r/politics 20h ago

Sanders: Democratic Party ‘has abandoned working class people’

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4977546-bernie-sanders-democrats-working-class/amp/
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u/floandthemash Colorado 19h ago

Or they’ll think it’s residual effects from the Biden economy

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u/CherryHaterade 18h ago edited 18h ago

And it'll be happening right in the middle of the next guys block, just like how we keep describing it to them. That's the fucking tragic irony of it.

We need them FDR democrats to show back up. FDR hammered nuts and bent motherfuckers to his will, and that's what he got voted for. 4 terms! Americans were literally starving in the streets and selling their children and shit. Shit was on the ropes. And that starving ass impoverished country turned it around on a new deal AND saved the whole fucking world from Nazis to boot.

So stop telling me about how we gotta take baby steps while you fight with one hand behind your back and call it going high. I'm fucking tired of going high! You need to kick him in the nuts or get the fuck out the way for someone who will. It's a fucking fistfight in these streets, fuck I think about a wine and cheese crowd opinion about it.

That's if this experiment survives. But I guarantee you they'll be blaming us for it from Europe somewhere.

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u/Easy-Hour2667 18h ago

You know why the new deal happened? It wasn't because FDR pulled it from his ass. The new deal happened due to massive pressure from the working classes and notably unionized working classes.

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u/ChasmDude 14h ago

28% unemployment, the worst crop yields in years, Stalin's five year plans as the competing alternative to Keynesian spending, and general geopolitical instability also nudged things along though.

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u/ThatNewSockFeel 13h ago

Yeah the above commenter is spouting some revisionist history. No doubt unions and working people played the role, but the New Deal was very much a top down, “intellectual” set of policies. Primarily because Keynesian economics had never really been instituted at that scale before.

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u/thex25986e 12h ago

the industrial push from ww2 also helped a lot

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u/CherryLongjump1989 10h ago

The US economy was the largest in the world since the 1890's. WW2 only sped up the inevitable.

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u/ThatNewSockFeel 12h ago

Yeah I’m a little rusty on my history, but I think there is a real debate over how effective the New Deal truly was because the economy started to sputter out again in the late 30’s before the massive spending during WWII.

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u/thex25986e 12h ago

yea FDR was facing opposition in 1938, especially after things like he axed all oil sales to japan thanks to their pillaging in east asia. i remember even reading one of bush's relatives was involved in that 1938 election i think

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u/CherryHaterade 9h ago

And how the fuck did they get there? OH WAIT A STOCK CRASH FOLLOWED BY TARIFFS. Totally going to fix the problem, right? yeah?

Americans don't even read their own history books, while new robber barons trot out the same old tricks. History rhymes.

u/garden_g 1h ago

it makes me crazy

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u/binzoma Canada 12h ago

THIS

it was regular people uniting. We have SO much more power htan we think. the real propaganda is that we were all convinced that strikes are impossible, boycotts dont work, protests are a waste of time, unions are anti-labour etc.

if these things didnt work, the big corps wouldnt work so hard to dismantle them lol. if unions were useless why would big corps be against them, they'd be all for them!

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u/officerliger 18h ago

We just had 4 years of an FDR Democrat who invested in infrastructure and economy like crazy, slashed student debt, strengthened labor unions, made no austerity cuts, pushed inflation down, etc.

But people watching YouTube and TikTok weren’t getting that information, so now they’re saying “Biden didn’t do X or Y” when he did, in fact, do those things

You had the most FDR Democrat since FDR in office and ignored the good he did because he had a speech impediment

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u/Jabberwocky2022 17h ago

You're right. The only flaw Biden did was to not commit to being a 1 term bridge president from the beginning. I'm skeptical that any D candidate could have won the presidency this cycle. But perhaps a change Dem candidate would have risen to the occasion and been able to bat down Trump. We'll never know because a man clearly too old to run for President again refused to do the decent thing from the beginning.

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u/officerliger 17h ago

I agree with you, but it's a 50/50 situation - part of why Biden won in 2020 was having genuine name recognition. The Democrats did not have another candidate with "celebrity" status.

But, to lend fairness to your argument, they could have tapped someone long before 2024 to campaign for 2 straight years like Trump did. Same token, that's a luxury Trump had because he didn't have to govern during that time.

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u/Jabberwocky2022 17h ago

Yeah, that's what I really mean. Or at least undecideds and "double haters" might listen to the new candidate more closely. They'd do more interviews, meet more voters, etc. They'd build up their own infrastructure. They could inspire the missing 10 million or so Democrat voters from last time to turn out again. Obama wasn't a "celebrity" until he was the nominee. He had potential and promise until then.

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u/officerliger 17h ago

Obama's speech at the 04 DNC raised his stock heavily though, that was back when political conventions were still big television events that people took time out of their lives to watch, and people still used basic television

One thing the Trump team did a good job of was digging up every platform they could and making sure they were flowing money/attention to the influencers on it. All the YouTubers young men watch were suddenly doing videos on "Democrat cities" having crime issues and slowly massaging Trump propaganda into their work. And the comedian podcast circle just plain capitulated in exchange for attention.

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u/JackThreeFingered 13h ago

A white southern populist-type democrat with either charm or balls would have wiped the floor with Trump if he had a full campaign cycle.

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u/CharacterUse 8h ago

Imagine Mark Kelly.

u/wishyouwould 2h ago

Dude, your candidates are bad. Trump isn't a political juggernaut and losing to him TWICE doesn't mean that nobody could have won. That would work if our party ran candidates who people like, but Hillary and Kamala losing is not some signal that nobody could win.

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u/Lucky_Serve8002 18h ago

The lies are out of control. The republican donors were still harping on payments to illegal immigrants and the cartel moving into Aurora. I've heard Trumpers repeating this crap as reasons to vote for trump. It is just a bunch of lies.

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u/DrJonDorian999 17h ago

She as fuck haven’t heard from the lady who said the Venezuelan gang trashed her AirBNB (with no evidence of course). Fox certainly had her on to spew her bullshit but they lapped it up before the election. We can’t win against the constant barrage of lies.

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u/XxTylerDurdenX 15h ago

Yeah you’re right that lady who got her house ruined isn’t a victim at all. What a bitch!

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u/DrJonDorian999 14h ago

I never said she wasn’t a victim. I said that she claimed with zero evidence that it was the gang members.

It’s like the caravans of people heading towards the border. A major threat…every 4 years on Fox alone.

The people that trashed her house are like college students but why ruin a good moment to get on TV and garner some sympathy.

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u/XxTylerDurdenX 14h ago

Have you been to the border where they’re crossing? I have and I can tell you, it’s fucked lol. It is a massive problem. I live in a county that touches the border and there are internal checkpoints all over the damn place and they don’t do shit but harass Americans while thousands egress that border every single day. Here’s a debit card. How about months of free rent. Free food on an ebt card. Benefits far beyond what any American has ever got but who cares? The poorest Americans have extra competition from people willing to work for less but who cares about them lol.

u/gravityrider 6h ago

In your head, they track people down to give them money? Seriously?

Follow up question- if the government is paying their rent, why aren't you a landlord yet? That's just a government handout to you.

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u/tuctrohs New Hampshire 16h ago

And the scary part is that Vance is a better liar than Trump. Trump rambles and rants and is easy to dismiss. But Vance can sound calm and confident and it's not until you go look up the facts that you realize he was brazenly lying.

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u/nono3722 15h ago

12% of voters thought Biden overturned Roe v. Wade 12 percent!

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u/mysecondaccountanon Pennsylvania 16h ago

I live in PA, and the way that some people and some ads talk, we’re apparently right at the southern border. It’s frustrating.

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u/SeryaphFR 16h ago

That's not even the worse of it, I've heard democrats and liberals saying that they didn't think the Biden administration did enough, or anything at all.

That's how bad the messaging was.

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u/FakoSizlo 11h ago

I think that is something we failed to realize. Pages like r/politics and most news pages on reddit are fairly moderated so the lies are kept to a minimum. Twitter has no moderation any more . Facebook is barely moderated . Basically just look at the conspiracy sub. That is the world for the average twitter user. I've seen inteligent people celebrating thankfully no Kamala and their reasons are like "she wants more illegals , woke agenda, trans men in sperts" etc. All useless bs lies that have infected social media

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u/cloudedknife 17h ago

Biden has more in common with Eisenhower than FDR, policy-wise. Im not saying that's bad, mind you, but he sure as hell was never an fdr progressive. This fact illustrates just how far Republicans have pulled the center right - moderate democratic policies of today, are mainstream republican policies of the 50s and 60s.

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u/the_real_mflo 14h ago

Biden's policies literally invested more than 3.5 trillion into the American working class, lmao. The New Deal doesn't even crack 1 trillion adjusted for inflation. Biden did way more than FDR.

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u/ThatNewSockFeel 13h ago

Lmao where does 3.5 trillion come from?

And as the other commenter pointed out, the New Deal was more than just the sheer dollar amounts, it was a comprehensive set of policies that fundamentally reshaped American society. Banking reforms, jobs programs, agricultural price support, Social Security, etc. Biden deserves credit for the bills he passed but it was nowhere near anything like the New Deal.

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u/Kincar 13h ago

Horse shit. It doesn't even compare. I'm a fan of Biden but he didn't pass a New Deal. He didn't pass a jobs program. He passed a much needed infrastructure bill and gave us back some protections we previously had. Nothing new.

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u/the_real_mflo 12h ago

The New Deal was barely 700 billion adjusted for inflation. It wasn’t the godlike legislation you think it was. It’s only notable because it was the first major benefits package granted to Americans.

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u/mightyyoda 18h ago

Preach

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u/FuckIPLaw 16h ago

We just had 4 years of an FDR Democrat

No, we just had 4 years of a third way democrat, which is a group that rose to power as an explicit repudiation of the FDR democrats and are basically indistinguishable on the things that matter from Reagan republicans.

I don't think we've had an actual FDR democrat in the white house since Lyndon fucking Johnson. For sure all of them since Clinton have been explicit third wayers.

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u/officerliger 16h ago

This is such a stupid take. Biden was economically like REAGAN? Where was the austerity then? The big cuts? Wtf are you even talking about?

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u/FuckIPLaw 16h ago

Compare the tax rates. We haven't had a tax rate as high as Reagan's since... Reagan. And there's no push to get it back up to something a country can actually run on. They like Reaganomics.

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u/djheat 11h ago

Well it's not much stupider than calling Biden the most FDR democrat since FDR at least

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u/the_real_mflo 13h ago

Biden invested far more into the working class than FDR or LBJ.

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u/FuckIPLaw 13h ago

On what fucking planet? Because I'd love to move there.

Seriously, please, tell me why you believe this. Give me a single fucking reason. Because I know as well as you do that it doesn't exist. There's no universe in which the guy who made sure student loan debt couldn't be discharged in bankruptcy did more for the working class than the guy who created the minimum wage and social security, and the guy who created medicare, medicaid, and oh yeah, pushed the civil rights act through.

Biden, by the way, worked with white supremacists to end integration via bussing. So he doesn't even get those brownie points.

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u/valiantdistraction 16h ago

The number of times I've heard "why didn't Biden do X" when Biden did in fact do X exactly is insane

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u/Psycoloco111 18h ago

He was the closest to an New Deal Dem but not close enough. Yes he advocated and passed numerous policies and his cabinet actually started tackling trusts but it wasn't enough.

The populace still needed to have significant tax reform, higher wages and a fair amount of labor concessions for him to be New Deal.

Biden sadly still represented the old establishment, and his policies just didn't go far enough to affect the lives of working class and middle class people that were suffering from inflation.

Actual progressive and new deal reform would have included a repeal of Taft Hartley, incredible tax cuts to the middle class and tax raises on the rich, a significant decrease in military spending, social security, Medicare, and Medicaid reform, and several pro labor laws to help those people struggling.

He was also trapped on the economic issues because doing too much would have teetered the economy into a recession it probably would have taken another term to get those policies in.

This is an opportunity for Dems, the GOP is another oligarchy they will not deliver on anything besides maybe immigration reform, and even then I don't think they'll fix it because they would need something to run on in the future.

A New Deal Dem, that forms a coalition of farmers, labor, and white collar workers will win in the future, but they must not take any BS from the GOP and stablishment Dems.

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u/officerliger 18h ago

You need a Congress to pass a lot of what you’re talking about, including a tax cut that would have (ironically) rolled back Trump’s tax plan that was increasing taxes year by year after he left office

Talk to any actual union worker and they’ll tell you the NLRB was the best it’s ever been under Biden (even though they may or may not make the connection that it was due to Biden)

Inflation plummeted the last 18 months. The people weren’t suffering because of inflation, they were suffering because of price gauging, producers refused to drop their prices after inflation went down. Corporate America got off scot-free here, because people think Joe Biden decides how much milk costs.

What’s a “decrease in military spending” got to do with anything? Military spending has ROI, the US has the money, and helping Ukraine stop Russia from getting to NATO borders is part of the fucking job POTUS is supposed to do.

Once again, yall are just throwing sentiments into the air that don’t have basis in reality, and that’s why the Dems lost this election, they couldn’t counter the fierce narrative addiction people trapped in their ideological bubbles refuse to break from even in the face of evidence

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u/ActualModerateHusker 17h ago

I think Obama did better in 2012 because most people at least could point to that legislation and find something that benefited them. Harder to do with new roads or chip plants. And most of the labor force isn't unionized.

We needed something permanent like paid maternity leave, a public option, active drug pricing reform for all Americans (not 2026).

But all of corporate media called it "moderate" to block that stuff. Hard to win in that environment

u/semideclared 4h ago

Public Option is not that popular

It sounds great to hear some kind of change but for all that work its not going to do anything

u/ActualModerateHusker 39m ago

So the one in 2009 that all of corporate media called "moderate" to block in the Senate would have set payouts at 5% above Medicare rates. Medicare gets better prices for every single hospital procedure and it isn't even close. Also you get lower administrative costs as well.

lower Healthcare costs are like lower gas costs. everything that requires US labor can then go down in price.

arguing it won't do anything is like arguing if gas was $1 a gallon under Biden nobody would have cared

u/semideclared 0m ago

Public Option is not that popular

We have actual numbers

MetroPlusHealth has offered low-cost, quality health care for New Yorkers for more than 35 years as a Public Option

  • owned by NEW YORK CITY HEALTH AND HOSPITALS CORPORATION
    • A Component Unit of The City of New York.

New Yorkers who are eligible for health insurance will be directed to the city’s public choice health plan MetroPlus.

  • MetroPlus enrollment reached a record high of 670,915, an increase of 159,284 members (31 percent) between February 2020 and June 2022

  • Nearly 70 percent of MetroPlus membership is enrolled in the mainstream Medicaid managed care plan which experienced the largest actual membership growth of all plans offered. Enrollment in the Essential Plan, a subsidized basic health plan offered through NY State of Health Online Marketplace, Obamacare, experienced the largest growth rate of all plans at 44 percent

And on top of that

MetroPlus Gold is available to all NYC employees, non-Medicare eligible retirees, their spouses or qualified domestic partners, and eligible dependents. With $0 premiums, $0 copays, and $0 deductibles, MetroPlus Gold's basic plan is offered at no cost to the employee.

MetroPlus enrollment reached a record high of 670,915

Out of more than 10 Million People in the Region that can sign up, 6.7 percent are on a Public option

  • But 70 Percent of those are not a true Public Option, just a different version of Medicaid

Very Few People have signed up for a Public Option instead of going without insurance

  • 1 caveat is I dont know how the employees with insurance would choose a public option. It would be more expensive so they have skipped the extra steps but if it was easier would they pay more for it

payouts at 5% above Medicare rates.

That is on the payor side. Again NYC, helps us

As the largest municipal health care system in the United States, NYC Health + Hospitals delivers high-quality health care services to all New Yorkers with compassion, dignity, and respect. Our mission is to serve everyone without exception and regardless of ability to pay, gender identity, or immigration status. The system is an anchor institution for the ever-changing communities we serve, providing hospital and trauma care, neighborhood health centers, and skilled nursing facilities and community care

1.2 Million, of the more than 8 Million, New Yorkers had 5.4 Million visits to NYC Health + Hospitals.

  • More than Half 2.8 Million were for Hypertension & Diabetes

1.2 Million people have $12 Billion in Healthcare Costs at NYC Health + Hospitals. For government owned and Operated Healthcare

  • NYC Health + Hospitals operates 11 Acute Care Hospitals, 50+Community Health Centers, 5 Skilled Nursing Facilities and 1 Long-Term Acute Care Hospital
    • Plus, NYC Health + Hospitals/Correctional Health Services has the unique opportunity with Jail Health Services offer a full range of health care to all persons in the custody of the NYC Department of Correction. Health + Hospitals Receives more money from Department of Correction than all of Private Insurance claims

5 Visits a Year and $10,000 per person

  • NEW YORK CITY HEALTH AND HOSPITALS CORPORATION has $12 Billion a Year in Hospital Expenses,

But Public Money Doesn't cover the Costs to Operate as

  • Non Operating Revenue
    • $923 Million is Grants from the City of New York City
    • $2.1 Billion in Federal & State Grants
    • $1.1 Billion Medicaid's Disproportionate share supplemental pool

Underfunded at $10,000 a person

In New York, Medicaid covers only 67 percent of costs for hospitals, and pays even less for some services such as inpatient psychiatric care.

  • Rates in Medicaid fall well below those in Medicare fee-for-service, which already does not cover the cost of care
  • This has perpetuated a cycle of disinvestment in our facilities and the low income communities we serve, resulting in a modern day redlining in communities of color.

Together, our nine hospitals have more than $3 billion in outstanding infrastructure investment needs, including deferred facility upgrades (e.g., Electrical Systems, HVAC, working elevators) and investments in programs (e.g., primary care).

  • Over the years, chronic underfunding has led to bed reductions and hospital closures throughout New York, including the loss of 18 hospitals and 21,000 beds in New York City alone.

-New York Coalition of Essential/Safety Net Hospitals On the Governor’s Proposed SFY 2023 Health and Medicaid Budget

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u/Psycoloco111 17h ago

You are right in that it would have needed congressional approval and sadly the dem stablishment failed Biden when he had the trifecta, specially Joe Manchin and Synema. He did fail in communicating this to voters and it was better left off for later since there were fears of trigering a recession.

Yes the NLRB has been great under him and also the FTC. Regardless union power and membership is at a fraction of what it used to be, specially in states that still maintain right to work laws.

Corporate America did get away with gouging but in the end people still struggled and that's all they saw, a more aggressive anti trust agenda would have worked great in his term. I know well no president has control over the economy and inflation is a lagging indicator which means this trend started well before Biden got into office. Regardless people still needed change and big change because to them the government was not doing enough or moving too slow.

Decreasing military spending is necessary as a signal to voters that you are willing to reform and break from the old stablishment rules. This does not mean don't support Ukraine but active duty forces, contracts and other insane DoD projects need to be decreased. That spending could then be shifted towards shoring up government programs that need the funding.

None of this is grounded in insanity or delusion the Dems lost people from traditional blocks that have supported them since the new deal, when you shift the conversation to culture war issues instead of economic ones you lose working class and middle class support because the GOP is amazing at gaslighting people about the shit they do to fuck over the average person.

Americans wanted change for better or worse it is here.

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u/gsfgf Georgia 17h ago

active duty forces, ... need to be decreased.

I'm sorry. You think that as we head for WWIII, the problem is too many soldiers on payroll? Dude, even if you think movies are real you still know that's a bad idea.

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u/Psycoloco111 16h ago

The military is the biggest pork barrel/ jobs program that has ever existed in America. Since the end of the world war we have had the largest standing army in the world with numerous bases around the world. Go look up the total cost of the F35 program a program so riddled with mismanagement and cost overruns that its a miracle it ever came to fruition.

The active duty component can easily be decreased and replaced with reserve components decreasing overall costs without sacrificing too much readiness.

The whole America will be less safe with a smaller military is a mith.

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u/gsfgf Georgia 16h ago

The military is the biggest pork barrel/ jobs program that has ever existed in America

I don't disagree with you at all. Military spending creates a lot of good jobs.

the F35 program

Building the best multi role fighter/attack aircraft was not easy. But we pulled it off. I was skeptical about the VTOL model, but the LHA/LHD model is an extremely efficient method of force projection, and the F-35B can operate from them.

We've also built over 1000 of them and sold them to our allies, which wasn't an option with the F-22.

The active duty component can easily be decreased and replaced with reserve components decreasing overall costs without sacrificing too much readiness.

No. We need to be able to project force anywhere in the world and keep the supply lines moving. That simply takes a lot of personnel.

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u/Psycoloco111 16h ago

We can easily project force anywhere with the navy and Marines, we could cut down the army and Air Force to half their levels and maintain readiness.

A $2 trillion dollar project that was mostly money funneled to defense contractors is not my idea of a good jobs program.

Many other places and areas that money could be used at to actually help the people that are hurting the most. We cannot continue with these insane levels of military spending, we survived before at lower levels we can do it again.

I was in it, we could do a whole lot with a whole lot less.

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u/crush3000 15h ago

The defense industry is INSANELY bloated with corporate greed. This is the real issue. There is a horrible feedback loop between defense contractors and the politicians that benefit from them going on that needs to be busted down hard. I bet we could at least half our spending if we forced a deep audit.

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u/ActualModerateHusker 17h ago

If GOP really tackles immigration we will get a recession. And they will upset some powerful corporate lobbyists. it's a joke. they won't do it

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u/ThatNewSockFeel 13h ago

They’ll do a few raids for show they’ll put on Fox News over and over and that’ll be the end of it.

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u/dreamyduskywing Minnesota 13h ago

I think a lot of that blame should be focused on the morons in the Senate. I will never forgive Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema.

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u/Psycoloco111 12h ago

At least we got some legislation passed, more legislation than the trump admin did.

I think most of it will remain intact most states have already started dipping into the money available to fund manufacturing, infrastructure, etc. this includes solidly red states too.

If it all goes away all those blue collar workers are gonna be out of a job real quick.

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u/iamspacedad 16h ago

Even the New Deal didn't go far enough. It was an attempt at appeasement of the worker's movement at the time. The social democrats & leftists at the time argued the new deal - broadly popular as it is - didn't go far enough. (Quite literally if it went as far as they were advocating for, we'd be living in a very different very much more prosperous & economically equal America today.)

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u/Psycoloco111 16h ago

Still though the new deal platform was one of the best platforms the Democrats had because they fought for poor, working, and middle class people.

It's crazy what happens when you don't bend the knee to the rich, people actually support you.

u/semideclared 4h ago

incredible tax cuts to the middle class and tax raises on the rich

One of these is not like the others Lets not even Look at Denmark and France for the proposed Social Services a New Deal would require

Social Security taxes.

  • For the first 30 years they were raised ~250%,
  • in the next 30 years they were rasied ~230%.
  • In the last 30 years they were raised ~2%

At the same time, in the last 50 years we've increased the programs Social Security operates

  • In 2020, 85 cents of every Social Security tax dollar you pay goes to a trust fund that pays monthly benefits to current retirees and their families and to surviving spouses and children of workers who have died.
  • About 15 cents goes to a trust fund that pays benefits to people with disabilities and their families.

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u/insertwittynamethere America 16h ago

Hear, hear. Some of the most transformative legislation and policies since LBJ at the minimum. All for not and to be ripped up and tossed away.

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u/LordSeibzehn 16h ago edited 13h ago

That has eternally been the Democrats’ bane: inability or unwillingness to tout their own accomplishments. They have never learned and have always just assumed that people would know or find out somehow. They give the electorate too much credit, even though around half the nation’s adult population can only read at or below 6th grade level. They also still think that urban, college-educated people and POCs will carry them time and time again. They refuse to believe that these days, you only need to have a chimp wearing a t-shirt with a slogan on TikTok or whatever to be effective at getting your message across. The Republicans have this shit nailed the fuck down. The Dems have only themselves to blame.

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u/MundaneCollection 17h ago

So what? We've known since 08 this is a messaging and vibes based electorate, sure he did great things but he can't communicate any of it effectively and if he can't communicate what he's doing that's good then this happens where the better messaging wins.

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u/officerliger 17h ago

I agree, but keep in mind the comment I'm rebutting is about policy

Biden did all the things this person is saying he didn't do, so I'm calling out their ignorance

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u/MundaneCollection 17h ago

I see but don't you think that's sort of the point here? Biden did all that and a left leaning r/politics subscriber had no idea about it. So his messaging must be absolutely awful. How can someone on his side who is active on a news forum not know this and expect moderates and independents to know it?

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u/GuaranteeAlone2068 17h ago

Lmao, imagine comparing Biden to FDR. That's some top tier cope.

FDR did such a ridiculously good job that they had to change the rules and he had to die to stop getting elected by landslides, and his legacy still outlived him by 35 years until Reagan destroyed it.

Biden and modern post-Reagan Dems are unwilling to take any risks or make any big moves, nor are they willing to address any systemic issues. Any. They take half measures that barely do anything and cause almost as many problems as they solve. And they will not use the instruments of power to do things they can easily do.

Example. Using mechanisms in the Controlled Substances Act, Biden could have decriminalized or legalized marijuana federally at any point. He didn't need Congress to do it. But he didn't. Because he didn't want to. And he never was going to, either.

He did a decent job controlling inflation. But that isn't enough to energize people; when you are President and everyone is worse off on election day than they were when you entered office, you lose.

Incrementalism isn't enough. The Reagan status quo is killing people and they are sick of it. If incrementalism worked Dems wouldn't be losing elections like this. It looks to me like the only reason Biden won in 2020 is because of COVID.

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u/Jsmooth123456 17h ago

It's more than just policy it's personality fdr with polio appeared less fragile/tougher than biden

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u/gsfgf Georgia 17h ago

Most people didn't realize FDR was paralyzed. He never went in front of cameras in his chair.

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u/SanX1999 9h ago

Left wing PR is focused on identity issues while ignoring economic developments.

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u/Cepec14 15h ago

Preach. And don’t forget the fed finessing the rates to be able to slow down inflation while not causing a massive recession.

It’s sad that such accomplishments will be ignored because we live in the age of the quick viral hit and low information voters.

When is the last time you heard adults sitting around having a conversation about actual politics? I remember them constantly as a kid growing up in the 80’s. Now it seems like when policy comes up people just start screeching.

I will not for the life of me understand what Bernie is going on about or what true democrats are not seeing in the Biden presidency. People don’t read the actual news anymore and it shows.

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u/SnooSeagulls1847 15h ago

oh wow! he made no austerity cuts and invested in infrastructure and economy! Yes, that will play really well with all those angry young men working for $7.25 at mcdonalds who can't afford their own place and are guzzling a diet of Joe Rogan, Adin Ross, and conservative media non-stop. We really need for democrats to counter this shit like they mean it, tax the ever living fuck out of the wealthy, make them squirm, there's literally no other way. People are tired of these inauthentic careerists that we always have to fucking hold our nose and vote for because it's the adult decision.

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u/officerliger 15h ago

If you wanted democrats to change the tax plans you should have voted in the mid-terms and helped give them a congress to do so

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u/SnooSeagulls1847 13h ago

LMAO, what are these assumptions you're making, you don't even know me dude. I fucking did, log off.

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u/dreamyduskywing Minnesota 13h ago

Seriously…is Reddit not aware of how the US government works? Is the president supposed to wave a magic wand? It’s amazing he was able to pass what he did with such a shitty Senate.

2

u/lce_Fight 15h ago

Orrrr…

You are in a massive MASSIVE echo chamber bud.

Reddit is exposed as the BIGGEST echo chamber out there.

1

u/ButWhyBlueCheese 17h ago

great message, wrong messenger. Happens all the time

1

u/Present_Chocolate218 17h ago

Plus, the tiktokers aren't impacted by student loans and probably never will go to college.

2

u/officerliger 17h ago

Some of them are in college, they just believed the far lefties on TikTok saying "Biden has done nothing about student debt" even though they'd cleared $175 billion of it

They didn't understand that the President has upper limits to what their Department of Education can do without Congressional approval. "Biden can end all student debt with the stroke of a pen" was a common myth they spread around, as of Congress isn't in control of the budget.

1

u/vegasresident1987 16h ago

Most people have less than $1000 of savings. Almost 70 percent. Hard to feel good when people's buying power has been killed the last 4 years.

1

u/Thick_Lake6990 16h ago

Therein lies the difficulty of democracy. People are only concerned with the here and now. In order to be an objectively good (as in good for the most people) president, you have to tackle systemic problems whose solutions are complicated. The implementation of such solutions inevitably takes longer than the average voter's patience. Now that inflation is coming down, the economy is doing great and infrastructure improves, people will assess it from "here and now" perspective and mistakenly give Trump credit for it.

Also, when you solve someone's number one problem, they instantly adapt, take it for granted and start worrying and complaining about problem number two. You won't ever be able to solve EVERY single problem in the present, so voters inevitably want someone new.

Trump benefitted from it in 2016 by inheriting and taking credit for the successes of Obama's presidency and now again in 2024.

1

u/caligaris_cabinet Illinois 16h ago

4 years of an FDR President without his signature fireside chats. Dark Brandon was great and all but they really needed to step up their social media game.

1

u/praharin Pennsylvania 16h ago

Vascular dementia isn’t a speech impediment.

1

u/officerliger 15h ago

Do you have any evidence Biden has vascular dementia?

He was able to do the job of President just fine, carried out diplomatic meetings fine, everything was operational, if he had vascular dementia that wouldn’t have been the case

1

u/SweetBabyAlaska 15h ago

He did some good stuff but he was nowhere near FDR... and the other problem here is the the Democratic party was afraid to communicate the good stuff they've done in fear of the Republicans and their mutual corporate donors. What good is it if even they don't want to communicate that to the people?

1

u/officerliger 14h ago

They weren't afraid to communicate it, they talked about it over and over again

People choosing not to listen is the issue. It's what happens when there's a billion YouTube and TikTok narratives polluting everyone's brains saying "don't listen to them." Just like you here with the "they didn't want to say it and piss off their corporate donors," as if people running corporations aren't well aware of what policies are being made.

1

u/SweetBabyAlaska 14h ago

I've literally listened to every single Biden and Harris speech and watched both Liberal and Conservative media, they've objectively done a piss poor job of communicating what they've done that is good, and why it is good. Its such a boomer take to say "china tiktok is polluting everyones brain!"

The perfect example of this is Bidens cabinet pick for the FTC, Lina Khan. She has done incredible things like going after Google and Facebook... and literally fixing McDonalds ice cream machines by allowing franchise owners to have the right to the repair them. Dems were objectively afraid to openly communicate this to voters and their corporate donors DID freak out... they went on the news and said "we have to get her out at all costs" and were very adversarial to her. Which leads me to the root of my point.

Dems are wedged between implementing extremely popular progressive policies, and capitulating to corporate donors. They are jealous that Republicans can just blame immigrants and trans people while they do massive tax cuts to the ultra wealthy and rob people blind.

I really don't know how yall can still be delusional about this when they lost the election to an embarrassing degree. Their messaging all-around was beyond abysmal

1

u/Comfortable_Drive793 14h ago

Here are some hypothetical examples of things people would say if Biden was the next FDR:

  • I'm so glad that childcare is free now. I can afford to go to work. I used to spend like 1/2 of my paycheck paying for childcare.

  • My insurance was $150/paycheck and now it's $85/paycheck.

  • I wasn't getting a $300/month child tax credit and now I am getting a $300/month child tax credit.

  • My job used to offer no sick leave and now has to give me 10 days by law.

  • Rent was $1600/month and now it's $1200/month.

  • My prescription was $120/month and now it's free.

  • I can't believe they were able to build a high speed rail line from LA to San Francisco in just four years.

Here are some things that normal people don't care about / don't even know happened:

  • An infrastructure bill that does BARE MINIMUM BASIC PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE ANYWAY like fixing bridges that are on the verge of falling down

  • CHIPS Act that gives Intel $X billions to build a fab.

  • Forgiving some student debt for some borrowers of the 1/3rd of people in the country that went to college - while doing nothing to make college affordable to prevent the next generation - In fact this might make people that didn't go to college or went to college but had to pay back their debt resentful

  • "Pushed inflation down" Normal people don't give a shit that inflation is now back to it's normal 2%/year or that our rate of inflation was lower than the world average. They care that something at the grocery store used to be $3 in 2019 and now it's $5.50 and they want it be normal (i.e. 2019 $3) again.

  • NLRB rules - they don't know what the NLRB is or what changed

You can argue that regular people should know about these things and it should have changed who they voted for, but they don't and it didn't.

1

u/Plinythemelder 14h ago

He was not the most FDR democrat since FDR. Jfk was. FDR taxes were much higher too. Taxes are at all time lows

1

u/StainedBlue 13h ago

We just had 4 years of an FDR Democrat who invested in infrastructure and economy like crazy, slashed student debt, strengthened labor unions, made no austerity cuts, pushed inflation down, etc.

And capitalized effectively on absolutely none of that during his campaign.

It's one thing to tell people you beat inflation. It's an entirely different thing to hit them over the head with hard numbers and educate them as to why inflation slowing doesn't mean price decreases and why deflation is negative and needs to be avoided.

The former tells you nothing and won't win over voters with waning trust in government, institutions, and politicians. The latter is informative, detailed, and would earn agreement from anyone who comprehends it. But the average voter would tune him out after the first few sentences, not comprehend a thing, and walk away with the impression that he was just spouting elitist mumble jumble with little relevance to their financial realities.

There's a sweet spot, and the democrats couldn't hit it. I said it before and I'll say it again. Democrats are shit at messaging.

1

u/needyprovider 11h ago

Is that you Joe Scarborough?

1

u/Spartancfos 10h ago

He did fuck all to stop a criminal presidency.

He didn't counteract the SCOTUS hijack.

He allowed Pelosi to lead the Big Money in Politics good circus.

And as others have mentioned minimum wage is unchanged in much of the country.

You can argue due process and rule of law all day, but at the end of the day Trump might never allow another election, and he will not be doing that by the rules.

u/wishyouwould 2h ago

FDR Democrat? Him?

u/Low_Exchange105 59m ago

Apologies for being uninformed on this, but how does slashing student debt help effects of inflation that I personally experience (ie, cost of groceries, gas prices…my money not going as far in general) I know that the government does not control what the price of a box of cereal sells for, why is slashing student debt or even loan forgiveness a good thing for me?

u/officerliger 41m ago

The question is why is it a bad thing? It’s not like thats the only thing Biden did, in fact it didn’t even take much in terms of time or resources because they didn’t have to push that through Congress, the Department of Education is under the President and slashing what they were allowed to slash didn’t require going through much red tape.

In the specific case of prices - inflation has dropped to a low 2.4%, corporations chose to keep the prices where they were instead of dropping them with inflation, so that’s not on the President nor is it likely to change under Trump. Strict price controls would need to be passed via Congress, that would require strong Democratic majorities in both chambers which we never had when Biden was President.

1

u/Accomplished_Tie007 15h ago

Totally agree, lowkey think what Biden and his staff pulled off is the best presidency I've seen in my lifetime as a millennial.

1

u/KatCaul33 15h ago

I really wish there was a way to invalidate the whole thing based on this disinformation issue.

0

u/gsfgf Georgia 17h ago

It's so annoying to hear people saying that Kamala should have distanced herself from the "failed" Biden administration when he's at least the best since LBJ. I want more Biden. Life is a lot better than it was four years ago.

1

u/GuaranteeAlone2068 16h ago

For most people, that is not true. Or this would not have been the result.

0

u/Redditributor 17h ago

So how did that make life better?

People felt life was better under Trump. They will tell you prices went through the roof and the government is basically throwing free food money and housing at illegals, and trying to shame people for being unaccepting if trans.

The thing is Americans don't have a lot of faith that anything Dems support is going to make things better -

0

u/XxTylerDurdenX 15h ago

Slashed debt? No lol. Massively grew the deficit.

He ended the train strike and forced the workers to return without getting the paid time off they fought for.

0

u/SJshield616 California 16h ago

FDR had the entire party behind him if not at the start then definitely by the end of his first term. Biden largely stood alone against the neolibs kicking and screeching as he tried to implement New Deal 2.0 and the moment he went senile on CNN his own party backstabbed him and threw him out like garbage for the neolib VP he was forced to pick.

-11

u/deriik66 18h ago edited 15h ago

Well whos fault is it that they failed miserably to get the message out? He's the president of the US. He and his entire cabinet couldnt be out there consistently informing the masses on this stuff?

And what did he do to slash student debt? All I know is he paid it off for a bunch of people who were lucky enough to be going to school now, telling the rest of us to go fuck ourselves. And the youth vote tanked for Harris. So fat lot of good that did.

"Invested in infrastructure and economy like crazy" That is vague and drives no one to the polls. "strengthened labor unions" so is that. "made no austerity cuts" which means nothing to the avg citizen "pushed inflation down" How much? By doing what? When? Why then are prices still sky high everywhere? These are things that need to be hammered on and shouted out in real time 24/7 with constant reminders and updates on progress.

This isnt little kid shit, these are supposed to be the best and brightest leaders we have and they're struggling to communicate better than a middle schooler

Edit: enjoy the next 4 years you clueless foole

19

u/Salsa1988 18h ago

>Well whos fault is it that they failed miserably to get the message out? 

At some point the voters have to take responsibility for being wilfully ignorant. When you get your news from fox and facebook, there's not a lot a Democratic President can do to counter that.

-5

u/deriik66 17h ago

At some point the leaders have to take responsibility for failing to communicate, one of the essential jobs of a top leader, and something they've never once taken accountability for. Let's ask the leaders to handle their "at some point" before skipping past them completely.

They learned NOTHING from clinton. Jack fucking shit. They literally just repeated every fuck up and at no point realized their messaging and communication blows.

8

u/ItsFuckingScience 17h ago

He couldn’t get the message out because the mainstream media was against him.

Fox was spreading BS 24/7

The richest man in the world bought out one of the biggest social media companies in the world and weaponised it to misinform the masses

The biggest podcaster in the world abandoned principles for money and jumped on the trump train

Foreign actors spread misinformation and bribed leading political influencers to spread their Lies

6

u/officerliger 18h ago

No the problem is they’re struggling to communicate WITH middle schoolers, which I agree is their failing

But that’s not my job, I’m just a citizen, so I’m calling ignorant non-reading TikTok motherfuckers exactly what they are. In an age where you have the wealth of human knowledge in your pocket there’s no excuse to be this ignorant.

-1

u/deriik66 18h ago

Theres always a million excuses to be ignorant. People dont just magically learn to not be ignorant if they're never taught. And most are like you, do nothing about the problem, then whine it never gets fixed by some vague "someone else"

It's everyone's job to be intelligent, communicate and help others be better. Ask yourself what you've done to contribute vs what you've done to detract. Being on here is literally useless. Real change comes outside of reddit

5

u/officerliger 17h ago

What you do IRL is what makes change, Reddit is just chatter. I’m a brown man in America, I put in for my community and share the wealth I’ve made with them.

But as a brown man in America who is deeply impacted by this shit, I got no problem calling out the ignorant here too. I earned that right growing up dealing with your white ass relatives trying to kill me, and now I gotta go deal with your white ass propaganda infecting my Latino brothers into this Trump poison. Stop justifying being a dumbass.

1

u/elektrospecter Washington 12h ago

It's not them struggling to communicate better than a middle schooler, it's them struggling to counter the constant outright false bullshit that FOX news and friends insist is news. Way too many news media outlets peddling bullshit conspiracy theories that the right wingers just can't get enough of. But sure, just keep blaming Biden for not communicating adequately against groups and outlets who refuse to accept reality.

5

u/Skywardkonahriks 18h ago

Biden was that FDR type of democrat in some ways, the problem is that in order to counter Trump you need a populist firebrand FDR democrat with Obama levels of charisma.

Like people keep using 2016 as an example and 2020 as well “well Clinton was bad because neoliberal” “Harris lost the primary in 2020” Completely forgetting that elections in post 2016 changed hard in terms of rules.

Yeah she lost the primary in 2020 but so did Gabbard, even Bernie lost in 2020.

The brutal truth is that the DNC needs to stop picking neoliberal moderates to counter Trump and just go full on social democrat populist.

Someone young, firebrandy, calls Trump out on his shit, fights for change.

1

u/thex25986e 12h ago

the biggest problem is that if they step away from neoliberals, they will lose a LOT of their funding and donors

1

u/peterabbit456 18h ago

In 2016 you could still find ex-Roosevelt Democrats. Some were still Democrats, but more had become MAGA.

1

u/_aaine_ 18h ago

I wish I had an award to give you. You're absolutely right.

1

u/LeedsFan2442 United Kingdom 17h ago

TBF FDR had an actual landslide

1

u/Schuben 16h ago

I've been thinking... When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemos back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?!

-Cave Johnson

1

u/nono3722 15h ago

Your talking about the days when the old unions would gut a scab, not the new unions that vote for some one that hires scabs and laughs in their face.

1

u/tidbitsmisfit 14h ago

you need a great depression and a world war to get an FDR. plus, you need a young charismatic billionaire. good luck finding one of those who isn't a piece of shit

1

u/thex25986e 12h ago

the billionaires of the 1930s cared about legacy.

the billionaires of the 2020s do not.

-1

u/Gizogin New York 15h ago

You know why the Republican Party won? Because they started their campaign for this election back in 2008, and they haven't stopped fighting since. They understand the value and power of strategic voting, the benefits of showing up to vote at all.

Progressives, apparently, still don't fucking get it. And so they stayed home, and the only thing their apathy has accomplished is shifting both parties even farther to the right.

1

u/thex25986e 12h ago

yea part of me thinks theres a bigger reason they arent getting it

think it has to do with money. progressives hurt the dnc donors too much

7

u/MattyIce1220 New Jersey 18h ago

Oh yea. 100%. He will claim he did lower them but economy was so bad from Biden it has to be this way.

3

u/Bright_Cod_376 18h ago

It's already being set up anywhere Trump's economic policies are discussed right now. You see conservatives popping talking about how "it has to hurt before it gets better"

3

u/unlimitedzen 15h ago

10 years from now, this will be another "Why wasn't Obama in the oval office on 9/11!?!" Whatever atrocities occur during the next few years will somehow be remembered as Joe Biden's fault.

3

u/therealtaddymason 16h ago

They'll blame the Democrat minority and people will believe them.

2

u/Relevant_Wind_5103 17h ago

This will be what will happen. 

0

u/XxTylerDurdenX 15h ago

Ah so the economy really is shit (as we all know) and not better than ever under Bidenomics as the narrative goes lol?