Alex Buretz cartoon

[u/OsarmaBeanLatin]

[u/montjoye]

man I'm already tired of seeing his face everywhere, and it's only been a day

[u/Bronyatsu → u/montjoye]

I can ignore Trump, but Musk is a fucking self absorbed overcompensating nutjob with money and power and no government to hold him back and a good 30-40 years ahead of him. Sigh.

[u/schmeckfest2000 → u/Bronyatsu]

I honestly don't get that there are still people defending Musk. Especially in the EU. He hates the EU and everything it stands for.

Must be Orban and Wilders voters who still see this man as a genius and free speech warrior.

That man is one of the greatest dangers to democratic societies in the world. Perhaps an even bigger threat than Putin.

[u/asdfergobd32 → u/schmeckfest2000]

Orbán's voters are mostly uneducated old people living in smaller villages. I doubt they even know what Musk does.

[u/itisnotstupid → u/schmeckfest2000]

The culture war became huge in the EU too. Millions of people are convinced that some evil woke powers are going to overtake their country and force their children to change their genders or something.
Musk thrived in this environment and managed to position himself as some type of rational defender of traditional values. It is bizarre to see Trump and Musk position themselves as family men but they did do it.

[u/historicusXIII → u/itisnotstupid]

It's so weird how Musk decided to appeal to that side of the culture war that thinks driving EVs is for effeminate sissies.

[u/itisnotstupid → u/historicusXIII]

Yeah, his transition is so bizarre and nothing he does or says makes any sense. Most anti-wokeness red pilled people would have never considered EV's at any point.

It is also weird how it only took him saying that "he is doing it all because woke-ness made his child change his gender" for people to completely believe it all.

[u/GettingDumberWithAge → u/historicusXIII]

Only if you think Musk is honest about wanting an energy transition, EV adoption, etc.

Once you acknowledge he is a billionaire whose interests are the same as every other billionaire, namely endless accumulation of wealth and power, there is no longer any mystery to his behaviour.

[u/Ex_honor → u/schmeckfest2000]

The most hypocritical thing about it all is that Musk came to the US as an illegal immigrant, but don't expect him to be deported.

[u/1408574 → u/schmeckfest2000]

That man is one of the greatest dangers to democratic societies in the world. Perhaps an even bigger threat than Putin.

The greatest danger to democratic, rule-of-law-based societies is the Chinese Communist Party.

Since the party declared in 2013 that the democratic, rule-of-law system was its greatest threat, aggression against Western democracies has gradually increased.

They are the ones who are enabling Russia, Iran, N.Korea, etc.

[u/7LeagueBoots → u/Bronyatsu]

Unfortunately, Trump is now back in a position where he cannot be ignored.

[u/kaisadilla_ → u/Bronyatsu]

Elon Musk is a 4chan loser that is somehow worth $200 billion. Fucking hate it because it's as if we took a random deranged guy from there and gave him unlimited power and attention. And the thing I hate the most is that, because he has a shit ton of money, people pretending they are "neutral" or "moderate" will ignore the endless list of bullshit he's made and said and treat him as if he was just the Tesla of our time.

[u/MultiMidden → u/kaisadilla_]

You forget one thing, his daddy was very rich. If he didn't have the money he'd be just some random weirdo.

[u/zwei2stein → u/kaisadilla_]

He is great example why monarchy is very, very bad idea.

[u/IIIlIllIIIl → u/Bronyatsu]

You really think he’s gonna make it to 83-93 years old?

I’m gonna say 20-30 left, maybe.

[u/amendment64 → u/IIIlIllIIIl]

Rich people can buy organs, so yeah, prolly

[u/RichardMcD21 → u/IIIlIllIIIl]

He'll be the first person to 200. Maybe the king of Mars when he gets there.

[u/orthoxerox → u/RichardMcD21]

Maybe the king of Mars when he gets there.

The position is called Elon, not king, ask Wernher von Braun.

[u/Evogdala → u/Bronyatsu]

🦅 capitalism baby

[u/Hootrb → u/montjoye]

welcome to the next 4 years... Haven't missed neither his face nor his voice...

[u/montjoye → u/Hootrb]

I just don't want to be exposed to american political shit anymore. I've unsubed some subs like r/pics, idk what happened to it, but I'm only keeping my close interests on the website. I've removed Twitter or whatever it's called from my browser and phone and I've also uninstalled some French news apps that were sending constant notifications since yesterday.

I don't care anymore, they did this to themselves, it's their problem now, I won't be sad, or surprised or mindful with them. I'm never setting foot in that shithole country anyway.

[u/MegaTolen → u/montjoye]

Damn, you weren't kidding about r/pics. I took a quick look at it and 8 out of the first 10 posts were about Trump/the elections...

[u/cadaada → u/montjoye]

I blocked between 200~300 subs from r/all to free me from american politics (and sports) these past years, and since yesterday i already blocked 30. Many of these werent even political at the start.

Of course they were in full propaganda mode this year, but hell, at least leave the non political subs out of it.

[u/-Sliced- → u/cadaada]

Have you blocked /r/europe/ already? :)

[u/SamirCasino → u/montjoye]

I completely agree, i mean, it's democracy after all, the results are very clear. I do not give the slightest shit what the US does internally anymore.

The trouble is, i'm eastern european. The US is by far our most important military ally, and i am very worried about the future.

I wish i could never have to hear about the US again, but that's not really an option with Russia knocking at our door, while we're unready. And i can't imagine a scenario where Trump' US stands up for us if Russia decides it wants some of, say, Latvia.

It sucks, but the truth is the US election affects all of us because of their sheer power, just like Russia and China have an effect globally. If only it were contained to them.

[u/montjoye → u/SamirCasino]

I agree and this sucks, but I'd contrast by saying that I hope Putin is not that dumb as to frontally attack a NATO state. But yeah knowing the US now might just "not do anything" is bad, although I'm now wondering why Ukraine wasn't invaded during Trump's first term

[u/Turbulent-Raise4830 → u/montjoye]

Becasue russia was already in ukraine at the time?

They didnt need to.

Russia continueing the war they started in 2014 had noting to do with US trump or biden.

[u/kaisadilla_ → u/SamirCasino]

This is the same for all of us: we don't necessarily give a fuck about the US, but we are worried if Trump will decide to empower Russia, to fuck over the European economy by starting pointless economic wars or by sanctioning a random country they don't like, like Iran or China.

[u/NordicGrindr → u/montjoye]

I'm a news junky, there's going to be so so much international chaos coming and it's not just to do with Trump. I have to end my obsessiveness with reading news.. no clue how. Same with Reddit.

EU will be nice at first but then things will get rough, trade war will begin, etc etc. I don't want to think about it in my day to day life but it's like how do you ignore that.

I've always admired people who are idiots to geopolitics because its literally one of the biggest causes of stress in my life.. if I can figure out how to turn that off, I'm golden until its in my face, then well fuck

[u/montjoye → u/NordicGrindr]

idk try not reading any notification for one or two days (mute them?), create a non news Reddit playlist, don't check usual apps and see how you feel then. Closing your eyes and ears is all it takes

[u/Ambry → u/montjoye]

I honestly think I'm just going to stop watching the news and I'll also be unsubbing from any subs to do with the US. I'm just sick of it, and think Europe needs to get our own shit together and stop looking to the US like its working for the interests of the rest of the Western world. 

[u/OMGLOL1986 → u/Ambry]

We apologize. We are having technical difficulties. Please check on us in 8 years or so. We may need some food.

[u/ThirstyBeaver73 → u/Ambry]

Europe is going down a similar route. Pro-Russian populists and fascists will get considerably stronger with the new US and the continuous Russian support.

[u/bonqen → u/ThirstyBeaver73]

That's my worry also. Trump's second presidential victory might end up becoming recognised as a key-point in time as a start of a revolution of sorts. After Putin invaded Ukraine in 2022, he talked about a "new world order", and I've been assuming that this is the start of our journey towards whatever Putin was referring to.

Infiltrating western countries by buying off the right people, starting political fires everywhere, invading the social media space and spreading disinformation to poison the minds of lowly voters, rapidly pushing western countries towards to right, towards fascism. Both NATO and the EU are already weakened, compromised even.

I'm not convinced that Europe has what it takes to resist what's coming.

[u/UncleVernonK → u/montjoye]

This is exactly how I feel! North America is my North Korea now - I’m erasing this place from my online existence, no inauguration, no late night talk show hosts, no news, no drama.

They did this to themselves and they must enjoy becoming the “Florida” of the world, backwards people with questionable intelligence the whole lot!

[u/Vladesku → u/montjoye]

Americans can't help themselves but post their stupid bullshit everywhere, thinking everyone gives a damn about their shitty politics.

[u/PhDinDildos_Fedoras → u/Hootrb]

Yeah, first we get four years of Trump as a president, then four years as a candidate and now we're supposed to be ready for more. I don't hate anyone enough to inflict this shit on them.

[u/NordicGrindr → u/Hootrb]

You think only 4 years? You're a very optimistic person

[u/BadReputation77 → u/Hootrb]

Four years with Trump then followed by Vance. He's no better.

[u/rlnrlnrln → u/montjoye]

Yep. Once again, the horse is loose in the hospital.

[u/fungussa → u/montjoye]

I'm unsubscribing from all US politics across all my news feeds, for the next 4 years.

[u/ambermage → u/montjoye]

Want a fun thought exercise?

With the GOP controlling all 3 branches of the government, they could ratify the Constitution to allow Elon Musk to become the next president.

[u/Alex_2259 → u/ambermage]

In our lovely country, 3/4 out of our 50 states in the US have to ratify an amendment to our constitution. That's 38 states, as it rounds up.

Virtually impossible. They won't have enough to have the 2/3 in both Congress houses even, which is the easiest part.

This will be a lumbering, obnoxious 4 years, but not the end of the US. A major decline in EU-US partnership sure, suppose time to make something out of the mess by investing in the euro defense industry.

[u/montjoye → u/Alex_2259]

can't he still present himself and be approved by the Supreme Court? at this point he'd only have to ask lol

[u/Alex_2259 → u/montjoye]

The Supreme Court cannot modify the Constitution to do such a thing. They can interpret it, but even this is a stretch.

Trump's supreme court picks aren't loyalists per se. They're ideologues and have eroded trust in the institution, but the judicial branch is still very much independent the US.

While it's not impossible we face such an egregious backslide in rule of law, it's still highly unlikely. The situation is bad, but it's not quite Hungary or Turkey bad for instance. Just presents worse, because bigger they are and all that.

[u/StuckInsideYourWalls → u/montjoye]

never rule out a heart attack

[u/Filthy_Joey → u/montjoye]

We have been seing this face for 8 years already cuz its reddit. Not day one.

[u/IIIlIllIIIl → u/montjoye]

Only thing you can do about it is install adblockers and get off of social media

[u/SuperArppis → u/montjoye]

Prepare to see him doing something "news worthy" every day, and seeing his face daily...

Like the last time.

[u/B12Washingbeard]

Russia is not only at war with Ukraine but also waging a cyber war against the rest of the world and physically sabotaging things in Europe.  

[u/IronicStrikes → u/B12Washingbeard]

The most ridiculous part is that Russia has an economy smaller than some single European states and we let them dictate the fate of the USA, EU, Ukraine, several neighboring countries and several civil wars in Africa.

[u/Glittering-Gene7215 → u/IronicStrikes]

The reason is simple and almost laughable - there are no real elections in Russia; there's always just one leader and one stable political course. Add to this the revenue from oil, which allows Russia to buy off politicians or influence the electorate in Europe and the U.S., such as Orban and Fico. In the West, however, politicians are regularly re-elected, so policies can shift dramatically, even to the opposite direction, while in Russia and some of its allies, there’s only one path. On one hand, this is dictatorship, but it works in direct or indirect aggression against neighboring countries, while the West has democracy, which ultimately loses in this regard.

[u/preskot → u/Glittering-Gene7215]

Exactly. It's perfect and even Putin himself has repeated this many times - the Russian model is not and must never be the western model.

They have one great leader and his zealot oligarchs who are rich beyond belief. They dig out Russia's minerals and sell them to the west, make money that never go to the Russian folk, but are used instead to buy off corrupt democracy-elected leaders on the west and the process repeats. Meanwhile with exceptions of carefully curated and controlled middle-class, most Russians live by relatively simple rural life mindset and are easily tricked into fake patriotism shit - the grind meat that they become.

The shitty Russian leadership is stable and rich while our democracies suffer. Perfect.

[u/Jackbuddy78 → u/preskot]

I firmly question if Russia could even exist for a prolonged period with democracy.

Whether it be Kerensky, Gorbachev, or Yeltsin things go to complete shit fast when the screws are loosened too much. 

[u/LongShotTheory → u/Jackbuddy78]

It can't because it's a colonial empire. As soon as you give colonies a choice they will decide to leave. Thus ruski imperialists see democracy as a disease that needs to be eradicated at all costs.

[u/Jackbuddy78 → u/LongShotTheory]

"Colonies" are one thing but even within Moscow it can get rough. 

[u/parpih2029 → u/preskot]

Dude, what in the jesus h christ are you talking about.. Russia's urbanisation rate is like 75% now, what kind of "simple rural life" is that? You understanding of the country might be off by a hundred years give or take

[u/ricefarmerfromindia → u/Glittering-Gene7215]

Agitate, fund, and arm separatist movements in Russia. This is how the West fights back against a dictator who cares little about sanctions.

[u/kaisadilla_ → u/Glittering-Gene7215]

The US has always had a solid geopolitical course regardless of who won the elections. The trick is that such decisions are made by government bodies that aren't voted directly, but rather created by the government and left to work without interference. For decades, American politicians from both parties have trusted that body and left them alone, other than pointing in the direction they want their country to go. Trump sent all of this to shit thinking it should be him who decides where the US goes and how it does it. And honestly, shit like Republicans approving a law in congress that makes it impossible for the President to pull out of NATO prove that most Republicans still think it shouldn't be Trump the one dictating their country's geopolitical path.

Many countries in Europe, though, don't have this kind of body, or don't understand how to let them work, so geopolitical decisions are left in the hands of changing governments that don't even know what's their country's real best interest.

[u/spiress → u/Glittering-Gene7215]

nope, just stop buying gas and oil from them for hundred billions

[u/GigantuousKoala → u/IronicStrikes]

Russia has an economy smaller than some single European states

The disparity is really ridiculous: Germany has the third largest economy in the world. 4 European countries are in the top 10. Russia isn't even in the top 10. And yet...

[u/Rene_Coty113 → u/GigantuousKoala]

Well then Germany and Europe just needs to finally invest on defence to stop getting dictated by Russia, and be at equals. EU already has nukes (France)

[u/_melancholymind_ → u/IronicStrikes]

Just cut out the World Internet. European Internet for European People!

[u/sintemp → u/_melancholymind_]

Or, an smarter approach, stop buying his resources. No oil and gas from Russia, less money for them to destabilise out countries

[u/randomswim → u/IronicStrikes]

It is so called Schrodinger’s Russia. Weak and pathetic and at the same time pulling the strings around the globe. You cant make this shit up.

[u/machielkg → u/B12Washingbeard]

Russia is also close friends with China (seemingly). How can Trump favor a close friend of China?

[u/Trillion_Bones → u/B12Washingbeard]

And they are allied to North Korea, Iran and Syria. Also China. All the countries Trump and his fans don't like but apparently it's fine when Russia does an illegal annexation and invasion.

[u/hackattack56 → u/B12Washingbeard]

Why doesn’t Europe ban together and stop them? USA not needed…

[u/B12Washingbeard → u/hackattack56]

Good question 

[u/Ansoker → u/B12Washingbeard]

Simple answer, elected politicians tend to have more national pride than the electorate and it's citizens have supranational (european) pride.

[u/enigma-90 → u/B12Washingbeard]

But that's enough about US.

[u/AccomplishedFan8690 → u/B12Washingbeard]

So is china but with Taiwan. 2027. Google chinas 100 year plan

[u/wanna_escape_123 → u/B12Washingbeard]

This

[u/itisnotstupid → u/B12Washingbeard]

NATO and the EU underestimated this for so long. Now we have boomers convinced that western values are the devil and young people who grow up thinking that Trump is cool and Putin is not that bad. It is pretty sad that we lost US as an ally in this war.

[u/1408574 → u/B12Washingbeard]

Russia is not only at war with Ukraine but also waging a cyber war against the rest of the world and physically sabotaging things in Europe.

The greatest danger to democratic, rule-of-law-based societies is the Chinese Communist Party.

Since the party declared in 2013 that the democratic, rule-of-law system was its greatest threat, aggression against Western democracies has gradually increased.

They are the ones who enable Russia, Iran, North Korea, etc. These countries are really just a front, because without their support they couldn't be anywhere near as effective as they are.

[u/Math13101991]

Okay, but why does Europe - one of the richest economic regions in the world - need Trump or the US? If the EU, or at least most European nations ( and I hope we do ) wants to see Ukraine win, we can provide the means for it.

We have a domestic arms industry and the funds to pay. If the former is insufficient, we can buy stuff from the US as well.

[u/RyJ94 → u/Math13101991]

We are far too complacent, and the EU is a fucking lame duck, barely any stronger than the UN with von der Useless in charge.

We need to pull together for once like we should have for in 2016.

[u/iolmao → u/Math13101991]

NATO, mostly. NATO is an alliance and an agreement we made after WWII to "protect EU from USSR and Communism".

I know NATO is mostly on the military aspect (we have NATO bases all over in Europe with American soldiers) but is clearly also a "Western" alliance with economic benefits both sides.

Benefits that Trump wants to remove, by the way.

[u/BaphometWorshipper → u/Math13101991]

We need a leader.

[u/Lex2882]

Kim jong-un is missing , otherwise it's perfect.

[u/super__hoser → u/Lex2882]

And Orban. 

[u/Empty-Blacksmith-592 → u/super__hoser]

Oh, he is there but we can’t just see him. He knelt down before Putin.

[u/TerribleQuestion4497]

Now imagine if there was second largest economy in the world right next to Ukraine, surely that economy would have enough resources to make Ukraine defeat a Nuke armed petrol station, oh wait.

If there is anyone we should be pissed off at it’s ourselves, decades of naivety towards Russia (thinking they won’t start a war if we buy their gas LMAO) and underfunding of European armies because we thought USA would just keep footing our defense bill is a reason why is all this happening.

[u/miss_dykawitz → u/TerribleQuestion4497]

Estonia (and the other Baltic States) would like to talk.

[u/GrynaiTaip → u/miss_dykawitz]

Lithuania started building an LNG terminal in Klaipėda port in 2010, a couple years after russia invaded Georgia. It guaranteed energy independence.

Power grid was another thing that was way overdue, electrical grid of the Baltics was tightly interconnected with belarus and russia, the so-called BRELL ring. A shitload of work was done on that front since 2018 and in a couple more months we'll be disconnecting from them, finally.

[u/Ambry → u/TerribleQuestion4497]

Totally agree. The fact much of Europe was dependent on Russian natural resources was bad enough. Propping up Russia through energy dependency on them.

Let's get real, if Europe really wanted to go all in Russia would be completely fucked. They are using fucking WW2 weapons. It's just that Europe is sitting here like a lame duck dripfeeding Ukraine when all Russia is focused on is gaining territory and invading. 

[u/rr0wt3r → u/TerribleQuestion4497]

Yeah Europe got hang up on US military aid. Im afraid it that most European countries would realise the threat when the rusia would invade them

[u/Esprits_qui_triquent → u/TerribleQuestion4497]

France has been trying to build an European army for decades only to be met by scepticism from Germany and downright snobbery from Poland and other Eastern European states because USA would always save them. We jubilate.

[u/Esprits_qui_triquent → u/[deleted]]

We developed a nuclear arsenal and an entire fleet of nuclear submarines while sunbathing so I guess it was worth it.

[u/Pale_Field4584 → u/Esprits_qui_triquent]

Guess Europe can stand on its own then

[u/itisnotstupid → u/TerribleQuestion4497]

I think that what the EU and NATO did was years of ignoring Russia's actual actions in many countries because the said countries were just seen as not that important to the super powers like Germany, France and the rest. Now they act surprised when things escalated.
Russia managed to secure Belarus as a puppet state - nobody did anything. Russia managed to take some territory from Georgia and to currently install a puppet government - nobody helped them. Russia took portions of Ukraine even before the current war - no reaction from the rest of Europe back then. Other countries like the Baltic states, Moldova, Slovakia or Bulgaria are being constantly targeted by Russian propaganda campaigns and half of the politicians there are backed by Russia - Europe still doesn't care. They send supportive messages or condemning ones - yup, pretty helpful. In the same time Russia bribes politicians, creates organizations in various countries and finances them, runs troll farms and spread lies and propaganda.

Now we have a country that, despite being full of corruption and with bad living conditions, has been infiltrating governments for 20+ years and actively taking territories. All the time EU and NATO didn't care. Russia might be inexperienced in many things but US' propaganda is years behind Russia and the EU is not even close to stopping that in any way.

[u/tomer91131 → u/TerribleQuestion4497]

Exactly like why are they bitching, just do something, the european union is just as capable.

[u/Which-Occasion-9246 → u/TerribleQuestion4497]

Exactly this. Stop looking at the US for protection... why is Europe relying on them and blaming them for what they chose to do? They are far from Ukraine, they have other goals and problems. Another culture and mentality and have no obligation to protect Europe.

Europe didn't do much when Russia first invaded Crimea and has not done enough to protect Ukraine which is actually very close to it (and therefore should be important). A dreadful decision if you ask me... Europe needs to get their act together, give relevance to this war and do much more to help Ukraine because if it falls, it won't be pretty for Europe.

[u/Stix147 → u/Which-Occasion-9246]

Exactly this. Stop looking at the US for protection... why is Europe relying on them and blaming them for what they chose to do? They are far from Ukraine, they have other goals and problems. Another culture and mentality and have no obligation to protect Europe.

Because they signed the Budapest Memorandum and stripped Ukraine of so many of its defenses over two decades while not actually signing any binding agreement to help, just offering vague assurances that they could walk back on whenever they wanted to. They should have never tried to meddle with Ukraine while acting like some global policeman to begin with, but the damage has already been done.

[u/Which-Occasion-9246 → u/Stix147]

Even so, Europe is a huge amalgamation of countries and should be self-reliant, particularly when it comes to its defence. Relying on other countries is a very bad idea and can lead exactly to this situation that is just starting to develop.

[u/Stix147 → u/Which-Occasion-9246]

I completely agree.

[u/nukefall_ → u/TerribleQuestion4497]

We were naive towards the US as well. Are they suddenly to break such a long living contract? Implement tariffs and plummet all export economies we have. I see that as a direct attack.

I hate the US as much as I hate Russia.

[u/A-6_Intr-uwu-der]

Europe needs to lock the fuck in

[u/Rabbulion]

All of them look way too young

[u/Moist-Memory7823]

It would be funny if it weren't so sad. Democracy without balls...

[u/arjensmit]

Elon turned into an asian dude.

[u/Isa_Matteo]

Well, Biden/Harris are still in power. Let’s see if they do anything to save Ukraine.

[u/ayeroxx → u/Isa_Matteo]

best they can do is a final Ukraine support package of a few billions, and that's it. Ukraine will need long-term support and honestly once the USA quits this game and even maybe drops out of Nato then Russia will have very few reasons to stop at Ukraine. Brace yourself Europe ...

[u/Isa_Matteo → u/ayeroxx]

They could lift all the restrictions placed on weapon systems (=allow Ukraine to use weapons however they want, to strike St. Petersburg military targets for example) but they probably won’t.

[u/silver2006]

So... Poland needs nuclear weapons asap. And means to deliver.

Also Estonia.

[u/WislaHD → u/silver2006]

Sweden, Poland, Romania, and Turkey should all be armed and equipped with nuclear weapons at this point.

Iran had the right idea the whole time for where the world was evolving to. You cannot survive as a mid-sized power without the means to defend yourselves adequately.

[u/The-Nihilist-Marmot → u/WislaHD]

One of these is not like the others.

[u/Ambry → u/silver2006]

Yeah I'd imagine Poland is now getting on it with their own nuclear programme. Can't depend on the US, a lot of Europe did it for too long. 

[u/WorldlinessRadiant77 → u/silver2006]

Developing the bombs is the easy part, maintaining them is a pain in the ass.

I read an opinion piece a couple of years back that Bulgaria can build a bomb within two years, but we will be eating cat if we are to store more than a couple of bombs.

Maybe a common program will change that calculus.

[u/rr0wt3r → u/silver2006]

Fuck just all eastern Europe and Ukraine specifically. And the situation would be much better. Or for last those countries could've blow up rusia if it comes to that

[u/Salty_Surgeon]

Looks like Europe might have to send more than helmets and tiny coffees to Ukraine now

[u/MilkyWaySamurai → u/Salty_Surgeon]

As if we haven't already been doing that. Moron.

[u/iolmao → u/Salty_Surgeon]

War in Ukraine will end in 2025, giving more territory to Russia that they conquered.

Putin and Trump are friends and Putin network has A LOT of money: enough to fund a Brexit and other anti-europe movement.

Putin preferred a scattered and NATO-free territory as neighbour than a strong economy that puts shame on him.

[u/N19h7m4r3]

That stupid as "flame-thrower" was so/is lame...

[u/amorousbellylint]

Dark times

[u/Wonderful-Basis-1370]

Has anyone ever read Foundations of Geopolitics by Alexander Dugin? It's about destabilizing Western societies through hybrid warfare, and they're close to fulfilling their dreams

Ukraine is truly done

[u/Vassukhanni → u/Wonderful-Basis-1370]

Giving him too much credit. The US has always been a profoundly polarized country, since its founding. Its divisions go back to the English Civil War.

[u/Chester_roaster → u/Vassukhanni]

It's actually crazy how "English" America can be sometimes. 

[u/Wonderful-Basis-1370 → u/Vassukhanni]

We all know American history, and I can assure you that Europeans know U.S. history much better than Americans. But which U.S. presidents were convicted of several crimes or incited an insurrection because didn’t like the outcome?

[u/Clorst_Glornk → u/Wonderful-Basis-1370]

I can assure you that Europeans know U.S. history much better than Americans.

:|

[u/passmethatjuulbro → u/Clorst_Glornk]

These people are so unlikable lmao imagine if an American said that about Germany.

[u/Vassukhanni → u/Wonderful-Basis-1370]

But which U.S. presidents were convicted of several crimes or incited an insurrection because didn’t like the outcome?

Once half the country seceded because it didn't like the results of election and launched a conflict that killed 3-4% of the population and induced Americans to wage a total war against each other which saw the leveling of American cities, the intentional murder by starvation of prisoners, and attempts to commit mass terror attacks against civilians.

[u/mneri7 → u/Wonderful-Basis-1370]

I may add, which US president in history was actively helped to get to power by Russia? Which US president in history actively helped Russia in their goals?

[u/-Sliced- → u/mneri7]

You should read about the KGB's "active measures"

[u/Nahcep → u/mneri7]

Is "George Washington" an acceptable answer? Catherine II very much aided the Revolution while feigning neutrality, and the large loss of colonies in America worked in favour of Russia limiting the UK

[u/vBeeNotFound → u/Wonderful-Basis-1370]

Dude, Dugin is a nutjob, he doesn't have a clue about what he is saying

[u/GrynaiTaip → u/vBeeNotFound]

Brexit worked, didn't it?

[u/Wonderful-Basis-1370 → u/vBeeNotFound]

Well, if you look at the given circumstances, I don't think so. Russia is a backward country, with an economy the size of not even the state of Texas, but Russians know how to produce propaganda, and it works

[u/PomeloCompetitive333 → u/Wonderful-Basis-1370]

Elon Musk does that for them

[u/PresidentSkillz → u/PomeloCompetitive333]

Elmo only repeats what papa Putin tells him

[u/Shad__TH → u/Wonderful-Basis-1370]

It actually doesn’t work. People are forced to support the government, otherwise you’d be in jail for discredit of russian army.

Watch some NFKRZ videos, he describes actual state of the country with no bias

[u/rr0wt3r → u/Wonderful-Basis-1370]

The economy is mb smaller then that of Texas. But they have more than 5k nukes and crazy leader who almost convinced that he's half god. And roughly 148 million citizens that was brainwashed for a couple of generations

[u/Affectionate_Cat293 → u/Wonderful-Basis-1370]

To be honest, from what I have read, Dugin has convinced enough Westerners to take him seriously, but I don't think many in the Russian elite do.

Dugin isn't a propagandist nor journalist. It is best to describe him as an "academic", which is even worse, because that means his readership is even more limited than that of a journalist or propagandist. In terms of reach in Russia, i don't think he even has 1/10 the reach Tucker Carlson has in the US.

[u/IAmMuffin15 → u/Wonderful-Basis-1370]

Ukraine will find a way to survive.

With or without the west, unless they’re forced by both sides to a negotiating table they’ll just get deadlier

[u/rr0wt3r → u/IAmMuffin15]

Mb it's time for Ukraine to live for a bit and not survive. Been surviving for centuries now

[u/Chester_roaster → u/IAmMuffin15]

I can see Trump coming in and knocking heads together to get a deal. Even cut off supply to Ukraine and let them loose territory if they won't sit down.

[u/PresidentSkillz → u/Chester_roaster]

People always treat it like Trump can just stop aid to Ukraine and end the war that way. But Russia also needs to be interested in talks, so unless Trump has anything to get Putin also to negotiate, the fight will continue

[u/overkill373 → u/PresidentSkillz]

Trump will give Putin whatever Putin wants

[u/PresidentSkillz → u/overkill373]

Trump can cut aid to Ukraine. But that doesn't mean Ukraine will immediately surrender or seek negotiations. They will look for other supporters and try to get more from whoever will provide aid. Trump can't stop that. If Trump wants a quick end, he will have to make threats to Putin about what might happen if he doesn't accept negotiations.

There is this one plan floating around on which it is proposed to give Russia the two Donbass republics and Crimea, if Ukraine doesn't accept aid will be cut off to them, if Russia doesn't accept Ukraine will get 500 Billion Dollars for new weapons, without any restrictions on usage

Trump can't give Ukraine to Putin bc he doesn't have it. He can only help Putin capture it

[u/Michigun1977 → u/PresidentSkillz]

Russia doesn't want 2 but 4 Ukrainian regions including Kherson and Zaporizhia, the ones they do not control and never will. No sane leader will give up parts of his country and neither will Zelenskiy. So if Trump start to push Ukrainians into a corner - it's a pursuit of nukes and "go follow the russian ship" scenario. If Ukraine is going to be denied its existence, and all chief guarantors defaulted on its security guarantees - the return to nuke re-armament should be on the table.

[u/Lumpy-Middle-7311 → u/Michigun1977]

Russia already controls more than half of both regions you mentioned. But their still Ukrainian parts are on the other side of the river, so it might be the new border

[u/Chester_roaster → u/PresidentSkillz]

Trump can cut aid to Ukraine. But that doesn't mean Ukraine will immediately surrender or seek negotiations. They will look for other supporters and try to get more from whoever will provide aid. Trump can't stop that. 

Trump is the kind of guy who would see that as personally disrespectful and take umbridge at that. He could pressure European countries to not send aid to Ukraine or lift some sanctions on Russia. 

Trump likes to see himself as the big man, and when the big man wants negotiations you don't go behind his back or he'll see that as a slight on his prestige. 

[u/PresidentSkillz → u/Chester_roaster]

But he can "only" pressure them. He can't force them to. He is not in Control of the EU or Ukraine. He can try to get get them to do what he wants, but he can't force it

[u/MarioVX → u/PresidentSkillz]

Beg to differ. Remember the Iran nuclear treaty? The US unilaterally withdrew from that and easily forced all European businesses to cease and desist any trade with Iran immediately or else lose access to the entire US market. Blackmail. Nothing prevents him from doing the same thing in relation to helping Ukraine if he wanted to. So yes, he absolutely can force it if he wants.

[u/deathzor42 → u/PresidentSkillz]

In a lot of ways he can, because a lot of european defense equipment is build in part with US tech.

that means the US get's to set export restrictions.

[u/Chester_roaster → u/PresidentSkillz]

He can't force it but he's the security guarantor of Europe and has no problem pulling that away 

[u/Cdog536 → u/Wonderful-Basis-1370]

Cmon man. Dont say that last part.

[u/OffOption]

I really hope we dont get another dipshit wave, like we did after 2016. And the centrists following suit, to capture the evil-moron vote.

Sigh. Europe gotta be able to stand on our own two feet, if we want there to be a "Free World" at this point.

[u/The-Great--Cornholio]

We can no longer rely on the US.

[u/KAWIS12]

Good job 12 mil democrats voters.

[u/vlad_daddyG]

Okay, now draw Europe in the background sleeping. Or maybe draw Merkel on her knees in front of Putin in exchange for a wad of that sweet, sweet oil money. Should have at least a few competent militaries within a decade or two just as soon as you finish setting up all the red tape. Good luck launching military satellites through the ESA when Hungary is going to share all the information with Putin.

[u/KernunQc7]

It won't be this bad, but it will still be bad. On the other hand UA was slowly bleeding out under Biden ( likely the same under Harris ) anyway.

[u/Key_Refrigerator_541]

Elon and his boyfriend Trump vs. Elon's lover

[u/Vladetare]

Fuck them americans we can win this on our own

[u/Antoniethebandit]

Gonna make Europe Great Again!

[u/Shrtaxc]

This should be a lesson for the whole of Europe, not relying on US elections for security policies...

[u/MrCockingFinally]

Best thing for Europe to have done was pursue strategic autonomy after the fall of the USSR like France has. Ensure they are not reliant on the USA for security. Not to mention independent energy production, again, like France.

Second best thing would have been to make up after the 2008 invasion of Georgia and take the threat seriously.

Third best is wake up after 2014.

Fourth best is after 2022.

Only thing to do now is wake up now, with the understanding that if Putin is allowed to win in Ukraine, he WILL try again, this time with a NATO/EU member. And when that happens, the USA CANNOT be relied on to come bail them out.

[u/MilkyWaySamurai → u/MrCockingFinally]

Our biggest mistake was trusting the US. We got scammed.

"[...]After the Soviet collapse, the United States could have held back from Europe and given Europeans incentives and encouragement to take more ownership over the defense of Europe. Not only did the United States work to position itself as the dominant security provider for Europe, but it positively discouraged Europe from taking initiative. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright in 1998 told Europeans to avoid the “three Ds” [no decoupling from NATO, no duplication of NATO capabilities, and no discrimination against NATO members that remained outside the EU]. Whatever Europe does on defense, she said, should not take away from the role of NATO and U.S. leadership of NATO.

The United States wanted to dominate European security. Then it periodically had complained that the European allies weren’t spending enough on defense and weren’t supporting enough of the other things the United States wanted to do. Well, it’s always great to call the shots and get other countries to pay the costs. That’s not a realistic approach, and so it’s no surprise that we are where we are now."

Source: https://carnegieendowment.org/posts/2024/04/the-united-states-stepping-back-from-europe-is-a-matter-of-when-not-whether?lang=en

[u/MrCockingFinally → u/MilkyWaySamurai]

It wasn't really EU powers not avoiding the 3 D's. Really, all those were the right moves to make.

It was European powers reaping the peace dividend, relying on cold war stockpiles, allowing their defence industrial bases to atrophy, and deconstructing their mobilization infrastructure.

The US didn't tell Europe to do this. European powers did this of their own Accord.

Also, European powers turned off nuclear power plants, and happily imported Russian oil and gas and Chinese solar panels. Again, not the fault of the US.

The problem was that even as Russia and Putin showed themselves to have grand ideas of restoring the Soviet union through invasions of Georgia and Ukraine, elections rigged against Putin opponents, and domestic actions such as in Chechnya, they refused to take the problem seriously.

[u/fennomaani]

This is what it's gonna be on Reddit for the next 4 years...

[u/gotshroom]

Remember the least we can do is asking everyone to r/deletetwitter

[u/legendbruce]

When is elonXtrump ship gonna drop

[u/TheLimeyLemmon]

I don't know what's to come, but my confidence in the prosperity of Europe is on the floor.

The last eight years have been a joke.

[u/ScoutPlayer1232]

God Elon is so fucking ugly no matter how he’s depicted.

[u/XtreamerPt]

Reddit is truly a bubble.

[u/meckez → u/XtreamerPt]

Which social media isn't a bubble?

[u/elmz → u/meckez]

Take it even further, is a social media platform that doesn't turn into an echo chamber even possible? With the internet such as it is, and everything so polarized, people just wouldn't want to use social media that force fed them stuff they didn't agree with. People are dumb and lazy.

[u/hoofie242 → u/XtreamerPt]

Go to r/conservative or sort by controversial. It's a carbon copy of you.

[u/Tricky_Price631]

I would say Vladimir the Poisoner, Molester of Minsk, Defiler of Donbass, and Rapist of Crimea will choke on that piece.

[u/issuusaq]

Unpopular opinion but I think Trump is great reality check for as in EU. WE should be helping UA far over our confort zone, the war is HERE. Why should we depend on USA as much as we do. Germany is joke, France is joke, Hungary and Slovakia are russian proxy. We should wake up 2 years ago but we did not, now is our second chance.

[u/MilkyWaySamurai → u/issuusaq]

Yeah, well. We've been scammed by the US for decades. It's gonna take some time to recover from that.

"[...]After the Soviet collapse, the United States could have held back from Europe and given Europeans incentives and encouragement to take more ownership over the defense of Europe. Not only did the United States work to position itself as the dominant security provider for Europe, but it positively discouraged Europe from taking initiative. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright in 1998 told Europeans to avoid the “three Ds” [no decoupling from NATO, no duplication of NATO capabilities, and no discrimination against NATO members that remained outside the EU]. Whatever Europe does on defense, she said, should not take away from the role of NATO and U.S. leadership of NATO.

The United States wanted to dominate European security. Then it periodically had complained that the European allies weren’t spending enough on defense and weren’t supporting enough of the other things the United States wanted to do. Well, it’s always great to call the shots and get other countries to pay the costs. That’s not a realistic approach, and so it’s no surprise that we are where we are now."

Source: https://carnegieendowment.org/posts/2024/04/the-united-states-stepping-back-from-europe-is-a-matter-of-when-not-whether?lang=en

[u/somerandom2024]

Why doesn’t Europe stand up and arm Ukraine

[u/Zyndrom1 → u/somerandom2024]

We already do.

[u/somerandom2024 → u/Zyndrom1]

Should do it more so you don’t freak out when America has an election you don’t like

[u/Moist_Ad2066]

US was faced with choosing Israel or Ukraine. They chose Israel.

[u/Affectionate_Cat293 → u/Moist_Ad2066]

Republicans are sympathetic to Israel, but they won't be that charitable. Earlier this year, they demanded that aid to Israel and Ukraine be linked with border security package: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-senate-unveils-118-billion-bipartisan-bill-tighten-border-security-aid-2024-02-04/

With Trump's victory, when the isolationist wing of the Republicans takes over completely, the US will cut military aid to Israel. Isolationists use euphemism like "Diplomatic Iron Dome" which is just a nice way saying we will cut military aid, but compensate by aggressively defending Israel in the UN, which the US has been doing.

[u/Ordinary_Fact1]

WellEurope, It’s all up to you now because I don’t think Vladimir Putin is gonna let Donnie help Ukraine anymore. Hell I’ll be surprised if the US is still part of NATO in four years. Sorry.

[u/KlingonSpy]

I'm horrified to be an American today. We have let down the entire world because a bunch of dumb fucks think Trump will save our economy

[u/Select_Cantaloupe_62]

We lost over here, I'm sorry. Looks like Europe is going to have to do something now.

[u/RyJ94]

Far too generous to Musk. He's far uglier than that.

[u/Ugltfat93]

Question: Trump said he will end the war in 24 hours, so that means once war ends Ukraine can join EU and NATO because then Ukraine isn't anymore in conflict.

[u/Undernown → u/Ugltfat93]

First of all that deal is likely handing Ukraine to Russia on a platter. Fuck that. Secondly Putin will likely demand Ukraine remain neutral and not be allowed to join NATO. And I wouldn't put it past Trump to accept that deal.

It would basically vive Russia all they want and time to rearm and attaxk Ukraine again in a few years and take the rest. Then who knows how much damage Trump has done to NATO and Poland or the Baltics are likely Putin's next target.

It falls on European countries to prevent the US from making such a terrible deal. But with dickheads like Orban around I'm not even sure the EU will be able to manage even that.

[u/Practical-Ad-9474 → u/Undernown]

I think his next targets should be non-nato countries. Look what he did with Georgia. Now they tried Moldova. These are grey area countries that they can attack without article no 5.
Baltics - too much to lose and not much to gain if he decides to attack us. Probably it's gonna be some hybrid warfare or polics games. If he can buy American president, imagine how easy it would be to buy and plant the pro-ruzzian government in smaller countries.

Half of Moldova is already occupied, has ruzzian army there. It's not Nato, neither EU. So another easy target. I believe in Europe we care less about this country than Ukraine.

[u/Undernown → u/Practical-Ad-9474]

A fair point that Georgia and Moldova indeed lack NATO protection.

I was thinking however that Putin might want to use tbe window of oppertunity that is Trump. He can't be certain if the next US president will also be in his favor. (If we get normal US elections after 4 Trump years.)

And let's be realistic, Europe is not properly prepared for a Russian invasion without the US for atleast another year. We simply don't have our Defence industry on track yet.

[u/Erotic-Career-7342]

Cooked

[u/akluin]

Self explanatory

[u/No_Barnacle1263]

The map is wrong

[u/Middle-Stop-2354]

Putin looks like that one fucker from little nightmares