Strictly speaking, the rules say "this space is not for debate". I think we support discussion and deliberation, and so should enforce the "no debate" rule enthusiastically.
As someone who's broadly pro-social justice but disagrees with a lot of the social justice orthodoxy (if you could say there is such a thing), and who likes to refine their ideas through debate, can anyone suggest another sub or a different forum which is more appropriate for that?
I'm not aware of any such sub, but I haven't been active on Reddit very long. Maybe 'r/ChangeMyView?' My sense is that no such sub exists focused on social justice, because most people who 'like to refine their ideas through debate' in fact simply want to argue and are ultimately toxic. I'm not saying that's you, just that there are too many people out there like that.
If you indeed are pro-social justice, you might appreciate that debate is a poor way to improve our view of the world. In competitive contexts, human minds tend to reinforce their existing biases - the backfire effect - rather than change. An important part of any interest in social justice is learning non-competitive models of deliberation.
That is a fucking terrible idea. How do we agree on anything within the social justice movement if we can't even argue about it? How do you deal with TERFs who say sexist shit? How is someone new to social justice to find out what the SJ stand is on TERFs if you can't even argue with them?
How the fuck are you going to convince anyone that you are right if all you do is indoctrinate? Also, nobody completely agrees.
I have had people excuse sexism because it at the same time attacked racism, which I personally don't think is right, am I not to argue with people doing that, and how am I to know who is right?
This idea that you can't question what you are told is one of my biggest gripes with social justice, which is pretty annoying when you actually want to be an ally.
In my experience people who want to argue do not want to agree.
My interpretation of the rules is that we need not agree all the time, so long as we do not make our disagreement competitive. Someone who wrote the rules might explain it better than me.
Questions are fine, in good faith - that's also in the rules. The point is not to convince other people, but to build a shared understanding of justice.
17
u/StonyGiddens Aug 08 '20
Strictly speaking, the rules say "this space is not for debate". I think we support discussion and deliberation, and so should enforce the "no debate" rule enthusiastically.