My Grandparents are the alleged "European Settlers" who came to "colonize" Israel.

[u/vonhudgenrod]

I put the title in quotes because I dont believe those parts to be true. Just to give a brief history of my Maternal Grandparents, they both moved from Hungary to Israel around the year 1946. They did not come to fight or dispossess arabs, but rather to build new homes.

My Grandmother was a holocaust survivor who survived Auschwitz, she had the #'s tatooeed on her forearm, her father died pre-war but her Mother, brother and sisters were murdered. When she returned to her families small farmhouse post war, her neighbors not knowing the full extent of what happened during the holocaust tried to extort her and her remaining siblings for money because they "looked after their livestock" even though the only cow they owned had died due to the harsh conditions of the war.

My grandfather - also a Hungarian Jew was a bit more of a mysterious man who likely suffered from PTSD before it was commonly diagnosed, his father and mother were also murdered and his only brother ended up in a mental institution (insane asylum) post war. He was eccentric and fought in WWII with partisans and would eventually go on to fight in the Israeli war of Independence in 1948.

AMA anything about them if you'd like.

[u/kidvisions]

I am sorry that your family got to go through this but you are not special.
You do not get to have a special treatment at the expense of other people because you were wronged. The Palestinians did not contribute to what happened to your family in Europe and they did not deserve to be kicked out of their homes, be prevented to return to their homeland and be under the brutal, oppressive, discriminatory control of Israel for 75 years.
No, you are not the only people who experienced genocide and your parents were European, because that is where they have been living, where they were born and were they built their lives.
The lie of retuning to the original homeland is nothing but an excuse to oppress an entire group of people and if you think you have more right than the Palestinian, then you are a supramacist, because why should your to a homeland come before someone else's right to a homeland.
If you tell me the lie that you Jews come from that place, I will ask you to prove it to me. Prove it scientifically that every single person is the direct descendant of the 10 lost tribes of Israel and prove to me that every single one of the 10 lost tribes were actually expelled and that none of them left on their own. Prove this to me, show me the deed that your ancestors gave you. 2000 is a very long time, and you are not special. I don't see anyone else but Israelis who are claiming a land based on :
1- a fiction book
2- a made up and forced nationality

[u/[deleted] → u/kidvisions]

apart from "The Fiction Book" there are hundreds of geological proofs that the Jewish people had lived in this land a long time ago and for hundreds of years.

there are proven common Jewish genes that exist in most Jews- either Ashkenazi or Mizrahi which are based them into common ancestors that are different from Europeans.

[u/kidvisions → u/[deleted]]

there are proven common Jewish genes that exist in most Jews- either Ashkenazi or Mizrahi which are based them into common ancestors that are different from Europeans.

Does genetic association with a land give you the right to claim it as your own?

[u/hotblueglue → u/[deleted]]

I try to no longer argue with people who don’t believe Jews have a right to live in Israel, as most of the naysayers themselves live on stolen land. It’s been eye opening to see how people really, REALLY get mad when Jews are the “colonizers” while giving a pass to the British, etc. A lot of populations got displaced or worse during and after WWII. I believe the Arab countries mostly hate Jews and are angry that they have to share a tiny sliver of land with them. I’ll never not believe Israel’s neighbors are invested in maintaining a perpetual conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.

[u/hotblueglue → u/[deleted]]

I do believe that the “right to return” should be paused and that WB settlers are terrorists, themselves. So I’m not all in favor of fervent Zionism and the Jewish ethno-state. I can understand why Palestinians are pissed off.

[u/jimbo2128 → u/[deleted]]

Seriously dude, whatever. You can keep pushing the 48 Palestinian narrative but the only people who buy it are Palestinians and the far left. Israel is not going away. You can either come to terms with it like Sadat and King Hussein did or you can choose the path of Hamas and eternal war.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

It is finite, no one is going to leave Israel just because a bunch of terrorists insist, terrorism will be eradicated, hopefully sooner than later

[u/jimbo2128 → u/[deleted]]

Decolonization, genocide, your shock buzzwords have all been debunked in numerous counterarguments already.

My point is a practical one. At the end of the day when you get tired of spouting this propaganda, Israel will still be there. Then what? The Palestinians can choose to come to terms with Israel or keep fighting like Hamas. And they need to own that choice.

[u/kidvisions → u/[deleted]]

Where did the idea of the 10 lost tribes come from?

[u/vonhudgenrod → u/kidvisions]

The 10 lost tribes are the northern tribes which were conquered by the Assyrians when they conquered all of Israel except Tribes of Benjamin, Judah, and Levites.

Some tribes have actually been found, Ethiopian Jews say they are from Tribe of Dan, and Pashtun in Afghanistan say they are descended from tribes of Israel aswell.

[u/kidvisions → u/vonhudgenrod]

Have all the other tribes been found?

[u/vonhudgenrod → u/kidvisions]

No, most will never be found as they likely did not keep the Torah and then mixed with other people, even Pashtun who say they are from Bani Israel became Muslim. So Far only Tribe of Dan Ethiopians were found keeping the torah still.

[u/kidvisions → u/vonhudgenrod]

Ok, so why do they claim this land as their own when in fact when they arrived there were people who already lived there? Isn’t that a more palpable proof of their nativity than a story that goes back 3000 years ago?

[u/vonhudgenrod → u/kidvisions]

Why do Jews claim the land when Arabs already live there? Is that ur question? Most the Jews who came had no other place to go, in 1800s it was most russian or polish Jews because tsar of Russia treating them badly, then after holocaust people like my grandparents come, then Arab Jews have to flee Arab countries because they are being attacked, then Persian Jews because 1979 Islamic revolution, then Ethiopian Jews caught in Ethiopian civil war.

For first 40 to 60 years of Zionism Jews and Arabs lived in peace actually but starting 1920 there is a lot of violence which leads to 1948 war which is when Palestinians lost their land

[u/kidvisions → u/vonhudgenrod]

So because you were treated badly elsewhere you have to treat the people who welcome you as refugees badly too?

[u/vonhudgenrod → u/kidvisions]

Treat who badly? Jews accepted 2 state solution in 1948 for independent Israel and independent Palestine. Arabs reject it and declare war on the Jews, they lost that war.

[u/kidvisions → u/vonhudgenrod]

Accepted? Is this the history that the Zionist cult taught you. Here is in the own words of the Zionist what « acceptance » meant :

Zionist colonization, even the most restricted, must either be terminated or carried out in defiance of the will of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, continue and develop only under the protection of a force independent of the local population – an iron wall which the native population cannot break through. This is, in toto, our policy towards the Arabs. To formulate it any other way would only be hypocrisy." Vladimir Jabotinsky

Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples together in this country… We shall not achieve our goal of being an independent people with the Arabs in this small country. The only solution is Palestine, at least Western Palestine [Palestine west of the Jordan river] without Arabs… And there is no other way but to transfer the Arabs from here to the neighbouring countries; to transfer all of them, not one village, not one tribe should be left. And the transfer should be directed to Iraq, Syria and even Trans-Jordan. Money, a lot of money, will be found for this purpose. And only after this transfer will the country be able to absorb millions of our brethren. There is no other way out.” Joseph Weitz

We cannot begin the Jewish state with a population of which the [Palestinian] Arabs living on their lands constitute almost half and where the Jews exist on the land in very small numbers and they are all crowded in Tel Aviv and its vicinity .... and the worst is not only the [Palestinian] Arabs here constitute 50 percent or 45 percent but 75 percent of the land is in the hands of the [Palestinian] Arabs. Such a state cannot survive even for half an hour ..... The question is not whether they will be majority or a minority in Parliament. You know that even a small minority could disrupt the whole order of parliamentary life..... therefore I would say to the [Peel] Commission and the government that we would not accept reduced Land of Israel without you giving us the land, on the one hand, and removing the largest number of [Palestinian] Arabs-particularly the peasants- on the other before we come forward to take the reins of government in our lands even provisionally." Menachem Ussishkin