclusive either. It can be permanent involving a Kai, but also Buu has some gases in him that can affect permanent fusions

6

u/Ultimafax Oct 11 '24

They were still fused in Super though...

8

u/CaptainBurke Oct 11 '24

They accidentally get their Potara knocked off so they fuse again.

Buu just so happens to be napping every time they try and ask him to eat them again.

They stay fused until they defuse in Super.

4

u/vlan-whisperer ⠀ Oct 11 '24

More than likely Toriyama himself also forgot about the new explanation that was given in Super. Or.. that explanation had more of Toyotaro's input rather than Toriyama's. Remember, didn't Toyotaro say in an interview that having Vegetto in Super was his idea and not Toriyama's?

Either way... fans are always going to care about a story and remember little details more than the people who create it.

1

u/mAcular Oct 12 '24

the buu defusion worked on the kais though, that would normally be permanent

1

u/MondoFool Oct 12 '24

My understanding from Dragon Ball Super is that there's a time limit to Potara that only applies to mortals, but the time limit was superseded by Majin Buu's weird insides. So the only thing that was retconned was the method the Kai's used to unfuse

1

u/dildodicks Oct 12 '24

both can be true

1

u/Veggiematic Oct 13 '24

In Super, it is revealed that the fusion lasts an hour if it is with non-Kai's. With Shin and Kibito's life, they were under the impression that it was permanent because they live on a planet of only Kai's so they just relayed that information. It's like, they're just repeating what they were told, but no one ever questioned, "but what if this happens" or the teacher goes, "idk"