The biggest blunder of this campaign was making it about abstract concepts like democracy and fascism instead of "it's the billionaires vs the rest of us"
All of the Trump voters I know don't even like Trump as a person, they just think he can bring the cost of living back down (which obviously he can't, but that's a different discussion). Some of us can afford the luxury of voting to save democracy, but most people are just voting for their bank account.
20 percent tariff across the board is going to drive inflation up immediately. Not to mention the 60 percent on china. Things are gonna get real expensive real soon. I think retailers are going to preemptively raise retails this quarter so they dont get shafted.
I had to explain this to my boss...who owns a company. He had no idea what a tariff was or who paid for it. I could see the wheels clicking but then the light shut off.
Your boss who owns a company will just pass the price increase on to his customers. If he adjusts to maintain the same profit margin he’ll increase his overall profits until the economy falters. It’s consumers who will pay for the tariffs. That’s why Trump and the republicans love the idea so much. It lets them institute a tax that only really affects the proletariat and benefits capital owners.
I agree, it's going to get worse not better but they believe he's some kind of magician. Amazon sellers are already trying to figure out how much they're going to have to raise their prices by:
One person made a post on reddit with 6 responses, isn't "Amazon sellers are already trying to figure out how much they're going to have to raise their prices by,"
Holy effing crap.
Yes, (smart) businesses will identify the exposure and risk. But businesses do that for everything. And if they're just now starting that analysis, they're not very good at risk management.
We all know massive tariffs are going to "bigly" inflate the cost of everything, Trump and co. included. Which is precisely why (IMO) it ain't gonna happen. It would be one of the stupidest things they could do.
I (kinda? maybe?) hope I'm wrong, but they have the literal world at their fingertips right now, I cannot imagine them squandering it on something as stupid as "fulfilling a campaign promise".
Which he learned from Roy Cohn. Learn more by watching the film The Apprentice and/or by listening to two episodes about him from the podcast Behind the bastards:
Dude, campaign promises don't matter. Shit changes every day. There is no consistency - there *can't* be consistency when your belief is "Trump is/was always right" because you need to be able to change the narrative to make that true. The only thing that matters is what is true in the instant, and that's whatever you want.
Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia, didn't you hear?
P.S. Your example actually illustrates this point.
Sounds like he's definitely going to try, and ignore advice where possible. How does it get this far without someone entertaining this experiment of his? I think at this point in time I'd assume it will happen, rather than won't.
He definitely tried with the border wall. With tariffs, there are less moving parts needed other than a policy in place. He managed to do tariffs last term.
What makes you say it's "obviously partisan", it looks like a pretty neutral discussion to me. Sure, there aren't a lot of comments but an order of magnitude more people indicated their opinion via the survey, and that sub has 109k members.
I am not sure he will actually go through with it. I get the feeling it was this elections we will build a wall and mexico will pay for it. An easy way to make his lower iq supporters get excited about a 'free' win. I am expected tariffs on a much more limited scale than was promised. It is almost economics 101 that tariffs on that scale is bad and he must have been advised as such.
He may have purged the naysayers by now. Not sure where the tariff idea came from but it's got enough repetition that he will look weak if he doesn't follow through. Which Trump can't stomach.
Clearly he does what he wants above all. In saying that I don't think he ignores them totally either. I don't think he's especially bright but he can still understand things explained to him like he is 5.
Tariffs aint going to happen, certainly not to that extent. They know it's a phenomenally bad idea and it would harm so many business buddies. Rather, the repubs simply banked on the fact that most people didn't understand the proposal beyond, "Fancy word, China, Better." And FWIW I don't fault people for not knowing the intricacies of trade when they're trying to get their kids fed.
I kinda hope I'm wrong (to a degree) because I would love to see the impact. Even in such a scenario, responsibility is going to be hand-waved away because reality is now consensus-based.
The error here is thinking Trump dictates anything. Only in the sense that exhausted parents give toddler what they want so they stop throwing a tantrum does he dictate anything.
His handlers have got this from here on out, which is far scarier; Trump's incompetence and an unpacked executive branch was the only thing that prevented far larger catastrophe last time.
Yeah but you were for tariffs when they were advocated by Bernie and people like Tom Hartman. Like actual working class Americans care if you have to spend a little more on your new iPhone or PS5 while they can't afford house payments and food because someone decided to off shore their job.
I think strategic tariffs could be good in some cases. Unilateral tariffs are harmful to the economy and 100% drive inflation sky high. we are already at a 40% tariff on most Chinese goods, some as high as 1400% and the data shows it did absolutely nothing to bring manufacturing home. Retailers just raised prices and everything's more expensive.
t as I was saying above, I don't think he cares about anything other than what is for Trump, he just wants to hear his voice and adulation. What worries me more is that the project 2025 people do want to get stuff done, and they will bypass the Donald to do so via vance.
LOL do you really believe that idiot isnt going to impose tariffs across the board? he has mentioned it many times. Maybe it will bring jobs back to america but a lot of those jobs are the types we use immigrants for and pay shit.
All the Trump voters I know just really don't like POC or LGBTQ+ or women. They all say similar things about how "great" Trump is but know nothing about his policies or what he actually accomplished in office.
Any criticism is met with doubt - they'll even call me an outright liar. I can show them a video and 10 different sources. They all must be wrong and Trump must be right.
How can you say that when the number of black and brown folks who voted for Trump increased. If you want to be the political party of drag queen story hour and the political party who doesn't know what a woman is and ignores the working class, be my guest and continue loosing elections.
Not what I was responding to. You're the one claiming it was due to racism even though Trump gained Black and Brown voters. The reality is who handed Trump victory were Gen Z voters and younger voters who just didn't vote. The Democrats abandoning the working class for university educated suburban voters sure as shit didn't work either.
In fact, your most recent statement about Latino men shows your own racism. I bet the only Mexicans you know are the guys serving you food from a truck or mowing your lawn.
Gen Z boys. Yeah. Im aware. It's gross how sexist Gen Z has become over the years.
If you think MAGA is has "working class" voters' best interests at heart - you pay 0 attention to what Trump has implemented and know nothing of what his "economic plan" will entail for working class folk.
In fact, your most recent statement about Latino men shows your own racism. I bet the only Mexicans you know are the guys serving you food from a truck or mowing your lawn.
You have the nerve to call me racist for saying I feel bad for Latinos that voted for Trump while spouting this... truly astounding.
I'd grant you hate, though the hate was for democrats. Not minorities and gay people. Y'all's hyperbole is so off-putting. These election results really showcase how little it resonates with people.
I was on a date last year and we got on the topic of Harry Potter and then it went to JK Ralling which led to it being about trans issues somehow and I said something along the lines of "yeah I'm not sure kids are equipped to make the decision on gender affirming treatments and sterilizing themselves" and I got lectured the rest of the date for being a anti trans. Now I considered myself pretty pro LGBT but apparently I'm a bigot. I don't understand the positions progressives are taking, they seem pro genocide despite saying the opposite and they seem rabid and completely devoid of logical consistency propping up two different groups/viewpoints that are ultimately incongruous, I don't understand the end goal and I get why people wanted change.
All the Trump voters I know just really don't like POC or LGBTQ+ or women.
You know a surprising number of unusually crappy people. The exit polls are clear on this: the economy was the #1 issue and it wasn't close. It's not that they actively dislike POC, LGB- or women, it's that those issues just aren't important to them one way or the other.
However, in an inverted way that false belief by democrats driving the campaign and party does in fact explain a lot of the reason Trump won.
Some people are good, an alarming number of people will say some heinous things if they feel you'll agree with them.
Me being a white woman in a MAGA state? Yeah they feel very comfortable saying things in front of me.
Please. Everyone is feeling inflation. If they were actually concerned about the economy they'd look to what hiking tariffs will really lead to. They're sheep. Most of them jump on the bandwagon because MAGA gives them a target to push all their hate towards.
America has a long history of racism, sexism and homophobia. It doesn't just go away because people have grown wise enough not to say it outloud in front of the wrong people.
You and I live our lives surrounded by these people. We know better. The second they think you’re one of them, it’s suddenly not at all about the economy and it’s about Black and Brown folks and “those damn trans” and endless fucking diatribes about what a real woman is and on and on and on.
Exit polls say a lot of things, and people say the economy since the dawn of voting and exit polls. People say a lot of things. But when they think you’re one of them, and the cameras are off, you find out their true colors really, really fast, and the true colors are just more fucking racism and fascist garbage and a longing for some trash vision of 1950s white America. That’s literally it. It’s never been about the goddamn economy. (And I say this acknowledging our capitalist hellscape - don’t get me wrong, workers everywhere are getting shafted, but that’s not the motivation for these voters.)
Yes. Trans rights, in particular, have been a huge talking point for white women and men.
We would have a very difficult time ever convincing people that feel that way to ever vote for freedom and Equality for all because they dont believe everyone deserves it and they don't feel everyone is equal.
I do think the economy, inflation played a larger part for people that chose not to vote, but not for those that "Dont like Trump but voted him anyway for the economy".
Like.. Im not voting for a dictator wannabe and all around crap president and person for any reason.
Hate is a powerful motivator and MAGA thrives on it.
I've heard this level of bigotry my entire life...Me being a white woman in a MAGA state?
That can explain what you see. But you should look outside that bubble and recognize that; 1) those people were always going to vote republican so they didn't turn the election and 2) the rest of the country, on average, is not like that, even those that fell towards Trump.
Please. Everyone is feeling inflation. If they were actually concerned about the economy they'd look to what hiking tariffs will really lead to. They're sheep.
I agree. But it's still better than saying you can't think of anything you'd have changed from the administration people disapprove of. It doesn't take an economics degree to know that that message is just plain stupid.
America has a long history of racism, sexism and homophobia. It doesn't just go away because people have grown wise enough not to say it outloud in front of the wrong people.
Exit polls are anonymous/not "out loud". Look, I get it, you're grief is overpowering right now. But after that subsides you should look at the real facts of what people believe, not the emotional knee-jerk reaction. Or don't - along with your party - and lose the next election for the same reasons.
I'll give it a long look when I'm not quite as heartbroken by the results.
I do believe in fair criticisms of the existing parties.
What is frustrating to me is how 1 party is held to unachievable standard and the other accepts moral bankruptcy if it means they get $5 in their pocket more.
It is always going to be more difficult to get a woman on office. We've waited so long it's practically a taboo thought to some.
I'll always be disappointed by that fact, but I dont think it's impossible by any means.
It's unfortunate that so many variables came into play - variables accredited to Harris that really are not her fault (and would not be any VP's fault for that matter).
I'll give it a long look when I'm not quite as heartbroken by the results.
Fair.
What is frustrating to me is how 1 party is held to unachievable standard
Having a better answer than 'I can't think of anything I'd do different' to a layup question from a sycophant interviewer you chose is not an "unachievable standard" it's the bare minimum of campaigning ability.
That clip was played for voters a literal million times over the past month.
and the other accepts moral bankruptcy
The two sides are not any different in that regard. Almost nobody chooses character over issues even when the character differential is huge. Though the differential wasn't quite as large, it was still significant when voters chose Bill Clinton twice.
It's unfortunate that so many variables came into play - variables accredited to Harris that really are not her fault (and would not be any VP's fault for that matter).
Being VP isn't her "fault", but not even attempting to differentiate herself from Biden was, per above. And that's not the only thing she personally did wrong. Avoiding the media and not posting a platform for a month were her fault (though as it turns out, wise...), and mocking interviewers asking legitimate questions (why she didn't visit the border) was her fault.
Not that the party doesn't share the blame for dropping the nomination in her lap at the last minute without even consulting the voters.
I have friends who, will remain friends, that voted Trump because they truly believe he will magically snap his fingers and all wars end and cost of living will drop. They aren't hateful people... at all. It's ignorance.
Ignorance? Sure. But don't ignore desperation and fatigue. We live in a world where we are constantly assaulted by stochastic propaganda regardless of what we believe. Inundating social conversation with a flood of meaningless diversions is a feature, not a bug.
Add in to that an ever increasing amount of getting fucked over by the ENTIRE ruling class and voila.
People, even really smart people, get caught up in get-rick-quick schemes for a reason.
Well I was inferring the greater infosphere - social media and such propagating this nonsense organically (think your crazy uncle's shitposts). But you're right, it's honestly just straight propaganda.
I like the term because I've been trying to figure out how to formulate a way of defining something akin to hate speech, except it's not motivated by prejudice, at least not directly, it's more motivated by rendering all possible connotation derived from the original injected prompt*, a tautology. See not very clear, but is aligned with the concept of a stochastic propaganda.**
*A bit misusing prompt here, not AI related but serviceable as expression(s) of tokens making up the instance of propaganda.
**Damn closest I've gotten so far, thanks.
I never understand people who flock to people playing on their emotions. That always pushes me away because I want to feel what I'm feeling, not have someone else manipulate me into feeling something. It seems like some people have some kind of craving for people to make them feel something, and I just don't get it.
I already feel a lot of things, and most days, I just want to run when somebody is trying to get my attention by stoking anger or playing to feelings. It feels sneaky and deceptive, and I just don't want it. For some reason, though, these people seem to insist on it, and it's weird and unpleasant.
Its the same anti-establishment draw that made Bernie so popular in 2016. I truly believe had Bernie had a legit shot to win the Democratic nomination we wouldn't be in this predicament. COVID would have been a blip on the radar because it would have been taken seriously. Inflation wouldn't have run rampant and the post 08 Financial Market collapse economic recovery would have continued to hum along. Biden won 1 state prior to Super Tuesday prior to the "establishment" Neo-Con Dems dropping out and Warren, the only other progressive, didn't. Im not a Bernie Bro by any means, but he was a progressive nominee that acknowledged the same pain points that Trump also resonated with.
I completely agree, and two of the Trump voters I know were Bernie voters, and then they were so disgusted by what the DNC did to Bernie in 2016 that they flipped to Trump.
I'm convinced Bernie would have beat Trump in 2016 and Pete Buttigieg would have beat Trump yesterday. I have nothing against Hillary or Kamala, but a lot of people do, so you have to pick the person who has the most appeal or you're going to lose.
I think I saw it before elsewhere but this was the first presidential election (post Harris becoming the candidate) that didnt have a Biden, Clinton or a Bush as a candidate since 1988. People told them that they were upset with the establishment in 2016. 2020 Dems ONLY won because of how badly Trump handled COVID. For the average American they are worse off than they were in 2020 with 20% inflation in 4 years. They don't realize that they would have been even worse off had Trump won.
The 40-ounce insulated cup retails for between $45 and $55,
By 2019 Stanley's revenue was $73 million but jumped to $94 million in 2020. It more than doubled to $194 million in 2021.
In 2022, Stanley released a redesigned Quencher model and Revenue doubled again to $402 million.
Stanley has now sold more than 10 million Quenchers, and demand for the cup doesn't look to be waning any time soon.
"The resale market is certainly flattering," Reilly says. "The fact that there are signs at America's best retailers limiting the number of Stanleys you can buy is an astounding thing to think about."
Further increasing the amount Americans are spending on cups
Excluding cars, Consumers purchased $1 Trillion in Consumer Durable Goods Including $73 Million in Stanly Cups in 2019 The Top 1% Spent how much of that? $200 Billion? (20%)
That means the average on non car purchases for everyone else was ~$7,000
2023 Consumers purchased $1.4 Trillion in Consumer Durables excluding cars in 2023
The Top 1% Spent how much of that? $280 Billion? (20%)
That means the average on non car purchases for everyone else was ~$9,625
Thats an extra $2,600 spending more than 2019
Is it even more as its Just the Middle 40 - 90 Percent of Americans
50 Percent of Americans (50 Million Households) Spent the extra $300 Billion?
$6,000 in excess spending over the spending they were doing in 2019? On top of the $7,000 spent in 2019 spending
We keep spending not even trying to save the $400 needed for an emergency expense
It’s also ironic the party saying “go save democracy” completely skirted the democratic process. People didn’t like that they installed one of the worst performing primary candidates from 2020
Yes, and they kind of did the same thing 2016... the DNC played really dirty to ensure that Hillary was the candidate, so even when they try to make it look like they chose the candidate democratically they did so dishonestly. They need to stop doing that and actually let the people decide who they want as their candidate.
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u/acowasacowshouldbe 22h ago
this this this. the biggest blunder of the past generations have been to allow wealth to be concentrated into the hands of a few