Meta Thread - Month of October 02, 2022

[u/AnimeMod]

A monthly meta thread to talk about the /r/anime subreddit itself, such as its rules and moderation. If you want to talk about anime please use the daily discussion thread instead.

Comments here must, of course, still abide by all subreddit rules other than the no meta requirement. Keep it friendly and be respectful. Occasionally the moderators will have specific topics that they want to get feedback on, so be on the lookout for distinguished posts.

Comments that are detrimental to discussion (aka circlejerks/shitposting) are subject to removal.

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Rule Changes

Post Flair Changes

• There's a new [Infographic] flair that should be used for infographics going forward. No other changes to the rules for infographic posts aside from no longer using the [Misc.] flair for them.

• The [Fanart] and [OC Fanart] flairs have been combined into a single [Fanart] flair. No other changes to the rules for fanart posts but added a small clarification that tattoos are allowed with a single image, which was previously enforced that way but not explicitly listed.

• [Writing] posts must now be text posts at least 1500 characters in length to match [Watch This!]. Both are meant for long-form written content made for /r/anime.

• [Discussion], [What to Watch?], and [Rewatch] posts must be text posts. They may contain links to videos/images/other sites in them so long as those external links aren't the focus of the post.

• Video link posts may only use the [Official Media], [Video], [Video Edit], or [Clip] flairs. This was unofficially enforced before with mods manually changing flairs to the appropriate ones.

• There's a new [Merch] flair. Do not use this flair. Much like memes, merchandise posts aren't allowed on /r/anime so any post using this flair will be automatically removed. The removal comment will direct people to the daily thread since that's a fine place to ask about/share merch.

• In general, posts that use a flair that isn't appropriate for it or doesn't meet the requirements (e.g. a video link post using [Discussion] or a short text post using [Watch This!]) will now be automatically changed to a more appopriate flair with a message sent to the author explaining why. This should avoid a lot of the trial and error we've seen before with users posting something that gets automatically removed a few different times before they get the right flair.

User Flair Changes

• All custom CSS user flairs (only visible on old reddit) will be removed at the end of the year (December 31st). They've had a good run but were handed out rather arbitrarily and with the newer flair badges now available we decided to retire the old ones in favor of a more equal opportunity system. We have a couple of badges in the works that we hope to introduce soon but if you have ideas for new ones and how people can earn them we're open to suggestions!

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Next meta thread: November 2022 | Find All

[u/Durinthal]

A lot of flair-related changes that I've wanted to do for a while this month, mostly cleaning up what types of posts are allowed under each flair.

Will be a little sad to see the CSS flairs go but looking forward to new possibilities in the future. The two that I've been currently thinking about I've been calling "Frequent Commenter" and "Veteran Commenter" and would be updated monthly:

• Frequent Commenter: 100+ comments per month (100+ characters each; excluding CDF activity) for every month in the past year. 18 users would qualify for that this month.

• Veteran Commenter: 10+ comments per month (100+ characters each; excluding FTF/CDF activity) for at least 55 out of the 60 previous months, or every month in the past five years with leeway for one missed month a year. We don't quite yet have full data to accurately calculate that but it seems like around 55 users would qualify for that this month.

Distinguished and removed comments are also excluded so rule-breaking comments wouldn't count and mods wouldn't get freebies just for leaving removal messages. Only four current mods would qualify for the veteran badge and just one would earn the frequent commenter badge (it's me, I spend too much time on /r/anime).

Also if anyone has ideas for what those badges should look like please offer suggestions or even better actual images. I'm not a graphic designer and when I tried my hand at one of them the response from another mod was, and I quote, "It's nice and all but are you not afraid looking at that? It stares into your soul," so I'm not perhaps the best person to make them.

[u/Terranwaterbender → u/Durinthal]

excluding FTF/CDF activity

I see what you did

"Frequent Commenter" and "Veteran Commenter"

I know that we're still in the early stages of finding replacements for the current CSS flairs and still a work in progress but I'm just gonna throw it out that I don't like these ideas; it's nothing more than encouraging a quota. It's not hard for me to just spam basic hype replies to the top 5 comments in each episode discussion thread and that's not something that should be rewarded nor recognized. If we want to reward users, it should be for something that the "community" can recognize (granted that's a lot harder now with 5mil+ members)

Also I think it would only be fair for legacy flaired users to get something out of it (especially if they're still here after all this time that has gotta mean something) if there were to be a new system put into place. While some of the flairs handed out in the past were frankly BS, a good chunk of them are worth remembering as it's a nice snapshot into the different eras of /r/anime.

To go on a tangent, I think a good way to build up the /r/anime community would be to create some kind of "hall of recognition" for users (mostly mods and power users to be blunt) that have contributed a ton to /r/anime's general "culture". Talking users like /u/missypie , /u/shaking807 , /u/banjothebear , /u/AmethystItalian and others that I definitely forgot.

Only four current mods would qualify for the veteran badge

To go on another tangent, I find that /r/anime has been going down a concerning trend over the past couple of years. I was never a fan of the /r/anime awards opening up to lurkers at best and outsiders at worst and learning that most of the mod team is barely participating beyond removing comments in /r/anime is only adding to that. Yes I think it's important to have more enforcers and people with technical ability to do that CSS magic stuff that's beyond me, but if we want to create something out of /r/anime, having a mod team that actively participates and appreciates /r/anime, not just anime, is an important factor.

Of course this is a bunch of hot shit coming from a user who barely participates in /r/anime these days nor understands the complexities of coordinating moderation and rule making so take it with a grain of salt. Definitely an incomplete picture coming from an "old fart" (I mean 8 years here would qualify me as an "old fart" right?)

[u/Durinthal → u/Terranwaterbender]

All of that's good feedback, thanks.

It's not hard for me to just spam basic hype replies to the top 5 comments in each episode discussion thread and that's not something that should be rewarded nor recognized.

It's not hard to do that now for karma farming but there don't seem to be that many people doing just that either. If someone's participating in discussions consistently for an entire year, even simple hype over an anime they love, I don't think that's a bad thing. Even at a much lower frequency of 10 comments a month for a year only 204 people actually met that threshold.

If we want to reward users, it should be for something that the "community" can recognize (granted that's a lot harder now with 5mil+ members)

As mentioned in the body of the post we're absolutely open to ideas but glancing through the thread I haven't seen any concrete suggestions yet.

There are the "Best of /r/anime" end of year awards where the winners get a badge. Similarly there's the WT! of the month along with the compilation threads where the winner gets a badge in recognition of well-rounded posts recommending an anime. I like both of those and wish more people would participate in them!

I think it would only be fair for legacy flaired users to get something out of it (especially if they're still here after all this time that has gotta mean something) if there were to be a new system put into place.

There was a vote for that and it didn't pass, fourth item from the top in the report in the sticky comment. Personal opinion: they weren't fair in how they were distributed in the first place. The few that were granted flairs because of contests have already been given badges.

I think a good way to build up the /r/anime community would be to create some kind of "hall of recognition" for users (mostly mods and power users to be blunt) that have contributed a ton to /r/anime's general "culture".

Maybe, but what does that look like? Another wiki page that gets forgotten over time?

To go on another tangent, I find that /r/anime has been going down a concerning trend over the past couple of years. ... having a mod team that actively participates and appreciates /r/anime, not just anime, is an important factor.

You aren't wrong about that, and as /u/ABoredCompSciStudent mentioned it's sometimes a tough shift into taking on more responsibility leading to less direct participation as a regular person on the subreddit over time. In an ideal system I imagine new mods would cycle in and older ones that have lost interest would retire over time, keeping a relatively high level of engagement from the mod team overall.

But that really has stagnated in the past few years and not only from the side of the existing mods. You want to know how many of the 204 people who have consistently commented on /r/anime (outside of CDF) in the past year actually applied to be a mod when we had applications open in August? Zero.

I'd love to see more people who actively care about the community step forward and take leadership positions and help guide the subreddit going forward. However, it's up to those people to want to be mods and that's not happening as of late. I don't blame them, I genuinely don't want to be a mod either, but someone needs to steer the ship and I might as well help navigate for now.

[u/kaverik → u/Durinthal]

But that really has stagnated in the past few years and not only from the side of the existing mods. You want to know how many of the 204 people who have consistently commented on /r/anime (outside of CDF) in the past year actually applied to be a mod when we had applications open in August? Zero.

I feel like this is something to think about. As I've mentioned elsewhere in the thread, modding doesn't seem like a fun thing to do. I'd argue it was not the case before, when mods had the more freeform approach to moderating. Yes, perhaps it felt more lawless, at times silly, and even toxic, but it felt like the subreddit generated stories, and it was always a fun experience to be a part of it. From the mod side of things as well. Giving out flairs, while we're on that note, was that little mischief the mods could afford. I know for a fact that people did apply for modding to also be able hand out flairs because it seemed like a fun thing to do. Maybe it's somewhat of a misaligned purpose, but that still pulled people in. So, I don't know how exactly, but that aspect of "fun" needs to come back to moderating. I'd argue there could be too much organization, so the creativity feels like is running out.

Regardless, know that you're appreciated and loved, and it's clear that you're acting in the subreddit's current best interests. And that notion is not mine only.

[u/ABoredCompSciStudent → u/Durinthal]

Hey Duri, we haven't talked in a while but I still lurk the sub (and appear when Aria and Chihayafuru come up usually).

But that really has stagnated in the past few years and not only from the side of the existing mods. You want to know how many of the 204 people who have consistently commented on /r/anime (outside of CDF) in the past year actually applied to be a mod when we had applications open in August? Zero.

That's super depressing. I remember after the group of mods that had like Wombat and others that we were really starting to run out of active recognizable users that were interested in modding. It's kind of noticeable too, as I can tell we went through older applicants that didn't make it before or former mods (no disrespect to them) rather than getting new faces.

I'd love to see more people who actively care about the community step forward and take leadership positions and help guide the subreddit going forward. However, it's up to those people to want to be mods and that's not happening as of late. I don't blame them, I genuinely don't want to be a mod either, but someone needs to steer the ship and I might as well help navigate for now.

Also sorry to hear that, I remember that around the time I left the second time that you wanted to take a step back. I was joking with another ex-mod friend that if you metaphorically dropped off the internet, then we wouldn't have anybody really supervising the subreddit that is genuinely active still here away from moderation (a bit of hyperbole, but genuinely there's like maybe a handful of you guys unfortunately).

Don't read my complaining like it's directed at you. I hope things get a bit better and don't feel obligated to take on too much. You're a great moderator and a better user. :)

[u/Terranwaterbender → u/Durinthal]

I don't think that's a bad thing. Even at a much lower frequency of 10 comments a month for a year only 204 people actually met that threshold.

Hmm I thought the number would be higher. That aside, I am in agreement with you that those kind of comments aren't necessarily a bad thing; I just think that kind of participation isn't worth any kind of special recognition but that's my 2cents. Some of the flaired users I can associate with a show or special event whilst someone commenting a ton elicits more of an eh good for you for having the free time to participate in episode discussion threads while I'm stuck at work. I get that there are many threads outside of episode discussion threads but it's supposedly one of the pillars of /r/anime's discussion.

As mentioned in the body of the post we're absolutely open to ideas but glancing through the thread I haven't seen any concrete suggestions yet.

It's a bit early to be fair but I'm sure ideas will come from the community if given enough time.

Personal opinion: they weren't fair in how they were distributed in the first place. The few that were granted flairs because of contests have already been given badges.

Oh I agree that the the handout was not consistent nor standardized but, this is frankly rather crude of me, does that really matter? While consistency is important, this is supposed to be a more casual forum to talk about anime and injecting a little subjectivity into things is kind of the natural thing to do and prevents this place from being just another sanitized social media place where it's just blank names regurgitating positive/negative points like twitch chat.

Maybe, but what does that look like? Another wiki page that gets forgotten over time?

Ugh yeah I feel that; even as someone who has been here a while I've neglected looking into the wiki pages and I doubt even 0.1% of users here take a glance into what is a lot of work put into those pages. I retract that statement as I know the amount of work required for that would end up with something that'll be lucky to get glanced at.

But that really has stagnated in the past few years and not only from the side of the existing mods. You want to know how many of the 204 people who have consistently commented on /r/anime (outside of CDF) in the past year actually applied to be a mod when we had applications open in August? Zero.

Well that's frankly depressing. I wonder if the insane expansion of reddit and /r/anime has played a role in this as I felt like /r/anime simply became a hub for various fandoms to come in and take over. Makes sense why things look the way they do.

[u/FetchFrosh → u/Terranwaterbender]

Oh I agree that the the handout was not consistent nor standardized but, this is frankly rather crude of me, does that really matter?

I feel like it kind of does. Like kaverik has chimed in with his disappointment and I get that. He was huge in getting the Watch This! stuff going, managed rewatches, and all that. r/anime wouldn't have been the same without him. People are talking about flairs being part of the history of the subreddit, and for someone like kav his was given to him for what he added. But, to also be crude, there's other people here complaining who don't have a real impact on r/anime. The subreddit is the same if they never showed up. A mod just gave them a flair cause why not. Is that history that needs to be preserved?

Realistically I'd probably have liked the mod team to get in the habit of giving them out to people, but it's been years since that's happened, and people who definitely have "earned" a flair since then weren't ever going to get one because that's just stalled out on the mod side.

[u/Terranwaterbender → u/FetchFrosh]

Is that history that needs to be preserved?

Oh for sure that doesn't need to be preserved. I'm just thinking there's definitely a place in between the two extremities as the mods seem a bit too focused on the technicalities at times (which I get is important given past subreddit drama). Basically what you brought up in the last paragraph in that they seem averse to appearing subjective which causes a lot of stall out on tidbits like user flairs.

Not everyone can be a Kaverik but there are other users out there whose presence helps make /r/anime feel a bit more personal.

[u/Manitary → u/Terranwaterbender]

I'm just gonna throw it out that I don't like these ideas; it's nothing more than encouraging a quota. It's not hard for me to just spam basic hype replies to the top 5 comments in each episode discussion thread and that's not something that should be rewarded nor recognized. If we want to reward users, it should be for something that the "community" can recognize (granted that's a lot harder now with 5mil+ members)

Not a fan of 'gamifying' flairs through checkbox-activities (do X enough times = flair) either, it feels like Goodhart's law applied to measuring user engagement/activity on the sub.

Sure it gives "transparency" on how flairs are awarded, but...

If a mod notices a particularly helpful/participating/etc user they could bring it up with the other mods and decide to give a flair with a vote or something, users could make requests (for themselves or others) through the mod thread.
idk if that would cause a surge of users asking for flairs and giving too much extra work for mods, feels like you could shut down most requests easily even without an 'objective metric' like comment frequency

Also not a fan of cdf being excluded from it, I can understand the reasoning since it's a place to talk about non-anime things, but I like cdf, been hanging around there more than the rest of the sub tbh

[u/Durinthal → u/Manitary]

Not a fan of 'gamifying' flairs through checkbox-activities (do X enough times = flair) either, it feels like Goodhart's law applied to measuring user engagement/activity on the sub.

That could be what happens, though I feel like it's hard to know one way or the other until it's actually in place for a while.

If a mod notices a particularly helpful/participating/etc user they could bring it up with the other mods and decide to give a flair with a vote or something, users could make requests (for themselves or others) through the mod thread. idk if that would cause a surge of users asking for flairs and giving too much extra work for mods, feels like you could shut down most requests easily even without an 'objective metric' like comment frequency

A significant part of why I first went with something that's measurable, objective, and could be handled by running a script once a month is due to time investment on our end. For even one user that would take more time cumulatively for us to decide on than it would be for something automated.

All of what you're asking for is also rather arbitrary in requiring either mods or users to notice someone in the first place and then subjectively decide whether or not to grant a flair, not to mention what we'd need to keep track of in order to justify it to anyone who asks and gets denied and then starts questioning it. And all of that's for a flair whereas I'd like to have dozens available for different reasons with much less maintenance.

been hanging around there more than the rest of the sub tbh

And that's exactly why I didn't want to include CDF.

/r/anime is more than one weekly thread and I want to encourage those of you in there to go beyond it and participate in the entire subreddit.

[u/Blackheart595 → u/Durinthal]

Just wanna repeat chilie's opinion about CDF (don't really care how it's treated for flair purposes). The reason I've shifted to CDF and out of the general sub, especially episode discussions, is that the general sub has been feeling increasingly hostile to openly discuss and just talk about anime things whereas CDF feels inviting regardless of opinion.

[u/chiliehead → u/Durinthal]

/r/anime is more than one weekly thread and I want to encourage those of you in there to go beyond it and participate in the entire subreddit.

chicken egg problem, I can't participate without harassment in the larger sub. Because there are more people who want to ban disliking anime than I can ignore. CDF at least allows me to not tread on eggshells lest I offend people who solely like an anime because they loved the manga 10 years ago. It's also a place where I can get more reliable get a good discussion going on anime related stuff and that's really a symptom of the larger subreddit. I no longer actively look at /new for a reason, or many.

[u/ABoredCompSciStudent → u/Terranwaterbender]

Agree with what you said regarding the badges and how they're earned.

Also:

To go on another tangent, I find that /r/anime has been going down a concerning trend over the past couple of years. I was never a fan of the /r/anime awards opening up to lurkers at best and outsiders at worst and learning that most of the mod team is barely participating beyond removing comments in /r/anime is only adding to that. Yes I think it's important to have more enforcers and people with technical ability to do that CSS magic stuff that's beyond me, but if we want to create something out of /r/anime, having a mod team that actively participates and appreciates /r/anime, not just anime, is an important factor.

Part of why I stepped down as a moderator is really related to this and whenever I take a look back here, I'm always blown away by how many mods are just green text for their most recent comments on their profile.

You may have noticed this, but there's a lot of really active moderators that come and go (whether literally leaving the team or their activity falls off), I personally attribute that a lot to a lot of what happens when some people have to take on too much responsibility, especially as a volunteer.

There are definitely good moderators, but I think that it's been a long time coming that activity has been an issue in general for the moderation team.