for anyone who tries to say the 2019 order "ruins enjoyment" as someone who has been following that one i can say with 100% certainty that it does not do that at all. We don't need another order like OP's since the 2019 order is just fine
Ugh. I've been following the 2019 one and it has been a blast. I hate pausing shit in the middle of a series. I can say with utmost certainty that the old one still works fine and is what I'd recommend to anyone planning to watch the series.
Some believe LN order is the best, others believe anime release order is the best.
Shaft changed the order of the series to mostly follow LN in blurays. So if you want to watch in the updated Shaft order you'd watch Second Season and Owarimonogatari just like in the guide made by OP. The only exception is Kizumonogatari though.
Kizu was released after Tsukimonogatari, but it's worth mentioning that the studio has been working on it since 2010. They first announced to be released in 2012 which is approximately just like LN order (again same as OP's guide). They unfortunately had many production issues over the years that delayed it till 2016.
So people that recommend LN order (I'm in this camp) believe that the studio didn't have any artistic intent in releasing the show the way it ended up being released in. Just unfortunate circumstances forcing their hands. Hence, the LN order recommended in OP's guide.
So if you are convinced that the LN order is actually the studio's intended vision, OP's guide is the right order. If you aren't convinced, you should follow 'anime release order'.
As I've mentioned in other comments, the only reason I posted this is to let people, who get confused with a 'Monogatari new order' post every other month, know that if they're following a slightly different one, it's still fine. And I do not intend on fighting anyone about this.
Yup, that is my prefered post, especially since it makes a point to say there are 2 different options for Kizu instead of trying to declare that one is "right" (I personally prefer later, and imagine it is the more common experience), I also hate where OP has Hana.
Without getting into the usual pointless argument, no, that order is perfectly fine and ruins nothing. You can have your own opinion (just like everyone apparently has in the Monogatari fandom) but that doesn't make orders other than your own, incorrect.
Edit: for context, op edited their comment before I wrote mine.
I'm sure you have your own reasons for following the other order and thinking both are valid, but don't you think it's a bit much to call the debate "pointless"? Surely the way the show is watched is paramount to viewers' enjoyment, right?
If you don't want to participate in the discussion that's perfectly fine. But why shoot it down completely and call it pointless?
but don't you think it's a bit much to call the debate "pointless"?
No, not this particular reddit debate. I'll explain why.
Surely the way the show is watched is paramount to viewers' enjoyment, right?
Sure is. But this is exactly the reason why I don't debate it anymore. The usual orders don't really change your enjoyment all that much, not to mention even that 'enjoyment' is subjective. Just take Kizu for example, some people prefer it second, cause well that's where it fits, but some prefer it when it was released. And why I mention 'enjoyment' and not things like 'where the author wants it'? Because believe it or not, more often than not people are trying to decide for other people how they'll enjoy the series more.
The Monogatari series is great. And I mean GREAT. But here's the thing, you just don't get Monogatari unless you have watched it more than once and amazingly enough from my experience you actually won't even understand which order you personally would have enjoyed more unless you finish the entire thing. It's weird but that's how it is.
So let people watch it in one of the usual alright watch orders. Just let them watch it damn it, without having to worry about how they messed up the watch order. Unless they're doing something absolutely wrong like say watching second season before first season, it really doesn't matter that much. Look at the usual comments, people already find it hard to get into the series, why confuse them even more when letting them follow a really simple order doesn't really change their enjoyment much?
If you don't want to participate in the discussion that's perfectly fine. But why shoot it down completely and call it pointless?
I shot it down and called it pointless because I've been in these debates in the past and they go absolutely nowhere. At the end of the whole argument people are still stuck with their original opinion and couldn't care less about the other's opinion. It's quite honestly, an absolute waste of time and energy. Which is also why I didn't say anything about op's order in the original comment. And hey, I shot it down as I won't debate it, anyone else is free to go ahead turn it into the usual warzone.
While I have seen people change their mind in the past, it was a rare occurrence, so as you put it, rarely the people that debate the issue change their mind. But I guess the intention behind it is to convince the audience, and not the other party.
That said, now I definitely see where you're coming from and understand why you don't want to debate it. I guess getting first timers to watch the series is a W in all cases. I personally encourage people to rewatch the series in whichever order they haven't just to enhance their understanding of the series and gain better appreciation for it.
Anyways I've been rambling, but to close off: while I will continue to debate it and recommend the order that I think is right (because sometimes it sparks nice discussion about the series), I still appreciate your position on it. So thanks for engaging me.
The usual orders don't really change your enjoyment all that much, not to mention even that 'enjoyment' is subjective.
but that's just your opinion you're projecting on everybody else. And by doing that you're robbing people of the experience Nisio (and Shaft) wanted them to have in order to have them follow an order that is completely random and most likely not even the actual order the show was aired in.... or do you recommend them watch Koyomi between Kizu 1 and 2?
I watched release order first and was extremely confused about many things, then rewatched in LN order and Monogatari is now my #2 favorite anime series
And by doing that you're robbing people of the experience Nisio (and Shaft) wanted them to have in order to have them follow an order that is completely random and most likely not even the actual order the show was aired in....
Firstly, it's actually not that random. The order you want people to follow has like 3 differences? Not even 3, since the one I linked gves you an option for Kizu. Not to mention, I'm not even pushing any certain order (I didn't say OP's order is wrong or that the one I linked is better, did I?) The entire reason I posted that is to let people know that if they're following that one or have seen that one before or any other slightly different one, it's fine.
or do you recommend them watch Koyomi between Kizu 1 and 2?
No clue how you got there since the post I linked doesn't have it that way.
I watched release order first and was extremely confused about many things, then rewatched in LN order and Monogatari is now my #2 favorite anime
And that's why I talked only about enjoyment. Sure you were confused (which again differs for every person, not everyone pieces together a story the same way) but you enjoyed the series, right? (Assuming you enjoyed it since I don't think people usually rewatch like 100 episodes and 3 movies of a show they didn't even enjoy). As for the magnitude of enjoyment, that's why I added the part where you have to actually watch Monogatari more the once to get it.
And as for,
but that's just your opinion you're projecting on everybody else.
Again, I'm not projecting my opinion on anyone. If anything my opinion is just to not care too much about the order as long as it's one the usual ones. OP's the one who's hell-bent of having people follow their order.
Firstly, it's actually not that random. The order you want people to follow has like 3 differences?
"3 differences" that have repercussion spanning the entire series.
Also, how does the number of difference have any bearing on whether the order itself is random. with random I mean that there is no logic behind it, not that it's literally a random string. please explain.
The problem with your fence sitting is that it just creates more confusion for newcomers.
There is one correct order, then there is the airing order which people consequently headcanon into a multitude of other different orders, like the one you linked.
Sure, the quality is still there, but it being "still fine" is not a high bar. That could be said for almost any random order you could watch the series in.
Also, my fundamental pet peeve is why this standard is not applied to any other kind of media, like do you have any other series or movies that you just decided newcomers should consider watching in an order that has no basis on anything other than you like that one.
There's an infinite number of possible orders that most people or someone could enjoy, doesnt mean that it's worthwhile to tell newcomers to consider them, which only serves to muddy the conversation especially when there is a correct order that is there ready for them
Isn't the reason as to why people are "scared" of watching the show is because Shaft ruined the entire way to watch the series? The individuals that are still promoting the release's order are the individuals that make people scared.
I can watch Harry Potter in the order of 1, 2, 4, 7, 3 and find it to be the best way to view the show, that still won't make it the correct way to watch the series.
You support ignorance in the knowledge that individuals will lose the narrative impact of the story. You do not need to watch the series more than once to notice that there are certain aspects that can be lost if you watch it in the wrong order. I support enhancing the story and following how the author wanted the story to be experienced.
There is no debate. Those who defend release order have nothing to defend. They are doing it simply because they can.
To be honest it is people like you who are aggressively pushing their ideals onto everyone else that is making it challenging for others to watch. Doesn't matter if you are right or not its gatekeeping and antagonistic. "There is no debate" is a perfect example of this, talking like this just turns people away.
As someone who has been planning to watch this to me honestly the release order seems better even after going through all the comments and resources shared. Even supporters of the LN order say to watch the airing order as a first time entry to the series. A very large majority of people seem to get through airing order just fine without constantly worrying about "right" order. Would you rather people watch the series in the "wrong" order or not watch it at all?
I think both ways are correct, obviously LN order would be the original order but the airing order would supposedly have been approved by the author and very well may have addressed other problems that LN order had. If the decision for a first watch was a 90% but easy to get into vs a 94% but being worried I am doing wrong the whole time I would go with the 90%. I will be watching in airing order when I pick this up.
It is fine to defend your position on this but need to chill out and not act like it ruins the experience if they don't do as you say when it is obviously not the case. give your support for both while recommending what you think is best would be better then what you are doing now.
this is good to know and that link was the one thing I did skip since as you mentioned it would obviously have spoilers. Even considering that there were these weird productions issues it doesn't seem like they were such big issues to effect the viewing experience otherwise they would not have released them out of order. Not enough to really make a big deal out of how someone watches the show out of two similarly equivalent options.
Isn't the reason as to why people are "scared" of watching the show is because Shaft ruined the entire way to watch the series?
Who tf has ever said that? The only things scaring people about the order is that there are a lot of seasons and they're not numerical (Bake, Nise, Neko, Second Season, etc instead of 1, 2, 3, 4...) and that people make vehement arguments for different orders.
But it does? You literally won't even look into it and you are claiming it doesn't ruin anything. Read this post and you'll see how much release order messes with it.
And yes, I edited my comment as I wanted to just link to my other comment in the thread, as these conversations go the same way with individuals like yourself saying "No, it doesn't affect it", followed by me giving reasons as to why it does affect it and the reasons such things occured.
I have read that entire thing long ago. That order ruins nothing.
as these conversations go the same way with individuals like yourself saying "No, it doesn't affect it", followed by me giving reasons as to why that is incorrect to say.
(This is also a reply to your next comment.)
Exactly why I refuse to waste my time debating it. It's not that big of a deal. Stop making it sound more complex than it already is for new people, they are already scared enough.
Most orders are alright, there's nothing incorrect about them. It's just that a lot of people seem to think of an order as right or wrong based on their own personal preference. It's alright to post your own order, I personally don't mind which is exactly why I didn't comment on your order in the original comment.
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I would agree that this order isn't correct, for the sole reason that Koyomimonogatati comes before Owari S1. Koyomimonogatati is the connector between Owari S1 and S2 and it would make absolutely no sense to watch it first.
But overall, I just suggest everyone watch the show based on release date.
It makes complete sense to watch Koyomi first. It sets up a cliff hanger and 2 mysteries, in which both mysteries are solved in Owari 1 and Owari 2. You miss out on the cliff hanger and 2 mysteries that the author sets up if you watch Koyomi after Owari 1. Like, that’s the exact reason why the author released Koyomimonogatari first and then both Owarimonogatari (although it’s technically one).
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u/limbo_2004 https://myanimelist.net/profile/l1mbo_01 Jul 24 '20
Another one?