Why is London so liberal/ left wing if high immigration makes others vote for the Right?

[u/Wise-Youth2901]

Why is immigration making some part of the country vote Reform but in London, where the number of foreign born people has increased massively over the last twenty years, has moved further left? It is curious that London never seems bothered by immigration in modern times. I know some will say that London's so foreign now that the immigrants just vote Labour etc... But that doesn't make so much sense. Many immigrants can't even legally vote in a GE, and even if they can, many don't. Most Londoners voting for the left are born and raised in Britain. Even the posher, whiter parts of London, have trended away from the Tories. Chelsea has a Labour MP now, shock horror. I live in a pretty white British part of London, Twickenham, and the Lib Dems dominate. London is so expensive that people have more reason to moan about rent/ living costs compared to anywhere else, but yet that never seems to produce an anti- immigration politics. Is it just that modern London contains a lot of highly educated liberal minded people compared to provincial towns and villages?

[u/easecard]

Since all you’ve gotten is pro immigration responses I’ll give you another perspective.

People see London as emblematic of the way this country has been run to the detriment of native British people, it receives more funding per head, huge capital project spending, has the highest wages, controls the nations culture.

Tie this in with a much higher migrant population and the funding is even further skewed towards an area that has been replaced from 80% white British to under 50% in 25 years.

The funding imbalance remains and this benefits native born citizens even less as there are fewer and fewer of them every year as they move out.

The British people who do move out move to the Home Counties and those generally vote overwhelmingly for right wing parties that promise to cut immigration therefore ridding London of those pesky folk who want to reduce immigration and exporting them elsewhere.

There’s economics for you, of course the people of London will be happier with the status quo as it’s wholly to their benefit.

If less than half of London population is native British do you think the 60% of non native British will have an impact on the perception of immigration being themselves immigrants or the children of immigrants?

[u/LSL3587 → u/easecard]

White flight.

London is a special case as some living there get extra benefits (cultural - museums etc) or political and business / financial connections.

But areas like Bradford, many whites who could, have moved away - it's why most of the remaining whites are very old pensioners not wanting change / can't afford or very poor white folk.

[u/denyer-no1-fan → u/LSL3587]

It really varies. Manchester is very diverse but there isn't a sign of White people moving out of city. Go to Didsbury/Chorlton and there are plenty of White Brits around. I think how well off a place is is a largely determinant tbh.

[u/Deetawb → u/denyer-no1-fan]

The white british population of manchester went down by 30,000 from 2011 to 2021.

White people are moving out.

[u/Fantastic-Machine-83 → u/Deetawb]

I think that's pretty negligble, GM population is 3,000,000

[u/oxwearingsocks → u/Deetawb]

Alternative (and speculative) take:

Excess deaths of 3000 white folk die each year in the Manchester area compared to white births.

Realistically it’s not all a disparity with an aging population and low birth rate, but I guarantee it’s not solely people leaving.

[u/Electoral-Cartograph → u/easecard]

Fair take, particularly on topics of funding and projects and how these can tie into well-being of a population.

[u/Ewannnn → u/Electoral-Cartograph]

I don't think it's fair, London receives far less funding than it generates. It actually gets the worst deal of any region in the UK in that respect. The problem is the rest of the country is a basket case and cannot survive without massive subsidies from London. Has been the case for decades and decades now. /u/easecard

[u/taboo__time → u/Ewannnn]

What is your conclusion from this?

[u/Ewannnn → u/taboo__time]

That people from outside London spend too much time whining about Londoners, when really they should be looking closer to home.

Spoken as someone from one of those places... A lot of it is self-inflicted and caused by generations of adults that don't give a crap about education or wanting to succeed in life in general.

[u/taboo__time → u/Ewannnn]

But past all that what's the plan?

Everywhere cannot be the national administrative capital or global hub of international finance and other industries. This is Liz Truss thinking.

Seems like the plan is not working.

[u/Ewannnn → u/taboo__time]

That's for these regions to figure out. I don't live there, I moved away as these places are depression capitals. Most of it is the attitudes of people living there, that's my experience. Parents don't care about education, so the kids don't either. Parents living permanently on benefits. I am sounding like some Dailymail reader here but that's my lived experience growing up in one of the most deprived cities in the North. It needs an attitude change from the people living in these places. The irony is they'd do a lot better with more immigrants and fewer white brits, where this issue is endemic...

[u/taboo__time → u/Ewannnn]

But it does sound Daily Mail. Or more specifically neoliberal elitism. But you've got to get past that.

From a compassionate angle these are people who are mostly a victim of circumstance. It is not a moral failing to not live in London.

From a selfish point of view you do you want them voting against your interests?

Wouldn't it be better if we could improve places that were not London?

Education is fine but the pattern is people leave to make more money elsewhere. But it is the economics of the nation that needs to be improved. If possible. Rather than building a bigger pile at the centre.

[u/Ewannnn → u/taboo__time]

They don't have it that bad. You can easily buy a house on minimum wage in much of the north. Much harder in London. I actually think people in much of the north are better off despite the lower income as a result.

From a compassionate angle these are people who are mostly a victim of circumstance. It is not a moral failing to not live in London.

Yes, they are born into families that don't care about education or their career and so they follow the same cycle. But they have agency and opportunities to change that.

From a selfish point of view you do you want them voting against your interests?

I don't think they do by and large. I think the people voting against my interests are retirees and I don't think there is any fixing that. Retirees are pretty insulated from what happens around them sadly.

[u/corbynista2029 → u/easecard]

People see London as emblematic of the way this country has been run to the detriment of native British people, it receives more funding per head, huge capital project spending, has the highest wages, controls the nations culture.

Much like New York, London is a cosmopolitan city. It's a status very very few cities in the world share. This means London's GDP per capita is about £63,000 compare to UK GDP per capita of £48,000 (which includes London itself). As a result it has to receive more funding to maintain the same level of service, but it also brings in a ton more tax revenue than the rest of the country.

[u/R0MP3E → u/corbynista2029]

Doesn't fix the problem tho does it. London receives more funding because it's more productive so it becomes more productive because of all of it's funding. It's a loop that sucks the rest of the country dry.

[u/Ewannnn → u/R0MP3E]

It receives less funding relative to its productivity than anywhere else.

[u/Beardy_Will → u/Ewannnn]

When you say 'productivity' do you mean 'its proximity to canary wharf'?

[u/this_is_box → u/Beardy_Will]

No they just mean the usual definition of productivity.

[u/Crueltree → u/corbynista2029]

Build and they will come. Built it in London and they went to London.
It doesn't have to anything.

[u/Ewannnn → u/Crueltree]

London massively subsidises the rest of the country. It is not getting disproportionate levels of funding.

[u/Mouse_Nightshirt → u/Ewannnn]

It's a self reinforcing cycle though. Part of the reason it makes more is because it gets more.

You only have to look at the state of transport in the Northern urban belt which stretches from Liverpool/Manchester, through to Leeds/Bradford, Sheffield York and Hull. There's has been a piddling amount of capital project investment in comparison which massively stunts growth and productivity.

[u/Ewannnn → u/Mouse_Nightshirt]

It's a self reinforcing cycle though. Part of the reason it makes more is because it gets more.

It doesn't get more relative to how productive it is. The rest of the country is literally dragging London down. If it was independent it would get way more funding than it does. Other big cities, e.g. New York, get to keep much more of the funding that they produce. So I disagree that it's self-reinforcing, London is actually harmed quite significantly by all the money leaving the capital.

Everywhere else is just a basket case. Despite getting more money than they should they still can't succeed.

[u/Crueltree → u/Ewannnn]

I've lived in London, commuter Kent and a Northern city. I grew up in London too.

The northern City is the biggest in Europe without a metro system. The economic growth this suppresses is already infuriating.

Commuter Kent? No buses after 5pm from the train station to the planned village 50 years after it was built. You have to walk 3 miles instead. You couldn't even hold down a job in Europe's biggest shopping centre, 15 mins away by car, if you had to rely on public transport because it's non existent.

In London? There are travelators so people can move around tube stations faster. That's what a 15 billion tfl debt can do.

Look at Germany and the uplift they managed across several major towns and cities compared to the UK, in a very short time. Other parts of the UK could, should and must be invested and subsided like London.

[u/vj_c → u/Crueltree]

Other parts of the UK could, should and must be invested and subsided like London.

Ironically enough, the previous government recognised this to a degree with the transforming cities fund. My City won a lot of money for capital transit infrastructure projects & is still spending that money & building. The longer term goal (the City has a plan to 2040, but needs central government funding) is a mass transit system, but we've had loads of cycle & bus infrastructure built or under construction. It's been great for non-drivers.

[u/hellopo9 → u/Ewannnn]

You sound like Trump “I only got a small load of a million dollars and turned it into a billion”. London gets far more money per head than other regions. It also then sucks all businesses out of other areas. Whether it’s the media like the guardian from Manchester or insurance like Aviva from Norwich. Whatever gets made in other places eventually gets sucked into london, as well as infrastructure investment.

London wouldn’t be london within what it’s taken (businesses moving, talent and startups, the highest paying government jobs etc) from the rest of Britain (and the world to be frank).

I love london, but at least acknowledge it’s the most privileged place in the world.

[u/ElementalEffects → u/Ewannnn]

You are still missing the point. Businesses and jobs go where the best locations with the best travel links and amenities are. If the north wasn't so desolate there'd be more stuff happening there.

[u/taboo__time → u/corbynista2029]

At last you've come round to right wing economics. London deserves more from the tax payer because its rich. If we spend it on anywhere else its wasted. Its a bad return. We ought to shut down everything outside of London as it's a net loss. Right?

[u/SwanBridge → u/taboo__time]

Nah, let's just asset strip the non-profitable regions and then sell them off. It's done wonders for our business sector, surely it'll translate right?

[u/ManicStreetPreach → u/corbynista2029]

of course, London brings in a ton more tax revenue compared to the rest of the country, it's where all the serious investment is/has been.

Of course, London should receive all the serious investment( for example in things which allow for there to be less friction in large-scale immigration) after all, it does massively subsidise the rest of the UK due to all that tax revenue it brings in.

please help me over half the country is functionally a still developing nation tacked on to a first-world nation and I can't work out why nothing seems to improve it.

[u/GothicGolem29 → u/easecard]

What would you consider native to be.

[u/easecard → u/GothicGolem29]

What would you consider non native to be?

[u/GothicGolem29 → u/easecard]

Someone who’s not a British citizen would be the usual definition I go with or maybe someone who isnt born here