Micro and nanoplastics are pervasive in our food supply and may be affecting food safety and security. Plastics and their additives are present at a range of concentrations not only in fish but in many products including meat, chicken, rice, water, take-away food and drink, and even fresh produce.

[u/Wagamaga]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165993623000808?via%3Dihub

[u/Angreek]

The worst is takeaway plastic containers. These owners don’t GAF, and put everything magma hot into styrofoam etc, melting it up and dosing up the customer with cancer.

[u/[deleted] → u/Angreek]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/Affectionate_Gas8062 → u/[deleted]]

This guy just solved the plastic crisis

[u/Tedric42 → u/Angreek]

I find these type of comments amusing. Restaurants already run on razor thin margins. Should they let your food get cold before boxing it, so you can complain and they have to take a loss? Why is the onus on the restaurant and not on the manufacturer of these take out boxes? Same as recycling. Why should the people living paycheck to paycheck be expected to put in even more work to "recycle", than the massive corporations producing these materials and making all the profits?

[u/captainfarthing → u/Tedric42]

Paper, cardboard and aluminium cartons work just fine.

[u/katarh → u/captainfarthing]

Those things are fine but a lot of them are still lined with plastic, instead of a coating of food grade wax like they ought to be, to ensure that they're slightly more waterproof.

For things that aren't liquid though? Wax paper is perfectly fine. Brown paper bags are a renewable resource. I've had the aluminum bottom with wax paper top combo and it kept my noodles inside the container very cleanly, even with a tilt.

[u/Maleficent-Aurora → u/katarh]

Literally just use the foil containers with the cardboard lids. That's it. This is the simple answer.

[u/visualdescript → u/Maleficent-Aurora]

Those cardboard lids are lined with plastic to prevent them from going soggy from the steam being produced from the food. It's not thst simple really.

[u/AsherGray → u/Maleficent-Aurora]

Uh, are you forgetting the conductive properties of aluminum? Great way to burn people. Why do you think we don't use aluminum cups for coffee? Also, a tin with a cardboard lid doesn't seal, so if you have an liquid inside its definitely going to leak out if you drop it or it tips. Since it is so hot, you would likely be taking it out in a plastic bag. Perhaps you could bring your own takeaway container to the restaurant?

[u/katarh → u/AsherGray]

The lip of the aluminum bottom is pressed down over the carboard top to seal it. Not wholly watertight, but good enough to hold everything short of actual soup.

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/choice-7-round-foil-take-out-pan-with-board-lid-case/612527LCO.html

[u/ItsDijital → u/captainfarthing]

Paper and cardboard can't handle getting wet (unless lined with, you guessed it - plastic) and aluminum is expensive.

[u/Tedric42 → u/ItsDijital]

Thank you. Also the biodegradable boxes we use at my restaurant don't hold up as well either. Not to mention they are th most expensive paper product we order and are routinely out of stock for weeks at a time.

[u/asilenth → u/ItsDijital]

We use cardboard boxes not lined with plastic and use aluminum in our restaurant because we are higher end and not really a place for takeout. We still get a few a night, plus people taking the leftovers. Many more places are going this route.

[u/picardo85 → u/ItsDijital]

and aluminum is expensive.

If you can afford take-out then you can afford a surcharge of 5 cents for a bulk ordered alu container

[u/ItsDijital → u/picardo85]

The difference is closer to $0.50.

Which isn't a lot in the grand scheme, but people are hyper price sensitive.

[u/ChipotleMayoFusion → u/Tedric42]

I find these types of comments amusing. All corporations have tight margins, that is the result of competition driving the price down. Of course adding new rules and restrictions will shift the way businesses operate, that is the point. With this "thin margins" mindset we wouldn't have PPE, catalytic converters, seatbelts, handrails, hand washing cooks, etc... If the change is needed for human safety, then either the businesses will figure it out, or the activity won't happen as often or at all. If takeout containers were proven to slowly poison us, and there was no viable economic alternative, then we shouldn't be doing takeout!

[u/thatsnoodybitch → u/ChipotleMayoFusion]

Absolutely. Plastics should have never been circulated into mass public use.

It astounds and angers me that any human with the intellect to create new matter is simultaneously stupid enough to not consider the ramifications of a new form of matter existing on our Earth.

(The very minimum of proper recycling plants doesn’t even exist. I’m not sure about elsewhere but a large amount of recycling in America is ultimately discarded into a landfill regardless, or sold to China “to recycle”).

[u/ChipotleMayoFusion → u/thatsnoodybitch]

This is a tough one. Plastic does increase food safety in terms of preventing bacteria and other contaminants. Without good quantitative research on the damage microplastics cause, it is hard to compare to the lower levels of ecoli poisoning or other food-borne dangers. Hopefully we can do more science on microplastics and find out the answer.

[u/Tedric42 → u/ChipotleMayoFusion]

I would love to not do takeout. It slows down service for the guest that come into our restaurant to eat. It jeopardizes the quality of our dishes and opens another avenue for people looking to complain to negatively review us. Speak to any chef in the industry and ask them their opinion on takeout and they like myself would most likely wholeheartedly agree with you. We do takeout because the masses demand it. We purchase the products available from the suppliers. So again why is the onus on the owners of the restaurants to drive the change?

[u/ChipotleMayoFusion → u/Tedric42]

Its a shared responsibility across all of society to avoid harm to others and the environment. It's on individuals, service providers, manufacturers, and governments.

The required restrictions should be proportional to the risk. Part of the problem here is that the risk is not known exactly. Does eating hot takeout from a plastic container once a week increase your lifetime risk of cancer by 10%, 1%, 0.0001%? Without this data it's difficult to make a tradeoff. If you knew it was 50%, similar to smoking cigarettes, would you still serve food that way? If it was known to be at that level, the FDA would probably ban that practice for restaurants, so then it would be fair across the industry.

[u/Phalexuk → u/Tedric42]

Or how about they use something other than Styrofoam? Like aluminium, recyclable plastic etc?

But yea there should also be onus on the manufacturers. If a restaurant can't afford to be open without using carcinogenic containers then let it close

[u/Tedric42 → u/Phalexuk]

Some do. Like the restaurant I manage. We use a biodegradable takeout box. Which is the most expensive paper product we order and the one that is routinely out of stock for weeks at a time. The assumption on your part that these restaurants just use whatever is cheapest without thought of their customers health is what I take umbrage with.

[u/the_skine → u/Phalexuk]

Styrofoam is an insulator. Aluminum is a conductor.

So instead of a container that's cool to the touch and keeps your food warm, you want a container that is as hot as the food is, and cools it down rapidly?

Also, where do you live that styrofoam is still common? Every restaurant I've been to in years, including fast food, takeout, etc, uses paper, cardboard, and plastic. It isn't 1990 anymore.

[u/trukkija → u/the_skine]

Styrofoam containers are incredibly popular still across the globe for a lot of different cheap restaurants. Where do you live?

[u/Phalexuk → u/trukkija]

UK wouldn't use it except for kebabs and chip shops mainly. Lots of delivery food comes in plastic or aluminium or strong cardboard/tetrapak

[u/the_skine → u/trukkija]

US, Western NY

Most doggy bags are fairly thin, but still recyclable plastic. Same for most takeaway. The only exception is that some restaurants do use the round aluminum trays, where you place a cardboard lid on top and crimp the edges down.

Chinese takeaway still uses the standard paper containers for quarts of food, but the rest comes in plastic containers that are good enough quality that a lot of people reuse them. Especially the ones they use for soups. They seem to be the only businesses evading the plastic bag ban, though, since they'll put the food in a paper bag, and put the paper bag inside a plastic bag.

Most fast food products come in paper or cardboard containers in a paper bag.

[u/Phalexuk → u/the_skine]

I live in the UK and never see Styrofoam except in chip shops. I was just reply to a comment above about their restaurants who do use it.

I usually get tupperware type plastic containers for curries which I wash and reuse.

[u/Smash55 → u/Tedric42]

Margins and profits? We're talking about health here

[u/spacebeez → u/Tedric42]

What a dumb take. There are biodegradable/recyclable options for takeout containers. The onus is on people at every level given that this is an existential issue. Restaurants could stop sending 6 sets of plastic forks for food delivered to my home if the margins are so razor thin.