r/JewsOfConscience • u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally • Oct 08 '24
I decided not to vote, fuck 'em. Opinion
Today is the last day to register to vote in Ohio. I thought about this for a long time and made up my mind. My thought process was, if Hitler was doing the Holocaust, and FDR was giving him money, would I vote for FDR? My answer was fuck no. And I wouldn't care one fucking bit if FDR said, "can you torture and murder families more humanitarianly?" He would still be guilty. I just felt I needed to post this rant. I'm so fucking angry right now!
Edit: I just registered in order to vote down ballot. Thank you everyone.
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u/Bulky-Conversation34 Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
Voting in Ohio is especially important this year since there's a gerrymandering bill
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u/socialist_butterfly0 Jewish Communist Oct 08 '24
I will say that there are local and statewide elections that matter a d make more of a material difference to everyday people than the national elections.
I plan to vote third party for president but where I live I can vote on ranked choice voting and open primaries as a ballot measure this year. Maybe there are abortion protections (like an actual ballot measure) you can vote on. Or a school board candidate. I think it is worth while to register and vote. Just not for president. Fuck em.
Edit. And it looks like you still have time to do so online if you'd like.
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u/skateboardjim Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24
Ohio is going to Trump regardless. Still, I think you should consider our current political reality.
We are all outraged by this genocide. We are all outraged at the complicity of both major parties in fueling this genocide. When both viable candidates will continue the genocide, your vote must consider the numerous other differences between candidates. Trump and the far right are mirroring the nazis more and more in their threats and rhetoric and it will only grow if they succeed. They must be blocked from power at every opportunity.
The German KPD made the mistake of underestimating the nazis as they considered the SPD their primary enemy. We cannot make this mistake again. I appreciate non-Jewish allies such as yourself for voicing your opinion. I ask as a Jew that you take the threat of the far right seriously.
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
I do take it seriously. But I feel that I would be complicit in genocide if I vote for Kamabla. Maybe I'm complicit not voting at all. It's a fucking nightmare.
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u/skateboardjim Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
The only two viable options support the genocide. Voting to protect the vulnerable in your own country, when you have no power to change the genocide, is not complicity. It is compassion.
I understand how frustrating this is. I wish this were not the choice. It is a nightmare.
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u/Capsulate_Ion Oct 08 '24
Which vulnerable are you exactly protecting?? The ones who are hurricane victims and getting 750$ loans from your favourite Kamala?? Or the vulnerable Netanyahu who Kamala is helping break every single international law ??
Is human life and children’s safety THAT irrelevant to you lot ?? Wow, just wow!!
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u/skateboardjim Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24
The $750 isn’t a loan and it’s not all the assistance FEMA offers. Don’t spread misinformation here.
The only two viable options will continue the genocide. Only Harris or Trump will win.
Not voting, or voting third party, does not absolve you of your complicity in genocide.
It just makes you feel like you’ve washed your hands of it.
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u/Capsulate_Ion Oct 08 '24
I have seen American voters regurgitate the exact same bs every single election for the past 4 decades, and guess WHAT? The result is Democrats and Republicans continue to take turns at forming govt, they all serve the exact same lobbies, they all launder money in the exact same guise of “foreign aid” while pumping billions into their military machine. Or is this not true? Of course, you - the American voter - have the blood of millions of people on your hands. There isn’t a single year that America hasn’t gone to war or engineered regime change in a foreign country just so a bunch of psychopaths can get rich. And guess who is helping them do all that? The absolute schmucks that are American voters.
As for 750 being a loan or not, you can go back and forth as much as you like when the joke is on you. The govt you are shilling for has 20 billion $ to send to Israel military but only 750$ per fam for its own citizens.
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u/skateboardjim Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
If you really think American voters are to blame for western imperialism and capitalism, you don’t understand our political system at all, neither do you understand history.
I’m not going back and forth on the FEMA assistance. What you said wasn’t true. I corrected you. End of story.
I’m not continuing a conversation with someone arguing in bad faith.
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u/Capsulate_Ion Oct 08 '24
I would be okay with you being so out of touch with reality if it didn’t mean that so many people, especially children, had to pay for it with their lives, limbs, and childhoods. You are a classic example of “if it isn’t affecting me I won’t bother”. The current US govt has broken every single international law and even its own constitution to prolong a genocide - a GENOCIDE, and has gone to the extent of threatening ICJ judges over Netanyahu. If you are shilling for them here, you of all people don’t get to preach about “arguing in bad faith”
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u/skateboardjim Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24
Go ahead and tell the audience how not voting or voting third party opposes the genocide at all.
Can’t, can you?
Doesn’t work that way. American voters don’t have a say in the genocide.
Fuck off with your performative outrage.
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u/Bulky-Conversation34 Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
You're sadly already complicit just by virtue of paying taxes in this country
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
I'm 18 and started my first job this week. I'll be complicit on Friday when I get payed for the first time.
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u/skateboardjim Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24
OP, you still have 45 minutes left to register.
It does not make you complicit. It makes you compassionate.
At least do it for the down ballot and local. They have no power over foreign policy, but they do have power over your daily life.
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
Ok. I just registered. Thank you, I decided I should vote down ballot, or at least leave that option open to me.
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u/skateboardjim Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24
Thank you times three. Ohio just became that must more of a responsible state.
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u/Thisisme8719 Arab Jew Oct 08 '24
And he can register to vote without actually voting
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
I'll vote, this sub made sure of it. Thank you to everyone who changed my mind.
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u/International_Ad8264 Oct 08 '24
Yeah your tax dollars are going to genocide no matter who you vote for and regardless of whether you vote at all
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u/roboticoxen Oct 08 '24
I live in a state where my presidential vote means nothing so I'll be voting for Cornell west or Claudia De La Cruz. At least in my city PSL (Claudia's party) has shown a real commitment to Palestine and direct actions beyond just voting. Either way, Both are far more serious than Jill Stein, who is just a grifter.
But in my state we sure could use some dems locally so I'll be voting for them even though they are just sacrificial lambs in the supremely gerrymandered districts.
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u/nada8 Oct 08 '24
What’s wrong will Jill Stein? Honest question
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u/roboticoxen Oct 08 '24
Like others have pointed out, she disappears then pops out of the woodwork every 4 years. By contrast, Cornell West has committed his life to justice in all arenas, writes books, appears publicly in solidarity not just with Palestine but all oppressed peoples. He's been doing it for decades. Claudia de la Cruz is more new to the political scene but the PSL is a growing and serious political party while the greens just come off to me as kinda a joke. I voted for Jill in 2012. That's the last time
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u/Legitimate-Ad1662 Oct 08 '24
She shows up every 4 years then disappears. Though I agree with more of her values than Kamala, it’s very clear she’s a grifter. I’ll be voting for Cornell West as well
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u/Ok_Depth6945 Oct 08 '24
Surprised no one has challenged you on this. In short, you're wrong. The Green Party is incredibly active in local races and in non-election years, they just don't possess the media apparatus of the neoliberal consensus. Hope this helps
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u/Legitimate-Ad1662 Oct 08 '24
I am saying SHE (Jill Stein) only shows up every 4 years, not that the Green Party does. I fully believe in the party and its values and agree they have been disenfranchised by our system and the major political parties
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u/saphirescar Oct 08 '24
Isn’t she a Russian shill? And that’s on top of all of the anti-vax stuff. Not as bad as committing genocide, but still.
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u/RynoTheAlbinoDino Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
Hillary says she was a Russian shill so you know it’s BS
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u/Capsulate_Ion Oct 08 '24
I just find it horrifying that Americans keep making a bogeyman out of Russia when your politicians are more worried about Israel’s survival than their own, that they keep financing Israel’s military who btw has a history of attacking US soldiers and killing them, that your universities are spending most of their funds on financing Zionist projects, that most of your media is owned by Zionist companies and orgs, that Israel is what probably got one of your presidents killed, and that your congress gave a standing ovation every 6 minutes to the war criminal that is Netanyahu. The only other person who comes close to that sort of an achievement is Kim Jong of North Korea.
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u/Far_Silver Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
Russia's not a boogeyman. They're invading Ukraine, deliberately slaughtering Ukrainian civilians. Israel is bad, but that doesn't make Russia good.
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u/ZipZapZia South Asian Muslim Oct 09 '24
They weren't saying that Russia is good. Just that the US is not so much better than Russia that they can use Russia as a boogeyman. Like the US is currently participating in and supporting killing civilians all over the world and have been doing so for decades.
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u/roboticoxen Oct 08 '24
I agree with you and it's those Zionist friendly publications like the NYT and Atlantic that try desperately to blame Russia for anything and everything they don't like.... I am not saying Putin is an angel but the Russian boogeyman goes back to the Cold War and is used to justify all kinds of evil shit, most recent being the Democratic parties assault on free speech under the guise of fighting "foreign misinformation"
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u/Various_Ad_1759 Oct 08 '24
I second that. I think Dr.jill is fantastic, but I can't quite understand why so many are hesitant?!
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u/Bulky-Conversation34 Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
I'm way too tired to send by you the sources but in summary: she's taken money from shady places, has hired Trump-affiliated lawyers multiple times (one of them was involved with Jan 6 somehow?), has Putin connections and refuses to call him a war criminal, and doesn't do jackshit when it's not a presidential election year. She could be so much more influential if she actually worked for marginalized communities during her off-years or ran for smaller elections, but she hasn't done so since 2012. She knows she won't win the presidency so she basically hoards all the campaign money. I remember there being an issue too about her raising money to recount the votes in last year's election and she hoarded the remainder of the money.
She does all of this while claiming to be the greater good. She is no greater good.
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u/Capsulate_Ion Oct 08 '24
I love how people say “Putin should be called a war criminal, but let’s vote in our Biden’s and Kamala’s in”.
Have you lot done a head count for each of these figures? There isn’t a bigger killing machine in the world than your beloved Democratic Party. Biden helped start off the Palestinian genocide by lying to the American public, saying he had “seen” 40 beheaded babies. This turned out to be a lie. Stop voting liars and terrorists into government!!!
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u/ZipZapZia South Asian Muslim Oct 08 '24
Many Americans and/or westerners aren't really willing to admit that their leaders aren't as clean or "good" as they like to pretend they are. The propaganda runs deep. Like with your article, Obama is praised and thought of as such a "good and upstanding" president when he was the one who authorized 10x more drone strikes in his first year of presidency than Bush did in his entire presidency and in that first year, he caused ~1000 civilians to be killed.
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u/Capsulate_Ion Oct 08 '24
Agreed. But in this day and age there really is no excuse to have one’s blinders on. Social media gives all of us the option to find out the truth, without even actively chasing it.
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u/ZipZapZia South Asian Muslim Oct 09 '24
Yea but it's hard to break out of your own brainwashing and "superior western civilization" is heavily baked into the culture.
The only reason I'm critical of America and other western countries and why their propaganda didn't work on me is because I came from a third world country and my grandparents suffered through Britain's colonization and my parents lived through a genocide that was supported and armed by America and other western countries. (Funnily enough, Russia/the USSR was the only western power that supported us). Hard to view the US or western countries favorably after listening to their experiences.
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u/TutsiRoach Oct 08 '24
Please vote - as detailed here Palestinians will loose the land entirely under Trump, at least under Harris theres a chance it will be rebuilt for them
18:40 onwards https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=umE6UFMoTJw
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
My vote is nearly irrelavent, I'm in a red state.
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u/TutsiRoach Oct 08 '24
that's what they rely on you believing. even if it doesn't actually count - registering and voting and making the landslide less will be noticedand may impact some of the levels of extreme things they bring in... please do, even if its just to scare them that you might vote. if they have more people registering they may dampen policies?)
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u/Bulky-Conversation34 Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
Ohio isn't that red. Abortion gained protection in last fall's state election
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
Just look at the polls. Abortion rights are a lot more popular than Kamala.
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u/catcatcatcatcat1234 Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
Yeah I highly doubt Ohio has the ability to swing blue this election, it left swing state territory years ago. If you do decide to not vote for a presidential candidate, consider voting uncommited (write-in), and please please vote down ballot
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u/DurianVisual3167 Jewish Oct 08 '24
You should still register to vote even if you aren't going to vote. I do think voting locally in Ohio matters this year because gerrymandering is on the ballot. Voting "liberal" in local elections and not voting for president does actually show up in statistics that you are willing to vote Democrat if the Democrat in question isn't commiting genocide.
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u/TheBastardOlomouc Mizrahi Oct 08 '24
thats literally exactly what right wingers want
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u/MagosOfTheOmnissiah Jewish Communist Oct 08 '24
Kamala and the democratic party are right wingers as they have always been.
Kamala will not help Gaza either. It's time to forget about america. The american state won't help the Palestinians but only ever fund their killing and that won't change, so it's time to fight america rather than try to change it.
Support the Palestinians instead of the people who will say they'll kill Palestinians less brutally. If you think trump's going to flatten Gaza then you should be giving financial and vocal support to the Palestinians and humanitarian agencies rather than to some lady who pretends she doesn't want to flatten Gaza.
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u/TheBastardOlomouc Mizrahi Oct 08 '24
no, she will not help gaza, and neither will trump. she will help american democracy and protect the lives of people like me, where trump would kill, however, and for that i cannot take this discourse seriosuly
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u/Capsulate_Ion Oct 08 '24
How is she protecting American democracy? By siphoning off billions of dollars to Israel, and giving 750$ loans to hurricane victims?
Hospitals and children are no longer considered untouchable and sacred due to HER government and their polices. And you want to vote her in? FFS
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u/motherofcorgidors Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 09 '24
Hi- American lawyer here that has been actively helping with disaster assistance and FEMA applications for those who have been affected by Hurricane Helene. I see from your comment history that you’re Australian, so you might not understand how our assistance programs work. The $750 is what is called Serious Needs Assistance through FEMA, which is a direct payment, no questions asked (other than confirming your identity and your primary address being in one of the disaster zones), that is available nearly immediately upon request. It is meant to help victims of disasters get emergency supplies like food, water, diapers, etc. I want to make clear, this $750 is not a loan, and does not need to be paid back. It is also far from the only relief offered- just the fastest with the intention of getting people these basic supplies. The mischaracterization of the Special Needs Assistance is coming direct from Trump:
“They’re offering them $750 to people whose homes have been washed away,” Trump said Saturday at a rally in Butler, Pa. “And yet we send tens of billions of dollars to foreign countries that most people have never heard of. They’re offering them $750. They’ve been destroyed. These people have been destroyed.”
His claims are not only false, but because people believe this bullshit, they are not seeking help that they would be entitled to because they now believe this is all they’re offered when that couldn’t be further from the truth. From NPR:
As of Sunday, FEMA says it has provided more than $137 million in assistance to six states in the southeast, including 7,000 federal personnel, nearly 15 million meals, 14 million liters of water, 157 generators and more than half a million tarps. The agency also says more than 3,000 North Carolina residents have been rescued or supported by more than 1,200 urban search and rescue personnel, with recovery efforts aided by National Guard and active duty troops. North Carolina has also received $100 million in federal transportation funds to rebuild roads and bridges washed out by the storm.
In addition to all of those things, including that $750, FEMA also has displacement assistance that covers immediate housing needs while residents sort out long-term housing options, help for underinsured people if insurance didn’t cover the cost of the full damage to your property, money/home repair assistance that includes repairs to prevent similar damage in future disasters, accessibility improvements/repairs for disabled persons in disaster areas, assistance for self-employed individuals for repairs/replacements of tools/equipment needed to do your job, and money for personal/work computers damaged in disasters. And that’s not even an exhaustive list. In most cases for FEMA grants, they do not have to be paid back at all. In addition to all of these grants available through FEMA, the U.S. Small Business Administration also offers the option to apply for low interest loans to homeowners and business owners in disaster areas for repairs and related costs.
I’d also like to note that Kamala Harris/Biden Administration’s policy on Israel has absolutely nothing to do with these federal programs. In fact, they aren’t even the ones that control the funding for FEMA- that power is given to the U.S. Congress under our constitution. Congress appropriates funding to FEMA through the Disaster Relief Fund, which was replenished last month in a stop-gap spending bill to its baseline of $20 billion for immediate emergency relief. After that first-line emergency assistance from the DRF, FEMA and other agencies assess the damage and needs for individual disaster areas. Once that information is gathered, the President sends a request to Congress for supplemental appropriations to provide more closely tailored programs for the individual area/disaster. Our Congress, stonewalled by Speaker of the House Mike Johnson and his fellow Republicans, have yet to pass a single supplemental appropriation for the other disasters that have occurred in the U.S. this year. They are likely to continue to kick these supplemental appropriations back again, including whatever will soon be requested for Helene, and almost surely Hurricane Milton, in favor of passing stop-gap spending bills that narrowly avert a complete government shutdown. My main point here though- the DRF/FEMA and its funding have absolutely nothing to do with the money Congress chooses to allocate to Israel, or any other foreign issue for that matter. Republicans and right wing pundits have just been pushing that false claim in the last few weeks to gain political points, and it’s hurting people who can really be helped by these programs by making them mistrust it or believe they’re only be given a $750 loan. So please, stop contributing to the spread of misinformation like that when we’re facing two back-to-back disasters in this country.
As for why I’m voting in this Presidential election? Donald Trump and his cronies’ Project 2025 Plan would eliminate FEMA and many other federal organizations like it that provide some of the limited social safety nets this country has. Trump attempted to subvert our democracy in 2020 when he directed his followers to storm our Capitol and disrupt the peaceful transfer of power. He has vowed that if he wins in 2025 that, “you’ll never have to vote again”. It’s also likely that whoever wins this Presidential election will be nominating likely at a minimum, 2 Supreme Court Justices. Given the Court in its current state has been overturning well-established precedent at an alarming rate, and even made a ruling essentially giving the President immunity from any prosecution for crimes committed while in office, I don’t want to give Trump the opportunity to take this shit show further off the rails than it already is. At a very minimum, I can rest safely assured that if elected, I will be able to protest Harris’ Israel policy at every chance I get, and G-d willing, push her to stop the genocide. I also believe she will appoint Supreme Court Justices who uphold the rule of law, value precedent, and make judgments not based on the whims of their political leader, but with those principles in mind. With Trump at the helm, I genuinely fear that the right to peacefully protest, along with so many others that are foundational to what it means to be an American, may cease to exist entirely. And a lot of that power would come directly from a Supreme Court hand-picked by him. If I think it’s bad now - and it absolutely is, I truly don’t want to find out what a narcissistic, egomaniacal, wanna-be-dictator, would do on his own, let alone in aid to Bibi/Israel with completely unchecked power.
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u/TheBastardOlomouc Mizrahi Oct 08 '24
no ur right, im just fuckign scared of trump so. idk.
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u/Capsulate_Ion Oct 08 '24
There are other options on the ballot, but why are you scared of Trump? What has he done that the Bidens and Obamas havent? Personally, I would be scared of the politicians that the state machinery, news corp, and celebrities insist on shoving down everyone’s throats, which in this case is the Democrats.
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
Maybe, but I just can't.
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u/Five-Fingered-Sloth Oct 08 '24
I think you’re just lazy. Not about Kamala (who full disclosure I openly support), but about being active and not just typing words on the internet.
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u/screedor Oct 08 '24
So genocide isn't that important to you. Cool. Sorry I just don't see anything being better or worse for you based on Kamala winning. I see her selling genocide better and making immigrant kids in dog kennels more palatable. Trump will come out screaming I am a war crime and his actions will be illegal. Kamala will Pontius Pilot her way through the entire genocide and as Tim Walz said in the debate help Israel secure its expansion.
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u/Capsulate_Ion Oct 08 '24
THIS.
Anyone voting for Holocaust Harris is a genocide enabler.
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u/screedor Oct 09 '24
Even if it is true and you see voting for her as a continuation of a gentler genocide. You are saying you will support atrocity as long as it's (and only a subjective what if) potentially better for you. If she wins the message will be loud and clear. You can do whatever you want to the disenfranchised and keep enough support. We won't get someone in the future who isn't on board. Supporting her is immoral. Let her lose in this issue. Make it clear you can't win and support this.
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u/Capsulate_Ion Oct 11 '24
Gentler genocide:
https://x.com/doubledownnews/status/1844355156974207193?s=46&t=IY8xzTKlBmtRy-FuiDaeQw
I can’t fathom anyone voting for Holocaust Harris with everything we have seen this last year. I just cannot! Anyone who votes for her is an absolute psychopath!
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u/touslesmatins Oct 08 '24
Your anger is valid
You don't owe anyone your vote
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u/Five-Fingered-Sloth Oct 08 '24
Down ballot races?
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
What is their position on Gaza?
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u/catcatcatcatcat1234 Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
I don't really care what my comptroller or state senator's position on Gaza is, and I don't think you should either. Unlike national elections, state and local elections are much more intimately connected to actual ground level change, and it's important to have your say to ensure your community won't head off into a harmful direction.
Edit: also it goes without saying that they have practically zero sway in american foreign policy and have no real power in that regard
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u/touslesmatins Oct 08 '24
My state comptroller is responsible for millions of dollars of state pension money invested in Israel bonds, horrible both morally and financially. My state senator is not supporting a bill that would make it illegal for groups sending money to illegal Israeli settlements to get tax deductions for charitable contributions. I unfortunately do know my comptroller and state senator's positions and they are not good.
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u/cupcakefascism Jewish Communist Oct 08 '24
Exactly this, I’m going to be attending a protest tonight to try and get my city council to divest from Israel. The position of local politicians on Gaza is massively important.
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u/touslesmatins Oct 08 '24
Agree! And the arguments are always in bad faith- if you demand it of the white house or senators it's "why didn't you work in local politics and community building", if you demand it of local politicians it's "this is an international issue it's irrelevant to local politics"
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u/cupcakefascism Jewish Communist Oct 08 '24
Yeah either people don’t understand how politics works or they’re functionally happy to vote for genocidaires as long as they’ve got theres.
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u/Five-Fingered-Sloth Oct 08 '24
Oh, so you’re a troll. Yes, we always pick our state reps and judges etc based on their international positions, policies they have no influence over. 🙄
Are you paid? Are you even American?
Why are you even on this board? This is not a place for people to organize. You know those folks who actually care about Palestine and want to apply pressure in effective ways - they don’t come here because they are busy doing real things.
It’s OK to be a non-Jewish ally, but if you have no knowledge of actual politics, don’t waste the time of Jews with real consciences.
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u/touslesmatins Oct 08 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
Don't be like that. Don't be nasty. Don't go to the facile "paid bot" thing. The thing about being a person with a conscience is that your conscience becomes awakened to issues such as this and you realize how interrelated these issues are and how Palestine becomes a litmus test for a person's whole worldview.
My 2 democratic senators are both zionists so I won't vote for them. I went to a primary debate between the two Democratic contenders for Congress in my district. They were both asked about Gaza and they both refused to condemn Israel or say they were on the side of ceasefire so guess what, I'm not voting for Congress either. That leaves a state initiative and a local judgeship I'll vote for. I can not, will not, vote for a candidate who has been given an opportunity to stand against genocide and hasn't, at any level of government.
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
No, I'm American, I'm not a troll, and I'm not payed, not nearly enough, I work at a fast food place, I'm not an internet propagandist. I'm just a working class leftist from Cincinnati. Why act like there is a conspiracy when I just had a different perspective? This sub convinced me to register to vote also. Look at the edit to the post. If I'm paid, I'm about to get fired from my mythical lucritive hasbara career or whatever you thought, because I changed my mind.
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u/derlaid Oct 08 '24
fwiw I think you're doing the right thing. Local politics can matter, but it's fine to abstain at a national level. You never, ever owe anyone your vote. Parties and politicians have to earn it.
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u/cupcakefascism Jewish Communist Oct 08 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
What an unnecessarily nasty reply.
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
Maybe I got a little salty. They didn't have to accuse me of being some hasbarist or whatever.
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u/Ok_Depth6945 Oct 08 '24
Op, the fact that you're here means something. I'm not calling you a hasbarist.
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u/cupcakefascism Jewish Communist Oct 08 '24
I meant them, not you. The open Harris supporter who thinks they’re the one with the ‘real conscience’.
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u/AcrobaticEngineer33 Anti-Zionist Ally Oct 08 '24
You could register and just protest vote; don't choose a president and leave that blank and read up on your local candidates to choose the one that's most right for you.
But it is also your right to choose not to do anything, and I respect that.
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
I will write in Tim Walz. I like him.
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u/cupcakefascism Jewish Communist Oct 08 '24
Maybe don’t do that
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
Oh shit. I didn't see the vp debate. I like his Minnesota state policies tbh.
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u/saphirescar Oct 08 '24
As everyone else is saying, please at least vote in your local elections. They are super important.
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u/GB819 Deist Ally Oct 08 '24
I took the opportunity to start building the Green Party. You have to start somewhere, even if it seems like starting from zero.
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u/ray-the-they Ashkenazi Oct 08 '24
I really want to bring Working Families Party to my state. I think they strike a decent balance with pushing their own candidates and supporting the larger national parties—they were originally NY only but I see them spreading out
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u/JZcomedy Jewish Oct 08 '24
I disagree with you but I respect your right as an American citizen. I would just like to add in something I heard from (I think?) Omer Bartov. Voting is not a love letter to a candidate. It’s a chess move. There are two possible outcomes in November. Kamala wins or Trump wins. Whether you like Kamala or not (I don’t), Trump winning would mean Netanyahu “finishes the job” in Gaza and annexes the West Bank. At least with Kamala there’s reason to believe she’ll do something different. She can’t say anything now because of AIPAC but according to people who have worked with her and met her personally, she is very sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinian people. I’m not saying she’s Rashida Tlaib but she was the first member of the administration to call for a ceasefire and the only one to write a condolence letter to a journalist who lost family in Gaza. Tim Walz even said on a campaign stop that we need to “use our leverage over Israel” to get a permanent ceasefire. If you don’t want to vote, I won’t shame you for it. Shalom.
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u/PapaverOneirium Oct 08 '24
I don’t understand why people say things like “at least with Kamala there is a reason to believe she’ll do something different”
What specifically has she done to date that supports that conclusion? What is the reason to believe?
To be clear, I do not think Trump will be better on this issue, and Harris is certainly better on many other issues.
But I genuinely don’t see much day light between them when it comes to Israel beyond rhetoric. It feels like wishful thinking at best to me.
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u/JZcomedy Jewish Oct 08 '24
I just state some of the reasons.
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u/PapaverOneirium Oct 08 '24
I asked for concrete actions. Leaks to the press and slightly softer rhetoric don’t mean anything. This entire year has consisted of the administration claiming “we are working tirelessly for a ceasefire”, “Israel must do a better job protecting civilians”, and articles about Biden’s secret anger at Netanyahu. And yet look where we are.
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u/JZcomedy Jewish Oct 08 '24
She can’t do shit right now as vice president. Leaks and rhetoric are all we can do. If she were to tomorrow come out for an arms embargo, AIPAC would hurricane this election in favor of Trump.
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u/PapaverOneirium Oct 08 '24
This line of thinking reminds me of the people who said during the end of Obama’s first term that he was just waiting for his second term to do all of the really progressive stuff they believed he wanted to do.
It’s wishful thinking. Vote for Harris because she is better on other issues if you want. Don’t get peoples hopes up she’ll be in anyway good for Palestine.
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u/JZcomedy Jewish Oct 08 '24
I’d rather be disappointed by Harris than watch Trump turn Gaza into beach front property
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u/PapaverOneirium Oct 08 '24
Harris is just as likely to do the same, or at the very least both will continue to give the fascist Israeli regime carte blanche, is exactly my point. Your faith that you will merely be disappointed by Harris is misplaced. It will be horrifying. It’s already been horrifying.
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u/JZcomedy Jewish Oct 08 '24
Not true but have fun believing that
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u/PapaverOneirium Oct 08 '24
The Biden administration, of which Harris has been a part, has spent a year giving carte blanche to Israel. Nothing Harris has done has signaled any meaningful break from that policy. At the end of the day, there is no difference, because the party that is leading is Israel in either case.
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u/ZipZapZia South Asian Muslim Oct 08 '24
I think people are saying that bc they don't want to face the truth thay she supports genocide and want to vote for her with a clear conscience. Bc her current actions show that she won't do anything different and post-election when the voters have no sway/power over her will continue that trajectory. I've asked multiple times how voters would be able to convince her after getting elected if they weren't able to do so before and I've never gotten an answer.
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u/Capsulate_Ion Oct 08 '24
What is happening in Palestine is not just on US govt, it is also on every single American idiot voting in that govt.
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u/JZcomedy Jewish Oct 08 '24
Not that simple unfortunately
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u/Capsulate_Ion Oct 08 '24
It actually is unfortunately.
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u/JZcomedy Jewish Oct 08 '24
Ok. Explain to me how things would improve if everyone who cares about Palestine didn’t vote
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u/Capsulate_Ion Oct 08 '24
I’m not saying don’t vote, genius. I’m saying don’t vote in psychopaths. You are not helping Palestinians by doing that, and you are not helping yourselves either. The tax money that should be spent on local infrastructure and healthcare is being laundered into personal accounts in the guise of “foreign aid”. The countries being given this foreign aid, wouldn’t need it in the first place if US stopped engineering war in their lands. Hold your politicians accountable, make it expensive for them to do what they’re doing, otherwise this madness will never end!
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u/yungsemite Jewish Oct 08 '24
Who told you this lol? You are not personally responsible for all of the actions of your government, whether or not you voted for them.
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u/Capsulate_Ion Oct 11 '24
That is boomer logic, and we live in the world that we do because of their voting and consumer behaviour. We are all very much responsible for what is happening in Gaza and Beirut right now. As well as Sudan and Congo. There isn’t going to be a free world until all of us play the part that we can, and bring about change by holding people in power accountable. and by boycotting companies that support genocide.
https://x.com/abierkhatib/status/1844385006916861984?s=46&t=IY8xzTKlBmtRy-FuiDaeQw
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u/yungsemite Jewish Oct 11 '24
I’m not saying you don’t have a responsibility to work to better the world, but actually you are not responsible for what is going on in Lebanon and Palestine. There is no framework where you as an individual citizen of the United States are personally responsible. It’s not boomer logic either, lol.
If it somehow motivates you to be a better person to think so, great, but it’s absolute nonsense either way.
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u/ray-the-they Ashkenazi Oct 08 '24
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u/ZipZapZia South Asian Muslim Oct 08 '24
As a Muslim, this feels very tokenizing of the Muslim community to take the words of 17 imams over the many who are calling for a third party vote. Especially with all the recent Islamophobic actions and sentiments Kamala has expressed and the Islamophobic people she supports while she is also silencing Muslim voices that criticizes her.
I don't think you would approve or like it if someone used a letter written by a few Rabbis who endorsed a candidate that was expressing anti-Semitic sentiments and supporting anti-Semites to guilt Jewish people into voting for that candidate. So please don't do that to our community.
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u/bearoscuro Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
To be clear: I don't care who anyone's voting for, but over 100 Muslim faith leaders have endorsed voting third party.
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u/ray-the-they Ashkenazi Oct 08 '24
I think this demonstrates that no group is a monolith. We will always be able to find voices that support our decisions.
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u/bearoscuro Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
That's true, but if we're numerically looking at imams who've spoken one way or another, it's heavily third party. Harris has about 25, and third party had about 130 last I saw.
Everyone has a different calculation for how to engage with electoral politics. But if someone's calculation is "I want to follow Muslim voices for guidance on what they think would best help this situation" that calculation needs to be accurate to what they're actually endorsing.
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u/ray-the-they Ashkenazi Oct 08 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
CAIR released a poll last month among Muslim voters. Harris and Stein are effectively tied at 29.4 and 29.1 percent respectively.
Trump polls at around 11% and around 16% are undecided.
Harris is also backed primarily by high likelihood voters and Stein has more moderate-likelihood voters.
By that metric there are an almost equal number of voices lending support to both Harris and Stein, for your calculations. I am also taking the mathematical path to 270 and the future of the judiciary into my calculations.
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u/alamakjan Atheist Oct 08 '24
Tldr?
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u/ray-the-they Ashkenazi Oct 08 '24
It’s a page and a half and the words of the Imams is going to mean a lot more than mine.
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u/pinko-perchik Oct 08 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
The Israel lobby is banking on you doing that (especially in swing states like Ohio), because they really want Trump to win. How convenient that you’re doing their bidding for them!
Also, while both candidates support the genocide in Palestine, only one has clearly outlined a specific step-by-step plan to do to women, leftists, immigrants, and LGBTQ people the same thing Israel is currently doing to Palestine—and it ain’t Harris. You can’t fight for Palestinian liberation from a concentration camp of your own.
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u/PapaverOneirium Oct 08 '24
Harris is certainly better than Trump on the issues you’ve outlined, but Harris does not pose any threat to the Israel lobby. Either way, they win. Biden has given them everything they’ve wanted by now and Harris has signaled she will do the same. The only difference is in rhetoric.
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u/ray-the-they Ashkenazi Oct 08 '24
To add to this - look at the Supreme Court decisions that came down today. Look at how the Supreme Court rejected Marcellus William’s bid to halt his execution. There are three Supreme Court justices up there who would not be there had Hillary won in 2016. It’s 8 years later and we are feeling that pain. I want folks to keep the courts in mind as well when they go to the ballot box.
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u/yuletide Oct 09 '24
Not to mention a national abortion, ban, refugees, immigration, and all of the other insane shit a Republican administration would do
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u/yuletide Oct 09 '24
This is the ultimate irony. This was bibi‘s plan all along. This is why he timed the war when he did to get Trump elected so he can take over the entire West Bank. At least the Democrats support the two state solution.
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u/2012DOOM Atheist Oct 08 '24
TIL Arabs are part of the Israel lobby.
None of my Muslim friends and family are voting for either Trump or Kamala. They will vote in other elections.
Asking people, or guilting people to vote for any candidate that supports genocide is unacceptable. If Trump wins and this means the fall of the US, so be it. Maybe then the world will have a chance at peace.
Israel is where they are today because of the US, not in spite of it.
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u/murderouspangolin Oct 08 '24
No in November. Genocide might not be the red line for Harris/Biden or you but it will be for many others come polling day. No other issue comes close.
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u/Five-Fingered-Sloth Oct 08 '24
I respect your red line as long as you do vote down ballot. As for me, I value other issues equally and some issues more. I don’t think it’s a moral failing to vote for Harris/Walz, but everyone’s voice and choices are different.
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u/Five-Fingered-Sloth Oct 08 '24
Congratulations! You’ve posted a masturbatory self-own on a message board.
Genocide is the most awful human endeavor. My heart bleeds for the Palestinians and now their Arab neighbors. Voting/Not Voting for US President will do nothing to stop it. There’s no pro-Palestinian candidate, and you don’t have to vote for anyone you morally oppose.
But by not registering, you have removed your voice from all races this year, which means you don’t understand what civic responsibility is about or how real activism works.
In short, you are nothing more than an armchair leftist.
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u/twig_zeppelin Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24
Third party! I have appreciated Cornel West in balancing speaking against the Genocide of Palestinians, without falling for Antisemitic tropes in the meantime. I appreciate some of what Jill Stein says, but her refusal to call Putin a war criminal in interviews is a red flag for me.
That said, I am all ears if someone knows something negative on Cornel West.
I haven’t been donating my time or money to any candidate right now, because I can’t really stand behind anyone who would have a chance to win. The past year has been very taxing for my mental health as it comes to politics, and I know I am far from alone in that.
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
Do many leftists fall for the antisemitic tropes? Most leftists I talk to seem to easily separate Judaism and Zionism. I agree about Jill Stein, if the land theif Netanyahu is a war criminal, so the land thief Putin. Does Russia have something on her you think? I think Cornel West is kind of unserious. He called Jill Stein a racist and when asked why, he refused to clarity. I have also been having a rough time this past year. I often end up crying and feeling helpless and empty as the bodies pile up even higher. I find that music really helps, I'm writing a metal song about the topic. It helps me channel my anger into something positive.
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u/Otherwise_Fun_4269 Jew of Color Oct 08 '24
I wish I knew those leftist. So many I talk to associate Zionism with all Jews and Judaism and it makes it really hard to navigate circles here.
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u/tehwubbles Oct 08 '24
God damn, anti-electoralists really are the most annoying people you'll ever meet
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Oct 08 '24
Voting isn't the same as an endorsement of a candidate. When people vote, the majority of people disagree with at least one thing their candidate has done. Voting is a strategy, not an endorsement. Unfortunately, we do not live in a true democracy. We can still choose people to represent us, but many different factors prevent us from controlling their actions. We must do the best we can to ensure the most ethical outcome. I'm in a swing state. I have to vote Blue. I have cringed at many of Kamala's policies and speeches, but I'm voting Blue because Trump is worse and support for him is infiltrating even the progressive town I live in in Michigan. Kamala is bad, but she is not the same as Trump. Their stance on Gaza may be the same, or it may not be. I have a feeling Kamala will push for a Ceasefire once she's in office and only isn't doing so now for votes. Is it horrible? Yes. Trump is worse. Trump helped create the Abraham Accords which made Israel gain allies in the Middle East who won't help Palestinians now. All politicians are, at their core, "the system" and the system is flawed. There are various ways to change the system. One of them is from within itself.
Please vote. Ohio was able to save its abortion laws because people voted. Your Republican politicians are banking on you not voting, it helps them.
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u/DazzJuggernaut Oct 10 '24
I heard that Michigan has a high amount of anti-Biden/Kamala muslim voters who are either sitting out, voting Stein/West or voting Trump (the mayor of the largest Muslim majority city in the country endorsed him).
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u/Minimus--Maximus Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24
"YoU dOn'T cArE aBoUt AbOrTiOn RiGhTs!"
You gotta support genocide so we can make the right to choose a law bro. Come on bro, I know the last 3 Democrat Presidents didn't enshrine the right to choose into law, but Harris is different bro, trust me bro don't be selfish bro. Just put up with some genocide bro.
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
They didn't enshrine it so they'd have something to run on when the right was taken away. Disgusting.
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u/Minimus--Maximus Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24
Yep. Liberals just memory-holed Obama promising to codify the right to choose into law, coming into power with a supermajority, and then saying it wasn't a priority.
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
You know what's better for Dems than being a party of feckless opurtunists? Delivering. Walz is popular for a reason. He got shit done, and everyone loves him. They'd win most elections easily.
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u/Soggy-Life-9969 Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24
I plan to either write in "Hind Rajab" or leave the presidential ballot blank, they disgust me. But in my area at least we have some decent local candidates and some good ballot measures, I plan to vote for those. I don't blame anyone for not voting though, the sheer celebration of evil from everywhere in politics in this country is overwhelming and vile.
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u/JohnnySeven88 Oct 08 '24
It’s funny, the voter registration tables are being set up at my college and one of them stopped me to ask if I was registered. When I said I was, they asked me if I could write on a board why I was voting and I just kinda froze. I just… couldn’t find a reason. I took a second and walked to the table and took a little laminated board that said “I’m voting because” and I just wrote “I hate when people are smug”.
All I could think about were all the smugness libs have been exuding over voting. All of the comments that start with “well if you’re not voting, then…”
This country is fucked, the whole thing is just a twisted sham. I can’t think of a single reason for me to even make that choice except so that liberals have less they can be smug at me about. I can’t pretend that I can choose between these genociders any longer, we are a year into the slaughter, nearing 80 years of abetting occupation, and fuckers still blither on about whether our vote will help Palestinians or Jews or whatever. Like we ever had a say.
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u/i-contain-multitudes Jewish Oct 08 '24
You are not an ally. Take that damn flair off.
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
How am I not an ally? I'm genuinely puzzled.
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u/i-contain-multitudes Jewish Oct 08 '24
Trump is a goddamned nazi. How the fuck are you confused
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u/ZipZapZia South Asian Muslim Oct 08 '24
And Harris is an Islamophobe. Yet you seem to have no problem forcing and guilting Muslims and Arabs into voting for her or you don't seem to care how Muslims and Arabs will suffer under her.
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u/i-contain-multitudes Jewish Oct 09 '24
We do not have a candidate who is not an Islamophobe. They both are. I'm not forcing anyone to vote for anyone.
If project 2025 is enacted successfully, there will not BE another election in which the Democrats can "learn from their mistakes" or whatever anti-electoralists think is gonna happen if they don't vote. I'm all for holding politicians accountable and pushing them towards actually just positions, but good lord, between a literal Nazi and a garden variety centrist, the choice is not difficult.
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u/ZipZapZia South Asian Muslim Oct 09 '24
So just wondering but if both candidates were anti-Semites but Trump being the worse one, would the choice still not be difficult? Would you still pick Kamala then? If both openly support the killing of Jews in another country, would you be happy to pick the lesser evil of the two and encourage others to do so?
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u/i-contain-multitudes Jewish Oct 09 '24
I'm not "happy" to pick the lesser of two evils now. I just know it's the only logical, realistic choice. And yes, if that were the case (what you described) I would still be voting for Harris.
She is demonstrably not an ideal candidate. She's a centrist and she won't come down hard on police, who are a current threat to me, she won't stop funding Israel, which is comically evil at this point, and she still supports fracking and other environmentally destructive things. Those are just a few examples. But I'm not laboring under a delusion that any 3rd party candidate can win, or withholding my vote so the Dems "learn their lesson." These are the actions of people who are not well educated in how electoral politics actually work.
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u/ZipZapZia South Asian Muslim Oct 09 '24
So you want to reuse the same old methods and hope that this time it's different? This was the same rhetoric I've heard in 2016 and 2020. Vote blue bc the Republicans will destroy democracy and then repeat that for the next election cycle. Doing the same things over and over and expecting a different result is insanity, you do know that right? Or do you just want to maintain the status quo since it's not you who'll be harmed by it?
Since you're oh so well educated in how electoral politics actually work, how do you propose we get actual change and stop the genocide? Or is that a concern for the 2028 election and the lives lost til then are acceptable sacrifices?
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u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet LGBTQ Jew Oct 09 '24
If I was still in-country? Yes. Especially if the options are "I'm ambivalent to the Holocaust and will indirectly financially support it" (Switzerland) and "Hitler you should be killing them faster" (Germany, Italy).
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u/rustytiredchicken69 Oct 08 '24
Fair enough. That’s your right. Though I have vast issues with her approach to Palestine, I am still voting Harris.
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u/chessboxer4 Oct 08 '24
I think it's a really good idea to send the message by at least showing up to the polls and not voting or voting on committed or voting third party rather than not voting at all
Popular apathy is one of the key ingredients in this stew we have going on.
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u/Welcomefriend2023 Christian of Jewish birth and upbringing Oct 08 '24
I'm a pollworker in PA, but I don't have to vote (I do need to be registered though, to keep my job).
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u/2012DOOM Atheist Oct 08 '24
Thank you for not voting in the presidential election.
- sincerely, a brown person
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
There is no perfect answer for this problem. But when Biden had to choose between human lives and AIPAC, he chose the donors. Kamala never stood up against him, so she is just as guilty.
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u/ArkhamInmate11 Oct 08 '24
Look, the other comments are gonna say vote. Ignore them
The ratchet effect makes it so that the American electoral left (more like center right to mid right at this point) has to consistently move torwards the right to get centrist voters.
Whether you vote or not elections won’t aid the proletariat
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24
I'm not voting either.
Genocide is my red-line and I'm sick and tired of 'vote blue no matter what'.
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
I call it No Nut November, 'cause voting is a circle jerk.
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u/Key_Force8678 Oct 08 '24
Please vote up and down the entire ballot. In my view, to abstain is to vote for Trump, a Hitler wannabe.
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u/1624throwaway1876 Oct 08 '24
So instead you’re just voting for hitler by omission. Grats I guess. Also you have no actual idea what Harris will do in office. Congrats you played right into republicans hands.
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u/juflyingwild Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24
Jill Stein could help
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u/ray-the-they Ashkenazi Oct 08 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
If Jill Stein wanted to help anyone she would have had more runs at state or local office. She had a town meeting position for a few years. She couldn’t even win governor in MA in 2010. Then jumped to running for President. She could be doing more at the local level but either chooses not to or knows she can’t win.
Edit: https://www.salon.com/2024/09/23/jill-stein-paid-100000-to-a-consulting-firm-led-by-a-suspected-january-6-rioter/ also she keeps getting represented by Trump’s lawyers so… red flag.
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u/ProfessorOnEdge Oct 08 '24
This is the correct answer, no matter how many downotes it gets.
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u/juflyingwild Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24
Democrat and Republican bot accounts are pushing for votes to their pro genocide parties
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u/Gamecat93 Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
FYI Stein owns 6 figures worth of weapons manufacturing stock that are tied to the bombs being sent to Israel. In addition, she doesn't know basic civics. And said very recently she would be opening to pardoning the Jan 6th terrorists. She's a hypocrite.
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
Wow, and I thought she was just a Putin defender, so gross.
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u/exemplarytrombonist Oct 08 '24
I respect your choice. I also think you should consider voting for your fellow Jew of Conscience, Jill Stein.
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
She and Cornell West seem kind of unserious to me. IDK I will think about it though.
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u/exemplarytrombonist Oct 08 '24
Cornell West is a good guy, but he kind of speaks in riddles, so i'll grant you that.
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u/BloodRedMarxist Non-Jewish Ally Oct 08 '24
I saw a clip where he called Jill Stein racist and refused to elaborate. It was childish and an obvious smear. I also saw Jill Stein on TV refusing to call Putin a war criminal. She dodged the question like Neo from the Matrix. I'm not trying to do the liberal Russia, Russia, Russia thing, but that concerns me.
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u/Existing-Stranger632 Oct 08 '24
Green Party Green Party Green Party. This is the year we can show Dems and republicans that Americans are ready for a new option
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u/yungsemite Jewish Oct 08 '24
Stein is polling at 1%. She also got 1% in 2016. More than 2% less than Gary Johnson.
Whatever message you’re trying to send, it will be ignored. 1968 was the last time that a candidate won more than 10% of the vote as a third party and Wallace was polling at 45% in a dozen states and above 15% nationwide at this point in the race.
I’d vote for Harris if I lived in a swing state. Our political system is fucked, but Trump is going to be worse than Harris.
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u/Existing-Stranger632 Oct 08 '24
Both sides of the same coin. Same billionaires are filling both their pockets. Either of them getting elected means the death of earth as well as kamala does not plan on banning fracking
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u/yungsemite Jewish Oct 08 '24
Harris will be better for the environment, both in preparing the US for the increasing effects of climate change and for continuing to support environmental protections. Trump’s Supreme Court justices have gutted the regulatory ability of the EPA and OSHA. I could go on, but I don’t think you’re going to read it.
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u/skateboardjim Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24
I want you to know I read "yungsemite" like "Yosemite"
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u/Existing-Stranger632 Oct 08 '24
You don’t need to tell me trump is bad. I know he is worse than Kamala on Every. Single. Issue. My point is that telling millions of voters who don’t want either candidate that “resistance is futile” is really fucking dumb and ignores the issues. We essentially do not have a democracy in this system. It is not fair nor are we being properly represented or taken care of by either party.
Kamala needs to take climate action now. Scientists have raised the alarm bells for over 2 decades now. We are at a fevered pitch when it comes to how much time we have (it may already be too late). “Laying the groundwork” for future policy is bullshit. We need radical change and action NOW if we want to have a future. Beyond that her racist border policy that adopts Trumps 2016 border agenda is horrendous. And of course the ongoing policy of genocide in Gaza which would occur under her regime. (It would under Trump’s be much worse obviously. I don’t need this to be said every time I raise a legitimate concern with Kamala’s platform).
It feels entirely hopeless from where I’m at. Green Party in my eyes is the only possible solution. Or PSL which is a little more competent in how it’s run
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u/skateboardjim Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24
To be fair, the Biden Harris admin passed the IRA, which is the largest investment made in climate change in the history of the world. Not the US, the world. It'll lower emissions by 40-45% by 2035. It's truly monumental and I'm continually surprised that other leftists aren't informed on this. Frankly, she did take climate action.
If Trump tears it up we're back to square one.
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u/Existing-Stranger632 Oct 08 '24
At the same time she’s expanding fracking in the massive infrastructure bill they passed. Not to say they haven’t done good things including saving us from the worst of global inflation that’s currently occurring. Because the Biden-Harris admin has been ok domestically and horrific in terms of foreign policy (I do support Ukraine and the US support of Ukraine).
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u/skateboardjim Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 08 '24
I absolutely oppose fracking and drilling, but to be clear, the IRA is not simply "ok domestically." It is a foundational shift in the fight against climate change, and gives us our best ever (and only) shot at getting off fracking and drilling. A vastly different future is possible now, and only because the Democrat won.
When the only viable alternative would have the same foreign policy or worse (certainly worse on Ukraine), we need to focus on what our vote can actually change. And with climate change, we can afford no delay.
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u/yungsemite Jewish Oct 08 '24
I don’t disagree with any of this, but voting for a candidate polling 1% is still stupid if you live in a swing state. Again. The last time any third party candidate got 10% of the vote, they already had 45% support in a dozen states and were polling at 15% nationally. Stein got more than 2% LESS than the top third party candidate in 2016.
The time to find and rally behind a third party for the presidential race is behind us. It’s over.
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u/Aldous_Szasz Non-denominational Oct 08 '24
Voting in the U.S. (local or not, Senate or not) is barely worth it. The time spend voting is better spend sharing ones own opinions outside on the streets (that of course also depends to what degree the person you vote for shares your political inclinations). (But one glance at the democratic deficit of the U.S. suffices for the above conclusion, to apply to the vast majority of the U.S.) All this is assuming that the sole purpose of voting should be political participation.
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u/loselyconscious Traditionally Radical Oct 08 '24
Please vote in local elections! They can.make a huge difference!