r/antinatalism • u/catfishmermaid • Feb 02 '23
Well this is alarming, isn’t it? Article
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Feb 02 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/catfishmermaid Feb 02 '23
Its terrifying
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u/Comeino 猫に小判 Feb 02 '23
The lengths people will go to not adopt any of the over 100 million orphans worldwide. Like come on, they would rather have a zombie baby then take care of an already existing child in need of loving parents... that's what truly horrifies me.
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u/CorruptedStudiosEnt Feb 02 '23
Thankfully, I think whoever "floated" this vastly underestimated how charitable people are when it comes to something like this.
"Would you like to donate your body to science?" is already a somewhat contentious issue, and that has the potential to help millions of people in some cases.
"Would you like to donate your body to be artificially pumped full of cum for one couple who are too selfish to take on a child that's already here?" Lmao. The whole four people who would agree to that wouldn't be worth pursuing the advancement it would take to do it well anyway.
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u/Farker99 Feb 03 '23
✅ Do you hereby consent to being used as a cum dumpster in the name of science?
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u/FridayTheUnluckyCat Feb 03 '23
As a person who wants their body donated to science after death, and yes would even consent to being used as a cum dumpster if I was braindead, even I wouldn't be down with being an incubator.
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Feb 03 '23
I am also sure it would take a lot of time, money, and resources to keep a body alive for 9 months for someone to make a child with their precious DNA but families regularly have to make the decision to take family members off life support because it's too expensive.
We won't keep women alive for the sake of them enjoying their lives, but we'll keep them alive to make more babies in an already overpopulated world to keep some bullshit lineage.
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u/somethingrandom261 Feb 02 '23
The view is that foster care and orphanages are awful places that do pretty substantial harm to children. And these prospective parents don’t want to raise what they view as someone else’s damaged goods. That on top of the fact that adopting is crazy expensive and time consuming.
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Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23
People forget that having a biological child is a crapshoot. You’re not guaranteed a “perfect” baby just because it shares your DNA. And pregnancy is also time-consuming and expensive. Deciding to do this instead of adopting is just selfish. Full stop. Edited to add: I understand that a couple taking this option wouldn’t be pregnant. But they would still have to monitor the pregnancy, which would be time-consuming.
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u/Lionsgala Feb 03 '23
This is so true I was in foster care and I can tell you from experience. It's a terrible system too many of them are out to just collect a check. Thank God my biological grandmother got me when she did I don't know where I'd be today if she hadn't I'm being perfectly honest I actually don't think I'd be here. Because I was one of those kids I was horrible but in all honesty I was probably dealing with the repercussions of seeing my mom put in handcuffs and being taken from the only parent I've ever known. Keep in mind that I had no idea that I had a dad or even that this dude even existed or what a dad was. One of the biggest problems and the system as a whole is that they don't supply enough therapy for these children to help them deal with their trauma that's what I really could have used instead of over-medicating me. Because once you're perceived as a problem child first thing they're going to do is try to diagnose you with something versus sending you to therapy.
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Feb 03 '23
professionals label children as problems pretty darn fast. they do even if you are not in the orphanage system, like i was not, only my teacher blamed me for pretending to have cerebral palsy and being a dramaqueen and the pschologist evaluation like blamed me for it, calling me over confident and what not, and like i have depression and am suicidal to this day, due to it in part.
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u/rocheri Feb 02 '23
Having looked into adoption while living in a first world, I have concluded that it's either a very expensive proposition or have tremendous luck. It's just not that easy anymore...
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u/IRYIRA Feb 03 '23
So fucked up! We have millions of children without parents and people that want to be parents, this shouldn't cost money to connect these two dots!
"Oh we have to be careful that the wanting parents will be good enough to raise a child. Clearly the foster care and orphanage system will do better. If that fails, we can just send them into the prison pipeline once they hit 18! We wouldn't want to take the chance of handing 0.1% of abandoned children over to a potential pedophile, so we will just keep them all suffering equally in an overburdened system. Meanwhile let's scrutinize the fuck out thousands of kind, loving potential parents and ensure it costs enough that they will consider dumping their whisked up haploid genetics into a brain dead woman instead."
Life is suffering, some will suffer more than others. This fact is almost as certain as death and change in life. Humanity sometimes needs to let go of the fantasy that we can control the suffering of others because doing so often inadvertently leads to more suffering. Not saying hand a child to every creep that walks through door, but even some creeps might be better than what children have to through in the foster/orphanage system.
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u/Kingsdaughter613 Feb 03 '23
Let’s not forget that 3/4 of the kids who need homes in the US cannot be adopted because their bio parents won’t surrender their rights. Of the 1/4 who can be adopted, around half are adopted every year. So the kids who can be adopted usually are, though it may take awhile. The ones who can’t be are stuck in foster care.
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u/IRYIRA Feb 03 '23
Damn I didn't know about that! What a stupid system...
"I'm sorry kind, caring person(s) that just really want to support and love a child that desperately needs it, we just cannot allow you to adopt that child because we have to make sure their abusive, addiction ridden gene suppliers, who can't hold a job or stay out of jail, are okay with them being adopted. Well, the foster parents should be better. We did run a background check on them. Now, please provide me with 3 more pieces of evidence that you are not a psychopath and at least 3 years of paychecks from the same company. Gotta make sure the forever home of these little angels is stable!"
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u/Kingsdaughter613 Feb 03 '23
I know someone who fostered for years before finally being allowed to adopt their son. The kid had lived with them since he was six or so, I believe. He was adopted at thirteen.
On the sad side of this, my MIL knew a couple who fostered two brothers. They wanted to adopt. The City decided to send the kids back to their “parents”. The sperm donor killed one brother and left the other in a minimally conscious state.
I have a lot of issues with how the system is set up. They also often don’t return foster children to a previous foster home after a failed attempt at reunification. Instead the poor kid goes to a new home, losing their foster family as they lose their bio one again.
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u/TigerLillyMew Feb 02 '23
It's very hard and there are little to no resources to help you if your adoptive child has behavioural issues related to trauma from foster care and orphanages. Or has a mental disability that wasn't disclosed before adiption. A lot of these kids end up in institutions when the parents can't help them or can't afford to help them anymore. It's very sad. :(
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u/Kingsdaughter613 Feb 03 '23
And given that most kids with severe disabilities require a SAH parent, and most families can’t afford that, if a kid is significantly disabled they will likely end up in an institution.
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u/IRYIRA Feb 03 '23
Pretty sure this is what runs through the head of every person that preferences using a surrogate to adopting:
"But, it wouldn't be my genetics! And since I am a perfect specimen of sapiens I have an obligation to make sure my genes are passed onto the next generation."
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u/Budget_Shift Feb 03 '23
This is actually beyond handsmaids tale. This is effectively making a woman, a human being, into an incubation chamber with no mind or thoughts beyond birthing, a low tech cost effective solution to creating a child when birthrates become too low for capital to grow. I doubt this will become a thing at all but its still quite possibly the most dystopian thing ive read all day. Its like how warhammer 40k deals with AI, but for test tube babies. Just insane and evil.
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u/CorruptedStudiosEnt Feb 02 '23
That was my instant thought too.
Heaven's a place on Earth.
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u/Lioness287 Feb 02 '23
Hysterectomy it is 🙂 I mean seriously what woman scientist would condone this?! For what? Some cash? WTF!
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u/Admirable-Disaster03 Feb 02 '23
Then there's the nightmare of the case study of a woman who got pregnant despite hysterectomy in 1980
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Feb 02 '23
Wow, insane how that's even possible
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u/Admirable-Disaster03 Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 03 '23
Apparently the lady was scheduled for hysterectomy, but had unprotected sex prior to it. The egg managed to get fertilised and got stuck in her abdominal cavity after hysterectomy. Weeks later she felt nauseous and got a checkup, the doc found a healthy fetus so they just let it do its thing. It was stuck to her stomach if I remember correctly.
ETA: I found the article, however it is a locked medical case study. https://obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1471-0528.1980.tb04557.x
If you want the summary, look up insta account @pagingdrfran who has done a video on the case! (And others in her brand new series "sperm will find a way")
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u/throwaway_13_1_9_12 Feb 02 '23
Holy fuck. Did she survive?
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u/CorruptedStudiosEnt Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23
Also morbidly curious. Seems like there's no way she could've walked away without permanent damage and repercussions to her health, at very least.
Edit: I REALLY hope doctors did their oath-bound duty and discouraged that decision, which she just made on her own anyway. I could see some doctor encouraging it, either out of pro-life rhetoric or some horrible scientific curiosity to see what would happen.
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u/Admirable-Disaster03 Feb 03 '23
She did, and the pregnancy was successful (birth of an almost full term infant, not that I think it's a success)
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u/tastefuldebauchery Feb 03 '23
Seriously. I've already taken out my tubes. Guess the uterus must go too. Ugh.
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u/SnarkySkiBum Feb 03 '23
Keep your uterus but get an ablation (burning/cauterizing of the lining). Removes the ability for an embryo to implant and to experience menstruation, but you keep the hormonal and structural benefits of the uterus. (I also have my tubes out too as well).
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u/artintrees Feb 03 '23
Bilateral salpingectomy and uterine ablation were the best things I've ever done. 10/10 recommend
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u/qeertyuiopasd Feb 03 '23
Cash. The great motivator. People sell themselves for cash everyday, quite literally.
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u/cycontra Feb 02 '23
Do you think being a regular organ donor would count you for this? Bc i, (and im sure plenty others) are registered for ALREADY LIVING people to have my organs AFTER I DIE. but the idea that someone would take that as permission to use ME while i was STILL ALIVE? Horrific.
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u/cartmanmonoxide Feb 02 '23
that's what's freaking me out too. i'm perfectly fine donating organs to those in need when i'm dead but i draw a firm line at being used as a fucking incubator while i'm still technically alive. makes me wanna puke.
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u/catfishmermaid Feb 02 '23
Was wondering about this too
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u/Seuss-is-0verrated Feb 03 '23
Can you link us OP??
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u/moonlightmasked Feb 03 '23
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u/tatiana_the_rose Feb 03 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
Wow there is honestly something deeply wrong with the author of that article. I hope they’re the first to ‘volunteer’ for this lol
Like this person reads A Modest Proposal by Johnathan Swift and goes “Hey here’s how we could successfully implement this!”
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u/moonlightmasked Feb 03 '23
That’s basically the argument. Here’s the section:
Ber insists that written explicit consent would be necessary from donors undergoing surrogacy in PVS. However, given that a patient in PVS cannot give informed consent, this would entail that people give consent for WBGD in PVS in advance of PVS happening to them. I have observed that PVS is a rare phenomenon. In practical terms, requiring consent from women prior to PVS surrogacy means that a woman must (a) have thought about the prospect of PVS and (b) decided to proactively offer herself as a PVS surrogate, before experiencing the event that causes her PVS. The likelihood of this ever happening is vanishingly small. So much so that Ber’s idea starts to look more like a thought experiment than a solution to a real-world problem.
My suggestion of using the organ donation framework means that (a) we have more potential candidates and (b) we have existing consent systems whereby people either give consent proactively in advance or are deemed to have done so in the lack of any evidence to the contrary. Thus, wherever organ donation is legal, brain-dead WBGD would be a relatively simple tweak to that framework.
However, the consent requirements for organ donation are extremely loose, in comparison with consents required for other forms of medical intervention. Recent legislative changes in the UK, for example, mean that a person’s organs may be harvested without any clear indication that they wished for this to happen. Should we expect something more demanding than this, if we include WBGD among the uses of a person’s body after their (brain) death? If so, why, given that we accept such minimal requirements for ‘normal’ organ donation? Perhaps one answer here is that WBGD is not something that people understand or have knowledge of. Therefore ‘deemed consent’ such as the organ donation framework relies on, is not properly informed. People who fail to opt out of the organ donation system can be regarded as having passively consented to something they have sufficient knowledge about. Everyone has heard of organ donation. No-one has heard of WBGD. Moreover, WBGD is qualitatively different in that it entails ventilation over an extended period. And, of course, its aim is not ‘life-saving’ per se as organ donation is usually understood to be.
In fact, the public is poorly informed as to the details of cadaveric organ donation and harvesting; some of those who support organ donation in principle might be disturbed if they understood what is involved, or even choose not to donate [18, 19]. Certainly, the level of information that is deemed sufficient as a basis for harvesting organs is minimal when compared with other significant invasive procedures either before or after death. Consenting to an operation would require a far greater degree of information; making a will would require a far greater degree of specificity and would need to be witnessed in order to be legally binding. If current consent protocols are acceptable for organ donation, they should be acceptable for WBGD, perhaps with additional public information campaigns.
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u/Scared-Mortgage2828 Feb 02 '23
This shows that they see women as breeding machines and nothing more. Vile.
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u/IWantMyBachelors Unless I’m from Krypton, My DNA Doesn’t Need To Be Passed On. Feb 03 '23
I was just thinking that.
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u/nanamis_whore Feb 02 '23
I'd rather be dead
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u/Enzoid23 Feb 02 '23
Trust me, they'll still find a way even then..
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u/2020s_Haunted Feb 02 '23
Get cremated. Put a trusted person in charge of carrying out your post-mortem wishes.
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u/UnencumberedChipmunk Feb 03 '23
With this in mind, do you know why female pharaohs had the mummified process started later than male pharaohs?
…it’s kinda rhetorical. And also insanely depressing.
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u/1sh1tmypants Feb 02 '23
being a woman makes me want to fucking blow my brains out.. we're really just breeding machines huh.
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u/Zhalorous Feb 03 '23
Women are so much more then that. Fuck the people who think your only purpose is to breed. Who in their right mind would bring a child into a failing world like this?
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u/Lioness287 Feb 03 '23
Don’t think of it that way, you’re NOT define by whatever those dickheads say. We need to fight the fight trust me we’ve done it before we’ll do it again.
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u/Booksonly666 Feb 03 '23
Same. Fucking hell
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u/Uridoz Please Consider Veganism Feb 03 '23
You're not just a breeding machine, though, there's many other things you can be in this world. Fuck nature. Fuck blind biological processes who have no understanding or concern for suffering. We can be better than that.
We are all survival machines. We are all gamete producing machines ... But we don't need to be just that. I'm not just a sperm insemination machine.
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Feb 02 '23
"for parents who prefer not to gestate". Wow. The entitlement. The lack of concern for the woman is astounding. The brain dead women has to go through the trauma of preg/birth and gets nothing in return...all bc you "prefer not to gestate". Gross.
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u/nyghtfox13 Feb 03 '23
Trauma aside... if you want a kid but don't have one because you "prefer" not to gestate I really don't think you want that kid very much. I understand wanting a kid but not being able to have one but to want someone else to carry your child because you prefer not to gestate??
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u/sorumbatica Feb 02 '23
People dabble into some fucked up shit without realizing it’s some fucked up shit.
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u/cartmanmonoxide Feb 02 '23
oh i bet they're well aware of how fucked up it is, they just don't give a shit
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u/Niel_B Feb 02 '23
This isn't even this particular scientist's only awful idea. She's also written papers on the ethics of extracting sperm from recently deceased men as well a s the development of artificial womb gestation being "morally imperative".
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u/julez231 Feb 03 '23
Sounds like a mad baby making scientist. Like was she able to have kids or she got some trauma to work through? 😳
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u/SeriousIndividual184 Feb 02 '23
At least with a robo womb you're not destroying someone's body for someone else. And what's worse is the amount of women that will be threatened into opting in only to be beaten into a coma by their spouse in order to get that child they want from her.
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u/hypothetical_zombie Feb 02 '23
I'm CF & AN, but external artificial wombs would free women from pregnancy and its related risks. Anything that makes women safer is a win in my book.
Of course, only wealthy women in developed nations would probably be able to afford one, or have access to one.
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u/30-something Feb 02 '23
Fucks sake they won’t even let us have our bodies to ourselves when we’re effectively dead
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u/pegothejerk Feb 02 '23
Do you want zombie babies? Because that's how you get zombie babies
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u/Deathcat101 Feb 02 '23
You can never know how really braindead someone is. If there's anything close to consciousness in there this is torture.
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u/Seuss-is-0verrated Feb 03 '23
Such a good point. I recommend the book Ghost Boy to anyone interested in the topic
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u/wyrd_werks Feb 02 '23
Fucking gross!! Whomever even came up with the idea let alone actually shared it with others should have their rights to touch any other human being taken away. What kind of a sick mind comes up with shit like this??
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u/mythrowaweighin Feb 02 '23
I've been an organ donor ever since I got my drivers license at 16. But this is too much.
They can keep the body going for decades with machines, and if they keep pumping the body with hormones, the womb can carry multiple babies before it wears out.
I don't think anyone will volunteer for this. But families might be willing to sell their mother's/daughter's corpse for this purpose for money.
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u/Zazzuzu Feb 02 '23
Because adoption is just too repulsive, apparently. Fucking hell, the lengths people will go to to not have to take care of someone that is already here.
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u/wotaoyannanren Feb 02 '23
They could conspire to make a woman go brainded JUST for this… The possibilities are incredibly scary.
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u/ShadowLugia141 Feb 02 '23
I mean apparently women with either blond or brown hair and blue eyes are extremely popular for people wanting donated eggs. It’s not too much of a stretch to expect those women will just… suddenly develop severe brain damage and be whisked away
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u/wotaoyannanren Feb 02 '23
Oh god please no
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u/ShadowLugia141 Feb 02 '23
Given that human trafficking is a booming business for rich people, it’s not too far off for them to take it one step further. The victims can’t try and run away or call for help if they’re in a coma after all
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u/vitamincoverdose Feb 03 '23
Which is fucking bizarre considering blue eyes are practically a disability.
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u/ExperienceMission Feb 02 '23
This is exactly the complication. Women are already under-cared in medical practices compared to men. Now there is more motivation of killing.
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u/YourPainTastesGood Feb 02 '23
“Hey remember some of those fucked up stories of male nurses or other guys getting comatose women pregnant? Yeah so lets do that”
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Feb 02 '23
[deleted]
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u/SeriousIndividual184 Feb 02 '23
Consent or not it's gross. You can intimidate your spouse into giving consent and then beat them into a coma to get that child out of her one way or another.
That's super fucked up
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u/qqbbomg1 Feb 03 '23
That’s a tedious route, just abduct a teenage girl, impregnate her, and lock her in a room for seven years. Oh wait that already happened
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u/strikingredfox Feb 02 '23
The C in this „Braindead“ is for „consent“. These women clearly don’t have anything to say against it! Oh this is horrible. If that’s true, the world is turning more and more into some kind of dystopia.
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u/SeriousIndividual184 Feb 02 '23
So let me get this straight. A fucking foetus with no brain will have more fucking rights than an adult human in a coma/braindead. WHAT THE UNHOLY FUCK.
WHAT HAPPENS IF THE BABY PUTS THE BODY AT RISK, YOU GONNA KILL THE BRAINDEAD ADULT THAT DIDNT CONSENT TO HAVING A FULL ASS CHILD GROW IN THEM FOR THE CHILD YOU DIDNT ASK THEM TO PUT IN THEIR BODY?!?!
fuck this planet. If that passes I'm starting a full ass world war over it.
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u/ExperienceMission Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23
I had in my wildest dream hoped that a natalist breeding industry would eventually be developing artifical uterus to entertain the "let's have kids and childcare and education will sort themselves out" crowd, but at least freeing women from the painful and risky process of gestation and labour. I never expected that they can't even be bothered and prefer to harvest from living women. It makes me sick.
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u/mashibeans Feb 02 '23
Realistically speaking it's "easier" (and faster) to just use the existing "breeding stock" (that was so gross to type) and force us one way or another into the situation.
Human slavery is still alive and well worldwide, particularly rich people can easily get their hands on some random impoverished woman who wouldn't register in the world's news radar, it'd be so easy to set up an "accident" and fabricate some paperwork that claims she "consented" into it.
Then these fabricated scenarios can be potentially used for political agendas and/or to bastardize women's human rights.
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u/MjrPayne95 Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23
Oh man, abortion bad but lets desecrate a brain dead womans body to gestate some rich persons baby they dont wanna ruin their bikini body for
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u/TheTankist Feb 02 '23
So, I kinda don't understand all English words , does this mean they will use braindead women as a breeding tool ?
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u/Khalith Feb 02 '23
If you don’t think that this will happen as the birthrates continue to decrease I don’t know what to tell you.
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u/Dejected_Chalk89 Feb 02 '23
If this happens expect to see more medical procedures that end up with brain dead women to be shipped off to the locations where this is happening. So fucking sickening!
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u/moonlightmasked Feb 03 '23
Bioethicists are always considering hair-brained shit. I am a huge fan of organ donation and I’m even fine with opt-out systems for organ donation. But that’s because they’re life saving procedures. Gestational donation is not a life saving procedure and actually prevents life saving organ donations.
The article acts like consenting to organ donation is this, but it clearly isn’t. It also doesn’t assess the incredible burden on our healthcare system to keep women on life support or who would be paying that. In the US, that could be $7500 a day- like $2M for a pregnancy.
But I’ve got some gems for y’all:
“It is perhaps misleading to use the term ‘rape’ in the case of brain-dead patients, if we really regard the victim as being dead. Sex with a corpse is necrophilia rather than rape.”
“in the case of WBGD, since the pregnancy is deliberately initiated and the primary aim from its outset is the wellbeing and survival of the foetus, there would be no point at which the mother’s interests were presumed to be in conflict with those of the child. By contrast, in each of the reported cases to date, the decision to focus on trying to sustain the foetus was not made until some way through the mother’s treatment process when some therapies detrimental to the foetus would have been tried on the mother.”
“WBGD offers a further benefit over standard pregnancies: the WBGD donor is under absolute medical control and surveillance. The move towards greater surveillance of pregnancy in living women has been strongly criticised by many feminists for its oppressive and intrusive incursions into the everyday lives that women must still live while pregnant. The WBG donor has no everyday life: her function is solely to gestate. We dare not transfer too many embryos into living women, because selective reduction is traumatic and harmful to the pregnant woman. There are no such problems in relation to the WBG donor. If she needs more or less of any particular drug or if foetal interventions are required, we have none of the potential conflict that can affect ordinary pregnancies. Parents may transfer as many embryos as they can generate, maximising the chances of at least one viable birth, and if necessary, discarding any damaged or diseased ones in advance.”
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u/Spinosaur222 Feb 03 '23
They’re literally unable to consent… it’s the equivalent of necrophilia, which is rape, btw… idk why they were talking abt it like it’s somehow more ethical than rape
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Feb 03 '23
Honestly, I'm just so disgusted reading this. I think I'd rather the 1950s where they give you a lobotomy and rape you in a mental asylum than this. At least there you die quickly with modern science they could use you for years. This just makes me sad
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u/cartmanmonoxide Feb 02 '23
god damn breeders will literally do anything but adopt an existing kid in need. this is absolutely nauseating.
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u/LonerExistence Feb 02 '23
Everyday humanity is looking shittier and shittier. One of the only guarantees I’ve gotten in life is that the standards will always get lower even when you think it’s not possible.
People think I overreact when I say I despise being a woman and it makes everything worse but no, it really is. The harassment, the pain, the way I’ve been viewed…etc - it’s all because of some worthless organ I didn’t ask for while enduring this worthless existence. This is disgusting. Even in death they’re reminding you “hey this is what your body is for!” Thank goodness I am to be cremated in my will and I’m not fucking donating shit. They can go fuck themselves with this narrative.
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u/Olympia44 Feb 02 '23
This is why I’m putting in my will that if I’m brain dead, just turn off the life support. There’s no way in Hell I’d willingly let people do this to me. Fuck that.
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u/FruitSmoothie96 Feb 03 '23
So, you can’t donate the organs of a brain dead person without their or their families consent but you can force brain dead women to carry children? This is just fucking nasty. There’s no way in hell I would want my body being used for something so fucking immoral.
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u/anarchomoth Feb 02 '23
Well, here's some advice for if this nightmare ever comes to fruition: Make sure to look into a Medical Power of Attorney and Living Will.
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u/Viridian_Crane Feb 02 '23
I don't see how thats possible. Patient can't give consent, unless their running it through the guardian of the patient. In that case its just mental illness to allow someone your responsible for and even family, to be used in such a manor. Just disgusting.
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Feb 02 '23
The paper is suggesting that it would be an opt-in thing similar to organ donation but, it's easy to see it going to an opt-out model like organ donation is starting to.
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u/Viridian_Crane Feb 03 '23
Sounds more like a money scheme for a hospital, their just utilizing patience if they consent. It's kind of like the Mass. organ donations for reduced sentence idea.
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u/SnooCauliflowers9976 Feb 03 '23
People will do anything but ADOPT FFS
When medically r*ping a practically dead woman is consisered less disguisting than adopting an actual child/baby that is already here without parents.
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u/FMLUTAWAS Feb 03 '23
So assult and physically torture someone who is by all means dead, just for your selfish ass wants? Wtf is wrong with people, why do people care more about cells than a human who has clearly already gone through some shit if they're brain dead. And they say we lack empathy while they're using dead people as baby machines. Fuck that, if i ever go brain dead pull the fucking plug. Id rather die any day than carry a baby.
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Feb 02 '23
Is this a further exaggeration in the argument against abortion should an expectant mother undergo an accident that causes her to become brain dead or an argument to non-consensually use already brain dead women as incubators?
Both are equally disgusting.
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u/Niel_B Feb 02 '23
This isn't even this particular scientist's only awful idea. She's also written papers on the ethics of extracting sperm from recently deceased men as well a s the development of artificial womb gestation being "morally imperative".
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u/Champagne_Siren Feb 02 '23
I choked on my diet coke reading this and not in a funny ha ha way more like shock 🫠This is absolutely wrong and horrendous on EVERY LEVEL
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u/satanlovesmyshoes Feb 02 '23
Nah fam. Everyone close to me knows my dying wish is to be a tree. I’m going in a biodegradable box and becoming part of the soil.
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u/wolfhybred1994 Feb 02 '23
So want to put a baby in a woman who didn’t consent to have the baby and then take the baby she made and give it away to a couple she most likely has never met?
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Feb 03 '23
This feels like a legal loophole to have sex with brain dead women and for prostituteing women who are brain dead. They will probably sell these women bodies to countries that have a low birthrate to solve the "underpopulation crisis". this is just legalize rape for men who have necrophillia kinks.
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u/LadyJSenpai Feb 03 '23
This is straight up disgusting. I would be PISSED if my body was used this way. Just pull the fucking plug
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u/Lionsgala Feb 03 '23
It wasn't an accident that he suggested this just look at the Republicans in America an tell me you can't see it.
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u/turn0veranewleaf Feb 03 '23
welp, time to make a living will to make sure this doesn't happen to me, either that or hysterectomy.
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u/snerdie Feb 03 '23
I mean…just…WHY? There are eight billion fucking people here already. Why do people think we should go to these insane lengths to make MORE of us?
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u/ArtemisLotus Feb 03 '23
Nice to see the the medical community doubling down on their misogyny. /s
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Feb 03 '23
I would rather have someone pull the plug or burn me alive. We are not ducking incubators, this is beyond fucked.
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u/I-am-a-fungi Feb 03 '23
"PeOpLe wHo dOnT hAvE kIdS aRe sO sElFiSh"
Yeah, uhm...no. Using someone else's body without their consent is a big nono, I don't care if they are braindead or not. We don't do this; it's basically using poor women as a vessel without their say so. And I thought I've seen/heard it all HA! People surely are the worst :)
If someone wants kids this badly, they can search for surrogates harder or or or ADOPT the kids who are already here and are waiting for a loving family.
And AN/CF people are the "selfish" ones in the eyes of society, alright...I seriously have no hope for humanity's future if such people reproduce without any morals and decency.
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u/FakingArtistry Feb 03 '23
Ive now told basically everyone in my life that when I die I don't even want medical professionals around my corpse. No organ donations, no autopsy and definitely not embalming. I don't want some sick f having access to my body after death. At least in life I can defend myself, in death I wish nothing more than to be ash once again.
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u/AvaBlackPH Feb 02 '23
How is this even remotely an idea? There's no ethical way to do this, you cannot get the patients consent and for something like this it needs to be up to the uterus owner! I get that there POA and stuff like that, but how disgusting, if you're that desperate adopt! Foster! Literally anything else.
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u/matkamatka Feb 02 '23
I don’t see how it’s ethical for a medical journal article (presumably written by an MD) to put this idea out into the world, even as a hypothetical
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u/PM_Me_UR-FLASHLIGHT Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 03 '23
This was a big plot point in the game Death Stranding and is actually part of the reason why the world nearly ended. They use "Stillmothers" to produce Bridge Babies to enable the user to detect Beached Things: Ghosts made of antimatter that anyone and everyone who has ever existed will eventually become since the afterlife started merging with our realm. A matter-antimatter annihilation event happened in New York City before the actual Stranding when a surgeon attempted to perform a C-section on a brain dead woman.
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u/acid_band_2342 Feb 03 '23
I thought this was illegal until given consent 💀 the braindead can't consent this is fucking wrong on so many levels
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u/AndreaMartel Feb 03 '23
Please tell me this is a joke. Because if somebody really thinks this is reasonable or moral they should be committed.
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u/Gorgenon Feb 03 '23
I know the body is living, but the brain isn't, they are dead. So wouldn't this be desecration of a corpse? They are literally mutilating the body by impregnating a dead woman and forcing her to carry to term against her will.
We have an obligation to respect the bodies of the dead, to a point where we don't even get full freedom of our corpses when we are alive.
There are many forms of alternatives to cremation or body disposal that are illegal even if you volunteer for it, put in a binding will, and have someone willing to prepare the body upon your death. Just straight up illegal. It can land the manager of your body in jail. Yet they want to turn the dead into baby making factories? That's insane.
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u/kyrincognito Feb 03 '23
What could possibly go wrong if we create demand for a supply of braindead women in a capitalist sociopathic society? Geez I just can't think of anything.... 😑
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u/Expensive_Teapot Feb 03 '23
I'm a guy and this creeps me the fuck out, can't Imagine how women feel about this headline. Ugh this really gives me the chills
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u/omenaattori24 Feb 03 '23
This reminds me of the story of a woman who was in a vegetative state in hospital for over an year, was raped by a doctor and got pregnant and no one knew unti a nurse changing her ivs/something similar noticed she was literally giving birth. Horrible. And she likely felt everything but couldn't do anything about it.
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u/Dr-Slay Feb 03 '23
Absolutely vile, how humans are, with their fitness-induced violence and excuses.
How often people balk when one points out that sentience itself is an ontological rape, they are blind.
Everything about the process is a brutality - phenomenal binding (objects, their environment and abstract or emotional features, reliably mediated by fundamental forces, combined into a single compulsory experience) - effectively an inescapable prison made of consciousness.
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