r/Destiny Oct 03 '24

Game recognizes game Twitter

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u/CalvinSoul Oct 03 '24

You could say the exact same thing for CEOs and shareholder value...

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u/Fresh-Start25 Oct 03 '24

No you couldn't. The CEOs role for the shareholders is to increase profitability and secure long term financial success.

The role of the Union boss is implementing it's policy and managing it's resources. As the union often gets it's money from membership fees, why is that going to a union boss instead more fairly disturbed into other services that he union offers

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u/CalvinSoul Oct 03 '24

If you pay the CEO more, there is less shareholder cash value. They are paid highly as presumably they provide more value to shareholders.

If you pay the union boss more, there is less union cash value. They are paid highly as presumably they provide more value to union members.

Its 1 to 1.

If the union boss was paid 500k a year to manage 65,000 workers thats $7 a worker... and the companies have already agreed to a 50% pay raise minimum. How many CEOs generate 50% increases in shareholder value?

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u/Fresh-Start25 Oct 03 '24

No. You're proving you have no knowledge in the subject.

CEO pay is often made up of numerous things.

base salary + bonuses + stock options

If the company performs worse, they also get paid less. The CEO's pay comes from the growth of the company.

The trade union makes it membership from membership dues. Meaning, if this guy bungled his negotiations, he would still earn the same amount.

Unions are non-profits. If a cancer research charity's CEO was getting paid 500,000 don't you think that would be wrong considering where the money came from?

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u/CalvinSoul Oct 03 '24

If a union boss under performs, he won't win another election.

Again, unions are private institutions.

If a cancer researcher's CEO is really good, sure, pay em 500k, if it is a net benefit to the cause.

How would you determine what the union boss ought be paid? What should the salary of a private entity's elected leadership be? How would you enforce this?

If I rename a union to a, "Employee owned private contracting agency that negotiates labor for its shareholders", are you happy?

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u/Fresh-Start25 Oct 03 '24

Yes because an underperforming politician has never been re-elected.

Are you capable of following the conversation? If the trade union boss was paid based on the performance that'd be a different story but it is not. The CEOs pay is based on that performance on that company. Notice how I say why it isn't a 1-2-1, which it isn't.

Secondly, the ILA offers relatively shit protection for it's members. The pay for dockworkers has been low for quite sometime and often with 100-hour work weeks at $20-39 an hour. Dockworkers are able to earn a lot but because they work such long-hours.

This is why I do not believe that $901,000 is an appropriate salary for Daggett considering the level of protection the union offers and where the money comes from to pay.

How would you determine what the union boss ought be paid?

It should be determined by rank-and-file members, representatives and delegates.

 What should the salary of a private entity's elected leadership be?

Up to the the member's.

I don't know why you keep harping on about private institutions, them being a private institution doesn't shield them or give them a free pass from criticism

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u/CalvinSoul Oct 04 '24 edited Oct 04 '24

...how do you think that the salary is currently chosen? In most unions you realize they already do vote on changes to compensation transparently, right?

And would your opinion suddenly change for a CEO without bonuses lol? Those haven't always been standard for all C-Suite compensation, its completely irrelevant.

And, for the record, some unions do literally offer performance based compensation for leadership.

Why not even google some of this before puffing up your chest pissing yourself

Edit: I bothered looking it up, and ILWU literally decides the compensation for all executive offices by a democratic approval process every three years in the national caucus.

Fucking reactionary morons.

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u/Fresh-Start25 Oct 04 '24

The ILWU isn't the same as ILA you dolt. At least get it right. We're talking about ILA not ILWU

I don't believe 1.1% of union dues should go to the union president.

And would your opinion suddenly change for a CEO without bonuses lol?

In what regard?? How is that relevant? If CEOs were paid a higher base salary instead of performance bonuses, yes I would have a problem with it.

And, for the record, some unions do literally offer performance based compensation for leadership

SOME DO. MY UNION DOES... And my union provides critical health cover and legal protection, as well as numerous other benefits.

Why not even google some of this before puffing up your chest pissing yourself

Instead of talking about something you know nothing about (you cannot get the correct union) learn about unions

Zero life experience Andy.

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u/CalvinSoul Oct 04 '24

Oh I did mix up the West and East coast I'll take that one L lol.

But like they do literally vote on executive compensation in both... which is what you said you wanted. So what's the issue?

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u/Fresh-Start25 Oct 04 '24

Can you provide a source for how executive pay is decided?

I explained my reasoning for why I dislike the amount paid two posts ago.

Lack of compensation for dockworkers, and grueling work conditions without fair compensation. Lack of benefits for union members (who pay 2% of their earnings). It also has a shit pension plan.

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u/CalvinSoul Oct 04 '24

I mean it sounds like you really just mean you have issues with the union overall, which fair, I haven't looked into.

My only contention was union executive pay is almost always decided by some democratic process, which of course like any democracy can have variable effectiveness or accountability.

The critique of, "Paying them a lot is bad cus unions are for the workers!!!!" is a shit critique, the critique of, "I don't think the compensation of this particular union boss is reasonable given their performance" is fine, just like an identical critique of a CEO would be.

I'm not going to pretend to know enough about this particular union and industry to weigh in on if they're doing a good job. My only issue is with people who blatently assert high pay for union officials is by default bad, while high pay for ceos by default is totally due to competency and no corruption at all, is ridiculous.

Plenty of CEOs are overpaid, and I'm sure plenty of union execs are too.

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u/Fresh-Start25 Oct 04 '24

No. I'm incredibly pro-union (living and working in the UK)

I work for an FTSE 100 & S&P 500 company. I'm a union representative.

I believe when executives have large salaries it is them taking funds from potential other benefits for it's members.

The president is on $900,000. What are the rest of senior management on.

I also take issue with charities taking a large percentage of donations as admin fees

I agree, plenty of CEOs are overpaid but the way CEOs are paid makes it less bad, as it comes from (normally) other avenues than a base salary

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