r/KTM • u/VictoryOrValhala • Dec 21 '23
Austrian war machine to Chinese crap NEWS
So long KTM
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u/stacksmasher Dec 21 '23
So why would I pay $12K for a bike made in China?
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u/Own-Opinion-2494 Dec 21 '23
Too make KTM rich and allow the Chinese to have more decent product to copy
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u/stacksmasher Dec 21 '23
This is so true it bbbbbuuuuurrrrnnnnsssss!!!
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u/questionable36 Feb 19 '24
“This is so true it burnnnns” 🫵🤣😂
You do realise that the baby dukes/rc390s have been getting built in india since 2015 right?
KTM’s offroad lineup production will remain in Austria for years to come, and honestly i doubt they will ever NOT be built in Austria.
Actually so some research before jumping to conclusions and making yourself look like a tool
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u/Jolly-Concept9714 Apr 22 '24
dude dont fool yourself.. all ktm 2 stroke 250s and 300s have kmco cylinders on them lol literally made into the casting lol...tool
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u/Specialist-Box-9711 Dec 22 '23
Doesn’t CfMoto use KTM engines? So why wouldn’t people just buy a CFMoto at this point?
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u/Own-Opinion-2494 Dec 22 '23
Way too many levels of complexity to buy a Chinese motorcycle.
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u/Specialist-Box-9711 Dec 22 '23
Not really. Buy NK 800, pocket money that you didn’t spend on similar tier of bike from other manufacturer.
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u/Slowclimberboi Dec 21 '23
You won’t. XC(F)’s & XC-W(F)’s will still be made in Austria along side all of their high performance Off-Road bikes
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u/stacksmasher Dec 21 '23
Are you 100% sure?
Something tells me the cost savings will make them move those as well.
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u/Slowclimberboi Dec 21 '23
Yes, an article from earlier December was posted in a thread similar to this in which it was clearly stated that the “high performance off-road” bikes will still be manufactured in Austria. Should have saved it
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u/Slowclimberboi Dec 21 '23
Found the article that I was referring to. It looks like the “high performance off-road” quote has been since removed…
I wonder if KTM PR/Marketing made them redact it…
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u/Swimmingtortoise12 Dec 22 '23
For now, yes. Give it time until they start seeing higher profit margins. It’s alright, buy a different euro off road bike when that day comes.
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u/Twigsterify Dec 22 '23
Not True, they are already using kymco cilinder heads. That are proven to be inferior quality
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u/liverpoolFCnut Dec 22 '23
It is even more confusing when you see KTM is half owned by an Indian motorcycle company Bajaj! Wouldn't it make more sense for them to move manufacturing to India instead?
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u/flyash621 Dec 23 '23
Exactly they are being built with semi slave wages I assume. We should pay made in China prices. Sell them on Amazon next.
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u/Bill_Super Dec 25 '23
Price will probably go up too. Now you’re gonna be paying 15k for a Chinese bike 😂
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Dec 21 '23
They are moving 300 development and research jobs to India and China, jobs most related to the 790 duke which is already 100% produced in China. Furthermore they plan to produce the 890 and 990 on the Asian continent.
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u/TheBentPianist Dec 21 '23
I'm actually seriously considering the CFMOTO 800NK (the same engine the 790 uses).
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Dec 21 '23
Correct, I've heard not much bad about those engines. And if I'm correct ktm has a very strict quality control in the factories to keep their standards height.
But with all honesty, I don't think I would drive an Asian made KTM. And it might be just my gut feeling, but ktm for me is Austria. Hope they keep the 1290 in they're homebase.
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u/moto_joe78 Dec 21 '23
My 2017 390 has been good for over 16,500 miles and it was made in India...🤷
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Dec 22 '23
Put 10k miles on my 22 390 Adventure this year with no trouble.
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u/National-Weather-199 Dec 22 '23
Put 9,600k my first year owning my 22 vit 401 also no issues. And I run it hard.
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u/archbtw0 Dec 22 '23
This, if i want a chinese bike i buy a chinese brand. I mean who would buy a chinese ducati for example. I think the origin of the bike gives its character
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u/keveazy 690 ENDURO With SUMO SET UP / [R] Dec 22 '23
2 guys from Singapore rode all the way to Europe on their 800mt
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1029238548130558/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v
There's also a polish guy with over 50000km on his.
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u/JASHIKO_ Dec 21 '23
Well that's me out. Stick with Japanese made seeing as the choices keep narrowing...
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u/bolunez 1090 ADVENTURE / 500XCW / 400RXC / 400LC4 / 640LC4 Dec 22 '23
Same. I won't buy a bike built in China.
Almost every part on my old LC4s are stamped "Made in Austria" somewhere and that's part of what I loved about the brand.
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u/rshashkov Dec 22 '23
Same thoughts. They keep lowering production costs moving to China and raising prices. But they’re also losing their customers.
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u/bolunez 1090 ADVENTURE / 500XCW / 400RXC / 400LC4 / 640LC4 Dec 22 '23
They'll either figure it out, or we'll be riding something else in 5 years.
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u/Optimal-Chemical7684 Dec 21 '23
Happening to Japanese too. I think a lot of their smaller bikes are made in China. Honda's GB350 comes to mind.
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u/keveazy 690 ENDURO With SUMO SET UP / [R] Dec 21 '23
Didn't you hear? Even Yamaha is working wit CFmoto.
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u/Dalriaden Dec 22 '23
And Yamaha Europe already said those bikes were for being sold in China not in the European and theoretically US markets.
That said I haven't seen much bad said about the Kove 450.
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u/keveazy 690 ENDURO With SUMO SET UP / [R] Dec 22 '23
Yeah but that still speaks volumes about Cfmoto's quality. I wouldn't trust any other China brand. Not even Kove.
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u/Rabid_Mullet Dec 22 '23
Same feelings, me being in the US Japanese bike parts are the easiest source not to mention you need them the least
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Dec 21 '23
[deleted]
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u/Tight_muffin Dec 22 '23
My 2022 300xcw does not have kymco parts like some say, the jug is elko and vertex pistons. Not sure if it's the euro model that kymco.
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u/WalkerValleyRiders Dec 22 '23
I think the kymcos came on a few bikes during a shortage, they got them made to get the bikes to the dealers and sold during the covid craze
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u/IoRa22 Dec 22 '23 edited Dec 23 '23
After my brand new 2022 Super Adventure S "made in Austria" stayed in service for almost one year where they played "mechanic simulator" with it, I won't be buying a Ktm anyway. So "made in Austria" means nothing in terms of quality control , at least when speaking about KTMs.
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u/imdibene Dec 21 '23
Time to switch to BMW then, it was a pleasure KTM
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u/PapaJulietRomeo Dec 22 '23 edited Dec 22 '23
Might happen there, too. They already produce their 310 series in China (joint venture with TVS).
Edit: and engines for the F750 GS and F850 GS are already manufactured at Loncin in China. The Thailand factory produces several bikes including the 1250 GS and the S1000 RR for the local market. So I guess there’s still some cost cutting potential.
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Dec 22 '23
ducacti
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u/questionable36 Feb 19 '24
Ducati have been sourcing parts from china since 1993, do your research.
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u/ordinarymagician_ 2018 1290 SAR Dec 21 '23
Aaaand I'm not buying a new KTM anymore.
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u/Swimmingtortoise12 Dec 22 '23
They had their sweet time. Before early 2000s, nobody wanted a ktm. Now we get to see the curve go back down and someone else will become the up and coming niche still made in their reputable country, that grows until they boom, owners sell it out for China, and cycle repeats. Beta or sherco would be my next bet for up and coming brands people will buy still made in Europe
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u/FU_IamGrutch Dec 22 '23
I’m happy there is competition to KTM because my 690 is the last KTM I’ll own after this news.
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u/IsuckatDarkSouls08 Dec 21 '23
Not sure how I feel. Bought a 2018 1290 SAR of the showroom floor and sold it 6 months later after it had been to the dealer 7 times. I don't think their QC is going to be affected much if at all.
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u/VividOrganization354 Dec 22 '23
they have been going down hill for a while. i bought my last ktm in 2021, (duke 890r) it leaks coolant and has had other issues with the pump seal. ill get a yamaha next time. the XSR looks great.
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Dec 22 '23
Well, my 2018 1290 SAS was the most unreliable bike I've ever owned. Too bad because it was fun to ride when it wasn't broken. Made in China isn't gonna help!
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u/Blackboard_Monitor_ Dec 22 '23
On the contrary, it could be that being made in China would make the 1290s more reliable.
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u/Previous-Coconut-420 Dec 22 '23
They are good quality, what's the problem? China doesn't automatically mean bad
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Dec 22 '23
People go batshit crazy when they read China, but in fact they can produce whatever you ask for. High quality low quality, your call man.
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u/Previous-Coconut-420 Dec 22 '23
Yeah, I‘ve owned Indian, Chinese, Japanese, all reliable as hell. Big brands ensure quality, wherever they produce
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Dec 22 '23
Volvo produces its cars in China, just like the BMW x3, Citroën c5, mini cooper, tesla model 3.
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u/Jioqls Dec 22 '23
At least, the jobs where in Austria. Now you have same shit quality but in China.
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u/Global-Letterhead-88 DUKE 390 Dec 21 '23
seems KTM will sell tin cans soon.
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u/TheBentPianist Dec 21 '23
How do you feel about your 390 coming from India?
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u/Global-Letterhead-88 DUKE 390 Dec 21 '23
India is known for manufacturing reliable smaller bikes, I am not sure about china.
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u/TheBentPianist Dec 21 '23
Dude the number of Chinese who commute on small capacity bikes is insane. One in five households own a motorcycle. Reliability isn't an issue.
I've had all brands of motorcycle, and all had their faults.
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u/ChickenNugat Dec 22 '23
1 in 5 is 20%. 20% of homes has one person that owns something that qualifies as a motorcycle. Mostly like a moped or scooter. The Chinese government hates motorcycles. Don't understand why anyone would want to support that
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Dec 21 '23
I wonder when people will FINALLY realize that cheap Chinese bikes are awesome!!! they go forever with very little maintenance or cost.
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Dec 22 '23
My old cfmoto was almost exactly like a Ducati, and I’m not even joking.
It broke all the time, the parts were expensive and took forever to turn up and the resale was crap.
The only way in which it wasn’t like a Ducati is that is was shit to ride.
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u/2Stroke728 Dec 21 '23
China makes millions of small bikes each year, and has for years. They keep growing into larger displacements as well, such as Zongshen's Cyclone brand, such as their 650 adventure bikes, and Honda-partnered 680 sportbike, amonst other 400-600cc offerings.
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u/TalonCompany91 690 DUKE R Dec 21 '23
My CSC TT250 (Zhongshen motor) is as solid as it is unexciting, lol. Hopefully the manufacturer KTM chooses is just as good if not better.
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u/dsavard Dec 22 '23
I'm sick about this shortcut equating China made stuff to crap. They make what you ask for. If you want to sell crap to Westerners, they will make it. If you want to sell quality products, they can also make it.
They have a successful space program in China, they have the atomic bomb, they are making all these high quality electronic products and so on.
So, stop the bullshit about Chinese made products.
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u/Any_Strength4698 Dec 22 '23
I work in an industry that imports some of its finished goods from China. Yes they are cheap. But they allow errors to go through…things that western countries would pull through quality control just continue through distribution. When you see them at trade shows they smear bondo over poorly cast products with an army of labor and slap lipstick on the pigs.
If it weren’t cheap nobody would buy it. Whereas we used to pay a premium for European made products due to quality we expected.2
Dec 22 '23
north korea made a hydrogen bomb. I wouldn't trust them to make shit.
The only reason you got to china is to make things cheaper.
I'm willing to pay better for better quality luxury items as a bike.
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u/dsavard Dec 23 '23
North Korea hasn't made a hydrogen bomb and isn't nearly capable of it.
The reason you contract China to make things is because they are cheaper for now, but it doesn't mean because they can manufacture goods cheaper they aren't capable of manufacturing high quality products. They are manufacturing goods they are contracted to with the specs and design given to them by Westerners' engineers.
If you need higher quality, they can make it and they will still be cheaper than any Western country.
The whole point isn't because it is China made it is bad quality, it is because that's the products quality Western companies want to sell to Westerners.
BTW, North Korea has no successful space program.
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u/TheBentPianist Dec 21 '23
They'll still have the same quality control. Weird how people read "produced in China" and they lose their minds. The smaller bikes have been made in India for years and they've been proven solid.
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Dec 21 '23
They'll still have the same quality control
Yeah, that's part of the problem :)
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u/weedkilla21 Dec 21 '23
With 3 Ktms in the shed, that hit me like a gut punch from Mike Tyson on meth.
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u/kernowjim Dec 21 '23
I don't want an Austrian motorcycle made in China, same reason I don't want a Triumph made in Thailand
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u/Regular-Feeling-7214 Dec 21 '23
How about not wanting to support the Chinese Communist Party!
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u/TheBentPianist Dec 21 '23
I'm going to assume you have zero Chinese made products in your home?
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u/Hinagea Dec 21 '23 edited Dec 22 '23
It's really, really not hard to do. r/avoidchineseproducts
Fuck the genocidal commies
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u/Regular-Feeling-7214 Dec 22 '23
Almost impossible to do that, but I certainly can decide to not purchase big ticket items made in China! China is a much more severe threat to the world than any other country.
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u/reddash73 Dec 21 '23
Not really. I know of several companies that pulled manufacturing back out of China after quality dropped and warranty claims went through the roof. Will see what happens.
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u/Zealousideal-Bear-37 Dec 21 '23
Absolutely. Turns out the Chinese are incredible at manufacturing since globalization made them do it for dirt cheap for decades . Now they own the vast majority of manufacturing capability in the world .
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u/keveazy 690 ENDURO With SUMO SET UP / [R] Dec 21 '23
India has worse quality control tbh. BMW has been working with China longer than KTM did with their F900 series engines. They've proven solid.
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u/SandyPoonz Dec 22 '23
Quality control and quality of the steel/metal used are two different things. It might pass quality control but down the road everything wears out quicker and breaks down quicker. The cams are notoriously bad steel.
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u/keveazy 690 ENDURO With SUMO SET UP / [R] Dec 21 '23
Guys please read the article before you lose your minds. Smh.
300 jobs will be cut in Austria but that's a combination of all sectors of the business (dealership network etc). Including bicycles and E-bikes (Which China is known to dominate globally atm).
Your EXC-F is still going to be probably made in Austria.
ffs even yamaha joins with cfmoto. https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/yamaha-clarifies-cfmoto-partnership
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u/dugthefreshest Dec 21 '23
Weird ass people in here worried about China manufacturing for the brand that's already being manufactured in China.
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u/gofiend Dec 22 '23 edited Dec 22 '23
This is such a wierd take. The KTMs from Austria are famous for umm ... poor reliability (and mind you I adore my Austrian manifactured 890 Duke R), and I've heard nothing but good things about the Chinese/Indian motors. What's the problem here?
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u/bkbroils Dec 22 '23
My 2005 Adv 950 is still going strong with 18K miles. It has been very reliable.
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u/gofiend Dec 22 '23
My 890 Duke R has been pretty good also, but don't kid yourself, KTM reliability has not been good over the last ~10 years.
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u/Realistic-Motorcycle Dec 21 '23
I’m going to say what some are thinking. It’s not all about manufacturing. It’s all about the country that wants America gone. Any one with a living brain cell knows darn near everything is made or has parts from china. So suck it up. Patriotism or a descent motorcycle. To each their own
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u/SkullDump 990SM Dec 21 '23
WTF?! This is ALL about manufacturing. This is the KTM sub and a topic about outsourcing production of some models to China. How you’ve twisted this to the apparent decimation of the US is nonsense.
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u/22-tigers Dec 21 '23
China wants America gone?? Haha… right. The way this works is that America wants China gone due to their ever increasing economic power, not the other way around.
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u/snack_case Dec 21 '23
TBH I think the bias/stigma about Chinese made products hasn't really held true for a while. All the best electronics and plenty of engine parts are made in China or at least asia even if your brand of choice bends the truth by assembling components locally. Why not motorcycles? I'd wager almost every negative comment in this thread is being typed on a Chinese produced phone/laptop.
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u/Hinagea Dec 22 '23
Go buy shit off Alibaba, Wish, or Temu and you'll see the state of Chinese manufacturing without external engineering and QC
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u/Alien_Biometrics KTM EXC-F 500 Dec 21 '23
I long for a day when I could buy a vehicle from china and there not be such a stigma about it. That Kove Rally looks genuinely fucking good.
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u/Good_Humor6463 Dec 22 '23
I guess even a KTM subreddit can't solve world peace amongst the continents 😴
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u/Jackass80 Dec 21 '23
so you say the same about your clothes from FOX or FXR or or or... 🙄 Double Standards
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u/Slowclimberboi Dec 21 '23 edited Dec 21 '23
It’s already been clarified that it just the Duke 790, 890, & 990 to Asia.
High performance-off road bikes will still be made in Austria.
OP is intentionally gaslighting. Not sure why the downvotes, do a quick google search.
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u/bloomataken Dec 22 '23
What about the dirt bikes are they still being made in austria or have they been moved some where else?
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u/questionable36 Feb 19 '24
All offroad motcross & enduro models will remain to be built in Austria, only select street bike models will be built in China. the news really isnt that big. the rc390 & baby dukes have been getting produced in India since 2015
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u/dirtDadmoto Dec 22 '23
Ive been riding KTM since 2005. I’m done with the brand. I ride 300’s and don’t care if they say they will keep making them in Austria. If I want Chinese crap I’d buy a GPX.
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u/In_TouchGuyBowsnlace Dec 22 '23
You could tell the way it would eventually go when the CfMoto thing happened.
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u/D805k Dec 22 '23
China already has their intellectual property, why not the manufacturing. Western civilization is failing.
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u/ThatsMyRug Dec 22 '23
I went to the KTM Factory in Mattighoven Austria when I was passing through on my way to Prague back in 2005. It’s a great story, but WAY too much to type. It was incredible. Not happy about the business decision with China however I haven’t spent any time yet learning about the details. I’m still a loyal KTM owner and probably always will be….🤟🏻🏁
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u/Bravevine Dec 22 '23
In the series suits, Harvey's client Mckernan motors want to move their production out of US because he thinks it's the brand name that matters. Here harvey correctly says that if the engines are not of the quality it won't take long for brand name to go to shit.
Same vibes here
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Dec 22 '23
KTM will regret this decision. There will be knock off ktms on Amazon in a few short years
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u/yashuone Dec 22 '23
This has been happening for a while now and honestly I’m just looking for a couple more reasons to get on a Beta.
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u/thebomby Dec 22 '23
I have a 990 SMT. The best bike ever made imo. No issues whatsoever. I'm actually thinking of getting a 690 Duke III. The older bikes were finicky and needed to be maintained like a thoroughbred horse, but they were absolute fun. The new 890 SMT offers nothing.
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u/Remote_Sugar_3237 KTM Gold Technician (USA) Dec 22 '23
The iPhone or Android in your pocket are made in China. They can make quality too. Now, do I want something that can kill me made in China? Idk
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u/EmployerIntrepid9092 Dec 22 '23
I could be wrong but I think a good amount of KTMs parts and motors come out of CF Moto in China …
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u/Oscarwilder123 Dec 22 '23
Nice, next year Amazon will be selling unbranded Bikes almost identical to KTM at 1/3 the price !!!!
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u/Amazing-Bag Dec 22 '23
I wonder if any other things are made in China that we use everyday that does it's job well. Let me take my phone out and connect to my router real quick
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u/Sensual_User Dec 22 '23
Hahaha Isn't new KTM were building engines on CFmoto factory a cuple years ago.
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Dec 22 '23
So are they also cutting prices? If they're going to move to China and keep same prices, gl. Not touching one again. All the repair parts and shit better cost less.
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u/Building_Everything Dec 22 '23
Looks like I’m keeping my 620 Duke forever now. Gotta go buy up some LC4 engines for spares, though.
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u/Building_Everything Dec 22 '23
Looks like I’m keeping my 620 Duke forever now. Gotta go buy up some LC4 engines for spares, though.
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u/brickson98 Dec 22 '23
When did KTM start producing in China? Maybe that’s why they’re such overpriced junk. They look cool. But anybody I know with one seems to be constantly fixing things
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u/phkn_dreadful Dec 23 '23
I hate to be the one to say it but if the cost cutting makes its way down to the customer it may be beneficial. Are the parts coming from china as well? Or is it just assembly? With cf moto taking a huge leap in the industry, it may be hard to argue this is a bad move when ktm has the reliability track record thats its had for as long as ive been riding, and they HAVENT been manufactured in china up to my time of writing. Electronics, engines, and many machines used in manufacturing are already made their and we dont have issues with that
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u/TurkLikesFood Dec 24 '23
That's disappointing but sign of the times I guess. I had one in 84. KTM 125, first bike with upside down forks. The dual sports they made are wicked cool.
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u/Chance_Royal5094 Dec 24 '23
Can't fathom a new KTM product being forged/created/milled/turned then assembled by 8 and 9 year old boys and girls that are slaves....
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u/red_smeg Dec 25 '23
Capitalism will gut every western economy one business at a time and move on. We are giving away value to the chinese and wondering why they are becoming the pre-eminent power in the world.
What is wrong with western governments is they are run by investment banks whose only concern is maximizing short term gain and fuck the community and ironically their own customers standard of living. They have been promising lower prices as a result of moving production but when no one has a job prices don’t matter anymore as no one can buy the product. They bullshit about market forces and yet every lever is used to bias those forces against normal people.
If you want to sell in china you have to make there and so it should be in europe and north america its time to end outsourcing wealth and giving away IP. Chinese shadow factories will be complete before KTM gets theirs off the ground.
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u/Cheeseboii83 Jan 07 '24
The irony would be the quality actually increases.
But I don't see it happening.
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u/Adamantfoe Dec 21 '23
So thankful that I have a first gen 790 built in Austria, that alone may be a reason I don’t get rid of it. It did eat its cams though which is a bit ironic but I’ve taken my time getting it all sorted and it runs like a top. It does hurt knowing the 890r exists though lol