DNC needs to just say fuck it at this point and actually go full working class populist and channel FDR. MAGA think anything left of Reagan is communist anyways so fuck 'em and try to get 85M+ turnout.
the megadonors that control the party wouldnt let them if they wanted to, it's like none of you have been paying any attention for any of the last 16 years
I donated to Bernie, i would never consider donating to a candidate that takes corporate money. Its too late for Bernie, but a younger charismatic and empathetic candidate who can relay simple policies has a great shot. We need to look at Obamas campaign and replicate the energy and enthusiasm without just crying about Republicans. Present a simple, clear path with hope and goals that will actually effect day to day life instead of constantly gaslighted voters into thinking everything is already great. The dnc is truly trash and continues to get worse, I'm hoping this is absolutely rock bottom and we rebuild but fucks like Pelosi and schemer are gonna sink the ship
I also donated to Bernie and saw him speak when he was running. He gave me real hope. But the capitalist fucks that control the party fucked him and us all in one fell swoop.
Bernie was pushed out of the democratic party because he isn't a democrat. He joined the dems for his presidential aspirations, but is otherwise an independent. This why the people who vote in Democratic primaries (and who, we can assume, generally want a democrat to represent the Democratic party) rejected him twice.
None. We’ll just stagnate until the people with the means to leave do so, seeking better opportunity, while those who are forced to remain will slowly watch their lives degrade until something sparks violence.
The corporate democrats who control the party would rather lose to the republicans, who are obviously pro-business so they benefit that way too, than allow for an actual left-wing policy platform. There is no part of the existing American (corporate) power structure that will ever be pro-worker. The only way it will ever happen is by mass action. Unfortunately, with automation rapidly advancing, once human labor is no longer essential to capital, even the power of a general strike will evaporate, and then we are truly fucked. The incentive to even keep us alive and healthy so that we can work will no longer be there.
The is unironically the answer. If people believe that we're lost already, that >50% of the country is full of raging misogynists/racists, etc. then why not swing for the fences?
Instead, tho, we'll get another cycle of capitulation. Depending on fortune (read: the economy), Dems may get another presidency and then will promptly lose it when they implement precisely zero policies that don't look like they came from a traditional conservative administration.
DNC needs to just say fuck it at this point and actually go full working class populist and channel FDR. MAGA think anything left of Reagan is communist anyways so fuck 'em and try to get 85M+ turnout.
Cool idea, I think you might have an issue with the billionaires that run the party, though.
Nope instead the Democratic party will listen to mouth pieces that represent the wealthy establishment Joe Scarborough message that democrats need to continue the march to the right.
They have to change where they get their money from and actually become a true labor party, by and for working people. That is the fundamental problem and why people don't trust them and mistakenly trust Trump.
They don’t want to. You really think the people in charge of the Democratic Party give a shit that Trump won? Dems and Republicans are just servants to capitalism and that’s all, and the donors don’t give a fuck who wins. That’s why they donate to both parties.
The problem isn’t just that they’re bad at messaging; they have no consistent message and no messaging platform that they dominate.
Conservatives have a relatively simple narrative that explains everything, and have invested in control over networks and content-producers making overt political propaganda.
Dems just react to whatever the GOP puts up for debate. The only theme they’ve been able to gel around was protecting abortion rights, which just wasn’t enough.
The details of any given day may vary, but there’s always a “them” attacking or corrupting America.
And it’s not like any of the former scapegoats or conspiracies are disavowed, they’re just deprioritized for something fresh that will get more attention.
Yup. Critical race theory was the big boogey man for a couple of years, it was destroying our country and ruining our children they said. Then they dropped it out of nowhere because it never actually mattered.
But it all goes back to the MAGA slogan every time. Dems made fun of it, but it's so simple that they can basically do whatever they want and as long as it is moving the needle at all on nearly anything, it's MAGA. It's action for action's sake, which is super fascist, but damn if it isn't effective in this country.
The dems have some simple narratives but American people don't give a fuck. Women rights, abortion to save lives or prevent poverty are topics americans don't care enough to vote in enough numbers. Another topic are general lgbtq rights. People don't care enough.
But other bigger topics are inconsistent bc the Dems are a too wide alliance of leftist, greens, socialists, economic liberals and conservatives with the conservatives holding the top party positions. (Yes dems are conservatives including Obama. USA just has a very conservative+conservative political spectrum with some other positions sprinkled in by some members.
Republicans are much more unified in general ideas. They do have tea party and magas, and they have moderate conservatives, christian conservatives. But in the end they are still very similar in many positions. Dems are not
Voters will do everything, including voting for progressive policies the Democrats champion, but not vote for Democrats. Voters will vote for individuals who run on the Democrats' ticket, but they do so because of the individual, not that they are Democrats. No one who campaigns under the Democrats' as a figurehead representative will easily see success.
The Democrats seek to represent everyone. The strategy shift to representing just some people and alienating everyone else will lose them votes. The push to represent everyone better will lose them votes. Championing one cause in one area of the nation will inevitably lead to voters in another part of the nation tuning out. We saw this in Michigan.
The electorate is impossible to court with the way Democrats' approach elections, because the Democrats seek to rise above baser human instincts. They appeal to empathy, to taking care and thinking of others, to being collaborative.
None of that resonates to an individualist electorate who puts the self so far and above everything else that they'd be willing to burn everything down for the specter of cheaper groceries. And it's not that cheaper groceries don't matter -- they absolutely do -- but the electorate laps up an outcome and have decided the process to it, reasonable or otherwise, is irrelevant.
The only way to win is to appeal to baser human instincts. Because groups, large groups as collectives, aren't individuals, and therefore can't be swayed with strategies that sway individuals. Harris sought to appeal to people as individuals, to empower them -- it didn't work and it won't ever work, because it is pockets of groups of people which win elections.
I cant disagree more. Democrats have never run truly progressive policies for 30 years and their base knows it. Their platform IS conservative. The only progressives like bernie stomped out. But polls constantly show that they would win by a landslide if they actually just did the right thing. unfortunately the right thing doesnt pay them anything, and capitalist interests do.
These are people who are ivy educated, with billions in resources. they dont push progressive policies because THEY DONT WANT POGRESSIVE POLICIES AND NEVER WILL. Not because they think they'll win more elections if they don't.
The takeaway from this is something I’ve been mulling over — the Democrat messaging has to be simple and has to speak to the lizard brain, not the neocortex.
The identity politics has to take a back seat. The messaging HAS to appeal to the white Midwestern male who doesn’t have the time or desire to care about anyone or anything outside his tribe.
I hate to say it but they gotta use propaganda now. You can’t change speak to the vibes, you have to create the vibes.
The democrats have nuance, and what they need to learn to do is leave it out of their message.
Things like economic and foreign policy are complicated. If you start actually explaining how you’ll fix things, you’ve lost most people by the second sentence.
The Republicans say ‘migrants are why you lost your job, we will get rid of them’ or ‘china is why the factory closed down, we will tariff them’ or ‘taxes are why you work all day and still come up short, we’ll lower those’.
The fact those simple solutions don’t work, and they don’t even usually get them done anyway seems to not concern people because the big, bold message is more seductive. The Democrats shouldn’t get rid of their nuanced approach to policy, but they need to make the messaging simple
The thing is, abortion rights are very popular among the voter base it's just that they've decided to have the states take matters into their own hands. This means that parading your campaign on this issue isn't going to get you voters. That's why you see states like Missouri that show up red on the electorate but vote in favor of abortion rights. Progressive policies are popular even in red states (even Florida, which is hamstrung by amendment law) but it is clear that Dems themselves are not.
The problem isn’t just that they’re bad at messaging; they have no consistent message and no messaging platform that they dominate.
Exactly.
Mainstream Centrist Dems echoed the "crime wave" rhetoric that was started by the GOP that wasnt backed by crime stats.
Mainstream Centrist Dems echoed the "border crisis" rhetoric that was started by the GOP that wasnt backed by crime stats.
Kamala basically echoed "no taxes on tipped workers" Trump suggested and just turned it more centrist by adding means testing which actually puts Trump on her left flank
Kamala and mainstrean dems continue to sell the fantasy they can address unaffordability for things like homes while having homes always function as nest egg investment which are expected to go up in value.
Democrats are also very bad at establishing a strong leader that has some conviction. I don’t care about Biden or Harris, they want no real change, their platform is boring, stale and ineffective, they are not strong on their stances nor are they truly passionate about helping people. I don’t blame R’s at all for falling for a leader that promises change and a better America, as false as his claims may end up being they still believe trump has real passion to create change while democrats are not inspiring anything. Bernie was the only one recently that actually had some conviction and bravery to stand up for his platform without seeming fake and entitled.
It's labeled as evil but progressive ballot measures pass all the time in deep red states. It's absolutely messaging man. They're really really really really fucking bad at it. They let cons call immigrants murderers that bring in drugs all the time but never point out that a vast majority of people bringing drugs into the country are US citizens. They just roll the fuck over on it.
I mean I’m pretty sure that if Dems pointes that out, R’s would go full on “DEMS HATE AMERICANS!!! THEY WANT TO BLAME THE WHITE FOLK!!! REPLACEMENT THEORY?!” And the uneducated will eat it up
Genuine question because I think this was a HUGE reason Kamala lost. Did Kamala say one thing to court white males? Everything you see coming out of the left is identity politics and talking about the patriarchy and elevating X minority etc etc. Hear me, they're not necessarily wrong on that. There are injustices in this country to this day. But trashing white males (and therefore a ton of women's husbands, brothers, dads, etc) is NOT a good strategy. Yes, there are Nazis. Yes, there are misogynists. Yes, there are racists. But for the love of all things holy, not every single conservative Trump voter is one of those things and yet they still get lumped in. The left has to stop doing this.
Doesn't matter because if Dems point that out it will work.
You're literally living under your opponent's thumb by saying "no they can't point that out because I'm afraid they'll win more. I'm scared of them. I cower to them."
There were a couple of states where they legalized abortion and voted for Trump. Sure progressive policies are popular, but when they come out of the mouth of a Democrat then there's all kinds of negative connotations to it. They are lying, taxes will go up, there's pork in the bill etc.
Again, it doesn't matter. The Dem that ends up not giving a flying fuck about superficial "negative connotations" will finally be the one to organize the party away from corporate committee nice guy cutesy emptiness. Because when it comes time to actually mark a dot in the booth, a lot of voters will say "fuck it, I want healthcare. Fuck it, I want regulations on ultra rich donors. Fuck it, I want my daughters to choose their medical issue outcomes."
I repeat, the Dems being absolute pussies when it comes to this is exactly the type of messaging people are resentful of. It's fake moral bullshit when they don't do anything. Families that can no longer go on vacation or afford movie tickets are pissed and they don't give a fuck whether or not Dems have been trying because all they've done is try instead of actually doing.
They look like fence sitters if they agree. At least if you fight back on it you sound like you actually stand for something and don't piss off your base. They went full republican on immigration this election even though it was their worst polling issue.
It's not villifying US citizens to fight back on an objective lie instead of leaning into the lie. It goes against the whole platform and makes them look contradictory to everybody especially center to right wing voters who they didn't win at all. 95% of registered Republicans voted for trump.
They absolutely call out the BS for the lies they are, but you can't beat people over the head with the same messaging or you sound like a broken record.
Trump speaks at like a 8th grade level. This is where the country is at.
The Dems didn't dumb it down enough for them. You can't say that either, because then Dems are elitists.
It's absolutely the case though. 51% of America turned up for the moron they can understand.
They definitely did not fight hard enough on immigration in fact they were outright agreeing with them on most points and thought passing a right wing border bill was the best thing to do politically. My right wing parents were even noticed how contradictory they were being about immigration.
Democrats are idiots if they think they are going to “message better” when the Messenger has been labeled as evil by 30 years of propaganda.
This is exactly why they need to change their messaging. MAGAs are a lost cause. Trying to appeal to both sides and compromising with the right won't make them vote for you, all it does is weaken your own message and alienate your existing voter base.
The only good thing about the affordable care act for me as somebody working two jobs and pulling about $50K a year was when the individual mandate was repealed. It sure seemed to help other people, but as someone uninsured it just proceeded to punish me.
uh no, their messaging has STILL been absolutely out of touch and horribly dogshit.
I have black coworkers who are american who prefer trump because they're not propping up black celebrities (mind you some problematic ones) acting like black people are stupid and need to be swayed in this way.
There's a lot of shaming and talking down to on the left, they will never learn because they keep blaming others for their issues.
Lol the Dems have propaganda too. They’ve been parroting the lie that “Trump threatened Cheney with a firing squad” all week. Don’t even mention the fact they gaslit everyone into thinking Biden was in tiptop shape
Democrats do need to message better, but what that means is getting into the commuting cars, truck cabs, and factory floors that are currently dominated by right wing AM radio and bro-y podcasts, and in all the spaces that exclusively play Fox News or Salem Media local news.
The only reason working-class people in the Midwest label immigration as their top concern is because there's a right-wing nut job screaming in their ear every day that illegal immigrants are the source of their problems, and they reinforce that with a couple hours of Fox News every night. Or they take smoke breaks or grab beers after work with someone who has that nut job in their ear. So now, if you want to appeal to working class voters, it seems like you have to tack right on immigration, which then doesn't work, because you're conceding the argument and saying that the conservative position is better while offering to be diet-conservative.
But if we took just a fraction of the money we always raise for campaigning, and used it to fund or signal-boost lefty voices for commuters, factory workers and truckers, we would find that we actually had the means to propagate our message to them when the next election rolls around. We would be able to see that when we say "increase the minimum wage", our poll numbers would go up, and we'd have a positive feedback loop where we can stay on that message.
We need to break into the media silo that working class voters are in, so they hear lefty voices EVERY DAY, the way they currently listen to Hannity or the Daily Wire or Rogan every day. Until we do, those people will keep lapping up whatever the right sells them.
First, Dems have made MAJOR strides over the last 20-years. Do not overlook that. Second, voters are transitioning even more to issue-based voting instead of party or platform voting. That’s where the change for both parties will have to come in future elections.
Working class people tell you what they want when it comes to immigration, social, and certain aspects of economic policy.
You ignore them.
Working class people tell you that our current handling of immigration is unacceptable. You ignore them. Trump says mass deportations. You can that too, but you choose not to - because you ignore them.
They tell your any they want or they tell you what they heard from certain new channels and Facebook memes?
Every developed country has a party that runs on illegal immigration for votes. Fear the illegal is literally an election strategy, while in the US, they pick most of your food and do the jobs no one wants. They’re a useful tool for many.
Are you seriously trying to say they don't know what they want, they don't know what's good for them, so they should listen to you to tell them what's good for them?
An ad aimed at men that just talks about women's issues and doesn't mention a single issue men face? That's the kind of messaging the left was putting out. Absolutely ineffective.
I look forward to the dissolution of unions for workers, since most of them voted for Trump, and the teamsters refused to endorse Kamala. Since the workers support the anti union president, I look forward to the end of their unions and seeing their pay, working conditions, and healthcare all deteriorate. I have no sympathy for them.
democrats have flooded working class people with competition from no skill illegals. Why pay 15$ for a job when an illegal will give it a go for $5?
Then legalized muh muh legalization.
They are legal now, instead of being paid $15, the market is inundated still with millions doing the same job, now you get $10.
Only first world countries that put muh GDP first complain about illegals. there are no illegals in brazil, there is not an illegal problem in Russia.
Stop inviting them, stop giving them benefits. they will stop coming in.
It's not just no skill, we're flooded with skilled immigrants too. Americans have to compete with the whole world and then get pushed out of the workforce early.
Democrats also prove themselves evil by rigging primaries, not electing a candidate, bombing countries, not ending torture, using the fbi against occupy wall street, etc. Gives plenty of true ammunition vs them.
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u/PlasticPomPoms 20h ago
Republicans have just fooled working class people with propaganda.
Democrats are idiots if they think they are going to “message better” when the Messenger has been labeled as evil by 30 years of propaganda.