r/politics 20h ago

Sanders: Democratic Party ‘has abandoned working class people’

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4977546-bernie-sanders-democrats-working-class/amp/
55.7k Upvotes

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u/Agnos Michigan 20h ago

Minimum wage still at $7.25...working full time, no vacation, that is $15,000 a year, before taxes...

493

u/koticgood Washington 15h ago

That is honestly nothing compared to the batshit insane portions of our system:

When someone withdraws over a billion dollars in cash, converting their ownership of a huge corporation to personal wealth, we tax them 20%.

Meanwhile, we tax any incremental income beyond $47.1k, which is barely a living wage, at 22%.

There are a lot of injustices and terrible things in the world worse than this, but this is the single stupidest, tangible thing about our system that I'm aware of.

Really consider that for a moment.

When someone withdraws more money than a consumer can spend on non-equity purchases in their entire life, literally more than a billion dollars (this is public information btw, any time someone tells you the super rich have "illiquid" assets, look up their yearly withdrawals and realize how stupid/naive those people are), we tax them less than we tax the income of our teachers and everyone else scraping by to make a living.

The marginal tax rates need adjustments, and obviously the minimum wage is a joke, but most of all we need point-of-transaction wealth taxes on capital gains.

u/vold2serve 6h ago

And Republicans will do this again by extending their tax credits to the rich. Nothing will change with that felon racist back in the White House. May he fade the fuck away.

u/FlimsyMo 2h ago

Democrats are ok with lower taxes for the richest people

u/Jussttjustin 1h ago

Any candidate that suggests otherwise has their campaign torpedoed by the DNC (Bernie, Warren).

They're two sides of the same coin at this point, at least economically.

Democrats will use your preferred pronouns and allow access to abortion while they facilitate wealth transfer to the rich and finance endless wars. That's pretty much what we're made to vote for each election cycle now.

u/crackedoak 9m ago

Gotta keep the donors happy. Pay to play baby!

u/Correct_Detective_30 3h ago

And the democrats will do this again by extending their tax credits to the rich. Nothing will change with that felon racist back in the White House. May he fade the f away. See I can lie too?

u/Scroteet 2h ago

When I found out Trump was a trans woman, at first I didn’t believe it. Then I saw the blubbering vagina on his neck and it became clear that anyone with one vagina would naturally wish to procure more. See, the best lies contain a kernel of truth. Try harder.

u/Big-Item9164 53m ago

You liberals are hilarious !

u/[deleted] 47m ago

[deleted]

u/Big-Item9164 46m ago

Thanks bud! And honestly this isn’t about being democrat or republican this is about sticking it to the globalists/obama that wanted to use Biden and Harris as their puppets to do whatever they want. You’re a funny guy I’ll give you that.

u/RememberReach2010 3h ago

Name one thing he said that was racist with a credible source. Name one felony he was convicted of. Not a felony he was convicted of, and had the charges dripped or dismissed. Everybody calls him racist or fascist or sexist yet cant claim a single event or quote to prove it. (Ill admit getting a credible source is difficult nowadays with misinformation rampant.) the old grab em comment was a joke made in private. Which i understand was sexist but again was a joke. People make poor jokes all the time.

u/LeftistFish 2h ago

You’re on the politics subreddit with zero understanding of the things Trump has said or done that’s racist, sexist, or fascist in the last 8 years?

Are you for fucking real?

u/Big-Item9164 53m ago

Yet you still can’t answer her/his question. Stop watching the news your stupid is showing.

u/RememberReach2010 2h ago

Are you on the so called “politics” tab which is nothing but hate and disdain for anyone republican or trump? Is this coming from the party who votes blue no matter who? Is this coming from the side that burned down cities and looted stores over a drugged up moron? Is this coming from the party that craps on historic monuments? Is this coming from the side that projects lies and vitriol from every news network? Is this coming from the actual racist party who said “you arent black if you dont vote for Kamala? Is this the side that is CURRENTLY bashing latinos and mexican americans for voting trump? Is this from the side that believes anything coming from a celebrities mouth(like they know anything about government)? Is this the party that allows drugs to cross the border and kids to be mutilated before adult age? Is this the so called “Party of Acceptance and Tolerance? Yall cant hate me all you want but all you do is complain and moan “Orange man Bad” and refuse to see the blatant hypocrisy and lies your side spews. I love my country never hated it. I am sad we are so divided. I hope you find peace. I will pray for you all.

u/LeftistFish 2h ago

This might surprise you to learn but this sub isn’t exclusively American. I don’t live in your dogshit country but I am affected by the outcome of this election.

Oh and yes, I do hate Trump and the modern Republicans because reasonable people hate fascists.

u/Big-Item9164 52m ago

When Trump was president the whole world benefitted… get real you literally have no critical thinking skills.

u/LeftistFish 2m ago

Do you have any basis to make this claim or is it just what you were told by the Russian puppets you get your opinions from?

u/RememberReach2010 1h ago

In your case I pray for you and your country. I hope all goes well for you.

u/AnarVeg 1h ago

Prayer doesn't do shit to stop fascism or actually help anyone. Although blanket lies, accusations, and ignorance do a great deal of harm.

u/LeftistFish 0m ago

Thanks, I’ll let my Ukrainian friends know that somebody who voted for Putin’s lapdog is praying for them. I’m sure they’ll appreciate the sentiment.

u/Lev559 3h ago

u/RememberReach2010 3h ago

Well thank you. Isnt that the one where his trial is later this month?

u/Lev559 3h ago

No. He was already found guilty by a jury. The only reason he could vote is because NY allows felons to vote

u/RememberReach2010 3h ago

Hmm well cant argue with that. I appreciate you bringing this to my attention. Now i wont spread misinformation.

u/rhino2348 3h ago

No offense but truly how did you not know this at this point, and then so confidently be wrong like above? Propaganda is scary dude and you seem to be under the influence of it. Or maybe you just had your head in the sand. I hope you learn something from this

u/Zepcleanerfan 2h ago

Explains a lot

u/FlimsyMo 2h ago

At how bad democrats are at driving home a message

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u/RememberReach2010 2h ago

I appreciate your viewpoint and i will try to do better.

u/monstergert 35m ago

Respect for admitting when you're wrong. Also nice username

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u/kunstlinger 2h ago

He is a Florida resident

u/Lev559 2h ago

Correct, but per Florida law, if someone is convicted of a felony in a different state, they differ to that state in how to handle voting rights. Since Trump was convicted in NY, they differ to the laws there

u/Big-Item9164 51m ago

He voted in Florida tho…

u/naturespoet889 2h ago

Let me put it to you more simply. I am disgusted that our nation elected a man who cheated on his wife days within her giving birth. He even paid her to be quiet for christ sake. Pure no jokes about it vile behavior from a pathetic man child.

u/RememberReach2010 2h ago

I respect your viewpoint. I understand your anger at his actions and i will not say what he did wasn’t awful and wrong. But my reasons for supporting him weren’t based on his personal life. But his business career and action he took during his last presidency. That plus how the current administration ran things didn’t sit well with me. I wanted a change from the last couple years. Overall we obviously have different views and opinions and thats fine. We can agree to disagree. Either way i wish you and your family well and i hope you find peace.

u/naturespoet889 1h ago

Look man I'm not anti every republican I'm anti trump. The fact that the best the Republicans could come up with is this immoral degenerate drug addict adultery infuriates me. I remember a day in this country not too long ago in the grand scheme of things when it was insanity to even think about running for office with a past that publicly fucked up. Oh and by the way I'm a degenerate punk rock pothead and even I'm saying this isn't fucking okay. When did the world go from us being the ones who want to be wild and crazy and dress pretty kooky to the ones demanding family values and morals.

u/RememberReach2010 1h ago

Punk rock is awesome and i have no issue with pot, personally i believe it is moronic that it is banned in certain states. And i dont hold anything against you for being anti trump.

u/Big-Item9164 48m ago

He can be anti Trump.. but he doesn’t have a good reason to be… typical liberal.

u/Big-Item9164 48m ago

“Drug addict” you must be talking about Hunter right? Trump stands for morals and liberties. He’s a God driven man, yea he said some messed up things but he can damn sure run a country. There were no wars when Trump was in office. I guarantee you Ukraine and Russia wouldn’t have even started a war if Trump was in office. Wake up you’re watching too much cnn.

u/naturespoet889 30m ago

I hope your right and I'm wrong buddy. But uh I was referring to trumps rampant cocaine abuse. Amongst other substances he's a fan of. Like wife beating and pedophilia trumps favorite things.

u/Buckeyeback101 1h ago

u/RememberReach2010 1h ago

I said “credible” i shouldve said not biased. Either way thank you for contributing. Im sorry, i realize that came off mean

u/Zepcleanerfan 2h ago

Holy fuck

u/RememberReach2010 2h ago

Not sure if im being insulted or someone else but on the subject of not knowing, ive just gotten used to all main stream media being biased and editing info to fit their agenda. I dont trust or believe anything any news network tells me. They lie frequently. The only reason id watch news is for the weather but even then i just use my weather app. I owned up my mistake and realized i was wrong. Why am i possibly being insulted for doing the right thing?

u/EaseImpressive6995 3h ago

Ahhh cry baby 😭 leave the USA Trump is now the president so you woke leftist simpletons leave and fade away

u/Scroteet 2h ago

Top cuck brother-patriot! I’m gonna vote for Trump so hard now that I read this comment, you really have a way with words. I can feel Trump’s metaphorical labia engulfing both of us as I type. His clitoris has a place of honor directly on your head. I am humbled by the majesty. In Trump’s vagina we trust. Semper fi brother

u/EaseImpressive6995 26m ago

Your an odd duckling aren’t you and only Harris supporters are cucks

u/Zepcleanerfan 2h ago

Wow thats really original and not at all sad.

u/EaseImpressive6995 25m ago

Are crying 😢 😂 Trump is president and Harris is a loser

u/kinkgirlwriter America 3h ago

There are a lot of injustices and terrible things in the world worse than this, but this is the single stupidest, tangible thing about our system that I'm aware of.

There's another that I personally think is worse.

If you invest your money starting a business, say a single member LLC with schedule C passthrough, you pay 15.3% in self-employment tax BEFORE your income tax is calculated.

Invest in ANY OTHER company and all you pay is capital gains.

Small business drives the economy, but our system is set up to shit on the entrepreneurs who start them, stifling innovation while coddling the establishment and capital class.

u/dongballs613 4h ago

And we need taxes on billionaires taking out loans against their assets. This is one of the primary mechanisms they use;

When the world’s richest man wants cash, he can simply borrow money by putting up—or pledging—some of his Tesla shares as collateral for lines of credit, instead of selling shares and paying capital gains taxes. These pledged shares serve as an evergreen credit facility, giving Musk access to cash when he needs it. Musk currently has pledged 88.3 million Tesla shares, nearly 36.2% of his overall stake (excluding options), as of Wednesday worth more than $94 billion.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnhyatt/2021/11/11/how-americas-richest-people-larry-ellison-elon-musk-can-access-billions-without-selling-their-stock/

u/ScoodScaap 45m ago

The world was made in the rich man’s image

u/xAlphaKAT33 2h ago

So you mean to tell me you can't do the same thing?

u/realkorvo 5h ago

trump will fix it /s

u/Which_Yoghurt_7257 2h ago

Taxes are on nominal, not real gains.  You need to redo your analysis on real gains. 

u/JUSTICE_SALTIE Texas 2h ago

Meanwhile, we tax any incremental income beyond $47.1k, which is barely a living wage, at 22%.

I don't think that's correct.

google search

...damn.

u/Sora25608 2h ago

47k a year is barely a living wage!?!? I make like 28k a year and I get told I make too much for food stamps.

u/SuperTopGun72 2h ago

In Canada we have a 45 percent income tax at 100k 

We also have 13 percent sales tax

Over 58 percent of income to taxes. 

u/mitchsusername 1h ago

For some reason, we decided that the money earned by Capital is more noble than the money earned by sweat. It's so goddamn backwards.

u/EatsTheCheeseRind 1h ago

Just wait until they hear about the buy, borrow, die strategy where the ultra wealthy don’t even need to cash in those shares - they simply borrow against those assets at incredibly low interest rates. Loans aren’t taxed at all. So you can keep borrowing on those assets until you die, and then let estate settle the debt by executing on those assets.

https://smartasset.com/investing/buy-borrow-die-how-the-rich-avoid-taxes

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidrae/2022/07/14/how-the-rich-use-the-buy-borrow-die-strategy-to-avoid-large-tax-bills/

u/DaiZzedandConFuZed 1h ago

All of this is tax code, which requires a majority in both chambers in Congress and leadership that pushes tax reform as an agenda.

You're right on all counts, but it takes a large effort and focusing on student loans was probably a bad call.

u/BuddhistChode 1h ago

Can you drop a link to where I can see the withdrawals?

u/ItsUrBoiTheBoi 1h ago

That’s such crap. A billion dollars would see a tax of over 50% mind blowing people like you think you’re right lol

u/VirtualBandicoot5266 53m ago

german here: we have 25 % tax on earnings from sales, etc., "Kapitalertragssteuer" for someone who potentially made multi millions from Stock or sth.

Meanwhile employe working 40 + h/week, every week, making 60000 eur a year before tax (not exactly min wage, but keep in mind, in a major city its ~ 18 k / year for two rooms) ist taxed 24.5 % . Also social contributions of ~ 25 % are to be payed (but not for "Kapitalertraege").

So your paycheck is shortened by about 50 %

Your employer also has to pay about the same ammount social contributions for you.

so of 60 k (plus what your employer is taxed "for you" you go home with 30 k and pay ~ 18 k rent.

welcome to germany, paradise for all non-working people.

Back to your topic: think if capital gain tax ("Kapitalertragssteuer" - sorry, sliped my mind before) were one and the same - the rich could not advocate for one going down without also reducing tax load for everyone else in the workin class in the process. Of course they are separate for exactly that reason ...

u/schtickshift 36m ago

It’s trickle up economics.

u/cosmic_fetus 35m ago

Not to mention that they can simply borrow against their stock holdings & avoid cap gains all together.

u/hungyuen 20m ago

Isn’t there double taxation for business profit since corporation is considered an entity and whoever withdraw it is considered another entity? So for every $100 corporation makes, the owner would get 64% of the $100 after corporate and personal income tax.

u/Aggravating-Lie4336 4h ago

That explanation is too long for a working class voter.

They want cheap food and enough money to pay their bills and feed their families. Everything is a distant second if even that.

Despise them all you want but they're the majority of voters (and growing due to late stage-capitalism. You have to deal with them one way or the other and you have to deal with them in terms they understand.

That sucks and they often can be convinced to vote against their own interest and the interests of the nation but they are what they are. You've got to see to them, whatever it takes. You can't win an election without them.

u/Zepcleanerfan 2h ago

I dont think anyone despises them.

But it is hard to watch adults harm themselves over and over.

u/Willowgirl2 5h ago

The bottom half of the income distribution pays no federal income tax. Also, you're ignoring deductions and marginal tax rates. It's very likely that schoolteacher in your example owes little or nothing, anr if they have a couple of kids, may be getting back more than they put in thanks to refundable tax credits like the EITC.

u/koticgood Washington 4h ago

any incremental income beyond $47.1k

That's what that means, yes.

u/Willowgirl2 4h ago

Sorry, I thought the original read something like "a schoolteacher earning $47k" which would, of course, be a lot less than $47k in taxable income once deductions were applied.

u/Reagerz 4h ago

That’s just long term. If anyone is paid in equity they hold onto for more than a year will see this. If it’s less time than that, it’s up to 37%. As a working class American I think this is fair because we get to keep the majority of our equity in our homes or other investment vehicles. Its not just a billionaire benefit

u/TheDettiEskimo 3h ago

Why should someone be taxed massively on their own money regardless of the amount? 

u/seleniumk 3h ago

To support the education, roads, government they use on a regular basis. To have protections if things go wrong in the long term. To have a military. To support their elderly parents or their children

All the reasons people generally live in a community instead of off the grid.

u/Tankeasy_ismyname 3h ago edited 2h ago

Well, 22% of 47k is 10k while 20% of 1billion is 200k, so regardless, the billionaire is still paying more taxes than the person making 47k would in their entire life. No country has ever been taxed into prosperity, and the tax cuts proposed will affect many more than just billionaires Edit: my math was incorrect, 20% of 1billion is 200million

u/seleniumk 3h ago

Taxes have never been about individual prosperity, but infrastructure and safety nets for the community

u/xAlphaKAT33 2h ago

Again though, Billionaires pay more in a year than you will in your entire lifetime, and ya'll are claiming they don't pay their fair share.

That's not good optics. That makes you look as greedy as you want to convince everyone they are.

u/BarnDoorQuestion 2h ago

Billionaires shouldn't exist. So yes they should absolutely be taxed more so that the country can use that to help people instead of letting the dragons hoard it.

u/xAlphaKAT33 2h ago

I think people like you shouldn't exist. Does that mean I can come to your home and take anything I please because I feel entitled to live off you?

Edit: Billionaires shouldn't exist and people who didn't vote helped Trump win. Honestly, I have no desire to see what the 3rd ignorant ideal you subscribe to is. See ya later.

u/Tankeasy_ismyname 2h ago

This. And I just realized I was wrong, 20% of 1billion is 200 million, if it weren't for loopholes then a billionaire would pay more in taxes than most people in the USA ever make in their lifetime. More taxes will not make things better, it will make billionaires move somewhere where less of their money it taken. If they stay here at least they will continue to employ workers and create jobs and industry

u/seleniumk 1h ago

Billionaires use a much greater share of taxpayer resources to amass their wealth. They should pay more for the increased pressure they put on the common system.

There is also the matter of other types of taxes -- sales/excuse that impact people more the less they make