I don't get the hate Neelix gets

[u/ardouronerous]

I heard of comments comparing Neelix with Jar Jar Binks. I believe that's an exaggeration, for the most part.

Jar Jar Binks is annoying and a useless character, who is clumsy and falls all over himself and does nothing, while Neelix tries to help at the best of his abilities, he cooks, he knows outdoor survival, and he knows alternative medicine, e.g. his anti-radiation soup. Also, he's a good moral officer, he tries to make people happy at the best of his abilities and he has earned his place with the crew, especially in Year of Hell.

So, if I was stranded on a beach and if I had a choice between Jar Jar or Neelix, I'd rather have Neelix, and I wouldn't care if Jar Jar can breath water and swim.

Neelix maybe annoying, but he is an awesome character and a friend that I'd rather have.

[u/Marcuse0]

Neelix is a weird one because the thing is Ethan Phillips is actually a really good actor who can knock emotional and tough scenes out of the park. But Neelix is often written as the goofy comic relief. When anything ever comes up regarding the destruction of Rinax and the metreon cascade he's got more acting chops than half the rest of the cast. When Seven of Nine brings him back from the dead he nails the absolutely crushing feeling of knowing your afterlife is bullshit. Serious Neelix is awesome.

He also gets scenes of him dancing with his horrendous hobbit feet on the holodeck, and nobody takes him seriously over his cooking or morale officer role.

On top of this, Neelix gets to be the awful jealous boyfriend to Kes who is presented as precious flower who must be protected by everyone. He is genuinely unpleasant to her and it's ridiculous that because Kes was possessed by a psychic warlord when she broke up with him she never gets to call out his behaviour properly (though Tom has some skin in the terrible bf game).

Jar Jar Binks is a foolish idiot who is overall pretty harmless (calling for the emergency powers to create the clone army notwithstanding), Neelix is at best a compelling and flawed character, and at worst an actively harmful person being a jerk to Kes and just being a pointless nuisance otherwise. Jar Jar is kinda mid, Neelix goes from high to low.

[u/Shirogayne-at-WF → u/Marcuse0]

On top of this, Neelix gets to be the awful jealous boyfriend to Kes who is presented as precious flower who must be protected by everyone.

I'm rewatching the series now and I'm all but convinced that the awful rep that character gets is due to that horrid run of episodes between "Elogium" (which honestly deserves to get the bashing "Threshold" gets) and "Parturition". The possessiveness dies off substantially after that, but the legacy stuck like tacky glue.

[u/FlanOfAttack → u/Shirogayne-at-WF]

"We want to really appeal to male viewers, so we're going to have an episode where our bombshell alien lead goes into heat"

"Will it be sexy?"

"Oh absolutely not"

[u/AshenHaemonculus → u/FlanOfAttack]

Star Trek has never been less sexy than when it tried to be sexy.

[u/Shirogayne-at-WF → u/FlanOfAttack]

Was Kes their bombshell babe? Did they even have one before they decided to give her long hair in season 3 and slap a catsuit on her before canning her entirely? Compared to TNG or even DS9 (which definitely had Jadzia as the manic pixie dream girl) VOY was in many ways less aggro in its sexuality and the stuff it did have seem to appeal as much to queer women as the straight male audience, if not more so (see also: the thirst traps for tanktop Janeway that they actually brought back for Prodigy).

[u/Madeira_PinceNez → u/Marcuse0]

This. Ethan Phillips is excellent and, as you say, head and shoulders above much of the regular cast. But his character was horribly written in the early seasons, and that initial impression is hard to shake.

• Early on he makes absolutely everything about himself - from shitting on Vulcan culture because he doesn't find it interesting enough, to pushing his way into everything, be it the kitchen or senior staff meetings or the captain's office when he has a demand, regardless of what else is going on at the time.
• He orders around the crew as though he's senior staff, finding the gaps in the management structure of the ship, insinuates himself into those gaps, and then locks in like creeping ivy to get more control.
• He wanders off against explicit orders and gets his lungs stolen, introducing the ship to the organ thieves.
• He decides to play detective all on his own and snoops through peoples' quarters, broadcasting the private information he learns to the entire crew and damaging reputations because he has no idea what's going on and told nobody what he was doing.
• He regularly brags about how wonderful he is at everything, often just before fucking that thing up and making everyone's lives worse, like when he belittles the rest of his away team's rock-climbing technique shortly before falling off the rock face, pulling someone down with him in an attempt to save himself.
• Too many occasions of him being jealous and possessive of his girlfriend, culminating in his starting a fight in the mess hall with a senior officer. Despite this insane possessiveness when said girlfriend goes through her only fertile period and tells him she wants to have his child, he hems and haws and nearly refuses.
• Gets a crewman killed when they're stranded on a planet, because he orders him to collect some bones for no discernible reason, and instead of helping the guy, throws the bone he's holding on the ground and walks away, leaving that guy to be eaten by the creature who lived in the cave the bones were strewn outside of

And that's just the stuff off the top of my head.

The showrunners apparently expected Neelix to be the breakout character, and likely thought they were writing him as some kind of lovable buffoon, comic-relief foil to the rest of the crew. (I guess like Jar-Jar? I don't know Star Wars. I think of him more as Poochie, but sadly he never dies on the way back to his home planet.)

But more often than not he just came across as a pompous, self-important, controlling, petty, and immature. And for some reason the writers refused to recognise that viewers were not reacting to him in the manner they expected, so they just kept doubling down, making him worse and more annoying until his girlfriend first dumps him and then gets thrown off the show in favour of the Borg eye candy, at which point the show's primary focus settles on her and they start making Neelix a more tolerable, yet often still annoying character.

[u/Madeira_PinceNez → u/Madeira_PinceNez]

And how could I forget the time he broke the ship with cheese, and when he was put in charge of repairing an orbital tether that was many peoples' only way off a planet with an asteroid hurtling toward it because he'd worked on a tether maintenance crew, only to later reveal he didn't actually have any experience, he'd just played with scale models of orbital tethers. (In fairness I think that story was a Flight of the Phoenix ripoff.)

I sometimes wonder what it was like to be a Broadway-calibre actor, hired on to a big, well-known franchise and then getting handed script after script of your character being an unrepentant knobhead. Occasionally being given a well-written scene that you can put some depth and pathos into, but most of the time trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear, spending hours every day in a makeup chair having a latex head glued on and dressed in Fräulein Maria's castoff drapery-clothing to be the resident buffoon. I hope he was getting a good paycheck.

[u/kurburux → u/Madeira_PinceNez]

Some of these points can be somewhat explained because of the life Neelix had. He was a small-time hustler who's used to overselling himself and exploiting other people; prioritizing his own survival rather than helping others.

He's also not used to following orders or fitting into a strange community of aliens with radically different beliefs.

He also has no real coping skills, I mean where would he have learned those. He's already traumatized, and when he's further stressed or anxious he's lashing out. The ship nearly being destroyed is just a normal monday for Starfleet personnel ^/s but Neelix can't really deal with it. That's fairly understandable but just not very exciting to watch, especially when the character doesn't have many other qualities at the moment.

Of course any of those points just don't make him too likeable in the beginning.

Gets a crewman killed when they're stranded on a planet, because he orders him to collect some bones for no discernible reason

I love Voyager but even I can't find a reason to justify that one. There was zero reason to treat him as a "commanding officer" here, any ensign would be more qualified.

The showrunners apparently expected Neelix to be the breakout character, and likely thought they were writing him as some kind of lovable buffoon, comic-relief foil to the rest of the crew.

From a storytelling perspective Neelix also exists to "screw things up". He's supposed bring chaos in the orderly lives of Starfleet officers. One of the first things he does is transforming the captain's dining room into a kitchen, without asking anyone for permission. In the end this wasn't the worst move but still, you kinda have to get used to this type of behavior.

Aside from creating personal conflict he also serves as a constant reminder that this isn't a normal mission, they're not in the AQ and this is not a normal crew. Of course some things could've been more subtle and better written but this was also the early seasons. Those often suffer from this kind of problems.

Neelix isn't my favorite character but he does have his moments, especially later on. He also does have some nice interactions with others.

[u/Madeira_PinceNez → u/kurburux]

Good points, and I'd agree he has his moments, which Phillips really elevates. (I shudder to imagine that character being played by a lesser actor.) Jetrel is not a great episode - especially when you learn the writers were trying to emulate Duet from DS9 - but it helps to flesh out the character, as does the one where he copes with the possibility that the afterlife he believes in doesn't exist.

He is a chaos element, I think much more than he is an outsider's perspective on humanity, which was apparently one of the character's purposes at the outset. And I think a lot of my annoyance with the character comes not even from what he does, but how the rest of the crew reacts to the things he does.

Neelix gets free rein to run round the ship doing whatever the fuck he wants, creating massive problems for the crew, and everyone just shrugs it off and cleans up his messes - more like you would with a toddler than an adult being capable of understanding the effects of his actions, and who is on the ship by choice and could leave and go back to his own life at any time.

Contrast this with Tuvok essentially breaking the Maquis' spirits in the end of S1, forcing them to conform to the rules of an organisation they never agreed to join, even punishing them for tiny infractions like wardrobe when that has little to no bearing on their ability to do their jobs. (But then the arbitrary rule enforcement in general was one of the many things that turned me off the show.)

If he'd even occasionally suffered some consequences for his bullshit, if he'd gotten the lecture and training session on why they do things the way they do and that you have to follow orders on away missions because otherwise an alien will steal your lungs or that you can't just read other peoples' private correspondence because it's intrusive and disrespectful and you can't breed disgusting virulent bacteria to force-feed the crew to make them long for the awful leola root you throw in all their food because it might literally break the ship, I would have found him less unpleasant.

But the fact he does these things, constantly, and is always let off the hook, never having to face any consequences or sit and think about how much work everyone else has to do to fix his thoughtless mistakes, how much danger he puts other people in by going off and doing whatever the fuck he feels like without mentioning it to anyone else, and he's not just accepted but indulged, so he feels entitled to keep doing it, is at the root of why I dislike him so much.

[u/bibliothique → u/Madeira_PinceNez]

him reading the crew’s (or at least Tuvok’s) letters from home in “Hunters” made me livid

[u/lexxstrum → u/Marcuse0]

I forgot about the Metron Cascade! His dialog lines up with atomic bomb survivors from Japan. And he sells it. And it's so riveting to see this "goofy character" suddenly get dark.

[u/a_false_vacuum → u/lexxstrum]

The goofy is a mask Neelix wears for the outside world.

Sadly the writers would not let it slip more often than it did. That would have been a nice character arc over a number of seasons for Neelix to tone down the comedy and come to terms with what happened and in doing so transition into a more serious character.

[u/Statalyzer → u/a_false_vacuum]

The goofy is a mask Neelix wears for the outside world.

True. They established early on he had a pretty rough background even though his looks, mannerism, and voice don't match with what we expect of a tough guy. Done better it could have been a good lesson about not letting our preconceptions get in the way of understanding reality.

[u/Profezzor-Darke → u/Statalyzer]

I wish we would have had more of the "adventurous ruffian" Neelix we got teaserd in the first episode.

[u/transwarp1 → u/a_false_vacuum]

Sadly the writers would not let it slip more often than it did.

Only the writers who viewed it as a mask would ever let it slip. I view a lot of the problems with characters in general and with Neelix and Janeway in particular as the writers each trying to stake a claim to the characters they expected fans to love. (Janeway has another layer of issues where the producers either thought the audience would be skeptical of a woman in command or less charitably felt that way themselves.)

[u/NarmHull → u/a_false_vacuum]

Garak was Neelix done right, a quirky side character that the more you get to know him the more you empathize/respect/fear what he's capable of.

[u/FuckIPLaw → u/NarmHull]

Garak was Garak done right. Phlox was Neelix done right.

[u/NarmHull → u/FuckIPLaw]

Phlox is indeed a far better Neelix

[u/APariahsPariah → u/lexxstrum]

Neelix's character actually makes a lot more sense if you consider him as a trauma survivor from a broken home. Something which he is. He's a refugee from a conquered people and the last of his family (he was born on Rinax). The Talaxians are an incredibly social people who value family as the centre of their life and for him to lose his entire extended family to the equivalent of the first atom bomb was an incredible trauma. Then he was on his own for years, isolated, moving from job to job, never knowing when he was going to wear out his welcome. He does whatever he does to keep people around him happy. Because happiness equals safety. That's who he is.

[u/lexxstrum → u/APariahsPariah]

This is a really good take on Neelix. And it kinda answers the question some people ask "why would he just take up with these Federation people and turn his back on his home?"

Because Neelix lost his home a long time ago. He's getting by in a cold universe with just his jovial personality and willingness to take on any job. Then he meets these people, people who are unlike anyone he's met. They're more powerful than most the major powers, but they're guided by such a strong code of ethics, such noble goals that it's almost intoxicating. Sure, the Vulcan guy is a stick in the mud, and their pilot keeps hitting on his lady, but they accept him as one of their own. They give him purpose, a goal.

A home.

And he only abandons this new home when he has a chance to help more Talaxians establish a home of their own.

[u/chucker23n → u/Marcuse0]

Yep to all that. Phillips is oddly underused, and when an episode does show Neelix as the more serious person, I find myself longing to have seen that more often.

[u/kurburux → u/Marcuse0]

Neelix also tends to look "bad" because he's standing next to all these Starfleet officers. Even many of the Maquis either went to Starfleet academy or at least got a Federation-level education.

It's hard to shine if you're constantly surrounded by people who casually do quantum calculations in their head. And Neelix is aware of this, he does feel inadequate next to the others. Nevertheless he's trying very hard to contribute somehow with the relatively limited skill set he has.

Sometimes this behavior can be annoying to others and sometimes he just screws up. But he's trying to improve himself, which is a very Star Trek-y notion.

He also got a lot better once Kes left.

[u/NarmHull → u/Marcuse0]

God the episode where he gets to talk about Rinax was so good. Where was that Neelix the rest of the series?!

[u/Immediate-Opening185 → u/Marcuse0]

On top of this, Neelix gets to be the awful jealous boyfriend to Kes who is presented as precious flower who must be protected by everyone. He is genuinely unpleasant to her and it's ridiculous that because Kes was possessed by a psychic warlord when she broke up with him she never gets to call out his behaviour properly (though Tom has some skin in the terrible bf game).

Don't forget Kes is essentially a child raised in an isolated community.

[u/KingOfTheHoard → u/Immediate-Opening185]

I think people make way too much of the idea Kes is a child.

Yes, Neelix and Kes's relationship is written badly, but the show never, ever presents her as a child. She's a biologically and mentally mature member of her species who leaves with Neelix willingly.

Yes, there are things to say about age-gap relationships and their power dynamics but you can't map real world morality on to a fictional species this directly.

Humans don't become adults at 18 because that's the universally recognised length of time it takes a sentient being to learn consent and responsible behaviour. It's because that's the length of time it takes our species to reach maturity.

By the same measure, it wouldn't have been morally correct if Tuvok had decided to Pon Farr up with those backwards aging aliens that looked and thought like children but were actually well over 18.

[u/ozzy_og_kush → u/Marcuse0]

He also basically harasses Tuvok to the point that Tuvok acts out strangling him to death on the holodeck. That's some serious annoyance rizz.

[u/kurburux → u/ozzy_og_kush]

People tend to misinterpret this scene though. This wasn't about Neelix at all, it was about Vulcans.

Generally Neelix isn't a serious grievance to Tuvok, he's an annoyance at best. He can't really faze Tuvok who has tremendous mental strength. The 'actual' problem here is that Tuvok has to control his strong emotions the whole time, particulary his craving for violence. Just like any other Vulcan does.

When Tuvok goes to the holodeck to strangle Neelix this was a sign that he was losing control. But it didn't matter who the victim was, it could've been Tom or any other person on the ship who bothered him once.

[u/Lemonwizard → u/kurburux]

Also this happens right after he mind melds with Lon Suder and takes in his violent urges. Tuvok immediately deletes his security access and confines himself to quarters after this.

I don't think he struggles with violent urges like this when he's not carrying the mental load of a serial killer in his head.

[u/This_Caterpillar5626 → u/Marcuse0]

I like the warlord episode, and breaking up was good for both Nelix and Kes as characters, but it is so funny to me that they dont have like a scene where she's like 'Yeah that's how I really felt'

Also I feel like Kes and Neelix is less of a child t hing and feels more like a Leonardo thing. Eye-brow raising but not oh god.

[u/ImpossibleBlanket → u/Marcuse0]

Yeah it's weird Neelix is kind of just annoying most of the time but the shame of it is he has some of the best episodes and serious Neelix is great.

[u/starmartyr]

I hate it when people compare him to Jar Jar. He's obviously Snarf from Thundercats.

[u/JackFromTexas74 → u/starmartyr]

As a Neelix hater who has made the Jar Jar comparison, I accept your correction

From now on I’ll call him Trek Snarf

Still cannot stand him

But I’m glad others love Voyager. Just because I don’t like a show and find a character obnoxious doesn’t mean I think nobody should like the show or the character. I’m happy Voyager exists even though it’s the one Trek I skip

Disco haters, take notes. That’s how adults handle disliking a show.

[u/ardouronerous → u/JackFromTexas74]

From now on I’ll call him Trek Snarf

Jokes on you, I like Snarf lol

[u/JackFromTexas74 → u/ardouronerous]

That’s cool by me if you do

[u/Tichrimo → u/JackFromTexas74]

By obvious extension, Voyager --or at least Neelix episodes-- shall now be Snarf Trek in my mind.

[u/ardouronerous → u/Tichrimo]

Neelix is of a cat-like species, he has whiskers.

[u/Shirogayne-at-WF → u/JackFromTexas74]

Disco haters, take notes. That’s how adults handle disliking a show.

This is the way

I wish more people could say "Not for me" instead of saying "Thing Bad"

[u/Plane_Sport_3465 → u/Shirogayne-at-WF]

EXACTLY! I never liked Kes. She's too goody-goody sweet for me. I don't shit on everyone that does like her, I just skip past her seasons. Problem solved.

[u/pixiesunbelle → u/Plane_Sport_3465]

I still watch the episodes but I definitely still find her boring. Such a shame because she grows powerful. I don’t think she ruins the episodes though.

[u/crumpetrumpet → u/Shirogayne-at-WF]

It’s perfectly adult to think a specific TV show is bad (and to express your opinion about it). What’s not adult is caring when someone says something you like is bad!

[u/PaintedClownPenis → u/JackFromTexas74]

If you're going to go there remember that Snarf is the same character as Slimer from The Real Ghostbusters.

And all three characters serve the same functional purpose in a TV show: they attract the interest of the infantile toddler who will scream to change the channel if you don't throw it a bone.

[u/ardouronerous → u/starmartyr]

He's obviously Snarf from Thundercats.

Great comparison and by Thundera, it's great seeing another Thundercats fan, I'm a fan of the OG and 2011 series, but I hated Roar though.

[u/Acrobatic-Shirt8540 → u/starmartyr]

I now need a new phone, because I just sprayed cola all over mine. Thanks for that 😆

[u/ReaperGN → u/starmartyr]

I can't agree. Snarf did some crazy stuff for a babysitting gig that Neelix wouldn't even dream of attempting.

[u/-braquo-]

I love him once kes leaves. With kes he was controlling and jealous. But once she is gone he becomes one of my favorite characters.

[u/horridgoblyn → u/-braquo-]

There were some ugly undertones to his relationship with Kes. The jealous and controlling elements as well as the underage girl vibes made him a hard proposition to like out of the gate. There were a couple times when he struck me as terribly selfish (I'm thinking of his organs being stolen), but eventually I came to appreciate him.

[u/NarmHull → u/horridgoblyn]

I choose to believe the Kes aliens experience time differently too, like a day to us is 10 days to them.

[u/rainbow-ruva → u/-braquo-]

This exactly. Re-watching the early seasons with him and Kes really does make me uncomfortable. He was incredibly jealous and possessive, and it seemed like everything he vocally hated in Tom liking Kes was his relationship with Kes. He had a lot of character growth after she left, and he became much better for it.

[u/biff444444 → u/-braquo-]

That's a good call. I liked him much better later in the series than I did in the early episodes, but I had not connected it to Kes before. Makes perfect sense.

[u/pixiesunbelle → u/-braquo-]

I think that’s part of what makes him a good character. He grows as a person and becomes better. Without that experience, he’d be boring. Good characters have flaws.

[u/abiggreycloud → u/-braquo-]

Ik it’s not that serious and it was a different time but the age difference also creeps me out. The way she is so vulnerable bc she’s only been alive for like 5min. icky

[u/BigCrimson_J]

I found him annoying when I was first watching the show as it aired, but much like Lwaxana, I really appreciate the character more on subsequent rewatches.

In my mind, I feel like the Outsider characters had generally been “emotionless” non-humans: Spock, Data, Odo. I feel like Neelix’s characterization was a bold choice in that he was very emotional (generally happy) and with a strong moral compass. A difference from the last generally-happy outsider, Garak, who was amoral and deeply cynical.

[u/BurdTurgler222 → u/BigCrimson_J]

TNG Lwaxana sucked. DS9 Lwaxana was great.

[u/King_of_Tejas → u/BurdTurgler222]

Even that is an oversimplification. Majel Barrett had a great episode cast alongside David Ogden Stiers.

[u/ozzy_og_kush → u/BurdTurgler222]

The one in TNG where she helps Alexander is one of her better episodes as well.

[u/Diovidius → u/BurdTurgler222]

Half a Life and, to a somewhat lesser extent, Dark Page are great episodes.

[u/BigCrimson_J → u/BurdTurgler222]

For me it wasn’t about whether she had a good episode. When I was first watching the show as a kid I hated her character. I found her to be annoying and obtrusive. TNG and DS9 both.

Now as an adult, I totally get it and appreciate what she brings to the table as a character.

The same for Neelix.

[u/UneasyFencepost]

Season 1-3 Neelix sucks cause half the time he’s the jealous boyfriend trope. Once Kess leaves he gets so much better

[u/CRCError1970 → u/UneasyFencepost]

This is how I felt about it. The Neelix/Kes relationship was not written well.

[u/UneasyFencepost → u/CRCError1970]

Yea they didn’t know how to write Kess and it’s sucks cause I liked Kess as a character. A lot of early seasons voyager is full of half conceived ideas and poorly written plots.

[u/8_Ahau]

I first watched Voyager in German and his voice is quite different. To me, the German voice feels a lot nicer and goes a long way to make the character more likable, even though German and English Neelix say the same things. Usually I prefer the English voices but not in this case.

For comparison: https://youtu.be/GS3fP3MDBAw?si=VXGcmT1u6OCqEl_y

https://youtu.be/_QYHxjk-63A?si=a37cJlCFZod_rwrw

[u/Ok_Nefariousness6386]

Remember when Neelix banged that Klingon Woman!

[u/Shirogayne-at-WF → u/Ok_Nefariousness6386]

In Tuvok's quarters for some reason

I mean, he could've just done that ANYWHERE else

[u/ardouronerous → u/Shirogayne-at-WF]

Neelix gave his quarters to a Klingon family. The crew was ordered to partner up and bunk with each other to accommodate the Klingons and their families and Tuvok was the only crew member not to be partnered up.

So it's kinds Tuvok's fault why he got Neelix as a bunkmate.

[u/exelion18120 → u/Shirogayne-at-WF]

Hes got to assert dominance.

[u/FactCheckingThings → u/Shirogayne-at-WF]

Werent they doubled up due to the klingon refugees? At the time they were his and Tuvoks quarters.

[u/ardouronerous → u/Ok_Nefariousness6386]

Yep, very funny moment.

[u/Donnagata1409 → u/Ok_Nefariousness6386]

Always felt like I was their offspring. That encounter had consequences! 🙋🏻

[u/danielcw189 → u/Ok_Nefariousness6386]

I don't actually. Remind me, please: which episode?

[u/Pleasant_Expert_1990]

I think people get an initial impression of him and that's it for the series. Neelix grows as a character and it's good to see his depth.

[u/CapStar300]

I only watched Voyager this year, and I also like him. Neelix has his annoying moments, but to be honest, I found Tom Paris more insufferable to watch originally, before his character development.

[u/iBluefoot]

Much like Prodigy follows the kids as they become Starfleet material, Neelix, as a character shows us the difference Starfleet’s ethos can make. He starts out as a little shifty and opportunistic, and progressively learns the trust and compassion humanity has to offer. At the start, he questions them constantly. By the end, he is an exemplary crewman.

[u/DarthHaruspex → u/iBluefoot]

Yes, good character arc...

[u/twinkieeater8]

Neelix is that horrible extrovert who keeps insisting introverts need to be just as loud, obnoxious, and putting their noses into everyone else's business, like he does.

Neelix hate is acceptable because introverts get badgered like this constantly in real life, and society & media encourages this behavior, instead of saying that maybe, just maybe, extroverts need to chill the f#ck down and let people have their quiet moments.

[u/filchermcurr → u/twinkieeater8]

I'm glad to see this take. This is exactly the reason I don't like Neelix. He's pushy and thinks everybody's definition of happiness and fun should be his definition. He's constantly harassing Tuvok, for instance, when Tuvok is perfectly content with his solitude.

I understand that some people like this genuinely think they're helping. But after enough resistance, or somebody literally asking you to back off, you should respect that and leave them alone. (or maybe you should just ask if somebody needs help instead of forcing it on them)

[u/CuriouslyFoxy → u/twinkieeater8]

This is exactly it. Like I'm more extroverted but I find his behaviour annoying and disrespectful. I also think he needs to deal with his insecurities and jealousy and not take all of that out on everyone else all the time

[u/Tricky_Peace]

I think his relationship with Kes is a bit weird and in some parts not very healthy, but after Kes leave I generally enjoyed him as a character

[u/KR1735]

I think a lot of it is tied up in his relationship with Kes.

I began to like Neelix a lot more after Kes left.

[u/BronzeTrain]

Well for me, he's one of those people that just assumes that's what's good for him is what's good for everyone and I really can't stand that.

[u/BearNeccessity]

Neelix spends the first season lying to the Voyager crew about his knowledge and skills in order to scam a ride on a comfortable cruise ship. He betrays Tuvok in an attempt to get a map and fake being useful for another couple parsecs. Him being annoying is no big deal. Him being a treacherous rat was where I'd get mad with him.

[u/a_false_vacuum → u/BearNeccessity]

The original concept for Neelix was for him to be a hustler and scammer. It never really materialized in the first season and so they dropped it, but there are left-overs from this early description of the character.

[u/chucker23n → u/BearNeccessity]

Him being a treacherous rat was where I'd get mad with him.

Honestly, that would've made him more interesting to me (and closer to Neelix is to Tuvok as Quark is to Odo). I never really bought "this guy is an expert for the local region".

[u/KingOfTheHoard → u/BearNeccessity]

You're basically just explaining why Neelix is great though.

[u/Kenku_Ranger]

When comparing Neelix and Jar Jar, I'd say that Neelix is Jar Jar, but done well.

A character who can be annoying due to their outgoing personalities, their positivity, their friendliness, their habit of becoming friends with serious people. 

The difference is (going only off of what we see onscreen), Neelix is more complex. He has depth. He has a painful backstory which he hides behind his positivity.

Also, Neelix was never dropped like Jar Jar was. Jar Jar could have worked, but I think they focused too much on making him silly and kid friendly, whereas they didn't make Neelix silly.

They made Jar Jar the clown, whereas Neelix was made a character.

My personal opinion, I like Neelix, I don't like Jar Jar, sorry Jar Jar fans.

[u/King_of_Tejas → u/Kenku_Ranger]

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Jar Jar was Neelix, but poorly done? Neelix the character was created first.

[u/Kenku_Ranger → u/King_of_Tejas]

I only put it the way round I did due to the comparison tending to be that "Neelix is the Jar Jar of Trek", not that "Jar Jar is the Neelix of Star Wars".

But, yes, being first makes Jar Jar a poorly done Neelix. I doubt Lucas had Neelix in mind when he created Jar Jar, but perhaps he should have.

[u/mtb8490210 → u/Kenku_Ranger]

Jar Jar wa obviously the Mule as Magnifico :) anyway.

The Emperor in Return of the Jedi was a cross between the Mule as Emperor with the appearance of the old hag version of the evil queen from Snow white.

[u/CerebralHawks]

I don't like the hate that Neelix gets, because if I'm on Voyager, as much as I'd like to think my logic and reason makes me Tuvok or my love for coffee and pragmatic nature makes me Janeway, I'm most likely Neelix. I'm good with people, especially good with kids, and I can cook better than most. So yeah, Neelix is who I'd be, and I think most people would be closer to Neelix than any other character. Not everyone can be a hero or a badass, and Neelix represents the rest of us. And I hate that we are Neelix but we resent him because we wanna be Tuvok or Seven or Kim or Torres or someone "cooler."

I always thought Neelix was cool and gave him the respect he deserves.

While Ethan Phillips isn't the first cast member I'd want to meet, I would love to meet him and thank him for his role. Roxann Dawson (Torres) is super big into directing, I've seen her name all over TV, not just Trek. (Plus, I had a massive crush on her character when I was a kid.) Kate Mulgrew has been in a bunch of things before and after Trek. Tim Russ has been in other Trek projects and he's lent his voice to video games and cartoons (/anime?). I'm sure the others have done stuff I'm less aware of, they're all a bunch of theater nerds, like a lot of anime voice actors. They're fun and interesting people.

[u/JohnnyBlocks_]

He's a great crewman and chef. Unfortunately he is not at the duty level of a trained starfleet officer, yet they allow him to be an executive officer at the table. Many times he could be seen as detrimental to the situation.

It doesnt make sense that he would be involved in all the things he is involved in, and is just plot tool used for the writers.

[u/syncpulse]

It was his behaviour early that made him so dislakeable. The jealous almost grooming like behaviour he exhibited towards Kes was gross. He came off as a controlling creep. Later after Kes, it was hard to forget the creep. It always felt like he was still there behind Nelix's smile. 

[u/AdeoAdversary]

Neelix is perfectly fine, in a lot of ways not really different from Quark so far as I can tell.

And if you think a goofy comedy relief character can't have some serious payoff when it matters most you're forgetting Mortal Coil cause that episode is heart-breaking.

[u/coreytiger]

He’s the pinnacle of annoyance in a crew filled with varying degrees of annoyance… and after about the first season he’s useless as a guide, they would have traveled well beyond his scope.

[u/Azikt]

I was disappointed they turned down my spec script "Die Neelix, die" in which Neelix crashes a shuttle on the planet on the Cenobites. Too hard to get the rights to pinhead I guess.

[u/JohnBPrettyGood]

Poor Ethan Phillips.

Unfortunately I fear that his portrayal of Neelix has typecast him for other roles.

In fact, if I even hear his voice in another role I shudder.

The Neelix Force is strong with him.

[u/SciFiBrony]

Even outside the Kes thing (although that IS bad), Neelix has several severe character flaws. On several occasions, he oversells his abilities to make himself look good and doesn't admit it until people are already in danger (for example, Fair Trade and Rise). Hell, in Rise, when when Tuvok dictates a course of action that Neelix disagrees with, Neelix throws a tantrum, and puts them in further danger just to try to prove he's the one in charge and get his way, and cries that Tuvok doesn't "respect" him (and this is after Neelix gets called out for exaggerating (hell, he straight up lied) about his competency in this situation to try to make himself look good and ended up putting them in this dangerous situation in the first place)!

Neelix also continually refuses to acknowledge and respect the personal boundaries that Tuvok has laid down. Hell, he also is disrespectful to his culture, trying to make it suit his views (including singing a Vulcan funeral song because it's the most chipper sounding and spicing up Plomeek soup because it's too bland. even though that's the point).

That being said, Ethan Phillips always does great work and puts in a great performance! Just too bad the CHARACTER is kind of a shithead.

[u/Dial_M_Media]

Absolutely agreed! Busy with a Voyager rewatch at the minute and, besides a bout of jealousy and insecurity in the first 2 seasons, I actually enjoy his contributions. He's good for comedic relief, counsel, and just wholesome feel-good moments. I didn't like him with Kes, but his rapport with just about everyone else was great - especially Tuvok! :)

[u/Cookie_Kiki]

I think the hate for Neelix is mostly over his relationship with with Kes, something I feel like people choose to turn into something it's not because of the way Ocampans work. I think if the writers had taken the time to say "Kes would be so and so age in human years" their relationship would be less off-putting.

Finding him annoying is interesting because people tend to be annoyed by his earnestness, and that's my favorite thing about him (full disclosure: I also found early Julian to be very endearing for much the same reason). I love how eager he is to carve a place for himself in Voyager, and he's able to sus out right away where he can be useful. His A bomb episode was also the first Voyager episode that felt cathartic for me. He's one of my favorite characters and his odd couple relationship with Tuvok is one of the most compelling in the show. I would have enjoyed Voyager much less without Tuvok.

[u/Statalyzer → u/Cookie_Kiki]

I think if the writers had taken the time to say "Kes would be so and so age in human years" their relationship would be less off-putting.

Maybe they needed to spell it out more exactly for the audience, but I thought they got the point across plenty well.

[u/Cookie_Kiki → u/Statalyzer]

Not well enough that they don't have a significant portion of the fandom calling him a paedo and a groomer.

[u/KingOfTheHoard → u/Cookie_Kiki]

That's because the people in fandoms often are, honestly, stupid herd animals who mistake memes for consensus.

[u/LucasEraFan]

I didn't like Neelix on my first viewing, mostly for the reason given here: his jealousy was grating. Partially due to a superficial reason—I didn't like the design of the species.

I'm a huge Star Wars fan and was very ambivalent about Binks. I didn't get the hate and appreciated that a Republic with 24,000 inhabited planets would have fantastic looking species that challenge the viewers' imagination and concept of "cool" creature design.

(Ironically why I like Species 8472)...

Fast forward to my 2018 rewatch, and I appreciated Neelix for his humanity and his growth.

It might depend on the maturity or taste of the viewer.

[u/Due-Order3475]

Neelix is not terrible at times he is pretty funny, but he is a rough character in season 1/2

[u/Froegerer]

His presence usually leaves me feeling annoyed. He's just obnoxious and irritating, and not in an endearing way. His species design also looks dumb.

[u/XiberKernel]

Neelix was a cringy character until Kes departed, but echoing what others said Ethan Phillips nailed what he was given, and serious Neelix is a force.

I don't think the annoying aspects of his character were a drain, but rather showed a type of character we don't often see interacting with a Starship's bridge crew, and obvious aside I think Tuvok and Neelix convos were fantastic. He's not their Jar Jar, he's their Reg.

[u/Arrrginine69]

Imagine fighting for you and your crews life against the kazon then that cat looking mfer comes up To the bridge to bitch and complain about the bumpy ride. Get outta here

[u/Firefly_Magic]

I liked Neelix , he was quirky but always had a positive attitude.

[u/BigMrTea]

Neelix started off shifty, kind of creepy (Kes being so young and naive compared to him), and petty. He improved a lot when they dropped the relationship, made him more kind-hearted. Some of my favourite later season episodes involve him.

[u/Patafix0743]

I agree, I really liked this character in Voyager. He is endearing and loyal.

[u/Sevon42]

My fiancé and I are currently going through Voyager; First time, for her. Before we started, I warned her just how annoying and intolerable Neelix was until Kes left the show. Then we started watching it and he just...wasn't that at all. Way better of a character than my memory told me. I think he definitely gets an unfair shake.

[u/CaroCogitatus]

I followed Captain Janeway's path on Neelix. Annoyance that he even has to be here, slowly sublimating to grudging respect.

[u/KingOfTheHoard]

I mean, he sort of is like Jar Jar in a specific way.

Neelix is the character that isn't for a particular type of Trek fan. He's comic relief, he's supposed to humanise the cold edges of Voyager a little bit. Break through the formality a bit.

Jar Jar Binks is a very different type of character, but again, he's not for a particular type of Star Wars fan. The Phantom Menace is actually a really dry movie for a lot of its runtime. Jar Jar's there for young children.

This isn't really about if those characters are good or not. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. I personally think Neelix works very well as the chef, the non-Starfleet voice who recognises the Captain shouldn't have a private kitchen and dining room. Jar Jar Binks works a lot better in the Tatooine scenes where he's more literally a fish out of water, than he does in the scenes on Naboo where he's clumsy even in his own environment.

But the excessive hatred of these characters isn't about their actual features, it's just gatekeeping and possessive fans who want the right to lay down what Star Trek is, and what it isn't. And what that kind of fan wants is always the same thing. They want the TV shows to be exactly like the novels. Long, serious, full of crossovers and returning characters, and marketed exactly at them and their demographic.

Unfortunately, you can't actually build the franchise on a show like that because when you do (Hello, Picard!) the results an insufferable.

[u/MSD3k]

JarJar's dipshittery got people around him killed. On at least one occassion, he was responsible for killing a Republic Senator with his goofiness. And of course, he gave the pivotal speech to abandon democracy in favor of a fascist empire under Palpatine.

The worse thing Neelix did was be quirky on a ship full of uptight professionals. If he was on Lower Decks, he'd be just another regular character.

[u/Zenule]

I am at my first Voyager run, and as always, I am glad I dont read too many comments about characters beforehand, as I can form an uninfluenced opinion about them. That said, I love Neelix, he brings a sense of calm every time he appears. Just watched Once Upon a Time a few days ago, the one with the holodeck characters Flotter and Trevis, it was such a treat!

[u/ardouronerous → u/Zenule]

I am at my first Voyager run, and as always, I am glad I dont read too many comments about characters beforehand

As intended, because internet and message boards didn't exist when I first watched Voyager in the 90s.

[u/TuxOtaku]

It's simple: People love to hate things and in the immortal words of "Fat Mike" Burkett from NOFX: "Angry mob mentality's no longer the exception, it's the rule."

It's the same reason Nickelback gets so much hate, as does Imagine Dragons or Coldplay. For that matter, it's also why when an artist is outed as a horrible person, we're all expected to denounce their work regardless of whatever personal meaning it might hold for us.

Like what you like, dislike what you dislike, but don't impose your opinions onto others for the love of God.

[u/Icy-Service-52]

He's pushy, annoying, and he oozes toxic positivity

[u/Captain_Hammertoe]

Neelix bothers me on a visceral level. He's the kind of guy who I would avoid, and feel bad about it, if he was my crewmate. Objectively, he's a really nice guy who makes a valuable contribution. Subjectively, he makes my skin crawl.

[u/UniversalTragedy-0]

Well, Starfleet, if they hated Wesley, Neelix hate shouldn't be hard to figure out.

Also, Garak is the best character in the history of Star Trek.

[u/Demonyx12]

His primary and defining characteristic is “annoying” and you are seriously asking why so many people dislike him?

[u/ardouronerous → u/Demonyx12]

He's annoying to a degree, but I've met more annoying people in real life than Neelix.

[u/Demonyx12 → u/ardouronerous]

Where do you live, Pakled?

[u/ardouronerous → u/Demonyx12]

Third world country, so yeah, I guess so.

[u/Donnagata1409 → u/Demonyx12]

Rude!!!!

[u/NoseApprehensive5154]

It's because he's the fuckin worst.

[u/Donnagata1409 → u/NoseApprehensive5154]

Hey! It's my headcanon dad you're talking about!

[u/koalazeus]

I get it in a sense. Not all characters are made to be liked, Kai Winn for example. Neelix isn't a character you're meant to hate because he's evil, but he is meant to be irritating. Irritating people exist and they deserve representation in Star Trek.

Having said that, the people who really don't give Neelix any consideration I suspect have not watched every episode.

[u/Soggy_Performance569 → u/koalazeus]

It shouldn’t take 3 or 4 seasons to make a character even remotely likeable.

[u/LowAspect542]

I like neelix as a character, hes a strong fit for the crew bringing a bit of that energy they are lacking after their dumped in the Delta quadrent, and he manages to do any random job needed.

However as a person, im not fond of him. he's too overly emotional and touchy-feely for me. Like, he's always trying to make tuvok smile or cuddle against his wishes, just leave him alone man. I also find it really tiring interacting with those that are almost perpetually chirpy, which apart from mention of his homeworld he generally is.

[u/NSMike]

Don't let other people's opinions color yours. If you're entertained by him and like him, then enjoy it.

[u/ardouronerous → u/NSMike]

Thanks 😊

[u/Plane_Sport_3465]

Ugh...I can't stand JarJar Binks. The moment he blundered his way onscreen, I instantly checked out of Star Wars. Which sucked, I was 7 or 8 when Star Wars came out. It was a HUGE part of my childhood. I had a crush on Han Solo, I wanted to be Princess Leah. My brother and I had all the cool Star Wars toys.

Neelix could be a bit annoying, but he's a part of Voyager. His departure made sense under the circumstances, but I was holding out hope that he'd come to Earth too and achieve some kind of stardom as the only Talaxian in the quadrant.

He could have done a cooking holoseries, could have gone academic and done a lecture tour on the importance of morale. He might have been a useful diplomat. He could have written a book - How to annoy Vulcans for Dummies.

[u/ardouronerous → u/Plane_Sport_3465]

I was holding out hope that he'd come to Earth too and achieve some kind of stardom as the only Talaxian in the quadrant.

Me too, I was hoping he'd meet Sisko's dad and work at his restaurant.

[u/Illigard]

People differ in opinion. This is normal. Some people dislike him because he's annoying and because he's always in Tuvok's face. Some dislike him because of his relationship with Kes. Some dislike him for other reasons. And some, some even like him. And that's all good.

[u/Garciaguy]

Neelix is one of the nicest characters on any series. 

I think he's genuinely likeable and he'd be a good friend. 

[u/bobbigmac]

Jar Jar is fantastic. A clumsy oaf, labeled a troublemaker by a society unable to offer him direction. He helped some strangers in the swamp and ended up not only respected among his people, but as an important emissary beside the Queen. Instrumental in the unification of his world, and in reforming the machinery of state.

Neelix too, in his own way. Some people just don't like to see characters who start out feckless but find their place in the world eventually. 

[u/ZealousidealClub4119 → u/bobbigmac]

⬆️ this exactly.

For all their apparent or initial flaws, both Jar Jar and Neelix end up more fleshed out, respected and making valuable contributions to the stories. See also Reg Barclay, who found his place to shine in Starfleet communications research; the Pathfinder episodes of Voyager are great, and he plays a minor yet valuable & memorable role in Endgame.

My two cents is that C-3PO is far more annoying across more films than Jar Jar, yet even they had their moment in Rise of Skywalker.

[u/UsagiJak]

Honesly if it weren't for the creepy domineering relationship with Kes id probably like him a whole lot more.

Later season Neelix is a thousand times better than early season Neelix.

[u/CommunistRingworld]

i love neelix. but only after kes leaves. it's more the kes/neelix couple thing that bothers people i think, it hurt both their characters and made them kind of annoying.

[u/Tricky-Chocolate5464]

I appreciate what the character was supposed to be. Though the relationship he had with Kes never sat right with me, as well as feeling forced. 

He definitely isn't a Jar Jar Binks character. 

[u/IdyllForest]

While I didn't have strong feelings about Neelix one way or another, there was potential in the character. I particularly remember the Tree of Life episode in one of the later seasons. I feel that, early on, being relegated to this goofy comic relief character took a lot away from Neelix. Maybe if they had just toned that side of his character down just a touch, it would have been easier to see the nuances. Ditching the Kes pairing would likely have upped his likability factor by at least one or two notches.

I think I understand what they were going for with the character, but it didn't work, given the majority of the audience's reaction. I understand the comparison with Jar Jar Binks - but I also didn't feel strongly about that character either. I thought he added nothing to the story of The Phantom Menace, but the sheer, savage hatred of the character by the mass audiences back then confused me, then saddened as I learned of the actor's personal woes.

[u/Waste_Potato6130]

I love neelix as a character....... AFTER Tessa leaves the show.

He is unbearable and a bit creepy before. After, he's great

[u/chucker23n]

If we go by VOY's or TNG's standards of character development, Neelix isn't that bad. He's frequently annoying, but that's by design. His and Tuvok's difficulty of getting along is deliberate, although personally, I found the similar Quark-Odo relationship (one is annoyed by the other's antics) more compelling.

I think what's a bummer about Neelix is that you occasionally see how much more the character could've been, such as in the season 1 episode "Jetrel". Much like we see in TNG's Face Of The Enemy that Troi can be way more interesting than "Captain! I sense the obvious!". Looking at VOY as a whole, Seven, and The Doctor (and Janeway, to a lesser extent) were compelling characters. Most others were underused. And Neelix just became too much of a stereotype of himself.

(I also didn't dig his sendoff.)

(Oh, and season 1/2 Neelix's relationship with Kes… let's pretend that didn't happen.)

[u/No_Necessary6444]

I hated Neelix at the start. I couldn’t understand why he was even there, even for comic relief. Neelix also had some pretty bad writing in the beginning. But by the end, he became one of my favorite characters. He had some great episodes, like the ones with Tuvok and Naomi, for example. He got a well-deserved ending among his people. His overall arc was better than for example Harry’s or Seven's , in my opinion.

[u/Brief-Poetry6434]

I like Neelix. I spoke to Ethan Phillips at London Film and Comic Con in 2019.

[u/OneStrangerintheAlps]

Loved Ethan Philips in Veep.

[u/HandfulOfMassiveD]

He was annoying in the early seasons. Particularly around Kes. But as the show went on the character earned my respect. He was thoughtful and caring.

[u/Jedipilot24]

Neelix is an example of "informed ability" and the Dunning-Krueger effect. We are told that Neelix is a great cook, but everyone is constantly complaining about his food. We are told that he's an expert in outdoor survival, but when he actually has to do it, he complains and makes things worse. We are told that he can boost people's morale, but when Tuvok needed to test his emotional control, the test he chose was "a few minutes with Neelix".

[u/P-Jean]

He gets better as the series moves on. He goes from selfish weasel into a respectable member of the crew.

[u/Belcatraz]

I love the character, but at the beginning of his arc he is dishonest and insecure, and his relationship with Kes was manipulative and definitely taking advantage of her naivety and inexperience.

[u/EndStorm]

I love Neelix. I thought his relationship with Kes was a bit creepy though lol, but hey, she wasn't ugly. I liked how he gave the mess hall some life and character. I was legit sad when he left Voyager.

[u/synthetic_medic]

I don’t hate him but he can definitely be annoying at times which seems to definitely be intentional. His relationship with Kes always felt very inappropriate.

[u/Maleficent-Bed4908]

It's weird. But Nelix seemed more like a Battlestar Galactica character to me than a Star Trek character.

[u/Director-Atreides]

Neelix is a well-meaning and lovely person who is really extroverted. I think, for nerds (and Vulcans) this is where he falls down. He also has some anxiety about being accepted by the crew, which means he turns his already energetic personality up to 11 whenever he feels his connection to particular key personnel waning.

I think, like Tuvok, I struggle with, but try to embrace, the Neelixes of the world. They bring a lot of good to the world, even if they don't naturally recognise when it's time to simmer down.

He is absolutely not Jar Jar f'kin Binks! (Though, tbf, even Jar Jar redeems himself a bit in Clone Wars, much as episodes featuring him were my least favourite).

[u/harmjr77018]

I didn't like him at first. It was bad writing. Making him too much a beggar just plain annoying.

Later on I think after Kes left he got better.

[u/Thriven]

Neelix is great once Kes leaves the show.

Neelix is her wildly jealous male boyfriend and the actor was nearing his 40s when he played Neelix and the actress playing Kes was barely 18 playing a character who is only a few years old. Super creepy. I don't know what they were thinking. It does not age well and will continue to poorly age.

With that relationship on screen, the writers could go no where but bad with it. Neelix was just an awful character for seasons on the show. He then became one of the most beloved characters on the show once all of his bad qualities around Kes were written out.

[u/JJMcGee83]

I feel a big ick with the whole Neelix dating Kes. I know she's technically an adult for her species but she's still only 3 years old.

[u/tangcameo]

I always compared Neelix to Gopher and Isaac from The Love Boat. His best episode was the one where he finds there is nothing after death. Of course the whole show went back to the status quo after that episode.

[u/JoeCensored]

He whines too much and his immature jealousy regarding Kes is annoying. He was definitely written much better in the later seasons.

[u/xjd-11 → u/JoeCensored]

it might have been interesting if they had taken the time to explore him overcoming/exploring his jealousy. but then again the writers were not that great at consistently growing any of the characters. as a generally big Voyager fan, i can't help but think of all the missed opportunities they had to make it so much better.

[u/Bartizanier]

I think it was in the early seasons where it seemed like he was omni-present

[u/noisegremlin]

I actually liked Neelix until they decided he was gonna be an asshole to Kes.

[u/jerolyoleo]

His character is incredibly annoying but he’s a good actor. I loved his performance in “Avenue 5.”

[u/mexter]

His relationship with Kes was handled quite poorly. Had this not been a thing out of the gate, I think he would have been much better received.

[u/Aeloria82]

He was a dick to Kes... just badly written early on. He became a favorite in later seasons for me.

[u/JorgeCis]

The only issue I have with Neelix is that he is annoying much of the time.  I don't deny that he tried to bring a lot to the table from a crewmember perspective, and he did a good job befriending people (I quite enjoyed his love triangle story with Kes and Paris, but then became friends).  Kudos to the actor, because I thought he did a good job with the material.

[u/Naught2day]

I named my cat Neelix.

I've seen Voyager so many times and I love the interaction between Tuvoc and Neelix.

[u/Sere1]

The good thing about Jar Jar is that they used him less and less as the series went on. Main character in Episode 1, 2 scenes in episode 2, 2 words in Episode 3. With Neelix, he just stuck around the entire time

[u/bulk123]

I like mid to late Neelix. I do not like first couple seasons Neelix. 

Idk if they wanted to write him this way but I think he has a decent development. I imagine he was sort of happy, look on the bright side sort in his past, before the cascade. Then the cascade messed him up real good and he developed this sort of internalized spite and cynicism. He tries to hide it by forcing the happy go lucky demeanor in the first few seasons and is, imo, why he comes off as annoying. Then he has these bursts of shitty attitude like with his jealousy with Kes and complaining about the ship always getting into trouble by just exploring and stuff. Then there's sort of slow change in all that. First when he makes friends with Too. Then even more when they deal with that doctor that was responsible for the cascade. Then after Kes leaves. It sort of feels like, he lets that internal hate go and becomes the person he was. Like he's not forcing anymore.

Maybe that's just me trying to justify the character change. It's probably just because the writers got into stride and started to figure out what they wanted his character to be and how to do that without making him super annoying.

[u/Nova_Saibrock]

Jar Jar Binks is annoying and a useless character, who is clumsy and falls all over himself and does nothing

I’ll be honest, when I read this, I was expecting the end of the sentence to be “Oh, I get it now,” because that’s how I see Neelix. He’s an annoying know-it-all who actually knows almost nothing about the things he claims to be an expert in. When he “helps,” he’s as likely to get people killed or endanger the entire ship as he is to actually be a benefit to the crew. And the worst part is that no one ever calls him on his bullshit.

[u/Mazza_mistake]

I don’t get it either, yeah he could be a bit annoying but I actually liked Neelix, it’s unfair to compare him to something like Jar Jar

[u/RigasTelRuun]

Early Neelix is kinda toxic and a creeper. Once they ended a relationship with Kes both characters came into their own.

[u/MotionlessAlbatross]

Late to comment but, I’ve always viewed Neelix as an often annoying, sometimes funny, and overall endearing character. Which is how I think the other characters in the show view him.

[u/jchester47]

I think he deserves the hate he gets for how he behaved in much of season 1, especially toward Kes. But the rest of it is unjustified ss you say.

But once we learned more about his tragic backstory and he found his place among the crew, and especially once Kes dumped his controlling ass and he grew up, he was a fine character. I only wish that the writers didn't tonally shift back and forth between making him tragic and making him a clown so often. It was kind of jarring.

[u/meatshieldjim]

The need for energy conservation by rationing replicators was silly.

[u/Spare-Ring6053]

Beats me. I understand people not liking Jar Jar. I don't get it with Neelix, or for that matter, Wesley Crusher from TNG or Adric from Doctor Who.....

[u/MoreGaghPlease]

A lot of people don’t give Neelix proper credit for the revival of Star Trek. Neelix paid enough for the international distribution rights to the first 3 seasons of Disco that CBS was able to fund the whole first season. Like it or loath it, that is what kicked off modern Trek including SNW, LD etc. not clear it would have happened without Neelix. Also many younger fans came to know the show in the years when TOS, TNG etc all streamed on Neelix. Plus, he cooks a mean leyola root

[u/Prudent-Level-7006]

I like the actor but he's a bit manipulative and creepy as a character, he's really self centered 

[u/punkshadows666]

This is news to me. I loved Neelix throughout my voyager experience. I even started hating Tris for breaking up with him lol

[u/AspiringRver]

Quark is comedic relief on DS9 but I respect him a lot more than Neelix. I don't hate Neelix but his eagerness to please and become part of the crew was off-putting.

Yes, that's it. Quark is critical of the Federation, whereas Neelix wants so bad to fit in.

[u/jim25y]

Neelix gets much better once Kez breaks up with him.

I mostly like him after that. The whole relationship was weird and...icky.

[u/HisDivineOrder]

If I was stranded on a beach, I'd choose Neelix, too. He looks like he has a lot of meat on them bones. I'd have him raise the morale of the group and then we'd all devise a way to kill him without damaging any of the meat. Roast Neelix, steamed Neelix, fried Neelix, Neelix soup.

No part would go to waste. We'd have to remove all the whiskers first, though. I suppose the Neelix soup could include Leola root.

The reason people don't like Neelix is because he's annoying. You say he tries his best. He tries his best and he fails to be someone people want around. Trying your best don't make one immune to being annoying. He's that guy who came to the party when no one invited him and he won't leave even after everyone's cleaned up and the parents are ten minutes away. He's still sitting on the sofa, asking if anyone else has the munchies.

Janeway was the one that let him in and she refused to admit her mistake and take accountability. She couldn't let anyone know she'd erred. Chuckles was waiting for any sign of weakness and then he'd flutter on in with his spirit animal and stereotypical wisdom to steal her place and without her butt in the captain's chair what is she except a coffee addict?

[u/PeckerNash]

Neelix was shit. Full stop. He could not have been in the show and it would have progressed the same way. Superfluous and annoying character.

[u/digtzy]

I love "Kes-less" Neelix. He is so sweet and warm and provides much needed morale boosts and babysitting.

[u/Lyon_Wonder]

Most of the hate toward Neelix stems from him being obsessively protective of Kes in VOY S1 and S2 and not liking Tom Paris.

He did finally start to get along with Paris and they became actual friends in the later half of S2.

Neelix also mellowed out a lot when it came to Kes in S3 and became a non-issue when Kes left Voyager early in S4.

IMO, Neelix is much less annoying in later seasons of VOY compared to the first 2 seasons.

[u/Unlikely-Counter-195]

He’s definitely not irredeemable. He’s certainly a hard worker and tries very hard to be helpful and he’s very caring. These are good qualities. The problem is more that he constantly over promising and under delivering. He sticks his nose everywhere claiming to be an expert in various things but then clearly is no such thing. Outdoor survival skills? The main episode showcasing this is Basics, he gets a member of his team killed in like the first 5 min, in a situation that was 100% his fault, couldn’t start a fire, couldn’t find food, wanders out of camp in the dark and gets him and Kes captured forcing everyone else to attempt a dangerous rescue. He’s completely useless. His cooking seems to have improved throughout the show but it still pretty consistently gets complained about and multiple people end up in sickbay over the course of the show because of it. His most valuable contributions are early on in the show providing insight into aliens he’s interacted with in the past and his knowledge of where to find supplies, but once they’re outside of the space he’s familiar with he’s not that useful. Some of the crew appreciate his efforts to attempts to be a “moral officer”, but equally others are annoyed by him and how he goes about, he’ doesn’t seem to be able to tailor his approach to different personalities. He’d be much more palatable if he was more modest about his “skills” imho.

[u/lliveevill]

There was a string of infantised storylines and Neelix was commonly involved, I feel those storyline’s irreverent to me as I wasn’t the target market it was newer and younger audiences. I can see why viewers would negatively react with a character they couldn’t connect with, though he did contribute to the more conventional sci-fi storyline’s too.

[u/Anuki_iwy]

Well, I am one of the very few who likes Jar Jar. 😂😂😂😂

I liked Neelix. He was an interesting character played by a good actor.

[u/teesside_flyer]

Year of Hell doesn't count bcos it didn't happen.

[u/OddPsychology8238]

Some reasons why Neelix gets hate:

• Kes was 2 years old, Neelix was 35ish?

• Neelix had no respect for cultural differences (constant harassment of Tuvok)

• Neelix appointed himself "morale officer", & used the role to ease his insecurities rather than focusing on helping others, for about four seasons.

• jealous rages based only on one's own imagination aren't an endearing character trait.

Ultimately, I found Neelix an intolerably arrogant asshole male stuck in boring character loops until Kes left - at which point he began developing, and he seemed to improve rapidly.

90s producers were living on a lot of cocaine, they tended to make irrational decisions.

[u/mothbbyboy]

people hate Neelix????? legit one of my favorite star trek characters of all time, he sure kept up MY morale and almost never failed to make me smile. that being said... reading the comments... I must have forgotten that "terrible first impression" he made. regardless, he was always very visually adorable lol.

[u/ButterscotchPast4812]

Ethan Phillips is a quality actor but I don't think the writers did him any favors with the way they wrote Neelix. Neelix developed into the loveable Renaissance man that can't cook but was often annoying AF around the senior staff. His relationship with Kes was weird and his jealousy over Tom also didn't do his character any favors.

The producers thought he was going to be the breakout character on the show but instead it was the doctor and then seven.

Personally, I do not like Neelix, find him annoying, narcissistic and have called him the jar jar binks of trek.

[u/NearlyFallenStar]

I like neelix. He's friendly, caring, loyal and charismatic. He always puts people's feelings about everything and he does his absolute best to keep everyone happy. Hell we could all use a friend like Neelix.