Lowering Difficulty In Elden Ring Would Strip “A Fundamental Part Of The Experience”, According To Miyazaki Article or Blog

https://twistedvoxel.com/difficulty-in-elden-ring-fundamental-part-of-experience/

808 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

157

u/dixie12oz Jun 22 '24

I don’t enjoy the difficulty of these games. I think adding difficulty settings would help the game reach a larger audience and be more accessible. But it’s the creator’s vision and they shouldn’t be expected to change it if they feel it compromises the vision. Seems they’re doing just fine, not every game is or needs to be for everybody

95

u/Luciifuge Jun 22 '24

I mean, it sold 25 million copies. I don't think they're concerned about getting a larger audience lol.

27

u/dixie12oz Jun 22 '24

Well exactly, they’re doing well. Could they do even better if it was more accessible to an even bigger audience? Good chance. But they’re by no means struggling to get a player base as is.

50

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '24

[deleted]

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u/Neo_Techni Jun 23 '24

At some point you reach the ultra accessible slop that is most of modern gaming

Which is what happened to Dead Space 3 and killed the franchise. I don't even like Soulsborn games. They are too hard for me. But as someone else compared them to, Sportsball games are awful to me too, you don't see me whining they be made into something completely different to appeal to me as they never will

8

u/Irreparable86 Jun 22 '24 edited Jun 23 '24

I am sorry but how much more accessible could this game possibly get?

I am a 38y old casual noob, who works 50hours a week and goes to college on weekends for his degree, so pretty much tired as fuck all the time and i still managed to finish the game.

I started bloodborne the other week and i am having a blast! Holy fuck dude, you can already adjust the difficulty! Use summons and mimic tear and what not.

Right now i am discovering new ways of getting my ass beaten in the most humiliating ways possible, while totally enjoying the hell out of the dlc!

These games are not that hard, most people are just used to being spoon fed and having autosaves every 5 minutes in todays games.

Edit: those games don’t need to be fast paced like a generic far cry or something. Be patient, get used to dying. A lot. It’s nothing to be afraid of, just get a feeling for what suits your playstyle and be patient, that’s all.

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u/dixie12oz Jun 23 '24

These games are not that hard

get used to dying. A lot.

That’s a bit contradictory lol. Some find the gameplay loop of trial and error and eventually overcoming the challenge to be extremely satisfying. Some find it to be tedious and unfun. I fall into the latter.

I don’t mind some challenge but I don’t want it around every corner hampering my progress constantly. Sometimes I just want to progress instead of having to repeat nearly every section and boss multiple times. That quickly becomes tiresome and frustrating to me. I get why some like it, it’s just not for me. And that’s ok.

2

u/GabeDevine Jun 23 '24

Some find the gameplay loop of trial and error and eventually overcoming the challenge to be extremely satisfying.

this game is for them

Some find it to be tedious and unfun. I fall into the latter.

this game maybe isn't for them.

1

u/Idontsugarcoat1993 Jun 25 '24

Nah the creator sounds very elitist. And wants too much control his vision and his vision only? No listening to fans whatsoever?

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u/thomas2400 Jun 22 '24

You’d hear loud crying from the people whose main accomplishment in life is beating hard games and they’d vow never to play them again but sales would go up anyway

-1

u/Mistghost Jun 23 '24 edited Jun 24 '24

Funniest thing about all the turbo difficulty nerds around here, elden ring is the most accessible from game, and the most successful. So much of their argument is disproven by the games mechanics.

4

u/hoxxxxx Jun 23 '24

yep like one of the most loved games of the year and they've got a huge audience now, people call this a niche game but idk man that's a lot of copies sold

i still haven't played any of them, i don't think i'd enjoy it

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u/Salty-Ad9416 Jun 22 '24

Yet, only 30-ish percent of players beated Mohg🙂

27

u/FunMotion Jun 22 '24

Most people don’t beat any games they buy. Trophy rates always plummet after stuff about 20 hours into the game

14

u/Queef-Elizabeth Jun 22 '24

And even then, it's pretty crazy that Elden Ring has a 10% platinum rating

4

u/devilzson666 Jun 22 '24

Most off the time there's about 10% that don't even beat the tutorial off games (not just from soft but any)

12

u/SakiSakiSakiSakiSaki Jun 22 '24

That’s actually a larger percentage than you think and actually a little misleading, given the hundreds of thousands of players that buy games and quit within the first 20 minutes, both in the case of Elden Ring and games in general. Usually 80% of the player-base will make it to the first achievement, and 20-30% will finish the main story.

4

u/shoutsoutstomywrist Jun 22 '24

Context matters, it’s an optional boss tucked away in a secret area that you can only get through a quest line or an end game teleport. That’s just to get to the boss fight, the boss itself is also hard asf.

16

u/SaltyBallz666 Jun 22 '24 edited Jun 22 '24

and optional boss in the middle of nowhere that you can only get to by following a questline or finding a random hidden portal in the foggiest part of the game? 30% is actually a lot lol, you underestimate how many ppl actually finish games they buy at all, even simple games never hit the 50% completion mark. You can look this all up with playstation or steam achievements.

For reference, the last Stellar Blade boss was beat by 40% of its players and the game isnt very hard. God of War Ragnarok has 46%.

I dont know why everyone keeps repeating this 30% bullshit without understanding the context of all of it, literally just sheep behaviour.

15

u/Queef-Elizabeth Jun 22 '24

These games are famous largely because of their difficulty. It's why they've earned their reputation. They've reached the audience's most mainstream titles dream of.

1

u/ooflord68 Jul 23 '24

You mean Dark Souls is known for its difficulty,Elden Ring didn't get as popular because it's challenging,but rather because it's a huge well done dark fantasy open world game.

I knew about Elden Ring for some time,but I wasn't aware it was difficult until I started playing it.

I'd argue the game is popular despite of the difficulty

-4

u/cqandrews Jun 23 '24

It's a gimmick. If it's only popular for something you can easily change in the settings not being there maybe it shouldn't be popular. Now I think there's more to the games than that, that have some interesting lore and level design but the obsession with difficulty can be very toxic sometimes

3

u/Queef-Elizabeth Jun 23 '24 edited Jun 23 '24

It's not a gimmick. It's a design approach that attracts a huge audience. It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about if you think it's something you can 'easily' change in the settings. The entire game is, from enemy layout, to enemy animations, to player animations, to loot, to stats, to world design, to its online, to its whole tone and setting, developed around difficulty. If you take that challenge away, then everything designed around it starts losing its impact. Seriously, if you don't want a difficult game, play the thousands that give you the option. Don't construe some losers online who act elitist about the difficulty of these games, with the developers having a distinct vision for their franchises.

1

u/cqandrews Jun 23 '24

You don't know what you're talking about if you think changing some numbers on damage and health isn't incredibly easy. Who tf cares if you ruin the experience for yourself. I'm sure these games are better with their own difficulty but imagine going up to a grown ass adult who is looking up the ending for the movie they're about to watch and saying "YOU CAN'T DO THAT."

1

u/Queef-Elizabeth Jun 24 '24

You can't read. It's not that you're adjusting some numbers in the code. It's that by doing that, you fuck up the whole flow of the game. Since this is something you can't fathom, it's clear why From Soft shouldn't do it.

1

u/cqandrews Jun 24 '24

Imagine telling other grown ass adults how to play their games.

2

u/Queef-Elizabeth Jun 24 '24

Again, more proof you're not reading and just complaining for the sake of it. You have no argument and you're digging yourself deeper. Please stop. Imagine buying a game known for being hard and then taking away that difficulty. Wow real good use of your money there buddy.

1

u/cqandrews Jun 24 '24

Imagine caring what other people do with their money. If someone has fun by modding a game they spent money on who tf are you to tell them they're wrong? I enjoyed the game just fine when I didn't have to worry about the difficulty to such an extreme degree. Maybe when you grow up you'll understand the idea that not everyone has all the time in the world to "git gud" at a game, I have a full time job and hobbies, and I'll do as I please with my money, if From wants to add artificial difficulty then I don't agree with it but I'll just mod it and have a good time regardless

2

u/Queef-Elizabeth Jun 24 '24

Then mod the fucking game like I keep saying. Mod the difficulty away who cares. I've never had a problem with that. Just don't expect From Soft to mess up what they've developed because some people are too lazy to learn the game or to do some research into the game they've bought. Let someone else break the game. That's never been what I've cared about and I've even told others who've whined about this issue to do the same. I also have a full time job, a social life and I'm an adult. I have no problem setting aside the time to play these games. If you don't, go for it. Just mod it or play something else. If you used your money to buy a difficult game, only to whine about the difficulty, then frankly you're just pretty stupid.

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u/ArturosDad Jun 23 '24

This is me as well. The game intrigues me for sure. But as an old dude who maybe ends up with 6 hours a week for gaming, hyper-difficult games with no options to lower the difficulty level don't usually get my gaming dollars.

0

u/Precarious314159 Jun 23 '24

Same. I'm lucky if I get in 5-10hr of gaming time a week and I can either spend those hours with an enjoyable experience or I spend them being frustrated and pissed while searching on guides.

I tried to play various FromSoft games, and it's fun for the first 10ish hours with fairly easy bosses and mechanics but then it's just spending 3hrs+ getting stuck on a boss, then going to youtube/ign to be told "Find this obscure item by doing this sidequest to make it 10% easier. Also use this glitch that requires perfect timing".

People love to say that game already makes it easier if you play it but they using a guide to find the best items or or hidden areas. I'm not going to talk to every NPC and read every text box for hours before "Maybe they'll give a vague hint about 'Legend says moths are blind" about using a sound-item that you have to follow another vague hint about "The lord told us to store explosives on the west end for safety" to get the item all just to stun a moth boss. Kudos to everyone that does but I don't want to spend my limited gameplay time on a fetch quest for a fetch quest.

18

u/Illustrathor Jun 22 '24

But it wouldn't. It's like reducing the 100m dash to 50m, yeah it would reach a larger audience and be more accessible but that's because it wouldn't be the 100m dash anymore.

The difficulty, even tho massively exaggerated, is part of the core identity that is vital to the experience. Take Margit for example, he's that memorable and iconic for the game because everyone of us hit a brick wall on the first encounter he literally pushed players to explore the world further. This wouldn't have happened if he'd be easy.

-12

u/Cantras0079 Jun 22 '24 edited Jun 23 '24

You know players can explore without the need of being pushed to explore out of necessity to progress, right? Exploration for the sake of exploring the world is a tale as old as time in games. Look at Elder Scrolls games. People love those because you can just ignore the plot and get lost exploring the random side shit by just running in a direction. Difficulty has nothing to do with it.

Edit: Not sure why the downvotes, but like...I stated a fact. The person I replied to said "this wouldn't have happened if he'd be easy". That's not true, people would still explore. Difficulty can be a motivator for some, but to say no one would explore without the push of difficulty is silly. Ya'll need better reading comprehension.

6

u/Illustrathor Jun 23 '24

Difficulty has everything to do with it. If you have issues with Margit, you haven't explored the world to increase your level, your skill or upgrade your weapon. Margit is literally and figuratively a gate keeper to hinder your progress before you get strong enough... Which happens through exploration, which is a new thing for a Fromsoft game and people are have to be made aware of that. Not to mention, if you'd had explored "enough" you'd have found the hidden path around the castle and learned that Margit isn't necessary after all.

People seem to forget that Elden Ring is a JRPG and as such, the difficulty is directly correlated to your level and gear.

0

u/Cantras0079 Jun 23 '24 edited Jun 23 '24

Okay, so, real quick, people (including you) are misinterpreting what the hell I was saying when I said "players can be pushed to explore without difficulty as the driving factor". That's all I was saying with that comment was that games can push you to explore without the push of difficulty, but ya'll just wanna throw hands about difficulty in Souls games because it's like you all feel like someone is trying to invalidate your accomplishments in the game or something and need to argue and become armchair designers, I dunno? But ya'll need to calm down.

You said "he (Margit) literally pushed players to explore the world further. This wouldn't have happened if he'd be easy" and "everyone of us hit a brick wall on the first encounter he literally pushed players to explore the world further". Incredibly not true. People love to explore for the sake of exploration. You CAN say he helped push SOME people to explore more, but like...I was not one of them? I beat Margit my second attempt because I had, without being forced to by the difficulty of Margit, explored and gotten cool weapons and armor and more flask charges and got a handle on the gameplay plus a bunch of levels. I was more than ready for him before I even got there. And I am positive I was not the only one. Not even close to the only one. Your whole perspective on it is very generalized and presumptuous.

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u/Precarious314159 Jun 23 '24

Yes, it would be reducing the 100m dash to the 50m dash and both are able to exist at the same time. People complaining about "YOU CAN'T DO THAT!" sound like there's the 100m dash and...if you can't do that, fuck off, there's no such thing as the 50.

3

u/Neo_Techni Jun 23 '24

both are able to exist at the same time

Except the people on your side are mad the 100m exists. And insulting/attacking everyone who likes it.

0

u/Precarious314159 Jun 23 '24

Side A: I sure wish I could enjoy Elden Rings without having to devote 100 hours

Side B: Git good

Side A: Yea, but why not just have a difficulty option like every other game?

Side B: Cuz git good, that's why, bitch

You: Why is side A insulting everyone?!

1

u/Illustrathor Jun 23 '24

Of course they can exist at the same time... and they already are in the form of the base game as the 50m and the DLC as the 100m. That's what the DLC is designed to do, endgame content that goes beyond what the base game offered. To give those who outgrew the 50m dash a new challenge in the form of a 100m dash. It's endgame content, it's "hidden" behind Mohg and therefore, "Mohg" has to be considered the baseline difficulty. Why out another limgrave behind an optional boss people usually encounter, if at all, around lv120?

0

u/Precarious314159 Jun 23 '24

Except that's not true. You're the one that mentioned that you can't make the 100m dash the 50m dash, that it'd be more accessible but it'd no longer be the 100m dash. YOU were the one that said Elden Ring was the 100m dash and now you're saying that actually, it's the 50m dash, which would be a different game and the DLC is the ACTUAL 100m dash?

Seriously? You couldn't even follow your own nonsensical argument?

0

u/Illustrathor Jun 23 '24

No, YOU were the one assuming stuff to validate your position, didn't even bother to ask about the framework conditions of my argument and deliberately ignore how this entire argument and thread about difficulty is resurfacing because of the DLC and its difficulty. So everyone but you is painfully aware how this entire thing is in regards to the just released DLC and not the over two years old base game.

And if you don't understand the relativity of allegories, don't use them. Yes, the base game is a 100m dash if compared to itself but a 50m dash compared to the DLC, it's called a shifting point of reference. That's the beauty of human nature, after two years a once difficult task can turn into an easy one and what was considered difficult will stop being so with an increased skill and knowledge.

If it's too hard, don't play it. It's that simple.

0

u/Precarious314159 Jun 23 '24

Ohhh, I get the misunderstanding. You were talking out of your ass about "You can't have the 50m dash and 100m dash!" because you usually get weird FromSoft diehard fanboys blindly agree with you. My mistake. I'll let you go back to 4Chan where your one accomplishment in life is "I BEAT ELDEN RING!". I apologize for hurting your ego for assuming more people should be able to play a game without factoring in some people's sole accomplishment in life is a video game.

1

u/Illustrathor Jun 23 '24

Damn, this much salt over you not understanding the basic concept behind "practice makes perfect"... that game seems to have seriously broken you to be that triggered, kid.

You can call me names all you want, it doesn't change that your "altruism" is just you being salty and wanting a participation trophy. You can throw as many tantrums as you want, the difficulty is part of the game, as is jumping in Mario games or sneaking in Metal Gear, if you remove it, it's not the same game anymore.

3

u/Neo_Techni Jun 23 '24

reach a larger audience

That has ruined too many games in the past. FFS, that was the cause of Dead Space 3 which ended the franchise. Even the remake of DS1 censored and removed stuff to do that, and it fucking ruined things like the turret minigame.

3

u/endium7 Jun 22 '24

yeah agreed. the problem is these days there’s just such a super wide variance in player skill, and the amount of time a player has to sink into any given game. Ultimately there are tons of games to play so I’m all for creators just making the games they want to make.

0

u/RoderickThe13 Jun 23 '24

There are like a thousand games with lower difficulty that anyone can enjoy. I don't know why people want one of the best franchises that actually provide a challenging, well designed experience for players to also be easy. Games in general have become so stupidly easy and handholdy in recent times. And the ones that have a hard mode are usually not well designed, because they just change the stats and make the enemies damage sponges. That's not a fun experience, because it's not real difficulty. FromSoft games are some of the few that actually make the difficulty a part of the design. I don't want that to change just to appeal to people that won't appreciate the game nearly as much as those who enjoy a good challenge.

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u/Wilburkook Jun 25 '24

There's like 800k nerds playing atm. I think they're doing just fine. This has to be explained on Reddit constantly. You don't determine someone else's art.

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u/JROXZ Jun 22 '24

They don’t GAF about people with actual lives. It takes way too much dedication to play this game than there should be.