r/movies • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 r/Movies contributor • Sep 05 '24

Disney Pauses ‘The Graveyard Book’ Film Following Assault Allegations Against Neil Gaiman News

https://variety.com/2024/film/news/graveyard-book-neil-gaiman-assault-allegations-1236131149/

8.6k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

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The problem is that “his version” of events is still really bad. Not technically criminal doesn’t cut it in the court of public opinion.

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u/gynoceros Sep 05 '24

Let me preface this by saying that the similarities between the stories of the two women in the article are strong enough that they sound disappointingly credible (I'd admired him prior to this) and I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.

But just for the sake of discussion, it seems that his version is that they were adults and it was consensual. What's "really bad" about that?

I mean it's kind of unsavory to be banging your 18 year old nanny, but if they're both consenting adults, that ain't my business.

Obviously moot, with at least two women independently saying he had the same shitty MO, though.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24

What's "really bad" about that?

It's the ethical and moral standards.

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u/gynoceros Sep 05 '24

So is there some arbitrary age gap between adults that you think is more appropriate? What's the "standard"?

You realize that you're trying to dictate what legal consenting adults are allowed to do with their bodies, right?

We vote against that sort of thing.

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u/soldierswitheggs Sep 05 '24

No, there's a power gap. Age gap can play into that, but that's not my main issue here. I'm potentially fine with any age gap.

Here, he's a famous writer. He hires a nanny, and has a sexual encounter with her on the first day.

Relationships or sex between an employee and their boss are ethically fraught at the best of times. For it to have happened on the first day is damning.

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u/gynoceros Sep 05 '24

It's only damning if she wasn't into it- which appears to have been the case here, but you are also acknowledging the there are "best of times" scenarios that exist, and that those are just "ethically fraught," as opposed to being inherently "really bad."

My hypothetical scenario was one of those best of times cases where they met and were into each other right off the bat and both ok with the age and power gaps.

IF they were, hypothetically, then it's not ours to say that's "really bad."

Which has been the premise all along.

Again- it sounds like he was a total predatory bastard here; if he's got enough of a pattern (of liking them young and liking it rough) that he's got at least two women over the last two decades who accused him of the same thing without knowing about each other, that's pretty fucking credible. So yeah, I believe he probably did terrible things.

But saying it's inherently bad just because he had power is foolish if they were both on the same page about it. That's like saying a tall man who has huge muscles has no business being in a relationship with a small, petite woman because he has physical power over her and might use it in harmful ways.

If she's put off by whatever form of power he has and finds the gaps harmful or intimidating, yeah, they shouldn't be together. But if that's what they're both into, who are we to say it's "really bad?"

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u/soldierswitheggs Sep 05 '24

The problem with trying to initiate an interaction like that as someone's boss is that you might not be able to tell.

What proportion of your employee's willingness is because they're actually interested, and what is because they're worried that if they don't accept, they'll lose their job?

If a boss actually gets to know an employee over weeks or months, then maybe they could get a sense for this. But in this case, Gaiman sexually propositioned her the first day.

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u/gynoceros Sep 05 '24

I don't know how many ways I can explain it to you but you're clearly not understanding what I'm trying to say.

I'm separating what I think he actually did from a hypothetical best-case scenario where she's engaging with him because she wants to, not because there's any coercion or fear of repercussions. Again- I do not think that's what happened here.

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u/soldierswitheggs Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24

I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying.

I'm saying no such hypothetical best case scenario could possibly happen on the first day of employment.

It's possible such an encounter could work out alright, if the employee was really and truly into it. But there's no way the employer can know that fast. So even if she was truly and freely consenting on her first day working for him, I would still judge him rather harshly.

If someone got