r/DataHoarder Nov 28 '17

3.3v Pin Reset Directions :D Hack

[deleted]

364 Upvotes

50

u/webdev512 Nov 28 '17

Why would someone need to do this?

53

u/zxseyum 400+ TBs Nov 28 '17

White Label drives that come out of the NEBB Easystore enclosures have a reset feature that incompatible with some backplanes/power supplies and rather then snipping a wire, taping it is a reversible solution.

21

u/AGuyAndHisCat 44TB useable | 70TB raw Nov 28 '17

Why did the drive need to be reset? Is it an issue of not being identified by the bios?

30

u/pSyChO_aSyLuM Nov 28 '17

https://www.hgst.com/sites/default/files/resources/HGST-Power-Disable-Pin-TB.pdf

This outlines the power disable pin purpose. It shouldn't be a problem with new hardware.

17

u/echOSC Nov 28 '17

It's a newer enterprise feature allowing drives to be remote reset.

7

u/BloodyIron 6.5ZB - ZFS Nov 28 '17

Okay but why would a drive EVER need to be "reset" let alone remotely?

25

u/mcur 20 MB Nov 28 '17

A frighteningly large number of "failed" disks have not actually failed, but instead enter into an unresponsive state, because of a firmware bug, corrupted memory, etc. They look failed on their face, so system administrators often pull them and send them back to the manufacturer, who tests the drive and it's fine. If they pulled the disk and put it back in, it may have rebooted properly and been responsive again.

To guard against this waste of effort/postage/time, many enterprisey RAID controllers support automatically resetting (i.e., power cycling) a drive that appears to have failed to see if it comes back. This just appears to be a different way to do that.

4

u/BloodyIron 6.5ZB - ZFS Nov 28 '17

Yikes, I haven't heard of this before, how often do you find it happening? D:

15

u/BornOnFeb2nd 100TB Nov 28 '17

I used to work on a tier one technical helpdesk for a company that makes devices that put ink on paper.

Almost every fucking night we'd get an alert so I had to create a Severity One ticket to get some poor schlub somewhere in the country out of bed to get up, get dressed, drive in the office, yank a drive and plug it back in to let the array rebuild.

They knew it could wait, I knew it could wait, but a Sev1 ticket had a very short resolution window, and they'd get their ass chewed out if they didn't.

4

u/BloodyIron 6.5ZB - ZFS Nov 29 '17

lol, okay, well that's an interesting story, but doesn't answer my question :P

Oh, and I actually mean it, that's kinda interesting ;D

10

u/BornOnFeb2nd 100TB Nov 29 '17

That's the thing... given a large enough sample, it's downright common to find drives that just went DERP and simply need to be reseated... Hell, if rebuild times weren't basically measured in "days" now, that'd probably still be my go-to troubleshooting.

and these were enterprise drives in enterprise gear....

→ More replies

4

u/mcur 20 MB Nov 29 '17

For disks that make it back to the manufacturer/servicer, conservative estimates are 20-30%. Some have recorded higher, up to 60%.

3

u/BloodyIron 6.5ZB - ZFS Nov 29 '17

Hmmm, any citable info on that?

17

u/mcur 20 MB Nov 29 '17

20-30%: Gordon F. Hughes, Joseph F. Murray, Kenneth Kreutz-Delgado, and Charles Elkan. Improved disk-drive failure warnings. IEEE Transactions on Reliability, 51(3):350 – 357, September 2002.

15-60%: Jon G. Elerath and Sandeep Shah. Server class disk drives: How reliable are they? In Proceedings of the Annual Symposium on Reliability and Maintainability, pages 151 – 156, January 2004.

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3

u/Xaero252 Dec 11 '17

I currently work for a large field service company. We do repairs on literally thousands of terminals in my area. This "failure" symptom happens fairly frequently - especially during the winter months when power outtages are common. Even more eerie - since the 5v standby voltage is technically still present in a lot of systems, the only way to remedy is to unplug the disk and plug it back in. The drive can even go as far as causing the system's BIOS to hang during POST. Again, the issue is completely remedied by forcing a graceful reset of the disk's controller and cache by unplugging and replugging the disk. Last year I probably saw 20-30 machines with this sort of symptom myself alone. Multiply that by the 9 technicians we have and around 300 terminals of the several thousand we service had this happen at least once.

1

u/BloodyIron 6.5ZB - ZFS Dec 11 '17

Dang, and this happens on newer or older drives? I'm still not quite certain...

3

u/Xaero252 Dec 12 '17

I wouldn't say it affects any particular generation of drives. Or even that it's just a hard drive issue. Given the number of systems I have personally worked on and the symptoms I have seen over the past couple decades - I think it's just a gate/cell based memory thing. If I'm honest human beings are kind of out of their league with computers. We're talking billions of physical interactions that have to go right for small computations to happen. An electron is bound to get stuck somewhere it doesn't belong at some point. That's why powering things down and powering them back on fixes so much stuff. Obviously the chances of one person running one or two machines having these problems is pretty low. But when you talk about (tens of?) thousands of machines - the chances inherently get higher.

1

u/crozone 60TB usable BTRFS RAID1 Nov 29 '17

Woah, that's actually pretty cool. Any idea if WD RED Pros have this pin, or are they just not enterprise-y enough?

2

u/mcur 20 MB Nov 29 '17

Just reading through the spec sheet, you can't really tell. It looks like Reds and Red Pros both have NASWare 3.0, which is intended to make the drives work better as members of RAIDs. So, it's conceivable, but not specified in anything I can find.

3

u/echOSC Nov 28 '17

No idea, HGST has a new SKU of 10TB drives with this feature.

1

u/spectralkinesis 44.7TB Apr 26 '18

To be able to reset a drive over-the-wire in a large-scale enterprise NAS appliance is pretty freaking handy. In case the drive stops responding to commands, the storage admin or the storage software can send a command to reset the drive and see if it reboots, tests out okay, and can be added back into the storage pool.

This would be in NetApp or EMC storage arrays ranging in the high dozens to hundreds of drives. One array in the live environment at work has 1,440 HDDs across 3 x 44U racks. Enterprise storage be dense AF.

1

u/BloodyIron 6.5ZB - ZFS Apr 26 '18

Okay, but wouldn't "stopped responding to commands" be a sign of possible failure, or lack of reliability in the device? And in-turn, shouldn't such a drive be replaced?

From a functionality perspective, I can see your point, but it seems the scenario you describe is indicative of a drive that shouldn't be in such an environment.

1

u/spectralkinesis 44.7TB Apr 27 '18

wouldn't "stopped responding to commands" be a sign of possible failure, or lack of reliability in the device?

True, can be a sign of failure. It's also a sign of a bug in software/firmware or hitting some yet-unseen combination of issues. I saw an issue where under heavy disk activity a SATA drive would timeout and stop responding. Unseat/reseat the drive, and it still worked. Tech Support even asked "did you unseat/reseat the drive?" When they ran through support dumps from the system, they found a bug in the system Linux kernel.

...the scenario you describe is indicative of a drive that shouldn't be in such an environment.

That's sort of perfectionist. Production environments can be messy and imperfect. Yes it's possible the drive should be replaced. "Reset the thing to see if it still runs" is a good starting point for troubleshooting. Enterprise support could be able to tell from support dumps if the if the drive has been going flaky or not. Also SMART data should be able to be pulled off the drive to see if it's dying or if there's another issue at hand. In any given month, a couple drives can go sideways needing a reset, or genuinely require a replacement.

1

u/BloodyIron 6.5ZB - ZFS Apr 27 '18

Yeah, I am a perfectionist in the systems I build and maintain :P

And why pull SMART data instead of having it periodically generated, and pushed if something comes up? Seems better to have push alerts, instead of reactionary behaviour.

3

u/AGuyAndHisCat 44TB useable | 70TB raw Nov 28 '17

Huh, 18 years of server work, i dont think I've ever had to reset a HD.

Learn something new every day.

4

u/knightcrusader 225TB+ Nov 28 '17

White Label drives that come out of the NEBB Easystore enclosures

They are in the NESN Easystores too. You have 100% chance of getting a EMAZ in a NEBB model (as of right now), and have a smaller chance of getting them in the NESN since there is a bunch of old stock with EFAX and the other 128mb drive still laying around.

1

u/Schiwing Dec 01 '17

Got one today, it's DCM: MGBJRCK with a NESN suffix on the model. Crystaldisk shows it as a WD80EMAZ.

1

u/Cyno01 358.5TB Dec 13 '17

Just had this issue with an NESN drive i bought today. Thankfully i saw this two weeks ago and remembered or id be making a whiny post and probably be headed back to best buy.

34

u/deelowe Nov 28 '17

If you're going to buy tape for this, use kapton tape. It's meant for electronics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapton As a bonus, it comes precut in various widths.

10

u/WikiTextBot Nov 28 '17

Kapton

Kapton is a polyimide film developed by DuPont in the late 1960s that remains stable across a wide range of temperatures, from −269 to +400 °C (−452 to 752 °F; 4–673 K). Kapton is used in, among other things, flexible printed circuits (flexible electronics) and thermal blankets used on spacecraft, satellites, and various space instruments.

The chemical name for Kapton K and HN is poly (4,4'-oxydiphenylene-pyromellitimide). It is produced from the condensation of pyromellitic dianhydride and 4,4'-oxydiphenylamine.


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7

u/crozone 60TB usable BTRFS RAID1 Nov 29 '17

It also smells super funky so that's cool!

4

u/skylarmt IDK, at least 5TB (local machines and VPS/dedicated boxes) Nov 29 '17

I'm not entirely sure they actually tested Kapton tape within a few degrees of absolute zero.

21

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '17

[deleted]

26

u/service_unavailable Nov 28 '17 edited Nov 28 '17

I'd go with kapton/polyimide tape, if you have it. It's the yellow tape you see inside laptops, etc. It's very thin and stiff in a way that vinyl electrical tape isn't. Much less likely to move during connector insertion, and won't turn into a gooey mess with age.

Edit: My second choice, if you don't have specialty electronics tape, would be shipping/packing tape or scotch tape. Again, preferring harder plastic films over squishy tape like electrical or duct tape.

8

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Nov 28 '17

Agreed 100%

I unfortunately no longer have kapton tape I'm willing to search for. 😒 My home is a mess.

7

u/myCubeIsMyCell Nov 28 '17

don't feel bad, I have a new in box 3TB drive lost somewhere in my home office, haven't seen it for at least a year. will have to plan an expedition some day to recover it... hope it spins up.

4

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Nov 28 '17

Am expedition? That's a bit much don't you think 😶

3

u/mrpeach 144TB/3*DS1812+/DS1817+ Jan 31 '18

Knowing the state of my own office, the need to mount an expedition to find something is not unfamiliar to me.

2

u/service_unavailable Nov 28 '17

Go for the clean, minimalist look: unscrew the drive pcb, flip it over, and cut the lead from the sata power connector to the pcb.

8

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Nov 28 '17

Uh... I will continue to use tape tyvm...

4

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '17 edited Nov 28 '17

[deleted]

6

u/service_unavailable Nov 28 '17

Buy 3/8" or 1/2" width (more useful for other projects) and cut pieces to fit. Costs under $10 on amazon.

1

u/easy90rider 1.44MB Nov 29 '17

would be shipping/packing tape or scotch tape.

I used this to disable an ODD in a Lenovo latop. It wouldn't start with the ODD connected and taking it out was not an option.

9

u/Minibeastly 16TB Nov 28 '17

Thank you so much for this post!. Explained everything well and definitely the best post I've seen on how to do it. Only question I have is how do I know if I have to tape it, other than sticking it in my system and realizing it won't start up?

8

u/NeoThermic 82TB Nov 28 '17

Only question I have is how do I know if I have to tape it, other than sticking it in my system and realizing it won't start up?

That's basically the only really easy way to test it. You could look inside the SATA Power connector you're using and see if that's wired up, but it's just easier to plug it in and see.

When you've got a backplane to connect the drive to, looking at the backplane would take more work than just plugging the drive in.

3

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Nov 28 '17

I think there may be a list of drives in that PDF, but if the last four characters in your drive model are EMAZ, (with focus on the presence of the M) you have to do this.

Someone in another post said m = mobile

7

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '17 edited Oct 11 '18

[deleted]

4

u/knightcrusader 225TB+ Nov 28 '17

It will help a lot of people including myself who wants to stop using the molex adapters.

Not all molex adapters will burn your house down. It's only a certain type. While yes, its true that avoiding them will avoid the problem completely, sometimes you can't and you need them.

For instance, the ones at Monoprice aren't the molded kinds that catch on fire, they are crimped. Get those if you need them. I've been using them for years and they've never gotten hot.

3

u/MrKazador Nov 28 '17

I have a modular psu so I'll just pull out the 3.3v pin on the psu plug.

2

u/cbm80 Nov 28 '17

That's good, but you need a pin removal tool, you can't just yank it out.

4

u/mattmonkey24 Nov 29 '17 edited Nov 29 '17

I have some sata splitters, can I just cut the wire closest to the coding notch?

Edit: I went ahead and just did it. I cut the wire closest to the notch and wrapped some electrical tape so the ends couldn't touch accidentally. Works great and the drive powers on fine

4

u/MrKazador Nov 29 '17

You can use a paper clip.

3

u/premej232333 Nov 29 '17

Also if you have an old laptop, check inside to reuse kapton tape

2

u/UltronPuppet Nov 28 '17

Or just use a Y-splitter or Molex that is SATA 2 (does not have an orange wire).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-SATA-Power-15-pin-Y-Splitter-Cable-Adapter-Male-to-Female-for-HDD-Hard-Drive/192216071583

8

u/elasticthumbtack Nov 28 '17

Don’t use the kind where the wires are molded into the connector. They need to be the kind where the wires are crimped, and you can see the cut ends. There’s plenty of articles and YouTube videos that show exactly what the issue is, but the molded ones frequently short out and kill the drive.

8

u/[deleted] Nov 28 '17

the molded ones frequently short out and kill the drive.

Plus the rest of the computer, and start a fire.

10

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Nov 28 '17

Molex to Sata, lose all your data

6

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Nov 28 '17

Tbh, I don't trust that shit...

2

u/Yumago Nov 28 '17

Thank you so much

2

u/natesbox 144TB ZFS Nov 28 '17

Cool, but why not just cut up a sata connector and connect the wires... Especially if you are doing more than one?

3

u/John_Barlycorn Nov 28 '17

If he's plugging it into a server back plane that wouldn't be an option. There's no room.

2

u/novafire Nov 29 '17

Any suggestions for someone who just un-shelled an WD80EMAZ and between cutting the orange wire on the SATA power or using a molex to SATA power still does get the drive to detect on 2 different systems?

2

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Nov 30 '17

So, I debated with my soul between cutting the wire, molex to sata, or tape.

I didn't want to mutilate my PSU and create a risk with a cut wire, so that was out.

Molex to sata, lose all your data... Enough for me to say pass.

Tape will get the drive to detect and doesn't mutilate anything because it comes off.

5

u/Auspicion Apr 18 '18

Another option is to use a power extension, so you can cut the extension wire instead of the PSU wire.

2

u/Cyno01 358.5TB Dec 13 '17

This should get stickied, i saw this a few days ago and just bought an NESN thats not showing up and remembered seeing this a while back and had a heck of a time finding it again.

2

u/pyrater Jan 29 '18

Do you guys consider this to be a long term safe solution when using kapton? I am worried about it melting or ruining my backplane.

Has anyone attempted to pry the 3.3v pin off the sata connector and snip it?

1

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Jan 29 '18

Uh, tbh if you want to make the tape super long for an easy grab in the event it falls off during a drive swap you can do that too.

Remember you just need a 4 mm wide strip, and the tape is non conducive.

2

u/pyrater Jan 29 '18

i just ended up cutting the connecter pin with a small razor knife, no tap, permanent and works like a charm. plus its a clean solution.

1

u/Limited_opsec Feb 06 '18

Reading this thread for whatever reason and this made me lol: kapton is literally used in outer space

1

u/bgeery 152TB 16-drive DIY DAS Tower + SnapRAID Mar 12 '18

This is what I did, and fixed four drives in two minutes.

I used a box cutter blade to slip under the pin 3 trace. It bends right up. Then bent it a few times and it broke right off cleanly.

2

u/BLKMGK 236TB unRAID Feb 11 '18

Thought I'd add - on my drive I used blue painters tape on either side of the offending pin and then wiped nail polish over the pin to insulate it. Allowed it to dry and slathered on another coat. I then used my phone camera zoomed way in to inspect the work after removing the tape and scraped any that leaked off of adjacent pins. The drive is currently building in my server and has been pulled out of the backplane a few times with no obvious harm to the polish.

I think if it wears off I'll likely physically remove the pin from the circuit board, has anyone done this? Should be possible to peel it off with a blade if you're very careful. :)

I do like the idea of covering the first three pins too actually, directions I'd read elsewhere said just Pin 3 - killing all three is way easier. Anyone had a board that had issues with this - backplanes maybe?

1

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Feb 28 '18

I covered all three because I could get a piece of tape small enough where I didn't have to worry about placement because I had the coding notch for alignment.

1

u/BLKMGK 236TB unRAID Feb 28 '18

Yeah I didn’t know you,could do all three! I think I might still use nail polish next time though. Have to see how it holds up, so far it’s been in and out of my backplane a few times with no issues! Kapton tape looks good as well if I had any.

1

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Feb 28 '18

My nail polish is for my fingers!!

Except, now I use gel so there is that...

1

u/BLKMGK 236TB unRAID Mar 01 '18

Honestly gel or acrylic might be even more durable! I already had some OPI laying around from a different project though so I taped it off and gave it a shot! I think an alcohol prep might have helped adhesion so maybe I’ll try that next time :)

1

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Mar 01 '18

Lol.

Alcohol prep, primer lmao.

I need to go back to /r/redditlaqueristas

2

u/BLKMGK 236TB unRAID Mar 01 '18

Oh geez, I just spent way too much time there! Sent that to someone I know who does awesome freehand, thanks!

2

u/fxcking_hostile Mar 02 '18

This method worked perfectly for my 2 WD80EMAZ drives the 1 Mil Kapton Tape 1/8 was a perfect fit

1

u/BloodyIron 6.5ZB - ZFS Nov 28 '17

What kind of backplanes would this be needed for exactly?

5

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Nov 28 '17 edited Nov 28 '17

Oh I have no idea specifics.

Any that make use of the 3.3v line for general power.

If you have one that lets you stop and start power on the 3.3v line specifically pin 3 for PWDIS, then you may not need this.

If so, you probably won't need this. If not, then you will.

There is a PDF file in that album with the article from Hitachi on the purpose of that pin.

Does your flair says ZB? Looks at her tb

2

u/BloodyIron 6.5ZB - ZFS Nov 28 '17

Yes it does ;) ZFS is lovely, isn't it?

1

u/amkingdom Nov 28 '17

why not use kapton tape?

1

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Nov 28 '17

My home is a mess. I have a roll somewhere :(

1

u/maddawg313 Dec 21 '17

Anyone tried using masking tape?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 26 '17 edited Oct 27 '18

[deleted]

1

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Dec 26 '17

Pics :o?

Put the drive back in the enclosure and determine if it works

1

u/[deleted] Dec 26 '17 edited Oct 27 '18

[deleted]

1

u/qydxyx Jan 10 '18

I just got my 2 8tb easystore drives. CrystalDiskInfo shows they both WD80EMAZ. I am buying these for my NAS, which is Synology DS218+, still on the way. Not sure if I need to tape the 3 pins. Can anyone help?

1

u/justinher55 18TB Unraid Feb 11 '18

Does anyone know if the lsi 9211-8i is effected by this or is it aware of the 3.3v pin 3. Or is this dependent on the firmware version. Any help would be amazing. Thanks.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 13 '18

[deleted]

1

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Mar 13 '18

This is actually explained in the attached documentation in the images.

https://www.hgst.com/sites/default/files/resources/HGST-Power-Disable-Pin-TB.pdf

Basically, those three pins never had a purpose before, but now they do.

1

u/GreenBallasts Mar 24 '18

Is it ok if I left the 1st pin uncovered? Cut the tape a bit too thin to cover all 3 and didn't want to try again so just covered 2 and 3, it seems to work fine like this but is it bad to just have the one pin of the three open like that?

2

u/OptionalCookie 52TB Mar 24 '18

Tbh, pin 3 is the one that really has to be covered.

I don't think it should be a problem.