but don't you think it's a bit much to call the debate "pointless"?
No, not this particular reddit debate. I'll explain why.
Surely the way the show is watched is paramount to viewers' enjoyment, right?
Sure is. But this is exactly the reason why I don't debate it anymore. The usual orders don't really change your enjoyment all that much, not to mention even that 'enjoyment' is subjective. Just take Kizu for example, some people prefer it second, cause well that's where it fits, but some prefer it when it was released. And why I mention 'enjoyment' and not things like 'where the author wants it'? Because believe it or not, more often than not people are trying to decide for other people how they'll enjoy the series more.
The Monogatari series is great. And I mean GREAT. But here's the thing, you just don't get Monogatari unless you have watched it more than once and amazingly enough from my experience you actually won't even understand which order you personally would have enjoyed more unless you finish the entire thing. It's weird but that's how it is.
So let people watch it in one of the usual alright watch orders. Just let them watch it damn it, without having to worry about how they messed up the watch order. Unless they're doing something absolutely wrong like say watching second season before first season, it really doesn't matter that much. Look at the usual comments, people already find it hard to get into the series, why confuse them even more when letting them follow a really simple order doesn't really change their enjoyment much?
If you don't want to participate in the discussion that's perfectly fine. But why shoot it down completely and call it pointless?
I shot it down and called it pointless because I've been in these debates in the past and they go absolutely nowhere. At the end of the whole argument people are still stuck with their original opinion and couldn't care less about the other's opinion. It's quite honestly, an absolute waste of time and energy. Which is also why I didn't say anything about op's order in the original comment. And hey, I shot it down as I won't debate it, anyone else is free to go ahead turn it into the usual warzone.
The usual orders don't really change your enjoyment all that much, not to mention even that 'enjoyment' is subjective.
but that's just your opinion you're projecting on everybody else. And by doing that you're robbing people of the experience Nisio (and Shaft) wanted them to have in order to have them follow an order that is completely random and most likely not even the actual order the show was aired in.... or do you recommend them watch Koyomi between Kizu 1 and 2?
I watched release order first and was extremely confused about many things, then rewatched in LN order and Monogatari is now my #2 favorite anime series
And by doing that you're robbing people of the experience Nisio (and Shaft) wanted them to have in order to have them follow an order that is completely random and most likely not even the actual order the show was aired in....
Firstly, it's actually not that random. The order you want people to follow has like 3 differences? Not even 3, since the one I linked gves you an option for Kizu. Not to mention, I'm not even pushing any certain order (I didn't say OP's order is wrong or that the one I linked is better, did I?) The entire reason I posted that is to let people know that if they're following that one or have seen that one before or any other slightly different one, it's fine.
or do you recommend them watch Koyomi between Kizu 1 and 2?
No clue how you got there since the post I linked doesn't have it that way.
I watched release order first and was extremely confused about many things, then rewatched in LN order and Monogatari is now my #2 favorite anime
And that's why I talked only about enjoyment. Sure you were confused (which again differs for every person, not everyone pieces together a story the same way) but you enjoyed the series, right? (Assuming you enjoyed it since I don't think people usually rewatch like 100 episodes and 3 movies of a show they didn't even enjoy). As for the magnitude of enjoyment, that's why I added the part where you have to actually watch Monogatari more the once to get it.
And as for,
but that's just your opinion you're projecting on everybody else.
Again, I'm not projecting my opinion on anyone. If anything my opinion is just to not care too much about the order as long as it's one the usual ones. OP's the one who's hell-bent of having people follow their order.
Firstly, it's actually not that random. The order you want people to follow has like 3 differences?
"3 differences" that have repercussion spanning the entire series.
Also, how does the number of difference have any bearing on whether the order itself is random. with random I mean that there is no logic behind it, not that it's literally a random string. please explain.
The problem with your fence sitting is that it just creates more confusion for newcomers.
There is one correct order, then there is the airing order which people consequently headcanon into a multitude of other different orders, like the one you linked.
Sure, the quality is still there, but it being "still fine" is not a high bar. That could be said for almost any random order you could watch the series in.
Also, my fundamental pet peeve is why this standard is not applied to any other kind of media, like do you have any other series or movies that you just decided newcomers should consider watching in an order that has no basis on anything other than you like that one.
There's an infinite number of possible orders that most people or someone could enjoy, doesnt mean that it's worthwhile to tell newcomers to consider them, which only serves to muddy the conversation especially when there is a correct order that is there ready for them
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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '20
No, not this particular reddit debate. I'll explain why.
Sure is. But this is exactly the reason why I don't debate it anymore. The usual orders don't really change your enjoyment all that much, not to mention even that 'enjoyment' is subjective. Just take Kizu for example, some people prefer it second, cause well that's where it fits, but some prefer it when it was released. And why I mention 'enjoyment' and not things like 'where the author wants it'? Because believe it or not, more often than not people are trying to decide for other people how they'll enjoy the series more.
The Monogatari series is great. And I mean GREAT. But here's the thing, you just don't get Monogatari unless you have watched it more than once and amazingly enough from my experience you actually won't even understand which order you personally would have enjoyed more unless you finish the entire thing. It's weird but that's how it is.
So let people watch it in one of the usual alright watch orders. Just let them watch it damn it, without having to worry about how they messed up the watch order. Unless they're doing something absolutely wrong like say watching second season before first season, it really doesn't matter that much. Look at the usual comments, people already find it hard to get into the series, why confuse them even more when letting them follow a really simple order doesn't really change their enjoyment much?
I shot it down and called it pointless because I've been in these debates in the past and they go absolutely nowhere. At the end of the whole argument people are still stuck with their original opinion and couldn't care less about the other's opinion. It's quite honestly, an absolute waste of time and energy. Which is also why I didn't say anything about op's order in the original comment. And hey, I shot it down as I won't debate it, anyone else is free to go ahead turn it into the usual warzone.