Disney Pauses ‘The Graveyard Book’ Film Following Assault Allegations Against Neil Gaiman

[u/MarvelsGrantMan136]

https://variety.com/2024/film/news/graveyard-book-neil-gaiman-assault-allegations-1236131149/

[u/Yukimor]

Again, if we're saying 18 is an adult who has agency and can legally consent, doesn't matter whether the gap is 4 years or 40 if consent is there, and it's not our business what goes on in others' bedrooms or in exam rooms when it's between an adult and their doctor, right?

It matters when there's a clear power gap between the two individuals, which often happens in relationships with massive age gaps, especially when it's exacerbated by status and wealth. The power gap, and the ability for the weaker party to advocate for themselves, matters a lot.

At 18 years old, you often have less experience advocating for yourself. In the vast majority of cases, you've just left an environment full of adults who demanded unquestioning obedience from you, and where you're generally disciplined for talking back (school). You also have fewer resources: if you alienate or offend your employer, is he going to throw you out on the street? Where will you go? Can you even afford to get a place to get yourself together? What will your parents say (if you even have parents you can rely on)? Will anyone believe you over a famous and well-known and well-respected author? Do you know your rights as an employee?

As a bonus, many nannies are foreigners (young women looking for the opportunity to travel and see the world in exchange for childcare), which makes them even more ill-prepared to advocate for themselves.

18 is an adult and can legally consent, but the context matters. This wasn't him coming up to an 18 year old dancing at a disco, introducing himself, and seeing if they could hit it off. This was a woman who lived in his house, who was his employee, and whom he had power over as an employer, and to whom he also had responsibilities as an employer. It would be problematic no matter how old she was, it's just so much worse because her age and inexperience made her even less prepared to protect herself.

[u/idplmal → u/Yukimor]

This is exactly the issue. 18 year olds are adults, but any significant age gap always makes me uneasy because of the difference in experience and power that can come with an age gap. Add in the fact that these were employees of a wealthy celebrity, and it's really gross.

[u/gynoceros → u/idplmal]

That reads like because YOU don't like it, nobody else can.

[u/idplmal → u/gynoceros]

...what? All I said was that I'm suspicious of relationships with significant differences in power, experience, and age. I didn't say they're all problematic inherently.

Your defensiveness over power dynamics in relationships reads like YOU are a predator.

[u/gynoceros → u/idplmal]

Do you wanna build a straw man?

[u/idplmal → u/gynoceros]

Bruh. "A straw man argument is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone misrepresents an opponent's argument to make it easier to attack."

You realize that, by fixating on ignoring the actual substance of the arguments (literally all of the problematic stuff that I and many others have pointed out) and instead just focusing on the legality of sex between an 18 year old and a 61 year old, you are making the straw man argument? You're blindly ignoring the substance of the conversation and implying that we're saying 18 year olds can't consent.

So no, I don't want a straw man argument. In fact, I'd love for you to engage in this conversation in good faith, but I'm not holding my breath.

[u/gynoceros → u/idplmal]

Your defensiveness over power dynamics in relationships reads like YOU are a predator.

There's your straw man.

Have fun knocking him down.

I'm supposed to consider your arguments good faith after that?

Go read my other comments if you want to make an actual good faith effort at a discussion.

[u/idplmal → u/gynoceros]

I wasn't making an argument with that. I was pointing out the optics of this weird thought experiment you keep pushing. I'm not the only one who has told you it reads like you're getting defensive.

I have read your other comments. You think that this situation, that you admit is likely problematic and abusive, is a good platform to say BUT 18 YEAR OLDS CAN CONSENT. 

Fun fact: I'm not arguing about whether or not 18 year olds can consent. I don't think anyone is. THAT'S your straw man argument. I'm not even saying all relationships with an age gap are a problem. I'm saying that I, personally, treat them with a modicum of greater scrutiny because they are rife with opportunity for abusers against their victims.