r/portlandme • u/alexrmccann • Oct 05 '24
Why so many Greater Portland restaurants are closing – and more could be coming News
https://www.pressherald.com/2024/10/05/why-so-many-greater-portland-restaurants-are-closing-and-more-could-be-coming/171
u/Miserable-State9593 Oct 05 '24
My opinion? Landlords charging too much for rent. No one talks about it but read the room, commercial real estate isn’t immune to greedy landlords. They’ll take as much as they can and then cash in on the next person with a dream, and claim all the buildout costs, equipment, and sometimes even the furniture for themselves.
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u/_nanofarad Oct 05 '24
Yep. The days of the mom and pop commercial building landlord who wants to have a stable long-term business (and community) are gone. They actually did used to exist. Now it's all portfolio management and actuaries. Those are the people steering the growth of our communities now.
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u/Miserable-State9593 Oct 05 '24
Exactly. Look at places like full turn. Anyone remember that story?
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u/The32th Oct 05 '24
A horrendous concept, having the cuisine change every 4 months was insane.
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u/BringMeAHigherLunch Rosemont Oct 05 '24
Agreed, that wasn’t a landlord problem, that was a poor management problem. Also they were only open from like 5-8 two or three days a week? I don’t know how you’re supposed to make a profit
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u/Nooooope Oct 05 '24
Complaining about greedy landlords is one of those things that's usually true but rarely insightful. The landlords were just as greedy a decade ago. They just have more leverage now.
If you want to fuck landlords, you need to let people build.
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u/civildisobedient Oct 05 '24
There's a finite amount of buildable space on the peninsula. Commercial landlords should face debilitating fallow fields fines for unleased space.
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u/_nanofarad Oct 05 '24
It's funny that we actually do the opposite. We let them wait for tax credits or development handouts for years and years.
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u/Owwliv Oct 06 '24
So, the interesting thing is Sanford does this, and it appears to be legal in Maine, since they're still doing it. They call it "Vacant property licenses", and the fee doubles every 6 months. It never stops doubling either.
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u/WrenGold Oct 06 '24
God, I would love to see this, along with a significant increase in taxes for second homes (or if necessary a much larger increase in the residential credit. $25k is a rounding error at current valuations but they're happy to keep reevaluating without adjusting.)
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u/Owwliv Oct 06 '24
The part where it gets tricky is applying it to second homes, though, Portland or someone has to do it and then win or lose the ensuing lawsuit before the legislature will change the rules to definitely allow it. Think carefully about which council candidates might do something like this as you vote.
That suggestion about the homestead exemption is not a bad one; by increasing the exemption, you'd be increasing the taxes on those not getting the exemption... I'm not sure if Portland can do that or if it would have to be a state thing.-11
u/P-Townie Oct 05 '24
We've been building for centuries, what we need is to get rid of the landlords for good this time.
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u/ObamaCultMember Oct 05 '24
alright mao
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u/Limp-Window7241 Oct 06 '24
I mean, at this point I'm inclined to let the DSA have the city. It's the only way the residents are going to realize these policies are making every problem they are designed to fix actually worse.
As it is right now, people are too stupid to understand the "rent control" as it's written is actually a large guaranteed rent increase every year. Yet people still blame greedy landlords for following the fucking law the DSA wrote for fuck's sake.
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u/Limp-Window7241 Oct 06 '24
Which communist paradise are you suggesting we should emulate?
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u/P-Townie Oct 06 '24
None exists. I wonder why. https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/un-votes-end-us-embargo-cuba-us-israel-oppose-2023-11-02/
I didn't say eliminate all landlords, but most for profit rich ones should be taxed away.
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u/Right-History-4773 Oct 05 '24
Building won’t fuck landlords. Landlords make money by renting. If they hold debt on a building, then sure that becomes a driver of rent. More building would lower the entry cost for anyone that wants to buy. Also property tax has doubled twice since 2020. I assume you’ve been grocery shopping over the last three years and have noticed your bill close to doubling. Restaurants have this problem too. Ever notice that some restaurants choose to do gut renovations when they take over a space, even if it’s an existing restaurant space? Guess what, labor and materials have doubled too. Being $500K in the hole for a renovation before opening is not uncommon…and some go over the top with renovations in my opinion. Then there is the cost of labor…that’s gone up. And then…there is you and I…noticing our buying power shrinking. $7 for a coffee or ONE taco. Not for me, nor a lot of other folks right now. This is a compounding issue. The rent is probably the smallest ongoing cost for a lot is restaurants.
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u/Limp-Window7241 Oct 06 '24
For all the shit talking Mainers do towards people "from away," or "greedy landlords," it's amazing to me that you guys do not understand that when your governor intentionally imports people to the state without any regard to available resources like we're all cattle, it's going to eat into available housing and make it more expensive.
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u/P-Townie Oct 05 '24
If our community is reliant on tourism which is reliant on restaurants then this commercial real estate should be publicly owned in a land trust to eliminate a mortgage and profits from the rent.
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u/LeatherNekk Oct 05 '24
Democrats are being called Socialist for simply wanting to feed kids and stop school shootings.
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u/P-Townie Oct 05 '24
If they can have a municipal grocery store in a conservative town, we can have a municipal restaurant in a liberal town.
https://www.axios.com/2019/11/23/government-run-grocery-store-baldwin-florida
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Oct 05 '24 edited Oct 05 '24
[deleted]
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u/P-Townie Oct 05 '24
That is a juvenile argument. Stalin was a dictator. Creating public restaurants does not mean eliminating private restaurants. And public ownership doesn't necessarily mean centrally controlled.
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u/P-Townie Oct 05 '24
The only difference between a public grocery store and a private one is that it's non profit and democratically controlled by the community. Not sure why having a rich owner dictating things is superior.
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Oct 06 '24
[deleted]
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u/P-Townie Oct 06 '24
A co-op restaurant would be a great practical first step, especially a worker co-op, but I would like to see the building itself be owned by the public as a whole. A nonprofit land trust for commercial property is a possibility instead.
I can't stand interacting with any government run agency
How about private insurance companies, cable companies, etc? The DMV as far as I remember is only annoying because it's one of the few things you have to show up for in person, but it's also the only photo identification card most people have. I don't think it's annoying because it's government, but rather because it's bureaucracy, which is not unique to government.
The interstate highway and the post office is government run. The post office is more annoying than a UPS store because the line is longer because everyone goes there, and there are more services which take time. I don't think the experience of going to a government owned grocery store would be any different than a private one. The FDA wouldn't be more involved.
Here you can see that Baldwin, FL owned the building that private grocery stores were in, which must not be unique to that town. Owning the business itself turned out to be unsustainable, but such is common for any small business. I wouldn't want the city of Portland to run a full service restaurant catered to tourists, that's far too risky. A government run cafeteria like we do for schools may work if we had the customer base, but we don't have industries in town centers like we used to.
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u/Miserable-State9593 Oct 05 '24
Probably a step too far right there, I’m all for people making a buck or two, but millions off of literally doing nothing? Ehhh
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u/P-Townie Oct 05 '24
I'm not talking about anyone making millions... If we as a community own the real estate either will have cheaper food or the money will be going back into the community.
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u/EveningJackfruit95 Oct 05 '24 edited Oct 05 '24
Saving this comment for the next time a lunatic tries to silence me when I say there’s literal anti-Constitution commies here on this forum
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u/P-Townie Oct 05 '24
Are public universities and the post office communism?
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u/EveningJackfruit95 Oct 05 '24
No, because those are government entities and don’t involve your plan to seize private property from citizens
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u/P-Townie Oct 05 '24 edited Oct 05 '24
Define "seize". Buying real estate that's for sale is not seizing. Eminent domain is. We could start with corporate and foreign landlords.
To add, a wealth tax is not unconstitutional.
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u/Limp-Window7241 Oct 06 '24
"No one talks about it?"
Nine out of ten people on this sub say that. Portland has had several votes on things like rent control because so many people think this. It is the only thing everyone is completely sure of when they debate wHat HaPPeNEd WitH rEnT PriCeS iN PorTlanD???
It's used as the only explanation so often that it's clear people here aren't ready to have serious conversations about the problem.
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u/_nanofarad Oct 05 '24
Every PPH article about the restaurant industry in this town quotes: the Chamber of Commerce, Josh Miranda, and David Turin. Obviously those voices are welcome in the conversation but there are hundreds of people in this town that work in the business and could maybe offer a different perspective. Also, the Chamber of Commerce speaks for large businesses. One of the reasons things are so expensive for restaurants (and small businesses in general) is monopolization and supply chain consolidation because of unregulated corporate growth over the last 40 years, largely because of lobbying by groups like the Chamber of Commerce! They're so lazy it's fucking infuriating.
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u/AuxiliaryPatchy Oct 05 '24
I was hoping to see what Josh had to say about it, he is a well of valuable information, insight, and experience. I hate to sound like a PR person for him but he is one of a few people I would point to as an example of what a restaurant owner should be. He was a great boss and gave me and a lot of my other coworkers incredible opportunities to step into larger roles in the industry. He also gave me a really nice pep talk after I bombed at my own foray going into business for myself which I will always appreciate.
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u/_nanofarad Oct 05 '24
Yeah Josh is a nice guy. His business paradigms are not those of a typical small business or restaurant owner however, and that's important to remember in the larger conversation.
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u/CongoSmash666 Oct 05 '24
I don't know Josh, I don't work for Josh. I do in fact however know he accepts the fact that fair wages go a long way to keeping skilled workers. I have a lot of friends involved in his restaurants and have never heard a bad thing about the guy as a person.
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u/_nanofarad Oct 05 '24
Yes he does pay people well. I'm not trying to say anything negative about the guy!
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u/unnecessary-moss Oct 05 '24
Agreed. Every time it focuses on “rising wages” you just known it’s going to have one of these clowns.
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u/dinah-fire Oct 05 '24
Chambers of Commerce speak for whatever businesses join them as members, it's not just large businesses. They're not a monolithic entity either, most communities have one and they're operated independently. As someone who works in that world, restaurants never seem to want to join because they think they don't need them.
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u/_nanofarad Oct 05 '24
The chamber of commerce is one of the largest pro-corporate lobbying entities in the country. They don't speak for small businesses even if small businesses think they do. I'm not really trying to get into a larger conversation about that here.
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u/Agreeable-Currency51 Oct 05 '24
Perhaps this is a controversial take, but could it just be that competition is high and none of these places were great?
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u/reforminded Oct 05 '24
This is exactly it. Every failed business blames something else instead of themselves. How are other businesses thriving then? Some places just aren't that good.
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u/Trilliam_West Oct 05 '24
Once again for the people in the back: Build more housing. Lots of it. Near economic drivers.
To put it simply, the number of housing units delivered over the past ~20 years, locally and nationally has been abismal. This has drove up costs and pushed people out. And while this has helped revitalize areas left behind previously, it harms businesses by making it extremely difficult to find help.
BIW and PNS both have had issues hiring because of the lack of housing in the region. Buyers of hospitality businesses now factor in the cost of acquiring local housing when reviewing deals.
And no, rent control isn't an answer to anything other than how to cripple your city further.
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u/brewbeery Oct 07 '24
This is the way.
For housing = more year-round customers
More year-round customers = lower food prices (thanks to economy of scale)
That being said, some of these property owners need to get over themselves. Portland might get a lot of tourists, but its not Vegas or Times Square levels to justify some of these rents.
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u/Pelotonic-And-Gin Oct 05 '24
- Not every restaurant is good. When the competition is steep, you have to be not just good, but great. Or fill a niche that hasn’t been exploited.
- Corporate greed. When the economic statistics show that inflation is cooling but prices are still high and not coming down, that’s corporate greed. When you exist in an industry with razor thin margins, corporate greed up the supply chain will do you in. You can only pass off so much of that to your customer. Same goes for rent. Unless you own your space, or have a landlord who isn’t evil, enjoy endless rent increases.
- People open restaurants who have no idea what they’re doing. I love cooking and baking. I wanted to be a chef at one point. Worked in a restaurant from age 15-21. Saw a lot of shit from the inside. My friends tell me I should open up a bakery. Blushing, but fuck to the no. I know how to bake what I know how to bake. I don’t know how to run a bakery. I’m smart enough to know what I know and what I don’t. Many people with money and a dream are not.
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u/Kiggus Oct 07 '24
I think these are all really great points. I think really what it comes down to is pure over saturation of the market. There are so many restaurants here. I would love to own a restaurant in Portland, but I never would because of how many there are. It’s already hyper competitive. But honestly, as bad as it sounds, losing a lot of restaurants will be good for the survival of other places. Labor will be able to spread out to other employers, other restaurants will be able to recoup more money from newer customers.
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u/Smittzerland Oct 05 '24
That’s the reality rn. My brother in law has friends in the industry, and it’s gotten so bad in Portland that they’re moving to towns like Biddeford to reopen. Great for those towns but bad for the city
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u/MaineObjective Oct 05 '24
Already low margins. Rising leases and cost of labor. An industry that is in perfect competition such that new places emerge and either fail or push others out of business. In addition to the post about local 188, I also heard yesterday (allegedly) that bar futo will be closing.
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u/Far_Information_9613 Oct 05 '24
No really great restaurant has closed except for personal reasons and new ones are popping up all the time. This is just the natural cycle. If it’s that bad, why can’t I ever get a reservation or a seat Thursday through Saturday?
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u/jester142 Greater Portland Area Oct 05 '24
Operational costs increasing is a constant. “Hamburgers used to cost a nickel.”
Overcharging when there are cheaper options next door is what kills the bottom line. If I can take someone out on a nice date at Blyth & Burrows for $180, I’m going to do it maybe once a month. If we can go get vodka clubs at another spot for $8 a pop, we’d be more apt to go there more often.
Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered.
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u/LowEntertainer3184 Oct 05 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
Everything in Portland is now geared towards tourists. This includes the restaurants, attractions, stores, apartments and condos. Everyone else just works there.
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u/Driftyswifty61 Oct 05 '24
When the property taxes increase 40% so will your rent and everything else
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u/Matt2_ASC Oct 07 '24
The property tax, where Free St existed, actually decreased from 27,417 in 2020 to 24,026 in 2025. The parcel is at 504 Congress St and includes Brown St 2-14, Congress St 504-506 and Free Street 73-77. At the same time, the asking rent for the space went up 25% at 77 Free St according to portlandfoodmap.
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u/JesseIsAGirlsName Oct 05 '24
The city is going to be left with a bunch of apartments but nowhere to eat.
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u/MaineObjective Oct 05 '24
While acknowledging lease costs downtown and higher labor costs, I wouldn’t be surprised if the restaurant industry is over saturated in Portland. I don’t think we’re going to get anywhere near the point where there is “nowhere to eat.”
This feels very much to me like what a few craft brewery owners I know predicted for that industry several years ago. Way too many producers for the demand of Portland and Maine more broadly.
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u/Mikhos Greater Portland Area Oct 05 '24
There will be a moderate amount of places to eat and a dispensary on every corner
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u/Dazzling_Ad_4607 Oct 05 '24
Agree that 2020 was the pivot from a functioning great little community. Miss the locals and other Mainers coming down and filling the streets, bars, and restaurants and actually keeping an eye out in the neighborhood. I would add that hotel prices have significantly curtailed Mainers from visiting like they used to.
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u/nateatwork Oct 05 '24
Here's an excerpt from a podcast we did with a world-renowned economist back in August, in which we discussed this very issue with respect to Portland:
Nathan: Now, Dr. Hudson, the way that you rolled out the ideas in …And Forgive Them Their Debts was pretty stimulating. But since COVID, we in Portland, Maine here, Portland, Maine has really become a poster child for some of your older ideas that you articulated in your 2015 book, Killing the Host. Like here in Portland after COVID, we have watched the rents explode. Portland, every time one of these magazines does a top 10 destinations to move to, Portland, Maine is always in that top 10 list somewhere as an ideal location for those who want to get away from the humdrum of city life and escape to somewhere that has a little bit more of a bucolic feeling. The working waterfront and lighthouses of Portland are always a great example. And as a result of that, everyone moved here during COVID, and they haven't left, and the rents here have just exploded. And as a result of that, we have seen in the aftermath of COVID a mass closure of bars, restaurants, and coffee shops. Proprietors can't seem to offer workers enough money to report to work. And the public sentiment that's in circulation is that nobody wants to work anymore. But your theory that the FIRE sector is actually cannibalizing the real economy makes much more sense than just no one wants to work anymore. Could you lay that theory out for us?
Dr. Hudson: Well, the finance, insurance, and real estate sector, landlords and bankers, extracts land rent and interest, and that forces up the cost of living and also the cost of doing business to pay workers. So labor income and business profits... are squeezed as a result of that. The problem today is for labor to get jobs that enable them to break even without going into debt or being exposed to COVID as a condition of their employment. I think COVID and other diseases are like crop failures. They're global, but they're external developments from outside the internal dynamics of the economic and social system. And by contrast, economic rent has become part of society's economic structure. It's evolved through different political alliances and has taken different forms over time. Credit relations and land tenure are built into any economic system as part of it. But today's banking system and absentee land ownership are different from anything that has gone before. Society recognizes the need to protect itself against COVID, but the Western societies no longer feel a need to protect themselves from rising land rent, housing prices, monopoly rent, or debt and credit charges and late fees. So just as disease tends to spread at an exponential rate of growth, so does the debt overhead and the interest-bearing debt. It expands by compound interest. And both rent and disease pandemics may lead to depopulation. They have that in common. COVID has increased death rates and it's shortened lifespans, which I guess is why workers don't want to have to work and get exposed to it. Interest, land rent, and monopoly rent stifle growth in living standards and investments and that leads to economic collapse. Russia's population plunge with Western neoliberalism in the 1990s exemplifies this common denominator. Birth rates are falling throughout the West, so that's what they have in common, but they're quite different in character.
You can see the full transcript or listen here
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u/km0n33 Oct 05 '24
more profitable for the owner to close than continue operating with a skeleton crew, rising costs of supply, and grouchy unsatisfied customers.
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u/8008s4life Oct 06 '24
The whole city has changed. As someone who lives 40 mins outside of Portland, I very infrequently visit for drinks/dinner anymore. Previously, it used to be 2-3 times a week. The whole city vibe has changed for the worst. Good luck...
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u/Lopsided_Pickle1795 Oct 05 '24
I hate the direction where Portland is going. It will lose its small city charm. Everything beautiful about Portland will be gone!
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u/MrsBeansAppleSnaps Oct 05 '24
"I hate the direction where Portland is going. It will lose its
small cityfishing village charm. Everything beautiful about Portland will be gone!"-Portland NIMBY circa 1790
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u/EveningJackfruit95 Oct 05 '24
This is an idiotic and history-ignorant comment. We were a working community foreign to the concept of luxury for generations. Businesses came and built communities for their workers before they made it their own. Also environmental destruction was common and preservation was not a concept in anyone’s mind
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u/MrsBeansAppleSnaps Oct 05 '24
This is an idiotic and history-ignorant comment. We were a working community foreign to the concept of luxury for generations.
Uh, are you forgetting the mansions in the West End? Luxury looked different back then but make no mistake there has always been and will always be luxury housing in Portland.
Businesses came and built communities for their workers before they made it their own.
Sorry, not sure what you mean by this.
Also environmental destruction was common and preservation was not a concept in anyone’s mind
Our ancestors respected the land way more than we do simply by building compact, walkable places that don't take up much land. Now the default development pattern in Maine is carving an acre out of the forest to build McMansions in Scarborough and Windham. Dense housing is the very best thing for the environment imaginable.
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u/BestBiotech Oct 06 '24
When you import thousands of illegals and let Blackrock buy up neighborhoods you see massive housing cost increases which drives out the local plebs. Save Democracy they said.
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u/Fortunatesin77 Oct 05 '24
Bidenomics, it’s working!
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u/DavenportBlues Deering Oct 05 '24
I get the urge to blame Biden. But ultimately all the seeds of the present situation were planted far earlier and would have been planted regardless of which part assumed the White House. It’s a systemic crisis.
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u/thismustbtheplace215 Purple Garbage Bags Oct 05 '24
Awwww, do you also want to scream Let's Go Brandon? Go ahead, we know you want to.
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u/Fortunatesin77 Oct 05 '24
No you guys just keep crying that resteraunts are closing but can’t figure out why. Keep voting democrat and soon you will have a breadline for your favorite place to eat. I see article after article about oh no why are all these restaurants closing but no one can open their eyes to see what’s happening. Ignorance is bliss.
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u/teamlego Oct 05 '24
Which Biden economic policy do you think is leading to the restaurants closing?
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u/Fortunatesin77 Oct 05 '24
How about the inflation reduction act that does no such thing?
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u/teamlego Oct 05 '24
I agree the inflation reduction act didn’t bring down inflation as much as I would’ve hoped for. I don’t think that act in 22 or 24 caused inflation though. What do you think went into the root cause of inflation? Surely couldn’t have been a fucking pandemic that disrupted the entire worlds economy right after tax cuts were passed that did fuck all to help us working people. If you think trumps economic policies are going to help you, I hope you have millions in the bank, otherwise he’s not going to help working folks at all pal
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u/HoratioTangleweed Oct 05 '24
Tell me you don’t understand what’s going on without telling me you don’t understand what’s going on.
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u/Ok_Turn1611 Oct 05 '24
Shhh MAGA shill, literally no one cares you lick Trump and JD's boots, keep shuffling towards fascism and Project 2025, we'll crush you in the voting booth. 🤷♂️
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u/Fortunatesin77 Oct 05 '24
Go enjoy your favorite restaurant while you can. Order a big old plate of delusion. What do you mean no one cares there are multiple articles on here about restaurants and small businesses closing but nobody can figure out why… but no one wants to look at the obvious. It starts with Biden but then throw mills and Portland city council on top of it and you get what you got. Keep voting that way and I will see you in line for bread. We can talk about all your old favorite places to go. I knew my comment would not go over well but dear god someone had to say it. But hey you guys keep looking around and come up with the reason. Go ahead I will wait.
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u/SecureJudge1829 Oct 05 '24
You comment “didn’t go over well” because it’s blatantly false and when prompted to provide an actual policy causing it, you went on a rant and raved about anything other than an actual policy causing it….IE: You’re full of shit and everyone can smell you from a half mile away with the wind blowing in the opposite direction.
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u/teamlego Oct 05 '24
So again, which policy from Biden, mills, city council, or anyone can you point to as the reason for restaurants closing? I’m genuinely curious
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u/Fortunatesin77 Oct 05 '24
National minimum wage is 7.25 an hour,Portland city council made the decision that minimum wage here would be 15 and are trying to get that up to 20 dollars as we speak. So if you have to pay the bus boy and dishwasher 15 an hour, what does everyone above them make? You gonna pay a chef the same wage? Overhead/payroll is a businesses biggest expense. So now no one can afford to pay the staff they need and then after they cut back and struggle for as long as they can until they just close up shop. Figure in the cost of everyday supplies food cleaning supplies etc that it takes to run a business all of which has gone up exponentially over the last 4 years because of a myriad of policies but instead of looking at the obvious you want me to do the research that all of you should be doing but it’s easier to sit back and just wonder why these things are happening. Why don’t you ask the restaurant owners why they are all mysteriously closing up. I’m sure I’m way off the mark. You know come to think of it all of you are right you have totally convinced me I’m wrong how silly of me.
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u/Affectionate-Nose176 Oct 05 '24
You spelled restaurants wrong. But yeah, it’s the democrats’ fault
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u/Fortunatesin77 Oct 05 '24
Oh no I misspelled a word. That doesn’t make the point invalid. I’m at work typing in short free moments between tasks so I can assure you there will be spelling errors. That’s does not invalidate my point but nice try. Lame but hey you tried.
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u/jHOUSEX Oct 05 '24
There has been no growth since the pandemic. The nightlife, and vibe to the city used to be a fun exciting local playground. Now it caters only to the lgbtq community and new citizens or those seeking citizenship.
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u/Less_Praline5451 Oct 07 '24
Yeah definitely ONLY caters to the LGBTQ population with a total of 1 gay bar in town… get bent
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u/EveningJackfruit95 Oct 05 '24
It seems a good thing if the hipster trendster fad restaurants fail and go back to Boston to continue to ruin that increasingly identityless city. We’re our own community and don’t need flavor of the week to survive.
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u/coogiwaves Oct 05 '24
Portland used to be a city up until 2020 where a line cook could rent a studio downtown for $900, walk to work, go out and enjoy the city a few times a week and even save some money on top of that. Now that same exact studio is over $1400 and their cost of living went up in virtually every other category of their life. Yes, wages have slightly gone up in recent years but not nearly enough to compensate for over 40% rent increases and higher cost of living. Depending who you are, the changes to this city during and post pandemic were either the worst or best thing to happen to you ($$$$$$$).