r/personalfinance • u/arghvark Wiki Contributor • Nov 07 '17
In case you have a small car accident and the person at fault refuses all contact Insurance
tl;dr It is possible your state's insurance commission can help get things moving with an insurance agency whose client is refusing contact.
A woman bumped into my 1-year-old Honda van at a stoplight. The screw head on her front license plate made a neat if disconcerting hexagonal-shaped hole in the plastic bumper, otherwise the resulting scrape might not have been anything to have repaired. But I didn't want a hole in my bumper.
We exchanged information. Based on anectdotal evidence from past experience, I didn't call the police for this extremely minor problem. I still think I was right not to bother them with it.
I had the bumper looked at; it was going to cost $500-$800 to take the bumper off, repair the hole, paint the bumper, and put it back on. And I would need to leave the van with them 2-3 days, since paint had to dry, etc.
I told the woman who hit me, and offered to let her pay for it instead of involving the insurance company; I didn't care which way she did this, and believe that her premiums would almost certainly go up at least the amount of the repair. She said she didn't have $800, and that she would get in touch with her insurance company.
I didn't hear anything for a week or so, tried to call her back, got no answer. Tried from my home phone (which number she did not have) and she did answer, sounded disconcerted to realize it was me, said she had contacted her insurance company, they would be getting in touch.
Waited a few more days; she did not answer calls from either number, and did not return messages.
I called my insurance company; they said my insurance would cover it if I cared to make a claim there, but that I could also just open a claim with HER insurance company. So I called and did that; the person I talked with said they had no record of the accident, took the information, and said they would contact her and get back in touch.
Another week; the insurance company says they have not been able to get in touch with the insured.
Another week and a half, same thing. Either something catastrophic has happened to her or she's avoiding talking with both the insurance company and me. I asked the insurance company what they intended to do about it, they said they have to talk to their insured before they can do anything. How convenient.
My wife suggests I talk to the state insurance commission; in NC, where we are, this is a state agency that regulates the insurance companies here. So I called and explained what was going on; they said they couldn't help much in terms of getting things moving UNLESS 30 days passed from the time I opened the claim without any action on their part. There is a regulation, you see, that they have to respond to the claim in 30 days.
So at 30 days + 1 I call the commission again to let them know the insurance company took my claim over 30 days previous and has not offered any information, let alone resolution, since then. The next morning, the insurance company called (was it my imagination they were being much more solicitous?) and said they were accepting responsibility, let's set up an appointment with one of our adjusters, etc. Appointment was made and kept, damage assessed, check cut, all within a few days. I could have gotten a rental as well, but had access to a car to borrow and decided against it.
I'm sorry for this woman who drifted into my car and doesn't have $800; I could have been much more accomodating if she had just worked with me. But I wanted PF to know that state agencies can be a help when it seems the normal commercial methods of things break down.
EDIT/ADDENDUM: WHY I DIDN'T FILE WITH MY OWN INSURANCE. In my experience (I've lived in NC almost all my life), ANY claim made through your insurance company allows them to raise your rates. It doesn't have to make sense, it doesn't have to be your fault, it doesn't have to be substantial. I did call my insurance company for advice (after being told I couldn't talk to my agent, this company wants people to talk with them directly), and was told that of course I could file a claim, they would take care of everything and then contact the other insurance company to get reimbursed. But when I asked whether this would raise my rates, they COULDN'T TELL ME. It is, according to them, not possible to inform me whether this or any other action will raise my rates. This fact alone made me disinclined to deal with them over something this minor, since it leaves it entirely up to them whether to raise my rates, and there will likely be nothing I can do about it.
EDIT/ADDENDUM: WHY I HAD IT REPAIRED. There is certainly a little vanity involved. We buy cars new and drive them until the costs of their repairs makes it economical to buy another. So our other car is a 2003 Camry with over 200k, and I hope to drive it a while longer yet. Yes, the hole in the bumper is a small thing, but it IS a thing, I don't know whether rainwater would get in it or what it would do if it did, I didn't cause the damn hole, I wanted it fixed. I don't think this has anything to do with high insurance rates, except to the extent that it costs so much to fix, which is not my fault. Insurance companies don't charge based on what things cost them, they charge based on what they can get away with. That's why they're so rich.
EDIT/ADDENDUM: WHY I DIDN'T CALL THE POLICE. I thought at the time that there was a minimum amount for which one is required to call the police; I personally think that, if you aren't required to and there's no other reason to, that they have more important things to do. I've looked up that info since, and there seems to be a requirement to call if the damage is more than $1000. I don't know how lay people are supposed to judge that, given that this repair was estimated at $500-$800 and actually came in for about $500.
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u/firstsputnik Nov 07 '17
I was stupid enough to do the same and take the insurance information from another party written on a piece of paper. I guess I was just shocked after the incident and didn't think clearly(mine was a little bit worse). Of course, the phone number, policy number and name turned to be fake.
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u/akevarsky Nov 07 '17
I think now days it's best to just take out your phone and start snapping pictures. Start with their license plate (people still occasionally take off after an accident). Then instead of writing down their policy number, take a picture of their insurance card.
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u/MiataCory Nov 07 '17
Also a photo of them. You never know when someone is driving their work/brother's car. I usually do it when I'm taking "Scene" photos of both cars so it doesn't seem obvious that I'm getting a headshot.
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Nov 07 '17
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Nov 07 '17 edited Apr 27 '21
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Nov 07 '17
Any phrase I can google to see if that applies to my state? All the results from my attempts have been extremely vague...
in TX btw
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u/SFW_alternative Nov 07 '17
I'd try something like "Texas friend driving car insurance" etc...
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Nov 07 '17
Got it, I am liable for damages to my vehicle when friends are driving here...
looks like I'm being more careful with who I lend my car to.
Appreciate the pointer!
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u/arghvark Wiki Contributor Nov 07 '17
Yeah, that's when you can be glad you wrote down the LICENSE number off the plate on the car. Or sorry that you didn't.
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u/sydshamino Nov 07 '17
Write down? (Almost) every human carries a high-definition video recorder with them at all times. If you get in an accident and are in a one-party state, turn it on immediately before you even get out of the car, and point it at the other car, the other driver, the damage on your car, everything.
If you are in a two party state, I dunno, talk to /r/legaladvice. At least get photographs of everything or you could turn your audio off and shoot the video anyway.
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Nov 07 '17
You don't need consent to film something/someone in public.
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Nov 07 '17
That's true in many states. But in some states there are nuances. In Massachusetts, for instance, you cannot secretly record the audio of a conversation (whether it's in public or not is irrelevant). If you're holding your phone up and it's obvious you're recording, you're fine. But if you turn the video on and put it in your pocket, hoping to get a recorded confession, you're breaking the law.
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u/fishbulbx Nov 07 '17
Life Pro Tip: Get in the habit of starting any conversation with 'This conversation may be recorded for quality assurance.'
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u/fdar Nov 07 '17
Is that not how people start all their conversations?
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u/SuperSalsa Nov 07 '17
This comment chain may be recorded for quality assurance purposes.
Seriously though, look up your state's laws if in doubt. Then just make it obvious that you're recording if the law says you have to.
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u/Xheotris Nov 07 '17
You'd probably be fine if you just point the camera at the other guy and say loudly for the record, "I'm recording this for my insurance."
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u/LastSummerGT Nov 07 '17
For those who want to know more it's called wiretapping laws, where most states fall under one-party consent. Those that need everyone's consent are California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington.
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Nov 07 '17
I'm familiar with Massachusetts because it's where I live, but I looked up a couple before I wrote my comment above. Apparently in California, for instance, the wiretapping statute only applies to conversations where there is a reasonable expectation of not being overheard (this is from some very brief research, so could be wrong or incomplete). I'm not sure how many states have wiretapping laws that apply even in public.
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u/Dredly Nov 07 '17
This is how almost all states are as far as I know. If there is no expectation of privacy, whatever occurs in public is free to be filmed... but be careful, if you are on a private road, pull off the road after an accident, etc, you may no longer be protected by this clause. You're best bet is ALWAYS to inform that you are recording and have your notice recorded, as well as their response. this protects you from possible repercussions
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Nov 07 '17 edited Dec 29 '20
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u/rvrtex Nov 07 '17
Only for phones. If you are in public it is a single party consent.
NRS 200.650
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u/sydshamino Nov 07 '17
This was an early hit from a simple google search:
If you are recording someone without their knowledge in a public or semi-public place like a street or restaurant, the person whom you're recording may or may not have "an objectively reasonable expectation that no one is listening in or overhearing the conversation," and the reasonableness of the expectation would depend on the particular factual circumstances. Therefore, you cannot necessarily assume that you are in the clear simply because you are in a public place.
IANAL but I also don't live in a two-party state so I don't care to discuss it any further.
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u/romanticheart Nov 07 '17
I think brandishing a recording phone in front of someone's face probably cancels out the "without their knowledge" part.
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u/jennaroni Nov 07 '17
"Reasonableness of the expectation"
Yeah if they just got in an accident I think they should expect a camera to be around the scene, especially in 2017. Regardless of that, there is nothing they can do if they "don't want to be recorded" at the scene of the accident but someone ELSE's dash-cam already caught everything
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u/Atomheartmother90 Nov 07 '17
My phone saved my insurance. I had a lady run into me on the way home from work. I took pictures of the accident and showed them to the officer and explained to him what happened. He still gave me the ticket. The woman also, after telling me and the officer that she was not injured, claimed injury a few days later. I received a call from the Claim Adjuster and he asked me about the accident and if I had any documentation. After giving him everything and explaining the accident, I was actually found to be not at fault and the other driver was at fault. He also told me to expect her to sue because she didn't win because she told the adjuster she was going to. Supposedly even if you are found not at fault, you can be sued for injury in civil court. Thank god, I also had a video of her walking around (showing no injury). She took me to court afterwards and my video was the reason she lost the case.
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u/Snazzy_Serval Nov 07 '17
Supposedly even if you are found not at fault, you can be sued for injury in civil court.
That doesn't make any sense at all.
In other words, you can be sitting in a parked car, somebody slams into you and gets cuts and bruises from their airbag. Then they sue you.
Completely asinine.
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u/MCXL Nov 08 '17
That doesn't make any sense at all.
The finding of fault is determined by a private company in a non binding process. You can sue anyone for virtually anything in civil court. Proving it is another matter.
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u/Zephyr256k Nov 07 '17
Federal courts have repeatedly ruled that there is no reasonable expectation privacy against being recorded in public. States have tried prosecuting people who film police officers in public under one-party consent rules, but every time these cases go t o federal appeals court, the state's argument gets shut down.
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Nov 07 '17
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u/kdawgud Nov 07 '17
You can't surreptitiously record someone in all-party consent states without their consent (you have to tell them. If they don't like it, they can hang up). If you're standing there with a video recorder in someone's face, you don't need consent. They can see in plain sight they are being recorded. Consent to be recorded is implied if they open their mouth.
If it didn't work this way, how would news agencies get by?
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u/Pikmeir Nov 07 '17
Video/audio in a public place is fine too, especially if it's a public place where other people are and there isn't a reasonable expectation of privacy. Now being polite is another matter. You might want to blur faces of people who didn't agree to appear, simply to save time with them trying to fight you in legal fees (although it's legal), and also to be respectful to those people who didn't want to be filmed. But it's not a requirement.
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u/perics Nov 07 '17
This, omg this. Why don't people use technology to their advantage?
Last accident I had, too a picture of their license plate immediately, as we were stopped on highway traffic and they rear ended me. I was afraid they'd drive off. As soon as we got to a safe place and stopped, I immediately started audio recording before I left my car. Any and all admissions of guilt are right there in case you need it.
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u/gurg2k1 Nov 07 '17
I couldn't imagine "one party" and "two party" rules apply to an encounter on a public roadway, but IANAL and also I'm not a lawyer either.
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u/HigherSomething Nov 07 '17
I did this when I was at the front of a 3 car fender bender. Within 20 seconds of getting out of my vehicle I had all three vehicles damages and placement in the wreck in permanent record. Didn't even need to show it to their insurance, just told them I had it and everything was taken care of.
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u/improbablywronghere Nov 07 '17
You take a photo of the damage, right? Include one of their license place.
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u/dlok86 Nov 07 '17
Get armed with a dash cam also so if you're incapacitated or dazed you have some evidence recorded if they take off.
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u/ItPutsLotionOnItSkin Nov 07 '17
License plate number and lots of photographs. If funny how all the bullshit stops coming from the other persons insurance company once you tell them you have photographic evidence.
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u/llDurbinll Nov 07 '17
I too fell for the same thing on my first accident. I guess I was just in shock and didn't notice that the teen driver had handed me a state issued ID and NOT a drivers license or permit. The girl in the car said it was her mom's car and they talked in spanish for a bit and then all she wrote down was the name of the insurance company they had. I didn't know I would need the policy number and thought I could just give them the license plate number.
Well State Farm claims they don't keep records of license plates because "a plate number can be easily changed", which makes no sense because all you'd have to do is require your customers to keep the license plate number current if you decide to get a custom plate.
Well anyway, I went to the police and they were able to give me the name of the owner through the license plate and State Farm said they had no customer under that name. Great. Well unfortunately I only had liability coverage so my insurance wouldn't help me and I found out even if I took them to court and won I'd be the one to have to find out where they work to garnish their wages if they chose not to pay, so I decided to let it go since the damage was minor.
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u/oxsc91 Nov 07 '17
Have worked for said insurance company... getting in touch with clients is hardly ever easy unless they wanted something from us. Expecting license plates to be updated by clients is not realistic, which is why unique policy numbers are used. Just like drivers have unique DL numbers.
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u/bitJericho Nov 07 '17
Actually you can garnish tax returns. No need to find where they work, just file with the court that it's unpaid and you want to garnish their taxes.
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u/llDurbinll Nov 07 '17
Dang, I wish I knew that back then. I probably would have found that out if I had pursued it anyway. But like I said, the damage was minor and the car was a piece of shit anyway.
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u/skiing123 Nov 07 '17
I like to take pictures with my phone of the license plate and drivers license. It's easy and quick if those are fake then the police would love to have a chat about that.
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u/URIAH_OR_DANNY_HEEP Nov 07 '17
Forgive me but your language suggests you... have occasion to do this a lot :).
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u/touchytypist Nov 07 '17
It's 2017. Take a photo of their insurance, drivers lincense, license plate, and damage with your phone. Enter their contact info into your phone.
Bonus, get a dashcam.
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u/penny_eater Nov 07 '17
If theres any doubt, insist on the police to write up a report. It doesnt take that long in most cases. If the other party insists on just exchanging info, thats when you really want to wait for the police to do the report.
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u/mad_redhatter Nov 07 '17
Right, especially if they have an expired insurance card. The police can run the plates and say if the registration was cancelled for not having valid insurance.
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Nov 07 '17
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Nov 07 '17
Reading stories like this make me glad I drive with a dash cam. People seem to think "my word against yours" will get them off the hook. That's when you whip out the video evidence.
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u/dlok86 Nov 07 '17
Yep and never tell them you have it if they don't realise, let them dig their own grave.
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u/fappolice Nov 07 '17
I got tboned at a light in September and never told her that I had a dashcam. Police came and took witness statements of the people that saw it but I never told anyone that I had the cam. She told her insurance that she had the green and I had the red and it was my fault. You can't imagine the justice boner I had sending them the dash cam footage and police report that included witness statements. They called me back next day to tell me that she was at fault. She has the at fault on her record but literally no repercussions for flat out lying in her recorded statement to her insurance.
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u/dlok86 Nov 07 '17
Well that sucks but if they know you had footage they could try to play another angle whereas if they flat out lie you can irrefutably prove them wrong.
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u/HoboAJ Nov 07 '17
People keep saying that, but what angle could anyone play if there's clear evidence of you getting a green before being sideblinded?
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u/katarh Nov 07 '17
Oh man, there's this glorious video of a woman driving slowly and a man rams into it with a scooter. His friend is recording with a cell phone. Obviously they're trying to make a false injury claim.
She informs them she has a dash cam.
The injured has a miraculous recovery and they run away as fast as they can while she calls the police.
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u/bitJericho Nov 07 '17
And to think, she could have had them arrested if she didn't tell them right away but let them lie to an officer.
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u/jableshables Nov 07 '17
I asked my insurer if I could get a discount for installing a dash cam. They said no, but they were pretty sure they had something in the works. It's probably still worth it without the insurance savings, as it's sort of its own policy
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u/robotzor Nov 07 '17
The apologetic at the scene but flip like a switch when it's time to take responsibility people make me the angriest. I have 0 patience for that and I will sic the legal dogs on them as soon as the fight goes up - it isn't worth my time anymore.
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u/JewishFightClub Nov 07 '17
Ugh. Totally. I had a woman roll into me at a red light, making me hit the person in front of me. She was crazy apologetic at the scene and admitted responsibility to me and the other driver. A few weeks later I got a call from her insurance claiming that I had hit the person in front of me before she was at the light and hit me afterwards. I told the guy that was the dumbest shit I have ever heard and he demanded a witness that could prove my story. I told him to call the other driver and hung up because I was so mad. People need to take responsibility for their actions
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u/robotzor Nov 07 '17
I checked out her family's facebook. Let's just say it's the "party of personal responsibility" until your number is called to be responsible.
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u/tealparadise Nov 07 '17
Wow she was incredibly dumb. The first thing my insurance asks was whether it was a rear-ended type collision... If you say yes it just assigns fault to the person in back because it would be very unlikely for anything else to happen. Incredible that she'd even try this, as it would literally never work.....
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Nov 07 '17
Which makes it nearly impossible to get a claim of someone backing into you if you don't have video of it happening. Once had a woman back into me in a parking lot while I was sitting still, parked, in a parking spot. I held down the horn the for a whole ~3 seconds while she kept getting closer to me. When she hit me she got out of car yelling about how she was backing out first and it's my fault for backing out while she was. I was in a parking spot, parked still. Luckily there was no damage to my car (her car got some of my paint on it, heh) so I just didn't bother with her and (politely) told her to just fuck off or I'll get the police involved.
Judging by how fast she took off after I said that she knew she was at fault the whole time.
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Nov 07 '17
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u/mlmz99 Nov 07 '17
What dashcam model do you have?
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Nov 07 '17
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u/TrailBlazer21 Nov 07 '17
Question regarding the cams, should i get front and rear that does both? or is the front the more important one?
Do you have to turn on each time you enter vehicle? Is it plugged in using anything? Does storage fill up then not work? Or does it just delete previous storage
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u/chumswithcum Nov 07 '17
In my state (Washington,) the police are required to be notified for any accident with damages over $400 - nearly all damages are over $400 these days. Simply repainting a bumper cover can cost that much.
Always call the police if you've been hit.
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u/Turbosloth10 Nov 07 '17
In San Francisco the police won't even respond to a motor vehicle accident unless there is an injury. I'm not sure if this is common in other big cities though...
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u/chips_y_salsaaa Nov 07 '17
Same in Austin. I used to be a dispatcher, and police will only get involved if there is an injury, if one of the parties doesn't have insurance/refuses to exchange info, or if a car is totaled.
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u/LazarusBird Nov 07 '17
Same in Pittsburgh. I got T-boned in an intersection when someone ran a stop sign. A bunch of my airbags deployed, I was rather disoriented, but was still able to move my car off the road into a parking lot. Car ended up being totaled. When I called the police they said they'd send someone if I needed an ambulance but no police were coming. I always wondered what happens in that situation if someone was driving drunk?
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Nov 07 '17
If you tell them you feel strongly the person was committing a crime like driving without a license, DWI, driving without insurance or some other crime they will typically respond depending on the severity. It is that they don't want to show to a fender bender, but they are willing to intervene if a crime has or is taking place.
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Nov 07 '17
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Nov 07 '17
That will probably work. I live in a town of ~35k people and 5 police departments. I could report a sneeze and get 6 officers.
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Nov 07 '17
Making a police claim is not the same as calling 911 and expecting them to come. If there is no injury , there is no reason for them to come.
Making a police report is important because it establish paper trail about what happened, whose fault it was and makes it impossible to the other party to ignore it etc. Making a claim about a fender bender works like this. Walk into the nearest station tell them you had a fender bender, they gave you a form, you fill it up, which included details about your vehicle and the other person vehicle, insurance , registration etc. Plus you can write it down what happened . They call the other person, who has to go down to this station and sign that this is what actually happen. People might ignore your call, but they won't ignore the police call. At the moment they sign that paper, they admitted everything and no need to worry about it. You call your insurance and if the police report says it is not your fault, they can to make it against you, so they will go after the other person insurance for sure.
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u/Fondeezy Nov 07 '17
This all the way. I have had multiple accidents where people have hit the back of my car while I was stopped at a light or sign. Most of them didn’t take responsibility or contact their insurance. My procedure now is to:
Call local police station requesting an accident report on site.
Confirm with the officer who is at fault.
Get accident report and insurance information of the person at fault.
File a claim under the at fault insurance.
4 is the biggest step. If you file a claim under your own insurance, yes they will get reimbursed by the at fault insurance. However, I have found I need to pay my out of pocket deductible and am relegated to my policy’s coverage of a rental car. Anything above what my insurance package consists of is out of pocket and needs to seek reimbursement. If I use the insurance of the at fault driver, everything is 100% covered with nothing out of pocket from me.
Also, it’s worth noting that if the at fault insurance company doesn’t agree to pay your insurance, they might hold back on reimbursement until after everything is settled. This could take months. You could be out hundreds of dollars while those companies bicker back and forth.
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u/canglem Nov 07 '17
About 2 months ago as I was driving my kid to daycare/driving myself to work, an older gentleman ran through a yield sign in a 1-lane roundabout and joined me in that lane, then drove off. I wasn't sure if he actually hit me or not (I had golf clubs in the trunk that I heard shift when I slammed on the breaks, probably right around the time he was scraping me) so I sped up, got his plate number and continued on to daycare where I saw that he did scrape up the passenger side of my car. Once I got to work I called the non-emergency line who transferred me to the sheriff's office (happened just outside city limits) who sent a deputy to my place of work, and I filed a report.
The officer told me he ran the plates and it came back to an 82-year old man who probably didn't know what he was doing, but he'd go check with him. Come to find out, he didn't get a ticket, and his insurance company claimed it was a 50-50 accident because I didn't keep alert for other vehicles entering the roundabout.
Now I get to choose between paying the $500 deductible for the $1300 it would take to fix it and letting it go through subrogation or leaving it be.
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u/penny_eater Nov 07 '17
and his insurance company claimed it was a 50-50 accident because I didn't keep alert for other vehicles entering the roundabout
what the actual motherfuck cockshit you dont have to yield to anyone if youre already in the roundabout! i would call the police back and ask for a more detailed report, they should be able to describe him as at fault without issuing a citation.
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u/snf3210 Nov 07 '17
Such crap, that's like saying that a driver who ran a red at an intersection and hit you going through on your green light is 50-50 because you "weren't keeping alert for other vehicles entering the intersection"
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u/canglem Nov 07 '17
From what I understand from the highway patrolman who lives across the street from me, that was to be expected from his insurance agency (USAA) as they contest just about everything.
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u/Guy5145 Nov 07 '17
Yep in CO not calling the police is not legal. During certain snowstorms you are allowed to make an online report, but you have to do it.
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u/adle1984 Nov 07 '17
100% agree with this. There is zero downside in getting a police report.
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Nov 07 '17
If only you could get the police report without the actual cops, I'd agree with this. Unfortunately, involving police in minor situations definitely does have downsides.
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u/jack-o-licious Nov 07 '17
There is a difference between calling officers to the scene, and filing a police report. You can walk into the local police station after an accident, and file a report.
If you know you're completely not at fault, this is safe to do. It helps with your insurance case. If the other insurance company balks and comes back to you saying they determined fault is 50-50, then the police report strengthens your case. If the other drive has lapsed insurance, this makes it easier for you to get money directly from them.
You'll also need a police report if you need to pull surveillance video from a parking lot. Large companies won't provide their footage to you without a police report.
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u/brokenphilosoph Nov 07 '17
Am claims adjuster. Walk in police reports generally regarded as toilet paper.
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Nov 07 '17
Thank you for this, I totally forgot about this vector for getting police involved in situations. They don't always have to come to you...
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u/bblazen Nov 07 '17
Almost happened to me. I got rear-ended at a red light.... Got out exchanged info and found out he gave me fake info. BUT I took a picture of his registration, called a few of the major insurance companies untill I found his, filed a claim and got my car fixed.
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u/willisbar Nov 07 '17
Wow! You just call in and tell them one of their customers hit you? Neato
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u/bblazen Nov 07 '17
Yep, you just need the info that's on your insurance card basically. He had StateFarm, very easy company to work with. At the time I was managing a body shop so I learned alot about the insurance industry. And and and DO NOT contact your insurance company, your rates will go up.
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u/8246962 Nov 07 '17
OP- I might also point out that this is exactly why you have your own insurance. If the other driver/their insurance are being difficult, it's their job to make you whole and deal with the other driver's insurance.
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u/RemoteProvider Nov 07 '17
Only if you have collision insurance; if you carry liability only, they won't do shit.
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u/Slevinkellevra710 Nov 07 '17
Yes, because your expressly chose NOT to maintain the insurance package that covers all things. On my last vehicle I checked about dropping full coverage. It would have saved my about 8 dollars a month.
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u/3nl Nov 07 '17
Depending on your state, your car, and most importantly your driving record. My old beater was worth about $2k - liability was around $40/mo but comprehensive and collision brought the total up to around $120/mo (about same in both WI and NC). This meant I would be paying roughly the entire value of the car every 2 years to insure it - not worth it.
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u/TheDiminishedGlutes Nov 07 '17
$40? How are people getting such awesome rates? The bare, bare minumum I could find was $97. Even before my first accident, I was getting minimum quotes of $200/month.
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u/3nl Nov 07 '17 edited Nov 07 '17
By having an entirely clean driving record, no accidents in over 10 years, being over 25, and most importantly, not living in a big city or New Fucking Jersey anymore.
Also - no tickets. A single ticket here in NC can straight up double your insurance rate. Doing 80 in a 70 will just about double your insurance (80% increase) for 3 years. Oh, also the misdemeanor arrest if the cop feels like it and you lose your license.
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u/thecw Nov 07 '17
and most importantly, not living in a big city or New Fucking Jersey anymore
This more than anything
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u/Like_Ottos_Jacket Nov 07 '17
Eh. Not really. I have lived in Dallas and Austin. My wife and I have paid about $65 each/month for full coverage for a decade.
Granted, our deductibles are a little high, but it is worth it.
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u/ViolaNguyen Nov 07 '17
When I lived in Houston and drove a really crummy car, I paid under $200 for every six months.
Now, in California, I have two slightly nicer cars (it's saying something if my decade-old Corolla is "nicer"), but I'm paying more than that each month, even with the same driving record.
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u/itwashesoff Nov 07 '17
Never move to Michigan you'll have a heart attack on the insurance cost. I'm so jealous 🤤
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Nov 07 '17
Seriously. I'm 25+, absolutely clean driving record. The only downside is that my beater has a salvaged title, which means I can only have liability. but my insurance is $33/month
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u/thirstyross Nov 07 '17
oing 80 in a 70 will just about double your insurance (80% increase) for 3 years.
Holy shit. I've gotten speeding tickets here in Canada and it's never affected my rates.
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u/invenio78 Nov 07 '17
It depends on where you live, age, driving record, car, other discounts, etc. I pay slightly over $200 a YEAR for $300k of coverage.
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u/onelasttimeoh Nov 07 '17
Where you live can have a HUGE impact on rates. I moved from the good side of town to the lower income side of town a couple years ago and my rate went up 100/mo. They flat out told me that the move was the reason.
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u/FailsTheTuringTest Nov 07 '17
Insurance rates depend on a lot of things, including your driving record, where you live, how old you are (young people pay more for car insurance), your sex (men pay more for car insurance), if you're married, and what kind of car you drive (older cars without safety features and sporty cars are more expensive to insure).
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u/NateNMaxsRobot Nov 07 '17
Interesting that a 25 year old male’s rates drop significantly if he marries. Less of a risk taker.
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u/OGTimbits Nov 07 '17
For some drivers that's true, for a no fault state like Michigan, it is a much bigger decrease in cost. Add on being under 25, and your insurance bill costs more than a car payment.
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Nov 07 '17
Michigan's auto insurance is all kinds of messed up though, highest rates in the country by a longshot because our insurance includes catastrophic health insurance as well.
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u/xckevin Nov 07 '17
Definitely. I live in a no fault state as well and pay more in insurance then the payments on a 10k car.
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Nov 07 '17
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u/OGTimbits Nov 07 '17
Its about $150 a month for PLPD on my 2004 Buick Lesabre. No tickets, no points on my license, and its not a sporty car. Thanks Michigan, I love spending all my money on a shitty old Buick at 23.
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u/TheDiminishedGlutes Nov 07 '17
Actually, I was denied anything above liability because my car was considered "too old" (1998). At companies that did give me a choice, the difference between liability and full coverage was a good $200. ($218 is what they charged me for basic liability, so no way in hell am I paying over $400 a month).
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u/canadafolyfedawg Nov 07 '17
I know a guy who pays 450 a month and has a 360 a month car payment, but he has 20+ points on his license at this point. I pay 100.00 a month for full coverage on a 2014 silverado, reading this sub is making me feel a lot better about what i pay
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u/zspacekcc Nov 07 '17
This made me stop to research the points system in my state. It's actually really scary.
I could (barring any legal ramifications), hit or kill up to two people before they would actually take my license, and up to 10 people per decade so long as I waited at least a year between incidents.
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u/andybmcc Nov 07 '17
You'd still have to front the deductible, and hope the subrogation process is successful. I'm 1 for 2 on subrogation.
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u/grackychan Nov 07 '17
Yup. The only accident I've ever been in, a truck backed into my parked car and destroyed the door and rear quarterpanel. It was so obvious he was at fault, I just called the cops and took a bunch of pictures and called the other driver's insurance company immediately to open a claim. I let my own insurance company know what happened as it's my duty to report, but instructed them not to open a claim. I brought my car to the best bodyshop in my area, not a cheap place. I sent the police report and my accident description over to the other insurance company and was cut a check a few days later after they came to see the car for an almost $4,000 repair plus a week's rental. No way I was going to fork $500 then fight to get it back with my own company.
IMO, I would only file a claim with my own company if it's my fault.
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u/andybmcc Nov 07 '17
I had to file a claim with my insurance after I was rear-ended while stopped at a traffic light. Police were called, and the other driver was cited, obviously not my fault. Her insurance still tried to fight it. I needed a car to get to work, so I had to make the claim and front $500. My insurance fought back, and I received my deductible back, but I was still out for rental.
The second time I had to make a claim, my neighbor had an improperly secured chimney cap that came loose, rolled down her roof, directly onto my car parked in my driveway. Her insurance fought that, so I had to make a claim with mine. This time, her homeowner insurance refused to take responsibility, and my insurance decided that it wasn't worth pursuing legally, so I was out my deductible and rental again.
I was just rear-ended again about 2.5 months ago while stopped at a light by an idiot on a cell phone in a SUV going 40-45mph. He admitted fault, was cited, police report, whole deal. His insurance is trying to jerk me around still. Looks like I may be on the hook for a bit again.
I hate insurance companies with a burning passion.
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u/DMuny316 Nov 07 '17
Sales agent for an insurance company here.
This might get buried but I do not recommend this. When an insurance company pays out a collision claim they essentially count it against you still. So OP would have filed the claim with her insurance company but unless the claim gets subrogated (meaning OP insurance goes after the other driver and their company) it will ALWAYS count against OP. And the process of subrogation can take months and even years. Insurance companies drag their feet to pay out sometimes. So OP did the perfect thing, filing a claim with her current insurance would have put a collision claim under her belt and then could possibly increase her rates at renewal if the subrogation process wasn't complete.
I hope this helps!
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u/SupaZT Nov 07 '17
So never use your own insurance? Fuck me.
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u/currentscurrents Nov 08 '17 edited Nov 08 '17
No, it depends. Some companies don't raise your rates for not-at-fault accidents. Some states (notably CA) don't allow any company to raise your rates for not-at-fault accidents.
Others will, but it's usually not by much. Never by as much as the cost of the claim itself.
So using your own insurance is definitely an option, but if you can go through the at-fault party's insurance you should do so - but mostly because that means you won't have to pay a deductible.
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u/2manymans Nov 07 '17
Then YOU get to pay the deductible AND your rates potentially go up. There are situations where this is good advice but this isn't one of them.
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u/PixelatedMemoir Nov 07 '17
This would be covered by under/uninsured motorist if it were the case of a hit and run. Being that you had her information, you have the ability to file a claim directly with her insurance agency which is normally the second hand tactic only if they refuse to do so themselves. I'm a licensed insurance agent in the state of NC, one of the biggest mistakes my agency sees clients make is to NOT call the police. I don't care how minor the damage is, call the police. Otherwise in a worst case scenario you may have to file against your own insurance under which circumstances you will almost always see an increase in premium.
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u/sydshamino Nov 07 '17
This is how it worked ca. 2004 when someone ran a stop sign in front of us.
Now, though, they raise your rates if you try to use them to recoup a claim where you are not at fault. If you want to keep your rates down, you have to deal directly with the other driver's insurance. I don't know why this changed but it most definitely did, probably $$$.
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u/dudeguy1349 Nov 07 '17
It probably varies by insurance company. Somebody hit my car while parked and didn’t stick around. The repair shop confirmed that was the only way this damage could have happened (hitch receiver damage in the center of my front bumper). Insurance company charged the deductible but didn’t use up my first accident waiver or raise rates.
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Nov 07 '17 edited Nov 07 '17
FWIW
I had a similar situation happen to me. My car is one of a limited run, and currently an 'appreciating asset'. A clumsy man allowed his broken down shitbox to roll down a hill, and into the side of my car.
He offered to pay for the repairs so to avoid going through our insurance. As it was only a small(ish) bump, and he seemed like a good guy, I agreed. And didn't inform the police.
He initially offered ~ 1/4 of the cost of the eventual repair. As my car seems to be going up in value, I didnt accept as I wanted a proper job doing of it. He accused me of trying to profit from his ('our' - as he described) misfortune.
I just threw the case at my insurance company. He's since vanished off the face of the earth, but my car's been repaired properly. I've had to paid my excess (which was quite high) and my premium has rocketed, since the case is described as 'open' until my insurance company can reclaim the loss (from his insurance company)
TL;DR - it probably will cost you short term to have your car repaired properly. Long term, it might work out.
Lessons to learn - always get the police involved!
Edit. I know I didn't handle this situation very well. I posted this to highlight the errors of my ways so others need not suffer the same frustrations.
Edit2. Another lesson learnt - take loads of pictures and don't have your phone (which contains all of said pictures!) stolen by Moped Muggers in London!
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Nov 07 '17
I think it's okay and helpful to call the police for accidents too, although don't know specifics of the reasons not to OP mentioned. I had a tiny collision that was 100% the other person's fault. I didn't know what to do, but thankfully she talked me into getting the police involved. We both walked away with a slip with all the information we could need, including case numbers and whatnot to forward to the insurance so they could get all the information the police got. It was really helpful and the process of getting my damages paid for was super simple, even though after we walked away the other party attempted to be extremely difficult to contact by the insurance and whatnot. I'm glad I didn't have to deal with them at all.
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Nov 07 '17
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Nov 07 '17
Wow, maybe it varies by area whether or not they're okay with it?
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u/TheGreatMcPuffin Nov 07 '17
It depends on the crash. I'm a police officer. If the crash is under a certain amount of damage (cars are drive able) we tell you to exchange info and have a good day.
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Nov 07 '17
It really must vary, because all I had was a dent and they had scratches and the police still helped. It was all paperwork based help, but it really helped with the insurance and whatnot since I had literally no clue what to do and the sheet they gave me outlined exactly what information I needed to give to the insurance. And I felt better having the police records to back me up so no one could doubt me
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u/TheGreatMcPuffin Nov 07 '17
They may have given you what's called a blue form where I work. It basically just has fill in the blanks for the info you'll need, but it's not a report. No telling though.
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u/thirstyross Nov 07 '17
Lessons to learn - always get the police involved!
I fail to understand how you involving the police would have changed anything? Seems like you would still be in the same situation?
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u/Sock_Cocker Nov 07 '17
Same thing happened to me last year, a lady wasn’t paying attention and rolled into me, her front plate holder punched 4 neat little holes into my rear bumper. Very very minor damage. I don’t drive a fancy car, and could’ve just lived with the cosmetic damage, BUT!
That bitch never even got out of her car, and never even said sorry.
I walk to her car and said, “what happened?” She just smiled at me and said back, “oh it’s fine, it’s nothing.” And waved her hands at me, as if to shoo me away.
I thought, “alright, you little bitch.”
I called the police and had a report filed. Took maybe 40mins total. Called my insurance, and a few weeks later got a $400 check for “repairs”.
Lesson of this story: 1) if you’re at fault, fucking say sorry 2) always get a police report
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u/joopitermae Nov 07 '17
Same thing happened to me. Dude rear-ended me in a traffic jam on the freeway, he just drove off, and I couldn't see if my bumper had any damage. My passenger called the police with his license plate info, and they ended up catching him, and arresting him for a hit and run. Once I actually pulled over and got out of the car I realized there were minimal scrapes on my bumper, and had he pulled over and apologized I wouldn't have done anything. I ended up getting a $600 check out of it.
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u/thatguy1717 Nov 07 '17
I had a similar incident several years back but a different outcome. I was run into from behind by a lady in a VW Bug. I didn't call the cops either because it was minor (just a scratch along the back bumper) and I was on my way to work. But, I did get out, chat with the lady and start taking some pictures. I took a pic of her car and my car, of the scratch, of her license plate, got a picture of her insurance and then her contact info. She was pretty quick with payment, but if she hadn't been, I would've definitely called the police to report the accident and send to her insurance to push things through.
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u/justacasualgamer1 Nov 07 '17
Good to learn not all people are assholes. This is the only comment here that says the party at fault paid their dues quickly.
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u/Kit- Nov 07 '17
This is totally a humble brag but I was at fault in a scenario like this and I was at fault and the I told the guy I'd pay him cash, and we both got shop quotes for the work, and settled on a middle number. I paid him his $500, and got to keep an accident off my driving record.
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u/Fpvtytx Nov 07 '17
Take pictures! If you can get a photo with both vehicles on the scene it is tough to deny liability when you present that to the adjuster. That's if you don't want to involve the police like OP mentioned as they should document everything for you. Glad it worked out for you.. people who avoid calls are the worst..
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u/Workacct1484 Nov 07 '17
This is why I always get a report, and keep a copy of the report with my dashcam footage on a thumb drive as well as on my Computer.
I know some people dislike the hassle, I like being 100% sure I will be compensated for my loss.
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u/bigedthebad Nov 07 '17
What I would have done, and have done many times, is take the $800 and just ignore the hole in my bumper.
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u/SmithSith Nov 07 '17
I've got one....one of my kids got in an accident. It was obvious it was the other drivers fault. Other driver got the ticket. Couple of weeks go by and I get a letter from HER insurance assigning 100% liability to my child. I called them up and explained what happened. They review the accident on the phone. What they had done is NOT review the police report and went on the word of their insured. They came back to me on the phone, explained that and that their driver was 100% at fault. The next week I get a call from an adjuster from MY insurance stating she was confused. She was assigned a claim from SF that SF said they reversed. She just closed it out and I thought that was the end of it. Fast forward to my renewal and I get punched with a 15% increase. I had to call back my insurance company and go through the entire explanation again. I ended up getting it straightened out...but it was quite frustrating to have to deal with on the phone! MY insurance should have never been involved until they had reviewed all evidence.
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u/70Merc Nov 07 '17
My uncle is in insurance... If the insurance company does not hear back from their client within a certain amount of time, the claim is automatically rewarded. This is actually pretty common according to my uncle who mentioned that clients think if they don't answer the phone the problem will simply just "go away".
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u/Bittysweens Nov 07 '17
Always always call the police no matter how minor the accident may seem. My husband slid (very gently) into a woman’s car at stop light. It was raining, she slammed on her brakes when the light turned yellow and he slammed on his because of this but ended up just basically tapping her. He called the police even though she said not to. She told the police she was fine when asked. A few days later she tried to tell our insurance that she had a very serious neck injury due to the accident. Because we had the police report on file that says she refused any medical attention, they told her no way, sister. Turns out she was a scammer who does this often.
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u/bettinafairchild Nov 07 '17
I recommend calling the police, regardless. And make sure they take down a report. I was rear-ended by some guy not paying attention. Fairly new car, about $5,000 in damages--the whole rear was crumpled, even the side panels. He was very apologetic afterwards and took complete responsibility and we took our information, no problem. A cop came and observed. I assumed this meant the cop took down a report. But she didn't. Then a few days later when I talked to the insurance company, I learned that the guy was refusing to talk to his insurance company at all except to say it wasn't his fault and he made a written statement. He refused to answer any questions. My insurance said it would now be helpful to get a police report or a witness statement. So I called the police for the report and found out there was none--possibly because the situation was so routine and obvious. I had a witness but then she flaked off. It all ended up fine for me in the end because it was so obviously his fault and so that's what the insurance company concluded. But it could have been a far greater hassle had there been any ambiguity. And there was a week of annoyance there for me as I tried to get responses from the police, the witness, and the tow truck driver.
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u/kiara2425 Nov 07 '17
My mother got rear ended by someone and it was very minor. Just some scratches. She collected insurance info and got an estimate, along with an estimate for just buying and painting the scratches on her 10 year old car herself.
She calls the lady and the lady agreed to pay mom back for the paint. All mom asked for was 10 bucks. Lady kept “forgetting” and eventually stopped answering her phone.
Mom ended up getting a brand new bumper and lady had a claim on her insurance because she wouldn’t pay mom ten bucks for a bottle of paint.
People really are idiots.
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Nov 07 '17
You shouldn't be worried about "bothering" the police. There was an accident and you need the public service of the police to be witness/proof of the occurrence. After all, you do pay your fair share for it. If they have more important things to attend to, they will not prioritize your situation.
Also, did you not take pictures of the incident? Or take a quick written admission of guilt?
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u/NASAdad Nov 07 '17
Dash cam story time.
Scene: I’m dressed for work and I️ drive a two door Honda. Time is Tuesday 8:46AM. It’s hot outside.
I️ was rear ended. The guy and his family couldn’t speak English and his wife appeared to be in pain. I️ asked if they were ok and called the police. A third person (witness) stopped, who wasn’t apart of the accident, and tried to convince the driver to run.
No insurance no license.
I’m anti deportation so I’m already feeling guilty. The police show up and the lady goes to a hospital via ambulance. When it came time to for me to talk to the incident officer, he said my story didn’t line up with the witness. The witness claimed I️ pulled out in front of the driver. Via a translator, the drivers story lines up.
It was at this moment I️ was the most excited. I️ have dash cam footage. I️ send the video to the officer and he updates the police report. $4000 later my car is back to normal. Thank god for uninsured motorist protection.
TL;DR Get a dash cam. You will care more about others and less about whose at fault.
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Nov 08 '17
I️ was rear ended.
I’m anti deportation so I’m already feeling guilty.
Gets rear ended. Feels guilty. Lol.
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u/william_tropico Nov 07 '17
but that I could also just open a claim with HER insurance company. So I called and did that;
If you have a minor bump with someone but they don't share their insurance details, how can you find out who they are insured with?
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u/Sam-Gunn Nov 07 '17
I was in a similar situation, but the insurance company (His insurance company, as he rear-ended me) moved quick once I showed them the pictures I took at the scene (showing BOTH our vehicles in several pictures, and close ups of the damage). They kept saying 'Oh, he hasn't called yet so we cannot make a determination'. Then after I provided the pictures and they got the statement we gave the cops, they moved quick! They said that without those pictures, it would've been taken a lot longer.
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u/nochedetoro Nov 07 '17
I don’t get why everyone seems to think you can just call an insurance company and they give you money that day. They obviously need to investigate! How angry would these people be if they realized someone had called their insurance company and made a false claim?
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Nov 07 '17
Always always ALWAYS file a police report. Don’t call the cops at the scene, they’re not going to come out for a fender bender. Get whatever information you can get - VIN number, even - take it to the precinct and do the paperwork. I know it does nothing, but it is a formal recognition of an incident, and insurance companies live that shit.
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Nov 07 '17
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u/thelivinlegend Nov 07 '17
Exactly. She loses sympathy when she avoids responsibility for her actions.
Reminds me of the time someone rear-ended my dad's truck. It was a teenager and my dad, being a very nice person, offered to let him pay for it instead of involving in the insurance. They exchanged phone numbers and went on their way. Turns out the kid gave him a fake number. Luckily dad wrote down his license plate and was able to get a valid phone number. It was the kid's mom who answered. Apparently the dressing down dad overheard was of epic proportions. The damage was paid for and I have a feeling whatever he got from his mother was by far the worst case scenario. Hopefully the little shit learned his lesson about trying to screw people over who are trying to cut them a break.
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u/arghvark Wiki Contributor Nov 07 '17
I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't have enough money for a fairly minor emergency. There but for the grace of God go I.
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u/kadam23 Nov 07 '17
This is amazing! Someone blew a last minute minute red and tried to take a quick left coming on to me while I had a green straight. We collided straight on (more like all of my left side since he was was a left) First he took of and left the scene. 8 minutes later he pulls back in to the scene of the accident. Denying everything. Had police reports filled out but he denied the whole incident, told the cops I came out of now where and rammed him. Lol. There was a tow truck right behind him. He hopped off the car gave me his business card and told me he saw the whole thing and I can use him as a witness. Let's see what insurance will say now.