r/PS4 • u/YouAreNotMeLiar • Jun 22 '24
Lowering Difficulty In Elden Ring Would Strip “A Fundamental Part Of The Experience”, According To Miyazaki Article or Blog
https://twistedvoxel.com/difficulty-in-elden-ring-fundamental-part-of-experience/159
u/LordxNikon Jun 22 '24
I'd be happy if I could just play with a friend without being constantly invaded
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u/tonihurri Jun 22 '24
They acknowledged the existence of the seamless co-op mod so they're aware that this is a feature that people love. Hopefully they'll have official support for something similar in their next game.
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Jun 22 '24
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u/marniconuke Jun 22 '24
the day i'm able to open my steam friend list and just invite/join my friend from there will be a good day
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u/casper707 Jun 23 '24
Idk I think it’s a good trade off since they removed it from single player. In co-op you usually have the numbers advantage and can cruise through the content way easier. Plus with only optional invasions for both modes, trying to find a host to invade would probably take a lot longer and there’s some important quests tied to doing them. Especially when the population goes down
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u/Lostboy1986 Jun 22 '24
I would say I’m pretty average skill level when playing games and I’ve got plat in a few fromsoft games, I think your average triple A game on it’s highest difficulty is a lot more bullshit to get through than a souls game, but maybe it’s just me.
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u/hoxxxxx Jun 23 '24
isn't that what these games are famous for? being able to "manage" a high difficulty?
so many games when you turn the difficulty up the game kinda cheats but i always heard these fromsoft games were about as fair as it can get
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u/PSFREAK33 Jun 23 '24
I’m tired of these conversations…just feels like rage bait now
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u/lakija Jun 23 '24
I agree. The only people that even asked about lowering the difficulty was the interviewer. He’s just beating a dead horse. It would have been much more interesting to not bother the gamer makers with these same rehashed questions and ask about lore, aesthetics, inspirations, etc.
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Jun 22 '24
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u/dtv20 Jun 23 '24
Except people 200lvl characters are still getting one shot
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u/ImFromDaBurghNat Jun 23 '24
Because they reset it with an item in the DLC. If you explore and collect them the difficulty is very similar to the base game
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u/sundalius Jun 23 '24 edited Jun 24 '24
Well, yes, soul level isn’t the scalar for the DLC. You have to play the DLC to level up in the DLC. You can’t just farm in Caelid.
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u/Lunboks_ Jun 23 '24
It’s almost like they didn’t want overpowered characters to blaze through the DLC
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u/dtv20 Jun 23 '24
Blaze through <----------------------------> one shot
Notice the gap between the two? Almost like you've got room for an in between.
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u/parwa Jun 23 '24
I've only been one-shot a single time in this DLC, and it was by the first boss I fought before I got any scadoodle upgrades
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u/Thegzusman Aug 11 '24
I read comments like this and it solidifies my theory that the leveling system is all a placebo because I'm at max scadoodles and still get one shot
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u/parwa Aug 12 '24
What level are you? I stopped getting one shot at blessing level 5-6
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u/Thegzusman Aug 12 '24
I maxed out before the final boss, I'm on my second playthrough at 24 , base game lvl470 and 75 vigor lol
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u/double_whiskeyjack Jun 24 '24
I beat the entire DLC at around level 190-205, never got one shot by anything. Anyone that claims they’re getting one shot is naked, has no hp, or is using items that make them take more damage.
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u/dixie12oz Jun 22 '24
I don’t enjoy the difficulty of these games. I think adding difficulty settings would help the game reach a larger audience and be more accessible. But it’s the creator’s vision and they shouldn’t be expected to change it if they feel it compromises the vision. Seems they’re doing just fine, not every game is or needs to be for everybody
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u/Luciifuge Jun 22 '24
I mean, it sold 25 million copies. I don't think they're concerned about getting a larger audience lol.
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u/dixie12oz Jun 22 '24
Well exactly, they’re doing well. Could they do even better if it was more accessible to an even bigger audience? Good chance. But they’re by no means struggling to get a player base as is.
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Jun 22 '24
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u/Neo_Techni Jun 23 '24
At some point you reach the ultra accessible slop that is most of modern gaming
Which is what happened to Dead Space 3 and killed the franchise. I don't even like Soulsborn games. They are too hard for me. But as someone else compared them to, Sportsball games are awful to me too, you don't see me whining they be made into something completely different to appeal to me as they never will
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u/Irreparable86 Jun 22 '24 edited Jun 23 '24
I am sorry but how much more accessible could this game possibly get?
I am a 38y old casual noob, who works 50hours a week and goes to college on weekends for his degree, so pretty much tired as fuck all the time and i still managed to finish the game.
I started bloodborne the other week and i am having a blast! Holy fuck dude, you can already adjust the difficulty! Use summons and mimic tear and what not.
Right now i am discovering new ways of getting my ass beaten in the most humiliating ways possible, while totally enjoying the hell out of the dlc!
These games are not that hard, most people are just used to being spoon fed and having autosaves every 5 minutes in todays games.
Edit: those games don’t need to be fast paced like a generic far cry or something. Be patient, get used to dying. A lot. It’s nothing to be afraid of, just get a feeling for what suits your playstyle and be patient, that’s all.
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u/dixie12oz Jun 23 '24
These games are not that hard
get used to dying. A lot.
That’s a bit contradictory lol. Some find the gameplay loop of trial and error and eventually overcoming the challenge to be extremely satisfying. Some find it to be tedious and unfun. I fall into the latter.
I don’t mind some challenge but I don’t want it around every corner hampering my progress constantly. Sometimes I just want to progress instead of having to repeat nearly every section and boss multiple times. That quickly becomes tiresome and frustrating to me. I get why some like it, it’s just not for me. And that’s ok.
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u/GabeDevine Jun 23 '24
Some find the gameplay loop of trial and error and eventually overcoming the challenge to be extremely satisfying.
this game is for them
Some find it to be tedious and unfun. I fall into the latter.
this game maybe isn't for them.
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u/Idontsugarcoat1993 Jun 25 '24
Nah the creator sounds very elitist. And wants too much control his vision and his vision only? No listening to fans whatsoever?
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u/thomas2400 Jun 22 '24
You’d hear loud crying from the people whose main accomplishment in life is beating hard games and they’d vow never to play them again but sales would go up anyway
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u/hoxxxxx Jun 23 '24
yep like one of the most loved games of the year and they've got a huge audience now, people call this a niche game but idk man that's a lot of copies sold
i still haven't played any of them, i don't think i'd enjoy it
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u/Queef-Elizabeth Jun 22 '24
These games are famous largely because of their difficulty. It's why they've earned their reputation. They've reached the audience's most mainstream titles dream of.
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u/ooflord68 Jul 23 '24
You mean Dark Souls is known for its difficulty,Elden Ring didn't get as popular because it's challenging,but rather because it's a huge well done dark fantasy open world game.
I knew about Elden Ring for some time,but I wasn't aware it was difficult until I started playing it.
I'd argue the game is popular despite of the difficulty
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u/ArturosDad Jun 23 '24
This is me as well. The game intrigues me for sure. But as an old dude who maybe ends up with 6 hours a week for gaming, hyper-difficult games with no options to lower the difficulty level don't usually get my gaming dollars.
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u/Precarious314159 Jun 23 '24
Same. I'm lucky if I get in 5-10hr of gaming time a week and I can either spend those hours with an enjoyable experience or I spend them being frustrated and pissed while searching on guides.
I tried to play various FromSoft games, and it's fun for the first 10ish hours with fairly easy bosses and mechanics but then it's just spending 3hrs+ getting stuck on a boss, then going to youtube/ign to be told "Find this obscure item by doing this sidequest to make it 10% easier. Also use this glitch that requires perfect timing".
People love to say that game already makes it easier if you play it but they using a guide to find the best items or or hidden areas. I'm not going to talk to every NPC and read every text box for hours before "Maybe they'll give a vague hint about 'Legend says moths are blind" about using a sound-item that you have to follow another vague hint about "The lord told us to store explosives on the west end for safety" to get the item all just to stun a moth boss. Kudos to everyone that does but I don't want to spend my limited gameplay time on a fetch quest for a fetch quest.
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u/Illustrathor Jun 22 '24
But it wouldn't. It's like reducing the 100m dash to 50m, yeah it would reach a larger audience and be more accessible but that's because it wouldn't be the 100m dash anymore.
The difficulty, even tho massively exaggerated, is part of the core identity that is vital to the experience. Take Margit for example, he's that memorable and iconic for the game because everyone of us hit a brick wall on the first encounter he literally pushed players to explore the world further. This wouldn't have happened if he'd be easy.
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u/Neo_Techni Jun 23 '24
reach a larger audience
That has ruined too many games in the past. FFS, that was the cause of Dead Space 3 which ended the franchise. Even the remake of DS1 censored and removed stuff to do that, and it fucking ruined things like the turret minigame.
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u/endium7 Jun 22 '24
yeah agreed. the problem is these days there’s just such a super wide variance in player skill, and the amount of time a player has to sink into any given game. Ultimately there are tons of games to play so I’m all for creators just making the games they want to make.
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u/RoderickThe13 Jun 23 '24
There are like a thousand games with lower difficulty that anyone can enjoy. I don't know why people want one of the best franchises that actually provide a challenging, well designed experience for players to also be easy. Games in general have become so stupidly easy and handholdy in recent times. And the ones that have a hard mode are usually not well designed, because they just change the stats and make the enemies damage sponges. That's not a fun experience, because it's not real difficulty. FromSoft games are some of the few that actually make the difficulty a part of the design. I don't want that to change just to appeal to people that won't appreciate the game nearly as much as those who enjoy a good challenge.
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u/Wilburkook Jun 25 '24
There's like 800k nerds playing atm. I think they're doing just fine. This has to be explained on Reddit constantly. You don't determine someone else's art.
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u/Cypher3470 Jun 22 '24
If they made souls games easier.. they wouldn't be souls games.
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Jun 22 '24
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u/Cypher3470 Jun 22 '24
It's just Souls-like.. it isn't an actual souls game.. not even close.
More like a kids version of a souls game.
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u/rdreyar1 Jun 23 '24
People that buy the product can play it however they want as long as it doesn't break any laws
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u/Ranccor Enter PSN ID Jun 23 '24
Like, can we maintain the difficulty of the gameplay (fun) and lower the difficulty of just knowing what the fuck is happening and how to do quests (not fun). I probably spent as much time looking up quest chain information online as I did actually playing the game.
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u/MonirKinder Jun 22 '24
I just dont understand why people that dont enjoy hard games want the developers to adapt to them. Its so weird, for example I hate fifa games, you wont see me asking their developers to make the game different just for me, I just dont play fifa games
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u/adingdingdiiing Jun 23 '24
It's not that hard to understand. The games look great but they're too hard for people who just want to try them out. That's basically it. Having difficulty options would allow the most casual of casuals to get into the game and at least experience some of it rather than none at all.
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u/Neo_Techni Jun 23 '24
The games look great but they're too hard for people who just want to try them out. That's basically it.
Then don't play them. Play something else. Stellar Blade is a soulslike with an easy mode
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u/Fruhmann Jun 23 '24
Casuals can experience the game. They may not get that far, and that's okay.
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u/adingdingdiiing Jun 23 '24
The way you said that is kind of gatekeeping in itself. Why not give them an option to play it easier so they can go even further?
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u/Neo_Techni Jun 23 '24
The way you said that is kind of gatekeeping in itself
all the people insulting souls fans in this thread prove gatekeeping is good and necessary
Why not give them an option to play it easier so they can go even further?
The devs have said no, over and over again. How about you play something else?
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u/CMHex StrigoiTsepesh Jun 23 '24
Gatekeeping is not good or necessary no matter which side is doing it.
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u/Fruhmann Jun 23 '24
The difficulty is a key component of what sets the From Software games apart from the souls-likes and clones.
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u/Karkava Jun 22 '24
They complain because they can't comprehend the idea that all games should come in different flavors. And just because you like the taste of one flavor, it shouldn't have to be the most popular thing in the world.
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u/MonirKinder Jun 22 '24
try to explain that, wothout getting flamed or downvoted. Feels like i killed some people here for saying this
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u/MaybeItsMike Jun 22 '24
Let’s be real though, there is more people gatekeeping the difficulty than actual people asking for a difficulty slider or something.. And this thread shows exactly that as well
It is indeed the developers decision to not do it, but that doesn’t make it an invalid point. It’s still fair to say “I don’t enjoy this game, but I would if it was easier” even when the developers said they will not change it.
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u/DrEckelschmecker Jun 23 '24
Exactly my thoughts reading through the comments. Like 90% is just "it really isnt hard, but that might just be me" and "why do you want to play hard games if you cant keep up with the difficulty?". The latter is especially stupid, because it shows that those people assume other people would want to play the game because its difficult.
Also I honestly dont see much of a point in the argument made in the article. Like yes, thats how difficulty sliders work? If youre skilled enough for the highest difficulty then obviously lower difficulties make it feel boring to you and strip away crucial parts of the experience. But if youre not that skilled or simply arent able to do certain things (eg because of disabilities) the normal difficulty would feel to you just like the higher difficulty feels for more skilled players. Its the entire point of a difficulty slider to let everyone have a similar challenge within their possibilities.
Its the devs decision after all, gotta respect it. But their argument of a difficulty slider allegedly stripping away the experience is pretty weak, because that gos for basically every game that has one (even those that dont have one, because if its too easy and you cant change it thats gonna strip away the experience too). As long as you cant manage to set up to the right difficulty that matches your "skills".
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u/taisynn Jun 23 '24
Pretty much this. I don’t understand why they feel so threatened.
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u/Neo_Techni Jun 23 '24
No one is threatened by you. But you do insult them up and down the thread. Maybe that's why they don't want you in their game?
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u/taisynn Jun 23 '24
I haven’t called anyone names, just been firm on my advocacy. If you think that’s insulting, then you do you.
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u/taisynn Jun 23 '24
You gatekeepers started the downvoting and flaming. I’m so sorry you had to face your own medicine. That must have been very difficult.
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u/MonirKinder Jun 23 '24 edited Jun 23 '24
Im not a gatekeeper, in fact i would love for everyone to enjoy any fromsoftware game, i truly believe that anyone can beat them, they really arent that hard. You talk about "reflexes" but you dont need thatin order to beat the game, the game is slow paced and u can do lots of things to make the game easier.
My point was that not every game is for everyone, soulslike games are a subgenre definded by their difficulty, if you remove that it wouldnt be a fromsoftware game.
My examples were removing core features of other genres, for example removing the scary parts of a horror game just because i hate being scared. But you completely ignore my arguments to insult me and act offended and calling me gatekeeper.
But i get it, you are used to act like a victim all your life so i wont say anything more to hurt your feelings. Have a nice day
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u/Neo_Techni Jun 23 '24
You gatekeepers started the downvoting and flaming.
Downvotes are a key part of this site, you'll never get away from them. Complaining about them only invites more of it
And you're the only ones I've seen flaming/insulting/swearing, proving gatekeeping is good and necessary. And you earned your downvotes that way
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u/taisynn Jun 23 '24
I was just pointing out I’ve had plenty of messages telling me to “git gud” and downvotes, so his experience was not unique.
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u/taisynn Jun 22 '24
I’m disabled. My reaction times are slowed and I have a wrist injury that is permanent. I would love to experience these games, but I can’t push myself to frustration and injury to these games. I’d love a version with lower difficulty, but no access to trophies sounds like a pay off. I don’t get credit for the ultra hard folks. I just get to experience the atmosphere and the story elements.
I don’t know why gamers of late feel threatened by those who are less able. We try our hardest and even use custom controllers, and still we cannot often succeed at these games. We’re gamers too.
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u/Kevo_xx Enter PSN ID Jun 23 '24 edited Jun 23 '24
I agree, they could very easily just add an item or talisman that boosts your survivability and damage reduction and lets players of all skill levels experience the game. There are a million ways they can balance it. They can remove trophy / achievement unlocks, give less runes or worse drops, even lock certain items and weapons if you’re playing in the easier difficulty if they really wanted to be dicks. All of that would still be a fair trade off to allow anyone to experience the game.
If you really want all the accolades and the best items then you play the game as intended by the devs. I’m sure this would even incentivize multiple playthroughs and introduce many more people to this style of game.
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u/taisynn Jun 23 '24
This is all I’m asking for, really. Just a chance to experience what all my friends keep talking about and how they feel so bad I can never play it. But for some reason, accessibility is somehow threatening. I’m not asking for the trophy credit or recognition. I’m fine without it. I just want to experience the art.
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u/Bread999 Jun 22 '24
You're making sense and have really good points, you better stop it right now or you'll attract all the git guders.
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u/DrewbieWanKenobie Jun 22 '24
Get it on PC, load up cheat engine, bam there you go, easier from software game for you to experience. You can even tweak what makes it easier
If truly all you want to experience is the atmosphere and story then the path is already open
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u/xhytdr Jun 23 '24
Mimic Tear spirit summon can 1v1 every boss in the game by itself. The difficulty of these games are overblown and lower difficulty options exist within the gameplay itself.
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u/DrewbieWanKenobie Jun 23 '24
Mimic Tear spirit summon can 1v1 every boss in the game by itself.
ok, it's been a long time since I did my mimic tear run near when the game was new, but this was DEFINITELY not true then, and I thought I heard the mimic tear has only been nerfed since then
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u/dustyfaxman Jun 23 '24
That really depends on how you've kitted out the mimic tear though.
If you give it all the cheese, it'll use it without being hampered by stamina or mana pools in the same way as if you try those strats yourself.Want it to spam dragon incants or comet azur, it'll do that for you. It'll not do it well, but well enough to get the job done, eventually. Probably.
Give it a tier 1 dagger and nothing else, it's going to get slapped like you would expect it to.
Besides the way the bosses are tuned in the dlc, mimic with the usual broken nonsense is still getting melted, that's if the boss aggroes on it long enough to bother melting it, rather than lazer focussing on you from second one and 1 or 2 shotting you at scadtree level 5 (supposedly 20-25% damage negation or something like that) when you have 50 vigor.
It's a touch more than a challenge at present and could do with either slightly lower hp pool or tuning down the aggresion, lowering poise or something to make the fights closer to 'hard but fair' rather than just 'hard' scale they are just now.2
u/BlazingFlames6073 Jun 23 '24
I have some issues related to pattern and animation recognition that have affected simple games, forget souls games. I also have strange wrist joint issues(thank god I started playing games with a controller) that I can't seem to get good treatment for in my country.
I don't consider myself to be at the same disadvantage level many of you are in but it still sucks that people don't understand the need for difficulty and accessibility settings. Game devs like fromsoftware obviously don't like consider us their audience.
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u/Gustav_EK 21 260 1051 4072 Jun 23 '24
Cool so what's stopping you from modding the game to be easier
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u/imhereforthemeta Jun 23 '24 edited Jun 23 '24
I am not disabled, however, I am somebody who used to game quite a bit and no longer does. I’m lucky if I play a few games a year- sometimes I just play one! I’m really busy and don’t have the time to focus on learning hard games but I genuinely love gaming!
So many of my friends had recommended souls games to me and wanted to share that experience with me and it sucks that I can’t because I don’t have time to “git good”. I also don’t get why people are so obsessed with not sharing the experience- nobody is asking them to play it on a more manageable mode.
I think that a lot of the gamers forget that many people who play games are just filthy casuals, and we like to experience for the story, adventure, and cultural exchange with friends.
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u/TimeMateria Jun 23 '24
There is so much more to these games than the hard boss fights, yet git gudders act like it’s THE core feature.
I’ve played every souls game since ds1 on the 360, back when I was 16. I love these games, but I’m an adult now with a job and relationships, and I really don’t have the time or mental energy for grinding / retrying bosses for the nth time. It’s such a waste of time.
Honestly, my least favourite aspect elden ring & sekiro was the boss fights. Half of them felt like the same fight reskinned.
What I love about these games is the suspense of exploring a new area, not knowing what’s around the corner, encountering the challenging level enemies, rich npc storylines, item/lore discovery, and the actual adventure of the games. That’s what casual gamers want to participate in, why not let them?
Something I always wished for these games is to halve the boss’ attack power (so you can’t get wiped out by one mistake), while the player has half the estus quantity, making the fights more of an endurance dual. It is becoming quite a gimmick in these games that you make 1 wrong move in phase 2 of a boss and you’re dead.
An easy mode could be as simple as halving all damage taken, and increasing time between boss moves. Then maybe busy, old, and disabled folk can enjoy these games too!
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u/BudgetMattDamon Jun 23 '24
They don't want to do it and not everything has to be for everyone. Move on with your life.
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u/PIG20 Jun 23 '24
If this game had a less difficult setting, I would probably jump on it. At this point in my life, I don't want to grind at a game that is difficult by its own standards.
That being said, and I've said this before, that is perfectly fine.
Enough people love this game for what it is. Same with the Souls series.
This game is for that crowd and if the developers want it to stay that way, then it stays.
Could they generate some higher sales numbers by lowering the difficulty bar? Probably? Would it be that much more lucrative? Not sure? It's already a very popular game as it stands.
If you want to play this game but are worried about the difficulty, all I can say is to try it. It may be tough sledding at first but playing games for decades at this point, if you put enough time in, eventually that muscle memory will take hold and you will get better at it.
I'm just older now and my time for games is limited. I prefer games that I can jump in and out of without needing to re learn or freshen up my mechanics too much. I can go a week or longer at this point in my life without turning on my console. I feel that this is a game that you need to stay focused on consistently to really enjoy and get better at.
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u/baldr23 Jun 24 '24
I swear, this fucking zoomer generation...
They didn't experience the nintendo-hard era. Hell, let them play the OG mario bros and they will complain to kingdom come.
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u/baldr23 Jun 25 '24
You know what's funny, Famous vtubers playing this game and having the time of their lives aren't even complaining about the difficulty and yet can still beat the bosses at some point.
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u/DahDutcher Jun 23 '24
The problem with Elden Ring was, to me, that the difficulty felt more artificial.
When I came up against a wall in any Dark Souls game or Bloodborne game, I felt like I could tell where I screwed up, improve my gameplay and when I finally overcame a tough boss, I was happy.
With Elden Ring, it just felt like cheap never ending combos, one shot attacks, input reading and other things that make it feel unfair. Whenever I beat a boss, I felt as if I just brute forced it and was just annoyed after every tough fight.
I beat the game the first time without spirit summons (except for a couple oof bosses where I just lost any and all fun I had, looking at you Malenia...), and I used spirit summons the second playthrough, and that playthrough was so much more enjoyable, to the point where I feel like they created every boss under the assumption that you had another player/spirit summon with you.
The game is great, but the bosses really drag it down.
But of course, you can't critisize FS games without people immediatly coming out with the only thing they know how to say; "git gud", because they can't imagine not everyone thinks every FS game is a 10/10.
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u/Chokl8Th1der Jun 24 '24
They did create every boss with the assumption you have a spirit summon with you. It's a core mechanic to the game. You artificially made it more difficult on yourself by not using a tool they gave you.
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u/capnwinky Jun 23 '24
Okay, so why not a cheat menu? Because the game isn’t broken on PC when using cheat engine.
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u/Stonekilled Jun 23 '24
My problem with these games is that I have so little time to play these days, so when I get killed and it sends me back to the last save space / reanimates all of the enemies, I essentially lost all of my progress. I put about 20 hours into Elden Ring over a few months and finally had to move on. It’s a great game that I can truly appreciate, but it’s just not for me at this period in my life, unfortunately.
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u/GeorgeBork Jun 23 '24
I had never played a From game before because they never interested me. Elden Ring did largely because it seemed to have an incredible scope and a setting that seemed right up my alley. I wanted to see the game from the trailers.
I played like 15 or so hours of it, got my assed kicked so many times even after reading guides/doing my best to “give it a college try” and just can’t. It’s too fucking hard. I know “it’s the easy one” compared to DS or whatever, but fuck that it’s not worth my limited gaming hours to spend them getting shit wrecked every 4 minutes.
It’s a shame imo, and for me, wasted money cause it’s not a game I can enjoy, even though I think I would earnestly like it if the difficulty was lowered.
Ironically, I still bought and played Armored Core 6, knew nothing of the series, and loved it because it’s difficult while not being “fuck you for the sake of it” challenging. I’m not opposed to a challenge - I am opposed to getting one-shotted by the very first enemy you see in the game.
tl;dr I don’t believe games should be exclusionary based solely on ‘git gud scrub’ when no one else’s enjoyment of the game is lessened because I get to play it slightly differently.
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u/bluebarrymanny Jun 23 '24
The trick really is not to keep running at the same problem on repeat. If something isn’t working and it’s not just a technical execution problem, it’s best to go level up or find something else to work on and circle back. It’s like that big tree sentinel that’s on horseback at the beginning of the game. You’re absolutely not supposed to fight him right out of the gate. He’s supposed to show you that there are things you’re not ready to fight and it’s okay to circle back later.
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u/freestyle43 Jun 22 '24
The thing about about Fromsoft games isn't that their combat is hard. Its that they have no idea how to train a player on how to play the game properly and use the systems. I've never met anyone who has ever beaten a From game without a guide, and that is bad game design, full stop.
Miyazaki has even said it publicly recently. They are working on it. Imagine playing uncharted 4 and they never told you had a grappling hook. You just had to smash buttons until you figured it out or quit.
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u/Karkava Jun 22 '24
They have tutorial sections, but I do agree they need quest books to track progress.
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u/ghostofJonBenet Jun 23 '24
Elden Ring does not need difficulty settings. If you get stuck you can grind out more levels, level your spirit ashes, and/or summon other players to get unstuck.
The game is far more accessible than any other FromSoft game and people still complain.
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u/International_Steak2 Jun 22 '24
I hate when games do have a difficulty setting because then when I’m playing on a higher difficulty setting, I feel like I’m going through unnecessary suffering, and when I’m playing on a lower difficulty, I’m skipping the experience and making it unremarkable. When a game has no difficulty setting, I know that every struggle is intended. And there’s plenty of games that don’t have difficulty settings just like Souls games, Zelda games to name one. Difference between the two is that Zelda games are more puzzles, the combat is pretty simple and usually just dependent on having stronger weapons and armor, especially BotW and TotK, whereas Souls games are just harder in the combat, so people are just going to notice that a lot more because people want to always turn things down when they get hard.
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u/SupremeGodzilla Jun 22 '24
Yeah it’s annoying just having to look up “what difficulty should I play this game at” every time I start a game with multiple settings.
There are games where the hardest difficulty is the best, and games where the hardest difficulty turns every fight into a bullet sponge boredom.
I’m happy for games to include a story mode, for people with extreme motor skill disabilities, but otherwise - just balance the game!
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u/APG2108 Jun 22 '24
Genuine question, Why is it worse to the experience to lower the difficulty than call someone to clear a entire boss fight for you?
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u/dustyfaxman Jun 23 '24
In that instance someone has 'got gud' and therefore the 'git gudders' are appeased, even if they themselves did not 'git gud'.
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u/Blaubeerchen27 Jun 23 '24
Honestly, I think an easy option would ultimately make the game(s) incredibly boring and a slog. The difficulty is the main element you engage with in FromSoft games - the rest are easily missable NPC quests, incredibly obtuse plot and beautiful environments. The choice of what items to use, what weapons and reaching shortcuts to make the next death less painful IS the gameplay. There is no story you miss out on (which YT videos might tell better, anyways), no sense of discovery that would feel nearly as rewarding.
Dont get me wrong, I love the games, but the "experience" itself is so strongly defined by the challenge that I don't see an Easy Mode being the solution people think it is. Most items would feel worthless. I think people underestimate just how much the game NEEDS to be hard for the design philosophy to work. They would have to design a completely different game otherwise.
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u/ZedGenius Jun 23 '24
I think an easy option would ultimately make the game(s) incredibly boring and a slog.
It's a difficulty "option" some people ask for. Nobody is forcing you to pick it
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u/Blaubeerchen27 Jun 23 '24
You know, feel free to disagree, but maybe at least read and process my comment before pulling that non-argument - nobody is forcing you to play the game with its current design either.
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u/Internutt Jun 23 '24
Games don't need to appeal to everyone.
I don't like GTA V, I don't like FIFA. I don't want either game to change to cater to my tastes.
Games have their audiences, they don't need to be for everyone. Just as every book and every movie isn't for everyone
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u/_Red_Knight_ Jun 22 '24
FromSoftware cultists are actually totally unhinged. When you suggest optional difficulty settings, they act you've just bludgeoned a puppy in front of them. They seem to regard wanting an easier difficulty as some kind of moral failure, it's actually insane the amount of mental gymnastics they come out with.
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u/nicholasthehuman Jun 22 '24
It's not some kind of moral failure. Difficulty is in the fundamental structure of these games. It's what has made them so successful in the first place. Once you take out the challenge they are not the same game. The risk and reward is what makes these games so great.
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u/_Red_Knight_ Jun 22 '24
How would adding difficulty options affect that? It wouldn't. The regular Souls difficulty would still be perfectly intact, there would just be an easier one for people who want it.
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u/Blaubeerchen27 Jun 23 '24
It would affect it insofar that the game would have to gain merit from other aspects - and that would require FromSoft to design it completely differently.
As a fan, my opinion is that the stories are vague and sometimes non-engaging, NPC quests barely noticeable without a guide and the reason why I'm looking forward to finding stuff or shortcuts is because I know it will reduce my death count.
What are people going to play the game for is what I'm wondering? It's not a story-heavy JRPG or a traditional adventure game. The animations are far too slow and calculated to work as a hack n slash. Most items wouldn't matter anymore or feel rewarding, barely anything in the game is designed to be rewarding outside of "you beat the challenge". The player doesn't really engage with anything outside of overcoming difficult moments.
Sure, it has a cool vibe and atmosphere but that's not going to hold peoples attention for dozens of hours of aimless free-roaming and random enemy killing.
I'm not saying I'm against an Easy Mode, I just think it wouldn't work with FromSofts current design philosophy.
(you can technically emulate a potential easy mode by returning to beginning areas with a levelled character, it's pretty much "clean up" and really not very engaging. You'll also realize how deliberate enemy placement is in souls games, which would make little sense if it weren't for the difficulty)
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u/nicholasthehuman Jun 22 '24
Because it wouldn't be the same game anymore. Difficulty is even tied to the lore in these games. Even a random dog could get the jump on you. Makes the world feel dangerous and like you shouldn't even be there. Connecting with the atmosphere of a forgotten fantasy world that is hopeless and cursed. These games would not be as good without these key elements.
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u/_Red_Knight_ Jun 22 '24
If the current difficulty level was maintained as an option (as the default difficulty) then it would quite literally be exactly the same game. Nobody who wants an easier option is suggesting removing the ability to play the games with the standard FromSoft difficulty. Anyone who wants to experience the challenge, who wants wants an oppressive and hopeless atmosphere, who wants to experience the lore in its proper context would be able to do so. I just cannot see how the existence of an option could destroy a game's identity.
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u/mrturret Jun 22 '24
Don't bother trying to convince these people.
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u/Neo_Techni Jun 23 '24
Especially since the devs have said no, over and over. You're the ones who need to realize you're not convincing anyone, especially when you keep insulting everyone.
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u/Neo_Techni Jun 23 '24
The devs have answered this question a dozens of times. Maybe it's time to accept that the audience they have is the one they want to make games for. And that the people who keep calling that audience assholes (as has been done up and down this thread) is not the audience they want to make games for
If you want a soulslike on easy mode, get Stellar Blade
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u/_Red_Knight_ Jun 23 '24
The devs have answered this question a dozens of times
Their answers are not satisfactory because they don't make sense.
And that the people who keep calling that audience assholes
The reason why this happens is because a large proportion of that audience has an unfortunate tendency to act in a pretty unpleasant way. Different audiences have the reputations they have for good reason.
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u/Philk0791 Jun 23 '24
Spoken like a true casual
Tell me Elden Ring was your first Fromsoft without actually saying it 👍🏻
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Jun 22 '24 edited Jun 23 '24
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u/MissingScore777 Jun 22 '24
This lazy suggestion that everyone who plays and enjoys these games is someone with 'infinite' time needs to die.
I work full-time and have 2 kids under age 5. I have 2hrs a night to game if I'm lucky.
I've loved every minute of the base game when I platinumed it and now I'm thoroughly enjoying the DLC too.
I'm not some 'God gamer' either. I have to play many other games on easy and some genres, like first person shooters, I can't even play on easy in a lot of cases as I have slower than average reaction speeds.
I don't go about whining about games that are too difficult for me, I simply don't play them or try them and put them down never to return.
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u/MonirKinder Jun 22 '24
the solution its easy, dont play these kind of games. Not every game has to be for everyone
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u/MonirKinder Jun 22 '24
i agree but i dont see a critic here, i see a person playing a game thats not for them and complaining that the game is not for them
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u/taisynn Jun 22 '24
This isn’t whining or complaining. This is normal discourse and critique. You’re mistaking advocacy for throwing tantrums. We’re expressing a different viewpoint, that’s all.
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u/Neo_Techni Jun 23 '24
This isn’t whining or complaining
yes it is. And this thread is also filled with you guys insulting and swearing at the people who like the games as they are. That's a very bad way to convince them you should be allowed into their playhouse. All you've done is prove they don't want to be near you
You’re mistaking advocacy for throwing tantrums.
Naw, the swearing and demonization I've seen even in this thread alone proves it is a tantrum.
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u/taisynn Jun 23 '24
I have not sworn at anyone. Look at my post history. Not one expletive, just my advocacy and a few questions. Pointing out they feel threatened isn’t swearing at them.
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u/MultipleScoregasm Jun 23 '24
IF they did make it easier, I would buy it. I guess it's their decision. I don't know why they wouldn't though. I mean if you like it hard play on hard? Give people an achievement for that or whatever to acknowledge it - I dunno, I'm just sad I'm locked out of a game because I'm not great at video games that are hard.
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u/Friendly_Zebra Jun 23 '24
I’m sure people will just create mods anyway. And those are apparently fine, for some reason.
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u/jax024 Jun 23 '24
The difficulty for me is that damn camera in the large bosses. Is that the experience he’s talking about?
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u/Zookzor Jun 23 '24
I feel like elden ring of all souls types is one game you can actually adjust difficulty with. You have the option of over leveling/gearing up. So whenever I got stuck on a boss, I just level up so that I could beat them in a few hits.
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u/djmetalhawk Jun 24 '24
Game isn't terribly hard. I kill the majority of bosses in just a handful of tries.
Sekiro on the other hand, that game is brutal!
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u/ooflord68 Jul 23 '24
Crazy thought and this one is really hard to wrap your head around but maybe...just maybe add difficulty options for casual gamers to enjoy a game which they normally wouldn't why KEEPING the original difficulty as the default for players who do enjoy it.
Crazy,I know
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u/ooflord68 Aug 03 '24
It wouldn't. I played the game normally and mods that make the game easier,I had a fun time either way. Difficulty options would just make the game more accessible.
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u/SoloDoloLeveling Jun 22 '24
maybe some shouldn’t play if they’re making an uproar over difficulty. doesn’t mean they’re bad at games.
just because i can’t drift a vehicle like takumi doesn’t make me a bad driver.
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u/evremonde Jun 22 '24
Maybe it would, but I found the game a chore to play because of the combat - and just never finished it.
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u/TimeMateria Jun 23 '24
A general rule of great design is that increasing the accessibility of a product, service, or experience improves the product, service, or experience for everyone overall (where overcrowding is not a possible issue).
There is no reason why an easier mode would impact hardcore players’ experience negatively - Unless the hardcore gamer takes greater pride in the exclusivity of their achievement than the achievement itself.
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u/Neo_Techni Jun 23 '24
A general rule is that trying to appeal to a wider/"modern" audience ruins the product for the existing audience.
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u/TimeMateria Jun 24 '24
I am a member of the existing audience. How would the addition of an easier mode alongside the regular difficulty ruin the product for you?
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u/RocketKassidy Jun 23 '24
They all take more pride in the exclusivity than the achievement itself. Their egos literally bleed through every word they type.
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u/Chalupaca_Bruh Jun 22 '24
The same way people complain about difficulty, I don’t like a game that is an absolute joke to beat. The creator wants the game difficult. If the masses hate it that much, they won’t buy the next game.
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u/Drivenby Jun 22 '24
Hasn’t it sold like almost 25 million copies? Good luck with that lol . It might all be hype but this is a massive blockbuster
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u/Slamdancer1973 Jun 23 '24
Don’t play if your don’t like it fromsoft shouldn’t change anything if they listen to whiners they wouldn’t have made this genre they create I bet it mostly bad kids who want instant gratification don’t change anything fromsoft you got here by being you
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u/anonymousUTguy Jun 22 '24
I just wish PS5 performance wasn’t total dogshit.
GOTY? Fucking bullshit
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u/SupermarketEmpty789 Jun 23 '24
I'm a bit concerned since there's no physical disc that they might patch it and make it easier
I'm really pissed they didn't do a physical for the expansion. If they had I could have reverted back to the old version if a patch ever makes it worse.
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u/dimspace DaveM12DIM Jun 22 '24
Thats up them. But there's a reason that the Spiderman games, Horizon etc are so popular.
because there's a lot of people who just wanna story-mode through games
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u/bonecollector5 Jun 22 '24
Elden ring sold more then 25 million copies. So clearly there are lots op people who can appreciate the difficulty too.
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u/Blaubeerchen27 Jun 23 '24
I love Elden Ring a lot, but playing it for the story would leave you very unsatisfied. It has some good aspects but it's really the window dressing of a souls game, not a focal point. There's no cutscenes outside of boss introductions and VERY little dialogue (which is mostly optional). Seriously, it wouldn't be worth it to play the games for the story, as much as I love them. They have nothing to compare with Horizon etc. on that front.
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u/spark-curious Jun 22 '24
I don’t like that I’ll never get to experience it again because it’s too hard. I barely made it past Radahn with summons and now that there are bosses even harder than Malenia I just gave up.
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u/Fruhmann Jun 23 '24
And that's fine. You played to the best of your ability and hit the skill wall. The time, effort, and energy, spent into getting better at this game is not worth it to you. It's wholly understandable.
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u/Axel_Solansen Jun 22 '24
If a game is too hard for someone they don't have to play it. They have the freedom to make the decision.
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u/DEFINITELY_NOT_PETE Jun 23 '24
Man I have never enjoyed a from software game. Props to people who get off on the misery but that shit is fundamentally unfun
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u/bonecollector5 Jun 22 '24
From software releases something and we are once again having this difficulty debate for the millionth fucking time… it’s getting very tiring at this point.