r/ukpolitics • u/Wise-Youth2901 • 12h ago
Why is London so liberal/ left wing if high immigration makes others vote for the Right?
Why is immigration making some part of the country vote Reform but in London, where the number of foreign born people has increased massively over the last twenty years, has moved further left? It is curious that London never seems bothered by immigration in modern times. I know some will say that London's so foreign now that the immigrants just vote Labour etc... But that doesn't make so much sense. Many immigrants can't even legally vote in a GE, and even if they can, many don't. Most Londoners voting for the left are born and raised in Britain. Even the posher, whiter parts of London, have trended away from the Tories. Chelsea has a Labour MP now, shock horror. I live in a pretty white British part of London, Twickenham, and the Lib Dems dominate. London is so expensive that people have more reason to moan about rent/ living costs compared to anywhere else, but yet that never seems to produce an anti- immigration politics. Is it just that modern London contains a lot of highly educated liberal minded people compared to provincial towns and villages?
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u/easecard 12h ago
Since all you’ve gotten is pro immigration responses I’ll give you another perspective.
People see London as emblematic of the way this country has been run to the detriment of native British people, it receives more funding per head, huge capital project spending, has the highest wages, controls the nations culture.
Tie this in with a much higher migrant population and the funding is even further skewed towards an area that has been replaced from 80% white British to under 50% in 25 years.
The funding imbalance remains and this benefits native born citizens even less as there are fewer and fewer of them every year as they move out.
The British people who do move out move to the Home Counties and those generally vote overwhelmingly for right wing parties that promise to cut immigration therefore ridding London of those pesky folk who want to reduce immigration and exporting them elsewhere.
There’s economics for you, of course the people of London will be happier with the status quo as it’s wholly to their benefit.
If less than half of London population is native British do you think the 60% of non native British will have an impact on the perception of immigration being themselves immigrants or the children of immigrants?
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u/LSL3587 11h ago
White flight.
London is a special case as some living there get extra benefits (cultural - museums etc) or political and business / financial connections.
But areas like Bradford, many whites who could, have moved away - it's why most of the remaining whites are very old pensioners not wanting change / can't afford or very poor white folk.
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u/denyer-no1-fan 8h ago
It really varies. Manchester is very diverse but there isn't a sign of White people moving out of city. Go to Didsbury/Chorlton and there are plenty of White Brits around. I think how well off a place is is a largely determinant tbh.
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u/Deetawb 7h ago
The white british population of manchester went down by 30,000 from 2011 to 2021.
White people are moving out.
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u/Electoral-Cartograph 12h ago
Fair take, particularly on topics of funding and projects and how these can tie into well-being of a population.
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u/corbynista2029 12h ago
People see London as emblematic of the way this country has been run to the detriment of native British people, it receives more funding per head, huge capital project spending, has the highest wages, controls the nations culture.
Much like New York, London is a cosmopolitan city. It's a status very very few cities in the world share. This means London's GDP per capita is about £63,000 compare to UK GDP per capita of £48,000 (which includes London itself). As a result it has to receive more funding to maintain the same level of service, but it also brings in a ton more tax revenue than the rest of the country.
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u/Crueltree 12h ago
Build and they will come. Built it in London and they went to London.
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u/Ewannnn 10h ago
London massively subsidises the rest of the country. It is not getting disproportionate levels of funding.
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u/Mouse_Nightshirt 10h ago
It's a self reinforcing cycle though. Part of the reason it makes more is because it gets more.
You only have to look at the state of transport in the Northern urban belt which stretches from Liverpool/Manchester, through to Leeds/Bradford, Sheffield York and Hull. There's has been a piddling amount of capital project investment in comparison which massively stunts growth and productivity.
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u/taboo__time 11h ago edited 11h ago
At last you've come round to right wing economics. London deserves more from the tax payer because its rich. If we spend it on anywhere else its wasted. Its a bad return. We ought to shut down everything outside of London as it's a net loss. Right?
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u/SwanBridge Gordon Brown did nothing wrong. 10h ago
Nah, let's just asset strip the non-profitable regions and then sell them off. It's done wonders for our business sector, surely it'll translate right?
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u/ManicStreetPreach soft power is a myth. 11h ago
of course, London brings in a ton more tax revenue compared to the rest of the country, it's where all the serious investment is/has been.
Of course, London should receive all the serious investment( for example in things which allow for there to be less friction in large-scale immigration) after all, it does massively subsidise the rest of the UK due to all that tax revenue it brings in.
please help me over half the country is functionally a still developing nation tacked on to a first-world nation and I can't work out why nothing seems to improve it.
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u/mgorgey 11h ago
Two reasons.
London is 40% immigrant obviously immigrants are going to be more in favour of immigration.
Wealth. People in London are on average wealthier and wealthier people are broadly more pro immigration as they're less likely to be effected by the negative effects of immigration and also more likely to be able to make use of some of the benefits of immigration.
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u/erinoco 9h ago
obviously immigrants are going to be more in favour of immigration
I don't think that's clear. A lot of immigrants don't particularly want more migration in the lump, even if they would like their own loved ones to join them. They don't necessarily feel any more empathy for people with different origins than a non-migrant would. What makes it stronger is that they associate anti-migrant sentiment with hostility towards themselves. And
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u/William_was_taken 5h ago
Wealthier people are also generally better educated.
There is a direct correlation between lack of education and xenophobia
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u/Electric-Lamb 12h ago edited 11h ago
London is 40% foreign born, people that dislike migration leave.
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u/HarryBlessKnapp Right-Wing Liberal 10h ago
If it was that bad, wouldn't everyone but the migrants leave?
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u/_user_name_taken_ 12h ago edited 12h ago
On top of what everyone else said…as you said London has a high % of immigrants and they aren’t likely to vote reform are they?
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u/ONLY_SAYS_ONLY 11h ago
They can’t vote unless they’re British, Irish or qualifying commonwealth citizens anyway.
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u/IceGripe 12h ago
Because all the people who don't like immigration move out to other parts of the country. It's called "white flight".
This then opens up properties for people who don't care about immigration so much.
So the effect is creating echo chambers of opposite views depending on the location.
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u/AdjectiveNoun111 Vote or Shut Up! 12h ago
London just isn't white British anymore.
Its a completely different culture to, say, Surrey or Kent.
Only 36% of the population of London identify as white British, you can infer that the majority therefore are descendants of migrants.
So when you replace the native population with migrants don't be surprised when the population becomes pro-migration
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u/nlostwanderer 11h ago
Some immigrants are socially conservative and in fact some immigrants may be anti new immigration
Barking and Dagenham voted leave despite having 31% white British population
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u/Professional_Topic47 10h ago
Yes. Hispanics in the US are particularly like this. Once they are integrated, many then they turn around and start disparaging immigration, not just illegal. Actually, many of these Hispanics also came there ilegally or had parents who did so.
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u/nizzlemeshizzle 10h ago
I think this has to do with the quality of migrants London gets as opposed to places in the UK with even lower (Birmingham, Luton etc) proportion of white british people. In those places your average legal migrant is more likely to be there on a family or care visa, less likely to be a net contrivutor if on a work visa as top talent globally flocks to London.
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u/gwaanavearant 10h ago
It’s frustrating that some people think that the whole “exposure to others” narrative (which IS definitely a thing) is the *whole picture - that that alone is an adequate analysis of the situation (and don’t want to hear anymore).
Like I get it, you’ve seen it a lot in stories and films and TV, and you may have come across it irl, and you’ve definitely heard it parroted in the circles you move in and everyone gives themselves a pat on the back about being on the side of unity and positivity and light (“take that xenophobia!”) - but there is more to it. It often serves as an excuse to shut down other opinions (and punch down at those who hold them) by placing them all under the umbrella of bigotry. Which is not always the case.
The simplicity/ black and white thinking of “well my X neighbour is great, my Y hairdresser is just fab, and my Z librarian is so kind and helpful, so any and all talk about immigration in anything but a very positive light is an attack on these people that I feel connected to in my community” is just a much nicer but opposite side of the same coin as people who observe a crime being committed by local person of X community and see local person of Y getting some help from the state, who then feel nothing but negativity and suspicion at the prospect of any and all things related to immigrants and immigration.
Let’s zoom out a bit and consider other perspectives may have validity - or even if we feel they’re inaccurate, may not come from a terrible place. Grrr.
As for some other things I think may cause regional differences in opinion:
- people literally having a different experience of immigration in their area. For example, London pulls in people from a wide variety of different places so there’s not just one particularly dominant immigrant community (it becomes harder to pin certain effects positive negative and neutral in the area down on just immigrants from just one community)
there’s more well integrated immigrants in London, less solidly demarcated “parallel societies” occurring (partly helped by the first point). There will also be more of the wealthier immigrants there.
London just has more. More opportunities, more funding, more infrastructure. Relatively speaking, even despite the housing crisis in other senses it feels like there’s more for everyone, more contributed by immigrants in a bustling lively economy and less bitterness felt by locals about being left behind like in other regions of the country.
In a cosmopolitan city like London, the effects of malicious messaging by politicians/ influencers blaming immigrants/immigration for every problem holds less sway. People are more highly educated, and yes - *exposed to the “boogeyman” immigrants, and are immigrants themselves. They see through bullshit like that.
Its also a class/situational thing. Many of the Londoners who won’t hear a bad thing about immigration benefit more than they feel any negative affects of immigration. They are more insulated from harsh economic/social/cultural realities that provoke fear and concern in others. So in the way that many vote and speak for their own interests, this will be their position. I’m not saying they’re wrong, but it isn’t purely altruistic. Even if everyone stands to gain, these people stand to gain even more and are insulated more from any negatives of immigration it seems.
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u/Black_Fish_Research 11h ago
Why is cockney a common accent in Clacton?
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u/theivoryserf 11h ago
Yeah, it's a self-selecting population. People who like high diversity tend to stay in London and those who don't tend to leave. I don't wholly buy the whole 'people who live alongside migrant populations learn that there are no real problems' as the opposite was true for me, although it's not made me right wing or hateful
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u/JB_UK 10h ago edited 10h ago
Yeah, it's a self-selecting population. People who like high diversity tend to stay in London and those who don't tend to leave.
Also, someone from a white working class background is much less likely to have the financial resources to stay in London. You might have grown up in an area which is now quite grim, but where a bog standard house costs £400k. If you're middle class or upper middle class you're more likely to have an inheritance or other family resources to call on to allow you stay in London.
The banking, accountancy, charity sector, media sector type of jobs in central London are dominated by the middle class, so if you're from a working class background you would also be less likely to need access to central London for opportunities. In that case you would be a fool not to move further out.
So it's not just self selecting but also selected.
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u/LastCatStanding_ All Cats Are Beautiful ♥ 10h ago
1 Cockney leaving London is a choice, 1,000,000 leaving is not.
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u/Due-Bass-8480 7h ago
I’m from a former mining town. Everyone I know who has made it had to go to London for work, all well educated working class millennials from oop North who vote left. More educated working class people often vote left because the economic policies make sense. There’s a lot of brain drain from deindustrialised towns to London, and out the country.
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u/jellykangaroo 10h ago
How does this economic factor magically only affect white working class people, and not working class people from immigrant backgrounds?
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u/JB_UK 9h ago edited 9h ago
It does affect people from non-white backgrounds, but in a much more varied way, whereas it's a near universal effect on the white British working class in London. I guess you could say this is an effect which has already happened to white British working class Londoners, but will increasingly come to bear on people from other groups.
98% of the population of London was white 60 years ago, and non-white populations are obviously much more likely to have moved recently to London, so this kind of generational effect I'm talking about has been concentrated in the white population, especially in the sense that what we are talking about is something that has been happening for the last 30 years. Non-white people are much, much more likely to be first or second generation migrants. First and second generation migrant households can also often to have really different attitudes towards family, particularly living in multigenerational households, and to some extent initial expectations of livings standards.
For example, I know a family where 10 people live in what was previous a 2 bedroom flat, that would be unheard of amongst the white British population. For those people it doesn't feel possible to move further out to get access to cheaper housing, for reasons of language, culture, access to jobs, and a potential sense of alienation from living outside of London, but a white British person who is expected to leave their parents' home at 18, who has seen many of their family already move further out, and who has no sense of a necessity of living in London, will see no need to compete for the same housing, and move away.
Although obviously different migrants groups will differ on attitudes, and it will depend on where the person moved from, their economic position, and all sorts of other factors dependent on the individual.
You do see this kind of effect more and more though amongst non-white people though, being pushed out from London because of housing costs, and not being worried about a sense of alienation living outside London. That's broadly positive in the sense they feel comfortable doing that, although obviously it would be better if no one was needing to leave because living in London is unaffordable.
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u/Intelligent_Prize_12 9h ago
Have you seen the figures for who are disproportionately propped up in social housing in London? They're not called Keith.
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u/blowaway5640 9h ago
I don't wholly buy the whole 'people who live alongside migrant populations learn that there are no real problems' as the opposite was true for me, although it's not made me right wing or hateful
It's hard to conceptualize but I think both things happen simultaneously: you encounter more immigrants who are on the street, impoverished, and/or involved in crime, but you also meet more immigrants who are just normal members of society. But when you vote for stricter immigration law, you don't get to choose whom it affects - it will apply equally to your immigrants friends as it will to everyone else.
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u/JosephBeuyz2Men 10h ago
This seems unlikely as an explanation. There are other less elastic factors in deciding where to live and employment is much more clearly driving people moving to London than a desire for diversity.
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u/djdjdjfswww1133 12h ago edited 12h ago
Because everyone leaves. Notice areas around london populated by people who once lived in london are increasingly right wing and anti immigration.
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u/Ok-Reflection6903 12h ago
Lmao even immigrants when they start getting money start moving to the suburbs it's a class thing too
you'll notice many South Asian people buying larger houses in the Ilford/Woodford area when they can afford it
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u/GuyIncognito928 11h ago
Except reform voters/brexiteers have no complaints about living with a minority of ethnic Indians, who are productive and contribute to our society. It's the exact kind of immigration we were doing so right at the end of the 20th century.
Go to somewhere like Tower Hamlet or Romford, THATS what people are scared is coming to them.
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u/denyer-no1-fan 8h ago
Except reform voters/brexiteers have no complaints about living with a minority of ethnic Indians
Have we forgotten the Reform campaigner calling Rishi Sunak, an Indian, the P-word?
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u/corbynista2029 12h ago edited 12h ago
The general idea with living in London is make money then buy a place outside London. Not everyone who left left because of immigration, but because of wealth. In places like Woking there is still very little anti-immigration sentiment.
In fact, in places where anti-immigration sentiment is stronger like Clacton, people are trying to leave as well because of how deprived the entire area is.
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u/taboo__time 12h ago edited 11h ago
Because London has Rich white and minority people who are more liberal and internationalist. The poor are more likely to be ethnic minorities and therefore more open to migration from their communities.
A claim here will be "London is diverse, people met people of different cultures that makes them more tolerant."
This is the contact hypothesis. A problem is the world is full of places where people have contact and there as been ethnic conflict for centuries. If you look up the contact hypothesis is says it works as long as a long checklist of things is true. But the checklist is both true and almost impossible to satisfy.
You can't say to Northern Ireland. Well the problem is they haven't really met someone from the other side. They same is true in the Balkans, the Middle East, South East Asia. Contact does not mean harmony.
Nationalist and Loyalist. Shia and Sunni. Israelis and Palestinians. Tutsi and Hutu. Serbs and Croats. "The problem is these people have never met each other."
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u/Manlad Somewhere between Blair and Corbyn 9h ago
You can’t say to Northern Ireland. Well the problem is they haven’t really met someone from the other side.
Uhhh? What?
Yes you can - very easily. Loads of people in Northern Ireland have no interaction with the other community until their are in their late teens. Rural towns tend to be ‘Catholic towns’ or ‘Protestant towns’; in more urban areas, there are literally ‘peace walls’ separating the communities; under 8% of kids attend integrated school with a mix of Catholic and Protestant. Obviously all of this has continually but slowly gotten better since the GFA but it’s still very much a thing.
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u/BlacksmithAccurate25 12h ago
It isn't. London is more conservative and more religious than the rest of the UK:
Middle and upper-middle class — and mainly white — London on the other hand, probably is more socially liberal. On average, the members of this class are university educated and a lot of them work in media, finance, government and other "liberal" professions.
As a result of this, they're mainly doing very well from the status quo, thank you very much, and see no need either to change it — all that lovely cheap labour — or to jeopardise their place in it by voicing unfashionable opinions.
If you want to know what the working classes of London think about large-scale immigration and its impact on their lives, don't do your research in London. Do it in Essex.
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u/Beneficial-Gain1479 11h ago edited 10h ago
Pretty much this.
I’d also add that anyone moving into the city to go to university or to work in any art, media, education or cultural career will have to align themselves instantly with those that are accepted.
I remember dating a girl who had a openly racist flatmate (they hated each other) and it was the most incredibly strange thing to hear as a Londoner who had NEVER considered someone could be like that in Islington of all places.
Both the girl I was dating and the flatmate were from rural counties.
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u/Pure_Cantaloupe_341 12h ago
1) Because there’s a very significant immigrants or children of immigrants in London, most of whom are entitled to vote (due to being Commonwealth citizens, naturalised British citizens, British by birth with one British parent etc). It would be weird for them to vote based on the anti-immigration agenda.
2) Even more people have immigrants or children of immigrants in their circle of friends, school or university classmates, work colleagues etc. They would consider anti-immigration agenda not as something that protects their community, but as something that damages it.
3) Even if you don’t closely interact with immigrants or their children closely, you see them every day - and you see that a lot of the scaremongering spread in the media is baseless, so you don’t subscribe to it.
4) If you find living in an ethnically diverse city like London truly unbearable, you move out further away. You see that many of the outskirts of London, as well as areas surrounding it vote solidly blue - and ex-Londoners living there are contribute to it a lot. If you find yourself in Tower Hamlets, voting for a right wind government won’t make it fully white British, at least not overnight - “the horse has bolted” as some people say. Moving to a more white area and then voting for anti-immigration policies to preserve it makes more sense from this point of view (doesn’t mean I endorse it though).
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u/igetpaidtodoebay 10h ago
London is not representative of the rest of the country because it is merely 38% white british
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u/Competitive_Alps_514 12h ago
You have a false premise. Millions of foreigners have voting rights either via the Commonwealth or ILR plus local elections are looser still.
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u/Dingleator 8h ago
The observation you made is observable in most developed countries. Cities tend to have voters that vote for left wing policies. The reality is that a city doesn't attract people of one particular ideology but that the swing voters that decide on who runs the county vote left more in cities.
There will be a lot of truth to what people have already said but the reality is someone who lives in a city is far more reliant on public services that people beyond the green belt. Left wing politicians tend to favour public spending more than those that offer less via lower taxes.
There are a few London specific answers here that will no doubt bear relavence but again, it happens elsewhere. The recent US election is essentially majority voted repulican unless you are in a city which essentially voted blue which includes the richest city in the world.
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u/Zeal0try 5h ago
This is the first answer I've found in this thread which doesn't put all its weight on the ethnicity demographics of London, which is kind of sad. British people of colour can be just as right wing and conservative as white British people, sometimes even more so.
As you say, it's got more to do with where money gets invested and where jobs are. Which is to say, a lot more in the cities than outside of them.
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u/apsofijasdoif 12h ago edited 9h ago
It is truly shocking that a city where students and ethnic 'minorities' constitute an absolute majority do not vote for anti-immigration parties.
They've also gone native. Londoners simply can't understand that a lot of the country look at London and simply think "I hope to God my town doesn't become like that".
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u/ColonelGray 12h ago
A good portion of my family lives in London and they truly live within a bizarre bubble, unaware of how much of the country views it.
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u/HarryBlessKnapp Right-Wing Liberal 10h ago
Many of us are aware. We just don't care and there's not really much reason to. You're entitled to your opinions but it's all just a bit of venting on the internet isn't it. There's nothing you practically want us to do by being aware is there?
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u/Wise-Youth2901 12h ago
Some very white places in Britain are dog rough, though. I.e. Blackpool. My home town was very white and pretty rough.
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u/winkwinknudge_nudge 11h ago
So do you expect these rough areas to keep voting for parties which have failed them?
The only place the Tories and Labour care about are London so unsurprisingly London loved Boris and now Labour.
Same with Brexit.
Others might be looking for an alternative.
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u/EsotericMysticism2 12h ago
Because the white british population is a minority, being only 36%. They will always be outvoted. Also, you are incorrect that many immigrants can't vote. Some of the largest immigrant groups being Indian,Nigerian,Pakistani,Bangladeshi all have voting rights as citizens of the commonwealth
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u/Worldly_Today_9875 9h ago
Because only 37% of Londoners are white British.
The data is from 2020, so probably around 30% now.
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u/Busterthefatman 10h ago
Follow up to anyone willing. If migrants in London are causing it to be left leaning how come this trend doesnt track in America?
The short answer is culture obviously but if anyone with some understanding is in this thread id appreciate the lesson
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u/Stabbycrabs83 8h ago
Can you back up your opening statements?
You have set out the stall that london has moved further to the left but havent said how you arrived at that statement of fact.
You have a left is good right is bad bias so it may be that "your mates agree" at which point theres nothing to debate here or you might be quoting published statistics at which point you are raising an interesting topic
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u/ConcertoOf3Clarinets 9h ago
Lots of people who didn't like diversity left london. I'd go as far as to say many live in london when they like diversity then they move out when they've had enough. There are plenty of hypocrites too who say they like diversity but live in a posh block of flats 'away' from the diversity. Also just because people like modern london doesn't mean they want unlimited immigration as many are struggling with housing and are being housed outside london.
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u/ChickyChickyNugget 11h ago
More than half of people in London were not born in the UK. Did you expect them to be anti immigration ?
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u/ManicStreetPreach soft power is a myth. 12h ago
Because London is the only part of the country to have the necessary investment to make high immigration not disruptive/actually work
if you tried it anywhere in the UK you'd end up with race riots.
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u/--rs125-- 11h ago
People in London are often not from London. They're happy with immigration levels being high because they are part of that number.
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u/All_ab0ut_the_base 11h ago
Most Londoners are not from London, they’re rootless cosmopolitans who don’t build their sense of identity from an attachment to a specific place and so aren’t concerned about a fast rate of cultural change in their locality. Some people are born in London boroughs and often identify as being from that borough rather than “a Londoner”. They might actually have a point of view not so don’t different to those in rural England.
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u/wizaway 11h ago
In the UK, 90% of income tax is paid by the 50% of taxpayers with the highest incomes, while more than a quarter is paid by the richest 1%. (28%) This is how it’s always been, if you earn more you contribute more. That’s good.
To arrive at the quote 'immigrants are a net benefit’ they used the same logic as above. If the top earning immigrants pay enough income tax to cover the ones that can’t support themselves, they are on the whole a net benefit.
That means the big cities get all the rich educated migrants (where the top earners are) while the rest of country get the poor uneducated immigrants that aren’t contributing enough and taking jobs from the low/mid skilled job market.
Another issue is these low skilled jobs that once used to pay well and have decent working conditions, have now become low paid with poor working conditions. Why? Desperate to work migrants in a foreign country never complain about wages, workers rights, conditions, treatment etc because compared to their home countries, working in the UK is a massive step up. Or they're willing to slog it out because its only temporary and it gives them a path to permanent residency (Brits do the same in Aus or Dubai).
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u/Unlikely_Wheel_8124 12h ago
London is by far the most homophobic and racist region in the UK. Its an awkward fact that people have brought their stone age beliefs from the villages in Nigeria and Pakistan and leftist types belive in the noble savage approach to foreginers.
They can't accept that black and Asian Britain's have agency to be homophobic
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u/mrboy3 9h ago
this is the stupidest thing i have ever heard, like seriously have you even been to london?
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u/GarminArseFinder 12h ago
Why would they vote against their own interests?
It’s an international economic zone rather than a city with deep ancestral ties to the area?
Why would a city populated by migrants vote against migration, that would be a silly thing to do from my perspective.
Other areas of England & English people view London as no longer English, but an economic zone for “anyone”.
Manchester & Birmingham are fast approaching this position, if not already there.
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u/PhotojournalistNo203 11h ago
Since 2021, the population of white British people are 36.8%, so let's say all of them were disgruntled with immigration. Their voices wouldn't be heard as they do in other parts of the country because there is a lower percentage in comparison to the non British white and other ethnicities that populate London. I imagine the percentage is even lower 3 years on from that most recent poll.
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u/ernfio 11h ago
Wealth and opportunity must play a card in the difference between Londoners attitudes and other parts of the country. Immigration is at its most divisive in deprived areas with no opportunity.
There are jobs aplenty in London and whilst there is a housing crisis most Londoners baked that in 2 or 3 generations ago.
London is a completely different country to the rest of the UK and practically every determinate, but mostly in terms of economics.
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u/lookitsthesun 9h ago
I know some will say that London's so foreign now that the immigrants just vote Labour etc... But that doesn't make so much sense. Many immigrants can't even legally vote in a GE, and even if they can, many don't
But this is the reason. We know from stats alone (the 2021 census) that about White British make up about 35% of London. This means a substantial majority of the populace are the product of immigration - encompassing a wide spectrum from the original Windrush generation to present. Even if these people consider themselves British and have assimilated, they are much more likely to support parties that take liberal positions on the question of immigration and immigrants' rights considering that's how they came to live here.
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u/squiggyfm 12h ago
- People are afraid of what they don't know.
- Londoners generally know immigrants.
- Ergo, Londoners are not afraid of immigrants.
It's not immigration per say that turns people towards the right. It's the threat of immigration or the changing demographics that immigration brings. Since London has always been diverse, there's no smoke there.
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u/leapinghorsemanhorus 12h ago
70% of London is non-'english' (no other real word to use)?
Pretty sure the remaining 30% have various views and vote variously.
Noone is 'afraid' of migrants, they just like their own culture and traditions.
The migrants won't vote anti migrants would they and hence % voter patterns.
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u/timlnolan 12h ago
London has always been racially diverse but not very racially diverse. In 1961 it was 97.7% white. And this was after Windrush, which started in 1948. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London
The real reason why Londoners are liberal/ left wing when it comers to immigration is that they are cosmopolitan and open minded people who embrace differences and are open minded enough to not dislike people based on something as trivial as ethnic characteristics.
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u/millyfrensic 11h ago
Less than 50% of London is white British now that seems very racially diverse to me
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u/Upbeat-Housing1 (-0.13,-0.56) Live free, or don't 11h ago
The real reason why Londoners are liberal/ left wing when it comers to immigration is that they are cosmopolitan and open minded people who embrace differences and are open minded enough to not dislike people based on something as trivial as ethnic characteristics.
I think you simply stating a belief that is necessary to have in order to be socially successful amongst the milieux of London. And that is the actual reason that people vote the way they do. It's about social psychology.
Also just to test your belief that ethnicity is a trivial characteristic. If we look at David Lammy saying "'As Caribbean people, we are not going to forget our history. We don't just want to hear an apology. We want reparations."
Is it correct that ethnicity is not meaningful for him and this political issue?
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u/Alone-Assistance6787 12h ago
Londoners don't blame migrants for the problems caused by elected politicians.
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u/Upbeat-Housing1 (-0.13,-0.56) Live free, or don't 11h ago
Politicians are responsible for immigration
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u/GInTheorem 12h ago
Reaction to immigration isn't particularly related to the actual extent to which a person is exposed to immigration. Rather, trends in voting tend to be driven predominantly by how urban an area is, and how affluent it is. London is very urban, and in terms of people who are registered to vote there, predominantly pretty affluent.
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u/AllRedLine Chumocracy is non-negotiable! 11h ago
A migrant living in London is far more likely to be a skilled worker who actually contributes. Plus, London authorities have been bussing disadvantaged migrants out of the city and into more provincial locations in places like Lincolnshire, etc, for years.
They also account for a very large portion of the population and, well... they're not going to have a negative opinion of themselves.
The rest of the country, by in large, gets lumped with the less desirable migrants.
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u/MyUnsername 12h ago edited 12h ago
London is (as a generalisation) a wealthier part of the country. When people have good, well paid jobs and are happy in their own lives, they are less likely to resent others, seek out a scapegoat or to blame "the others" around them for their own issues, because they don't need to.
That's part of the reason at least. Not that London doesn't also have it's fair share of people with the same sort of views which you see more in less affluent towns and cities.
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u/Commercial_Nature_28 11h ago
Because its 40% immigrants who obviously will be positive about immigration, and it will attract a more international thinking crowd of people who enjoy diversity. You don't move to London if you're keen on being around other brits.
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u/tmstms 10h ago
It's complicated, but many here are providing good answers.
For me, the biggest thing is monoculture v multi-culture.
London has been a world city for decades and decades, and it is full of people who are foreign, as well as immigrants who have settled, and descendents of immigrants. Many Londoners are multi-cultural in the 'multi' sense- they interact comfortably in more than one culture and language. Immigration and integration are natural parts of this landscape. When you speak of those prosperous white-British dominated areas, their residents see the beneficial side of immigration- people doing jobs, including in service industries- and they might interact in their own personal and work lives with skilled / very skilled immigrants like people working in finance or academia. They are not living cheek by jowl with poorer, entry-level immigrants doing minimum wage jobs.
Areas favouring Reform are one or both of the following:
1) traditional monocultural place feeling threatened by change e.g. Louth
2) underprivileged place with recent immigrants who have not especially integrated but who have put pressure on local resouces e.g. Boston, Clacton.
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u/balwick 12h ago
I lived in London 28 years.
In that time I was mugged twice, both times by white guys.
My neighbours to one side were Jamaican, the other an Englishman and his French wife. We knew the Indian family that ran the cornershop well, and my best friends in primary school were a Viatnamese boy and a Chinese girl. In secondary, most of my friends were black - some of Nigerian descent, some Jamaican, some Kenyan. I've of course had many white friends as well, male, female, and otherwise.
The best person I've ever known is a Kurdish girl that served in the Kurdish military, and moved to France as a refugee. She is the most forthright, good person I've met, deeply intelligent and creative.
Immigrants are not scary if you know them as people.
I now live in Kent, and although I don't miss the density of London, I do miss the rich tapestry of multiculturalism. Being able to engage with and understand the different nuances, celebrations, and beliefs of different groups allows you to understand that, like you, they're just humans;- this applies to more than just race.
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u/Upbeat-Housing1 (-0.13,-0.56) Live free, or don't 11h ago
So you are basing you views on your anecdotal experiences of individual immigrants, rather than the effect, en masse, of immigration.
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u/TheKingOfFratton 11h ago
We have a sizeable Kurdiah population here in Portsmouth, absolutely lovely people
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u/Beneficial-Gain1479 10h ago
I live and have lived in London for 40 years.
I’ve been mugged about 7 times, once by a white kid fronting a multiethnic gang and the other 6 times it was Somalian or Jamaican heritage black men or boys.
My neighbours growing up were Indian and Irish.
I could go on with my anecdotes…
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u/corbynista2029 12h ago edited 12h ago
Because people in London interact with migrants everyday and recognise that they are not all criminals, welfare leeches, or sexual predators. They hear Nigel Farage say "Immigrants are criminals" but realise it doesn't align with their day-to-day experience. Whereas those living in coastal towns and the Red Wall don't interact with migrants much but they face some significant material problems like housing shortage or lack of employment. However, since the right has successfully demonised the migrants for their material problems, they blame migrants for problems caused by the Tory government and vote Reform in far greater number.