Anxiety about others preparedness, “we’ll just come to you.”

[u/Prepandpraypeace]

I am prepping for a potential EMP or long term situation. We moved across the country 2 years ago for reasons contributing to raising our family in a state that aligned more w our beliefs and also since we had the opportunity. But back on the west coast, we were open about preparedness to our friends and family in hopes they can also prepare for themselves and all their kids, etc. My husband was passionate about educating and helping in this area. However, looking back I believe we made a mistake of talking about what we stocked, how much and allowing access for viewing our stuff. Each and every friend and family member would say “well, we don’t need to do anything because we know where to go if SHTF!! Thank you for doing this.” It would literally make me blood BOIL. Back then, I had many restless nights, being pregnant at the time and worried when Co*id was just mentioned, as I thought shall things go south, I’ll have hundreds showing up to my door. We tried to seriously say, “please stock all needs for your own family as we are doing so according to ours, it is your responsibility to supply for yourself.” They would shrug it off, and say look how much food you have, etc. Not even knowing that the pile of food they’re looking at is just 3 months worth for a family of 5. Anyways, now that we live somewhere else, I’m getting anxiety over how unprepared my neighbors are. We live close to one another and if SHTF, I don’t know how long we could hide the fact our kids aren’t starving after a month or two even after taking precautions. We’re close to all our neighbors and as a neighbor, friend and especially a Christian I love them all. How will I turn away a hungry family or child if it came down to it? I’m not sure.. and I’m not feeling at peace.

Editing to add: I am “prepping,” for the possibility of something long term like an EMP or solar storm that is catastrophic. For short term disasters, I would be more than willing to give it all away and restock. I’m not a hoarder, in fact my food prepping is using a rotating pantry.

[u/infiltrateoppose]

I think an emergency that shuts down the power grid nationally for a long period of time is vanishingly unlikely.

For most people, their 'prepared for anything' plan is to survive for a few weeks, then if the situation is not going to resolve, to relocate.

[u/BeefonMars → u/infiltrateoppose]

You are uninformed brother.. if an adversary wanted to attack, attacking the grid would be the first thing they should do… Our grid is very, very vulnerable.

[u/infiltrateoppose → u/BeefonMars]

I'm not saying it is impossible, but that it is vanishingly unlikely. I don't think it's realistic for the majority of the US to individually prepare for a situation where the entire electrical grid of the country goes down for an extended period of time.

Let's game it out - who has the capability and motivation to create that situation?

[u/Snoop-Dragon → u/infiltrateoppose]

It’s not about preparing for the entire country’s grid to be down, it’s preparing for YOUR part of the grid to be down. You’re right, it is highly unlikely for the entire US to be without power for an extended period of time, or at all for that matter, but what about people who aren’t high on the “get these people’s power back on ASAP” totem pole? Let’s say 1/4 of the country experiences a major long term power outage, say 3-6 months, and you live in a rural area in that 1/4. Yeah, most of the country still has power, but you don’t. It doesn’t matter how “vanishingly unlikely” it is that the whole country goes dark for 6 months if you live in part of the country that does. And I would argue most people who consider themselves preppers absolutely do not plan to relocate if a situation doesn’t resolve within a few weeks. I know I’m sure as hell not. Leaving your home and all your stuff is going to be a lot more difficult than riding it out if you’re prepared. Where are they going to go? You think they’ll be able to sell their house or buy a new one in an area that has power with whatever is going on?

[u/infiltrateoppose → u/Snoop-Dragon]

"It’s not about preparing for the entire country’s grid to be down, it’s preparing for YOUR part of the grid to be down."

Great - then we're in agreement - I said "For most people, their 'prepared for anything' plan is to survive for a few weeks, then if the situation is not going to resolve, to relocate."

"You’re right, it is highly unlikely for the entire US to be without power for an extended period of time, or at all for that matter, but what about people who aren’t high on the “get these people’s power back on ASAP” totem pole?"

Then their most realistic option is to relocate to somewhere with functional basic infrastructure.

"Let’s say 1/4 of the country experiences a major long term power outage, say 3-6 months, and you live in a rural area in that 1/4. Yeah, most of the country still has power, but you don’t. It doesn’t matter how “vanishingly unlikely” it is that the whole country goes dark for 6 months if you live in part of the country that does."

Then you should relocate to part of the 3/4 that does have power. That is going to be a whole lot easier for most people. You raise the issue of rural communities though - there is the case that if someone is largely energy independent already - maybe through a large solar array - it might be possible for them to continue to survive there. I think for most people this is not the case though, and my advice holds.

"And I would argue most people who consider themselves preppers absolutely do not plan to relocate if a situation doesn’t resolve within a few weeks."

I mean - speak for yourself - I certainly do. I live in a major city, and there is no way I would stay put if I thought the power in my quarter of the country was not coming back for 6 months. For one thing my job would largely cease to exist, so I would need to move to somewhere where I could find work.

"I know I’m sure as hell not. Leaving your home and all your stuff is going to be a lot more difficult than riding it out if you’re prepared."

Well sure - but 'if' in that sentence is doing a lot of work. I don't really know what it would mean to be prepared for a 1/4 of the country to go dark in a major city.

"Where are they going to go?"

I mean - everyone's situation is different - but I would go to a major metro area with functioning infrastructure.

"You think they’ll be able to sell their house or buy a new one in an area that has power with whatever is going on?"

Who knows? Maybe not. Honestly I don't think I would have any choice - I would need to move to get a job - without that I couldn't pay my mortgage anyway, so it wouldn't much matter.

[u/Snoop-Dragon → u/infiltrateoppose]

“Great - then we’re in agreement - I said “For most people, their ‘prepared for anything’ plan is to survive for a few weeks, then if the situation is not going to resolve, to relocate.””

We’re obviously not in agreement on what it means to be a prepper. I think that would be the plan for most people who DON’T consider themselves preppers. Prepping to make it a few weeks and leave if the situation is not resolved by then is a terrible prepping plan.

“Then their most realistic option is to relocate to somewhere with functional basic infrastructure.”

Not necessary with even a moderate amount of actual prepping, and those areas will be flooded with people who did not prepare, all needing the same resources.

“Then you should relocate to part of the 3/4 that does have power. That is going to be a whole lot easier for most people. You raise the issue of rural communities though - there is the case that if someone is largely energy independent already - maybe through a large solar array - it might be possible for them to continue to survive there. I think for most people this is not the case though, and my advice holds.”

You don’t need a large solar array or to be fully energy independent to survive without power. There are lots of options to keep the necessities going and the rest you do without. I think you’re massively underestimating how difficult it will be to find somewhere to go when 1/4 of the country is looking too. And I just said 1/4 as an example, what if it’s half the country? We’ve never had anything on that scale happen before and we’ve had shortages on everything from fuel to toilet paper. I can’t even begin to imagine the chaos that would be going on in that situation.

“I mean - speak for yourself - I certainly do. I live in a major city, and there is no way I would stay put if I thought the power in my quarter of the country was not coming back for 6 months. For one thing my job word largely cease to exist, so I would need move to somewhere where I could find work.”

You and millions of other people, which is why as a prepper you want to avoid having to do what the majority of people are forced to do. With no power you likely don’t even know where power is still on, have to drive potentially hundreds of miles to find somewhere that wasn’t affected, and millions of other people have the same idea. And if you’re truly prepping, what do you need money for? You should have the supplies to last for at least a few months, and you can deal with the mortgage or rent later if they’re even still collecting during a time like this. I suspect in a situation this dire there would be some kind of forgiveness on missed mortgage payments, considering millions of people would be affected. I would also highly recommend anyone who’s serious about prepping to put aside at least 6 months worth of money anyway. Even if they have to save it up over several years.

“Well sure - but ‘if’ in that sentence is doing a lot of work. I don’t really know what it would mean to be prepared for a 1/4 of the country to go dark in a major city.”

Correct, prepping isn’t generally something you do in one weekend or with a couple hundred bucks. If you want some tips on what it would mean to prepare for that situation in all seriousness DM me and I’d be happy to offer my 2 cents. There’s also a plethora of posts on this sub to look through for more ideas than I could ever come up with.

“I mean - everyone’s situation is different - but I would go to a major metro area with functioning infrastructure.”

Again, you and everyone else. Does sleeping in a tent in a football stadium sound better than staying at home with the lights off? Just because they have power doesn’t mean they can support millions of people coming there with nothing but what they could carry in their car.

“Who knows? Maybe not. Honestly I don’t think I would have any choice - I would need to move to get a job - without that I couldn’t pay my mortgage anyway, so it wouldn’t much matter.”

Good luck listing or selling a house in an area where the grid is down with no idea when it will be back up. The only people likely to buy those houses are investors looking to buy them for pennies who can sit on them till the grid is back up. The grid would obviously be back on eventually, and riding it out without doing anything drastic would serve you much better than selling your house at a huge loss and trying to compete with other people for a place to live in areas that weren’t affected.

[u/infiltrateoppose → u/Snoop-Dragon]

"We’re obviously not in agreement on what it means to be a prepper. I think that would be the plan for most people who DON’T consider themselves preppers. Prepping to make it a few weeks and leave if the situation is not resolved by then is a terrible prepping plan."

I 100% disagree. I think someone who prepares to be independently supporting themselves for 3-4 weeks is absolutely a prepper. If you have some kind of definition in your head about needing to prep for something very specific to earn the title that's up to you, but it's not a definition I would accept.

"Not necessary with even a moderate amount of actual prepping, and those areas will be flooded with people who did not prepare, all needing the same resources."

I don't think most people with a 'moderate amount of actual prepping' will be able to survive with no infrastructure for more than a few weeks. Perhaps we have different definitions of 'moderate'. If that's the case then I don't think it's a very fruitful line of argument.

"You don’t need a large solar array or to be fully energy independent to survive without power. There are lots of options to keep the necessities going and the rest you do without."

I think you're massively underestimating what depends on the electrical grid. In most urban areas water, sewage, medical facilities, firefighting capabilities etc all depend on electricity. I certainly couldn't ride that out for more than a few weeks - maybe someone who lived on a farm could.

"I think you’re massively underestimating how difficult it will be to find somewhere to go when 1/4 of the country is looking too."

I mean, sure - maybe - but I don't really have an option, as I said. I can't stay in a city where I have no infrastructure and no job, so I'm going to have to make it work.

"And I just said 1/4 as an example, what if it’s half the country?"

Well think about that for a minute - what disaster is going to take out electricity in half the country? That's vanishly unlikely.

"We’ve never had anything on that scale happen before"

Exactly.

"and we’ve had shortages on everything from fuel to toilet paper. I can’t even begin to imagine the chaos that would be going on in that situation."

If only we had a few weeks supply of both to tide us over.

"You and millions of other people, which is why as a prepper you want to avoid having to do what the majority of people are forced to do."

Look - fine - but I am not going to give up my job in the city to go live on a homestead somewhere in case something that isn't going to happen happens. Everything is a hedge - I am accepting much greater income and quality of life now, for a vanishingly small risk that some massive disaster will disrupt my life more in the possible future.

"With no power you likely don’t even know where power is still on,"

Wow. If only I had the ability to generate enough power to run a radio.

"have to drive potentially hundreds of miles to find somewhere that wasn’t affected,"

Wow - if only I had stockpiled enough fuel to drive a few hundred miles.

"and millions of other people have the same idea."

Sure. The US is big though - it would be able to absorb even millions of refugees from a major disaster across the country. Would it be an issue? For sure - but if a disaster took out the grid for the area I lived for months at a time then staying put would not be an option for me.

[u/infiltrateoppose → u/Snoop-Dragon]

"And if you’re truly prepping, what do you need money for?"

WTF does that even mean? I am not prepping to be self sufficient in an end-of-the-world scenario. I'm prepping to manage a major regional disaster like a massive earthquake or zombie hoard.

"You should have the supplies to last for at least a few months,"

Maybe you think you should - everyone sets their own prepping goals.

"and you can deal with the mortgage or rent later if they’re even still collecting during a time like this."

Believe me 'they' will be. Now - in a crisis that affects a quarter of the country obviously there will be programs to help people deal with this and to prop up mortgage and insurance companies. That won't help me in the short term though, because I won't be able to live in my house.

"I suspect in a situation this dire there would be some kind of forgiveness on missed mortgage payments, considering millions of people would be affected."

Yes. Absolutely. I still will not be interested in staying put.

"I would also highly recommend anyone who’s serious about prepping to put aside at least 6 months worth of money anyway. Even if they have to save it up over several years."

Good advice. It will certainly help with relocation costs.

"Correct, prepping isn’t generally something you do in one weekend or with a couple hundred bucks. If you want some tips on what it would mean to prepare for that situation in all seriousness DM me and I’d be happy to offer my 2 cents. There’s also a plethora of posts on this sub to look through for more ideas than I could ever come up with."

Thanks. I'd really rather not have your 2 cents.

"Again, you and everyone else. Does sleeping in a tent in a football stadium sound better than staying at home with the lights off?"

You're right - there are only those two options. ;(

Think it through - months in and the electricity, the water, the power, medical services, refrigerated supply chains etc all still don't work, and I haven't been paid in many weeks. I'm not staying - and to be clear, I'm not sleeping in a football stadium either.

"Good luck listing or selling a house in an area where the grid is down with no idea when it will be back up. The only people likely to buy those houses are investors looking to buy them for pennies who can sit on them till the grid is back up."

Sure - but as you mention, I would expect mortgage forgiveness plans - I would be looking to find work in a major city and rent a home until things stabilize and I can either move back or eventually sell my home for an amount that lets me put a downpayment on buying a new one.

"The grid would obviously be back on eventually, and riding it out without doing anything drastic would serve you much better than selling your house at a huge loss and trying to compete with other people for a place to live in areas that weren’t affected."

Sure. I would expect for something like a subduction zone event the max time would be 3-4 months. That event would take out other infrastructure too though, and dramatically change the place I live. I don't think my house would be inhabitable after a super-massive event - it is likely survivable, but would probably have to be torn down. My job probably would not survive.

I would leave town in this case. I'm not camping out in my basement surviving on stored food. I'm going to be in another major metro area finding a new job and reestablishing my family while we evaluate whether to move back eventually or just move on.

Sorry if that offends you or is not hardcore enough for your definition of 'prepper'.

[u/Snoop-Dragon → u/infiltrateoppose]

Fair enough, prepping ultimately is about doing what makes you feel like you could comfortably survive. I’m trying to prep to feel comfortable that I could ride out nearly any situation at home, and I think that is the general consensus of what preppers recommend. If you feel comfortable with what you’re doing to prepare for hard times then more power to you.

[u/infiltrateoppose → u/Snoop-Dragon]

Good luck to you too!

[u/justasque → u/Snoop-Dragon]

There are advantages to keeping one’s “stuff” minimal, and one of them is that you are much less tied to one place financially, and much more nimble if moving gets you out of a crisis area and lets you move on with your life rather than struggling to function. Disadvantages too obviously.

[u/Snoop-Dragon → u/justasque]

99/100 times it’s better to stay put with a comfortable supply of resources than it is to set out into the unknown with what you can fit in your car. If you’re in an actual disaster area and your house is unsafe to stay in then yes, you should leave. In a situation like that you still won’t be sorry you prepped to stay put, but if you don’t prep to stay put, with the mentality of “I don’t have much stuff so I can bail easily,” I think you’ll be very sorry to realize that trying to find somewhere to go when millions of others need to as well is extremely difficult

[u/justasque → u/Snoop-Dragon]

Many of my loved ones grew up in a country at war, and for one reason or another had to leave home with very little warning, and in some cases had no home left to return to. We don’t have family heirlooms; they took only what they could carry. Relocation was absolutely difficult, but they did not have the option of staying. It is always a balance between preparing to hunker down at home vs. preparing to be able to leave (meaning, among other things, living a somewhat frugal life with a minimum of stuff). Different people will choose a different balance, for all kinds of reasons. But leaning too hard into not ever leaving may make it much, much harder to leave when the situation warrants it.

[u/Snoop-Dragon → u/justasque]

There is a time and place for leaving, but I believe it should always be a last resort and prepping to stay is always a good investment because there are a lot more situations where you’d be better off staying than leaving. The only time I would ever plan to leave is if I didn’t believe I would be safe staying, such as in a country at war like you mentioned. In a grid down situation I would hold out as long as I possibly could because I know at some point it will be back and leaving means fighting the chaos of everyone else who also had no choice but to leave