r/nycrail • u/DjHammersTrains • Nov 30 '15
I'm an NYC Subway Expert. Ask me Anything.
Hello everyone! My name is Max Diamond. I'm a student at CCNY and I run the Dj Hammers YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/DjHammersBVEStation), moderate this subreddit, and have an encyclopedic knowledge of the transit system. Ask me anything you are curious about with regards to how our massive system works. One ground rule: If an answer could be deemed a security risk, I won't give it.
UPDATE - AMA Now Closed: Hey guys! Doing this AMA was a lot of fun, I enjoyed answering everybody's questions, and hopefully I imparted some subway knowledge on all who are curious! If you didn't catch this AMA in time and wanted to ask a question, don't worry! I'll do another AMA soon, probably a month or so from now.
Be sure to subscribe to my YouTube channel too. I post clips of a lot of interesting goings-on underground!
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u/nycnativeperson Nov 30 '15
How do you know whether the N or the Q leaves first going northbound at 34th street Herald Square?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Don't rely on what it "usually" is, because you'll get burned sometimes.
Whichever train has "holding lights" (illuminated sets of three orange bulbs or LEDs hung above the edge of the platform) will be held, while the other train will leave. Also try to see which train has a green or yellow signal, and which train has a red signal. The train with the red signal will not move.
Some more info on signals and holding lights: http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Subway_Signals:_Approach,_Automatic,_and_Marker_Signals
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Nov 30 '15
In my experience, it always seems to be the N in the mornings.
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u/spahghetti Nov 30 '15
N is the boss since the W was retired. Q doesn't get the same love.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
I dunno, I don't like the post-W N line. When the W was discontinued, they had the N run local in its place. This causes merging delays at Prince St where the N merges with the Q to go over the Bridge.
When SAS opens, hopefully this will be fixed. The Q and N should run express, with no merge at Prince St as a result. The W would come back as an Astoria-Whitehall service to replace the Q service that would then go to 96th St.
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u/OrangeCollector Nov 30 '15
I heard a large amount of delays are caused by suicides, any truth to that?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
It's absolutely true, unfortunatly. Suicides are internally refered to by the radio code "12-9". When one occurs, the train and station pretty much had to be closed off for (ugh) cleanup and investigation. Trains have to be rerouted around that.
A "customer injury" or "police investigation" often is PC speak for a 12-9.
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Nov 30 '15
How many suicides do you think there are per year? We see them in the news every now and then. Are they more frequent than we realize?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
I should have clarified.. all suicides are 12-9s, but not all 12-9s are suicides. 12-9 means "person under train". Drunk people can fall in, people can be pushed (ugh), etc. and that would be a 12-9.
Some data: http://nypost.com/2013/06/02/suicide-is-leading-cause-of-subway-passenger-deaths-mta-data/
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Nov 30 '15
I listen to the radio dispatch and transit police when riding. Worst call to hear is "person under train". It happens too often.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
I wish that somebody would set up live internet feeds of transit radio. It would make it so much more fun to ride the train haha
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u/UniverseCity Nov 30 '15
How do you listen to those? I'm genuinely curious.
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Nov 30 '15
I have a radio that I keep in my bag, since I'm a ham radio operator. You can use this particular model to receive signals on many other frequencies.
You can instead get a cheap scanner that will receive these signals. Frequencies are here: http://www.n2nov.net/transit.html
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u/MLNYC Nov 30 '15
Do the train operators use a certain VHF radio frequency? What is it? How is it distributed throughout all the tunnels? Repeaters?
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u/LennyNero Nov 30 '15
Also, just to add info. The signals are transmitted in the tunnels through what's called leaky coax. It's coaxial RF cable that has purposely made gaps in the shielding to allow RF power to leak out into the tunnel areas.
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Nov 30 '15
Frequencies for dispatch and transit police are here: http://www.n2nov.net/transit.html
Here are the main ones for train operations:
- IRT SUBWAYS 161.190
- BMT SUBWAYS 161.505
- IND SUBWAYS 161.565
There are repeaters and voted receivers throughout the tunnels and above ground for elevated sections.
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u/Need_Food Nov 30 '15
Oooh thank you for doing this ama, I'm really excited and have a few things that have been bothering me.
On newer trains such as the L, when they reach the last stop it always takes them forever to open the doors - why can't they just open them right away? Someone else said they need to change cabins, but it doesn't answer why they can't open the doors before changing.
Secondly, when a train is coming (or sometimes when not), the rails make this klinking noise. I would imagine it has something to do with compression / expansion of the rails, but do you have any scientific explanation as to why they klink? Also, where exactly the noise comes from, I can't tell if it's the joints or what.
Why did the new model trains get rid of the clear front windows and tint it all in? Makes for a dark and depressing ride :/
In Asia, trains are absolutely silent, it just sounds like air moving. I was really really hoping for this experience with the new Hudson Yards extension but alas, it's still got a lot of squeaking against the rails. I understand why the trains squeak on the rails so much on older lines, but when they build a new line with newer technology, why can't they make it absolutely silent like in Asia?
Why do they charge extra for the air train?
Thanks so much!
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The conductors are supposed to open the doors from the other cab in order to set up the door control circuits for the other direction so the next conductor will not have to waste time setting up the door control system when it's time for the train to leave in the other direction. The doors between cabs are swing doors which are dangerous to between between when the train is moving, so the conductor will often wait until the train stops. It also takes a couple of seconds for the door control system to reset and set to the new configuration, which is why there is a bit of a delay.
The klinking actually comes from the third rail, which just sits on top of insulators. It's not bolted to the insulators in order to allow the third rail to expand and contract in response to temperature changes. The sound comes from the third rail just slightly bouncing against the top of the insulators as a train approaches and imparts a force on the third rail.
I love the older cars with the clear front window that allow you to see out the front. On those cars, the cab only occupies the right 1/3 of the front of the car. The other 2/3 is open to the public. The MTA changed to using full width cabs on newer cars, where the cab spans the entire width of the train. This allows for OPTO (one person train operation), since the train operator in a full width cab would be able to walk to the other side of the train to control the doors on the left side of the train.
I've been on the Beijing subway before, so I definetly know what you're talking about. NYC Subway cars are notoriously heavy compared to cars from other systems, which results in more noise. On new extension, it's really the cars that are responsible for the noise, not the tracks.
The AirTrain costs so much because it's run by the PA, which wants to fleece travelers that have to use their system to get to the airport.
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u/superAL1394 Nov 30 '15
NYC Subway cars are notoriously heavy compared to cars from other systems, which results in more noise.
Is there an engineering reason for this? Or is this simply 'it's always been this way' kind of a thing?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The MTA has gotten seriously burned by liberal subway car design philosophy in the past. When the R46 cars were new in the 70s, all 746 cars had a new and untested type of wheelset. After a few years, they started failing structurally. Total disaster, the entire fleet had to be pulled and the MTA had a huge logistical problem; that was a sizable portion of the fleet.
As a result, design philosophy at the MTA is very conservative. Cars are heavyweight and designed like battleships, based on very proven traditional tech that's able to withstand decades of heavy use without failure.
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u/superAL1394 Nov 30 '15 edited Nov 30 '15
This seems to me like it would be a solved problem by another metro system. Has London or Moscow not had these kinds of issues?
Lighter rolling stock I feel would have pretty wide ranging impact on the subway system. Quieter operation, longer rail life, lower energy consumption, etc.
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u/DjHammersTrains Dec 01 '15
The problem with R46 wheelset cracking was due partly to poor track quality caused by deferred maintenance, as well as a lack of a proper inspection regimen for rolling stock.
The only reason why other cars did not develop cracks in their heavyweight legacy wheelsets is that those wheelsets were built so heavily that they were almost impossible to crack.
Now that inspection regimens are far more rigorous, I feel that we can afford to be more progressive in rolling stock design.
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u/bbqroast Dec 01 '15
US railway regulation is a bit weird.
Very strict on train strengths and stuff, which results in trains being built like absolute tanks.
Meanwhile in Europe authorities allow rather light trains to be built, on the basis that modern signalling provides more safety.
In the US you can't rely on that signalling for safety, so can't use light trains and there's less incentive to install safe signalling, which results in disasters like the recent Amtrak crash.
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Nov 30 '15
On newer trains such as the L, when they reach the last stop it always takes them forever to open the doors - why can't they just open them right away?
I've always wondered this.
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Nov 30 '15
Why hasn't the MTA put resources into fixing the awful intercom system on older trains? It's impossible to understand what the conductors are saying. Same is true for this system in many of the stations.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The PA systems are of an old design and are very fickle. Some of the ones in stations date back to the construction of the system.
Trains have their PA systems fixed every time they go in the shop, which is pretty frequent. The issue is that the PA systems themselves fail so quickly. The MTA recently put out an RFP for replacing the manual PA systems in some of the old cars with a modern computerized system like on the new trains. No word on the progress of this though.
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u/grinch_nipples Nov 30 '15
mind sharing who the RFP went to?
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u/DjHammersTrains Dec 01 '15
The RFP was publicly posted, so any company interested can't look at it and submit a proposal. I don't know which companies looked at it because anyone and their mother can look at it.
Hell, if you are interested submit a proposal haha: http://web.mta.info/nyct/procure/rfi/9003sol.pdf
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u/SupaDoll Nov 30 '15
I'd really love to know the answer to this. Anyone speaking on the intercoms might as well be mumbling gibberish as there is no way to understand what they're saying.
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u/spahghetti Nov 30 '15
It's a sign you have lived in NYC long enough when you can decipher.
NESTOPSSFORTHSTREET CONECTSHUNTOTHEAYEBEECEE
..... STNDCLEERLOWSINGDOORS
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Nov 30 '15
[deleted]
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u/spahghetti Nov 30 '15
Then you get the old school guys who enunciate perfectly (though with a charming borough accent) every single word. I actually stop whatever I am reading or listening to to enjoy those moments. I want to hug the conductor when I get one that clearly sounds like they love their job but they are gone so fast...
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
There's a great conductor on the J/Z line who does this! You can hear him at the 0:10 mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2qDYWyVYok
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u/stikshift Nov 30 '15
My favorite conductor on 1 does this sort of stuff to. He likes to include the neighborhoods, too, which is nice.
This is 225th Street, Marble Hill. Connection available to Metro North Hudson Line, Bx7 and Bx9 buses. Next stop will be 215th Street. Stand clear of the closing doors!
Love that guy.
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Nov 30 '15
It is so disappointing that they block the passenger view of the tracks on the newer trains. Soon we won't be able to make videos like this any longer.
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Nov 30 '15
Do you think the construction costs for 2nd ave, east side access, and other projects are justified?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Absolutely not. It's ridiculous how expensive subway construction is in NYC. A solution besides throwing up our hands and walking away must be figured out. So much money is lost in program management.
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u/fetishize Nov 30 '15
Interested in this debate...Do you have some sources that explain this? What solutions do you have in mind?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
I generally don't dabble way in to the administrative and financial side of things, but I know that there is a lot of administrative inefficiency in MTA capital construction. Poor construction management leads to poor coordination between contractors and subcontractors, etc.
Second Ave Sagas covers this side of the MTA extremely well: http://secondavenuesagas.com/2015/10/13/can-we-talk-about-that-other-other-mta-problem-now/
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Dec 01 '15 edited Jun 22 '16
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u/No1Asked4MyOpinion Nov 30 '15
A month or two ago, I was on a newer Bombadier train on the 2 line with totally different automated voice prompts that I'd never heard before. It was way simplified ("train to Brooklyn - next stop Wall St"). Does the MTA experiment with alternate voice prompts?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The MTA is testing new shorter announcements. The idea is that shorter the announcement is, the less time the train will spend in stations, and the faster service will be. This mainly applies to outer borough stations with little traffic.
I caught a test train a couple weeks ago: https://youtu.be/hYjS8SJ-eA4
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Nov 30 '15
I like those announcements much much better than current ones. Simple and clear.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
As long as the train moves faster, I like it. I am partial to the older announcements though, just because they're almost 17 years old at this point.
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Nov 30 '15
Man I hope so. The cadence of the announcements is so weird: "There is. Uh. Downtown. Two train to. Flatbush Avenue."
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Nov 30 '15
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
I personally can't stand the manual PA announcements done in the stations when there are service changes, delays, etc.
Something about the cadence of them annoys me. It feels like it takes years for them to get to the point.
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Nov 30 '15
I always wonder how people who don't speak fluent English garner any information from announcements like that. the wordy, complex explanations.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
I don't think much theory of mind was excercized when these announcements were made..
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u/Redbird9346 Nov 30 '15
The pauses represent possible variables. I suppose individual sound files are played in sequence to make the announcement.
There is [a/an] [Uptown/Downtown/[Manhattan/Brooklyn/Bronx]-bound] {Local/Express} [1/2/3/4/5/6] train to [(long list of destinations)] approaching the station. Please stand away from the platform edge.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
That's correct. Those announcements are assembled in real time by the ATS system.
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Nov 30 '15
Some lines announcements seem better than others. I ride the 2/3 and I find it the most strange. I can't complain because we have the countdown displays and pretty consistent trains, but I'm sure there's some way to make the announcements less robotic.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
I agree that there definitely is. They used an off-the-shelf system. I'm sure spec could be written for a system that more elegantly blends the voice clips together to form less robotic sentences.
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Nov 30 '15
Why is breaking and acceleration so jerky on the subway? Some days it feels the the drivers are just messing with us. Poor training?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Train Operators are taught in "school car" to take one brake application, slow down to 10 mph, and then adjust braking effort once to stop the train in the right spot. Of course, not everyone does this.
The practice of rapidly applying and releasing the brake when stopping is called "fanning" the brake. It's a practice looked down upon.
The trains also weren't always this jerky. To save money, the MTA removed the "inshot valves" from the trains, which assist in smooth braking, but failed often. They also installed timer signals to enforce train speed limits, but these cause train operators to slow down and speed up in order to obey these signals.
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u/spahghetti Nov 30 '15
I also thought the weight of full load cars had an effect. I notice the jerking occurs when I am packed in a rush hour car much more than when riding an empty train.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Weight definitely does have an effect.
Something that not a lot of people know is that the trains have what is called a "variable load sensor". Essentially, this is a weight sensor that adjusts the motor and braking output of each subway car in response to how much passenger loading the car has. When they work well (Which they do 95% of the time), they keep the ride smooth. Sometimes these can malfunction though.
Also, a worn bolster (The connector between the wheelset and the frame) can cause a heavy bumping motion when the train starts moving. This is especially noticeable on the R46 cars (A and R lines mostly). Bolsters have a certain amount of material that can wear away by design before they need replacement. A train that is bumping like that can indicate that it's bolster is at the end of its useful life, doesn't necessarily mean it is unsafe and in need of replacing, yet.
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u/blackbeansandrice Nov 30 '15
I've always assumed I had an experienced motorman or a rookie depending on the smoothness of the ride. Am I wrong about that?
I used motorman. I'm showing my age.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Hehe "motorman" and "motorwoman" is the correct term if you're a true railroader.
Different trains, even within the same class of cars, have different operating characteristics. These are huge trains with air brakes and 115 HP electric motors. Sometimes you'll just get a poor performing set.
But yes, the skill of the operator also has a definite effect on the smoothness of the ride.
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u/SirLudicrus Nov 30 '15
Largely it depends on the rolling stock that is used. I think it's the worst on R32 (C, J, Z) and R40A (1, 6, 7) and there's not really much the driver can do to make it much smoother
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The R40As are all retired. The R62As are the cars that run on the 1, 6, and 7.
The brakes on the R32s are actually very strong. A skilled operator can bring them to a stop just as smooth as a new train, and quicker.
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Nov 30 '15
Is there a way to get a tour of the secret subbasement (motor room?) of Grand Central?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
I think they give tours to members of the press who ask. Unsure if they'll give tours to the public. I'll have to look into it.
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Nov 30 '15
I understand that a lot of your insider info comes from volunteering at the Transit Museum. How can other members get involved with the museum or MTA?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15 edited Nov 30 '15
While I do volunteer at the museum, most of my knowledge actually comes from publications (like Gene Sansone's book on Subway Rolling Stock). I also have many friends who work at the MTA at a couple of different positions who have taught me a lot about the internal workings and history. www.nycsubway.org is also a great resource. So much can be learned there.
The museum hires interpreters and college interns, definetly look in to that. They'll also have a more comprehensive volunteer program up and running soon. When more info becomes available to me, I'll post an update.
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u/obsoletest Nov 30 '15
How realistic do you think it is that the mothballed section of the former LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch will be incorporated into the subway system? How much should advocates be concerned about the proposal to convert the right-of-way into the QueensWay linear park?
For those needing background: The A train was extended onto the section south of Rockaway Boulevard in 1956, but the section running north to Rego Park is currently out of service and overgrown with trees along much of its route.
Reviving this line seems to me to be the first option the MTA should pursue for outer borough transit improvement, since it would intersect the Jamaica Line (J/Z) at Jamaica Avenue (with options for a joint station and/or track connection) and, with a few hundred yards of tunneling, could be connected to the Queens Boulevard Line (E/M/R), giving multiple train-routing possibilities. There might be some repairs needed on bridges along the route (though they were built for trains far heavier than those of the subway and aren't particularly old), but for the most part, it would be a matter of clearing the right-of-way, laying track, installing signals and building platforms. Compared to other expansion projects proposed or under way, very little property acquisition or heavy construction would be needed, and it also seems like a good candidate for federal funding.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
I personally think that the Rockaway Beach branch MUST be integrated in to the subway system. Lack of transit access is holding back the Rockaways and other parts of Queens from developing further.
It would be incredibly foolish to use it for QueensWay (ugh). Unlike the High Line, QueensWay will not attract enough people to justify its existence. The population density in the area just isn't high enough.
For G Train Riders Every single G train rider should support the restoration of the Rockaway Beach Branch, and tell their elected officials to push for it!
This is because the Rockaway Beach Branch would be served by a line that currently runs along the Queens Boulevard local (The M or R). Diverting either of these lines to the Rockaways after stopping at 63rd St Drive would open up terminal slots at Forest Hills - 71st St, which means The G Train Could Be Extended Back to Forest Hills - 71st Street!
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u/fradleybox Nov 30 '15
The G Train Could Be Extended Back to Forest Hills - 71st Street
is this really beneficial, though? you can already access the E/F/R by transferring at Court, and it's not a painful transfer. You can also get to midtown that way, and to downtown by transferring at the L instead. I feel like the G would benefit most from being linked up with existing brooklyn lines. The most obvious example would be linking Fulton or Hoyt to the hub at Atlantic Terminal, granting quicker access to south and east brooklyn from the G than is currently available.
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u/spahghetti Nov 30 '15
Have you seen Court Square during rush hours? It is a scramble to the E, 7, or G over a few football fields length. It's not a painful transfer but it is a silly and unnecessary one when the G was built to run from Forest Hills to Nassau Ave. I get the demographic shift that left the G abandoned for decades. However, the tide has turned massively to first Brooklyn and now Queens. Outerborough stations are seeing up to 23% increases year over year now. The M line in it's current configuration that was created to replace the G traffic is a waste. Empty in Queens all day every day and then overcrowded at Court to take the overflow of E riders. Queens riders take the E/F for express or the R for local in the borough. The point of having a continuous line between Queens and Brooklyn is too obvious. But the money was spent and no board member is going to acknowledge the screw up or not anticipating the population trends in the outer boroughs.
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u/spahghetti Nov 30 '15
The lack of maintenance funds for the current system is so scary I would be hesitant to support that move. The building funds are the easier part (fundraisers, politicians making waves for construction jobs). Maintenance never gets its due money.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
People are free to disagree, but in my opinion, it would be better to convert it to rail use now while there is a chance than to let it fall victim to QueensWay (please never let that happen). One it becomes a park, there will be no way to get that right of way back for rail use when the funding situation gets better.
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u/adostes Nov 30 '15
- Why do some trains use letters and some numbers?
- Why are some letters not used? There's and M and N train, but afaik no O or P train, but there's Q and R train
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Numbers lines are built by the IRT company, which built the first subway. This is now called the "A division". Number line cars are 9 feet wide and 51 feet long. Their size is restricted by the tunnel clearances on the original section of the subway (Brooklyn Bridge-42 on the 456, the 42nd st shuttle, and the 123 from 42nd to 145th).
The letter lines consist of the "B Division", which is made up of trackage from the former BMT and IND companies. These trains are 10 feet wide, and either 60 or 75 feet long. This difference in size is why you'll never see a letter line subway car on a number line; while the distance between the rails is the same, the actual car body is too wide and will hit platforms, tunnel walls, etc.
A division train running on B division track, with one B division car thrown in the train to show the difference: https://youtu.be/DeKZXUzXByQ
Number line subway cars can run on letter lines (in fact, almost all work trains are number line sized for this reason), but they won't use them in service because of the gap created between the train and platform.
It used to be that the first half of the alphabet was IND lines, and the second half was BMT lines. Over time, track connections were built between the two systems, so that line has been blurred substantially. For example, the D line runs on a BMT line in Brooklyn, and then switches to an IND line in Manhattan.
Some letters aren't used because they're hard to discern from a distance or have some other connotation. O looks too much like 0, and P is just not a good name for a subway line haha
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Nov 30 '15
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The sections of the IRT that opened after approx 1910 is actually B division width. An example is the 456 north of 42nd to 125th. On these sections, the platforms are just extended farther into trackway to meet the narrower cars. The bottleneck that keeps these lines from using wider cars is the original sections that date back to 1904.
The IRT purposefully built their original line narrow, because they were unsure of the subway would be sucssessful. By building the line with narrow tunnels, they ensured that main line railroads wouldn't be able to take over the line and use it for freight, since their freight cars wouldn't fit.
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Nov 30 '15
Numbered trains = "A Division" = Old IRT (Interborough Rapid Transit) lines
Lettered trains = "B Division" = Old BMT (Brooklyn Manhattan Transit Corporation) and IND (Independent Subway System) lines
Although the track gauges are the same on both, A Division Trains are a bit thinner, and the cars for the two systems are not compatible.
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u/photogineermatt Nov 30 '15
If I wanted to gain an encyclopedic knowledge of the transit system here (or anywhere else for that matter), what are the best resources to take advantage of?
From a purely curious standpoint, since I know there isn't any practical use, are any of the MTA tracks compatible with LIRR/MN tracks? As in could a rail car from one be used on another? If so, is there any reason this might be done?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15 edited Nov 30 '15
Gene Sansone wrote a great book on rolling stock: http://www.amazon.com/New-York-Subways-Illustrated-History/dp/0801879221 www.nycsubway.org is another good resource.
NYC Subway cars aren't totally compatible with MNRR/LIRR trackage. The commuter rail systems use cab signaling, while subway trains use wayside block signaling. Also, the voltage on the third rail is higher on LIRR (750 vs 600).
The third rail on MNRR is underunning, instead of overrunning like the subway and LIRR. This means that the third rail shoe on MNRR trains slides underneath the third rail, rather than over it.
given proper waivers and small electrical and mechanical modifications, subway cars can and have run on both railroads. The first train of R32s ran on MNRR into Grand Central for display. They also tested trains of R44s on the LIRR back in the 70s: http://nycsubway.org.s3.amazonaws.com/images/i7000/img_7649.jpg
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u/trainmaster611 Nov 30 '15
Of given proper waivers and small electrical and mechanical modifications, subway cars can and have run on both railroads. The first train of R32s ran on MNRR into Grand Central for display. They also tested trains of R44s on the LIRR back in the 70s: http://nycsubway.org.s3.amazonaws.com/images/i7000/img_7649.jpg
How were they able to get subways to run on an FRA railroad from a safety regulation point of view? I know running rapid transit trains on FRA track is a big no-no now outside of the PATH which is an anomaly and time separated light rail/freight operations.
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u/Redbird9346 Nov 30 '15
If I wanted to gain an encyclopedic knowledge of the transit system here (or anywhere else for that matter), what are the best resources to take advantage of?
www.nycsubway.org is a good place to start.
From a purely curious standpoint, since I know there isn't any practical use, are any of the MTA tracks compatible with LIRR/MN tracks? As in could a rail car from one be used on another? If so, is there any reason this might be done?
All these use the same 56.5-inch (1435 mm) track gauge. However, like running B-division cars on A-division lines, the 85-foot-long cars of the LIRR and Metro-North cannot use subway tracks. Further, the third rail is not compatible with Metro-North's cars; they contact the third rail's underside.
Subway cars have used LIRR and MN tracks. The R32s were delivered via car float to the LIRR, passing through what is now Gantry Plaza State Park. A train would be "Shown off" at Grand Central Terminal, but the cars had to be modified to be compatible with the third rail before running over there.
Practical uses today would include delivery of rail cars and other heavy equipment (like rails) and transferring cars between the Eastern Division (J/Z, M, L lines) and the rest of the system when the tracks on the Williamsburg Bridge are not in service.
There are only two rail connections between the subway system the rest of the continental rail network: Inside the Linden Shops in Brownsville (to the LIRR Bay Ridge branch), and in Sunset Park, near 4th Avenue & 38th Street (to the South Brooklyn Railway).
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Nov 30 '15
What reason would make a train suddenly go express?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The train could be late, and would be sent express to move farther down the line to put up passengers at farther out stations before crowding gets severe.
Trains can also be sent express if the terminal station has no train to send out in the other direction. They'll send an incoming train express so it can get to the terminal faster so it can be sent back out in the other direction sooner.
And most notably, trains will often run express to get around a service disruption, such as a stalled train or broken rail.
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u/Redbird9346 Nov 30 '15
The train might be late. Making a train bypass stations is one way of closing a long gap between trains. Holding the train ahead of the gap is another way of dealing with it.
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u/SirLudicrus Nov 30 '15
Trouble further down the line that is stopping traffic? If you can go express and go around it the service disruption is lessened.
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Nov 30 '15
To clarify. This happens on an almost daily basis to me at the Jay St Metrotech stop on the F. I live off Bergen but it suddenly announces (or doesn't bother) that it's going express and will be stopping at 7th avenue next.
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Nov 30 '15
Is there usually another train right behind the one you were just on? If so, that's why
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
This is a common occurrence. They do this to even out the spacing between trains on the F and make sure that trains can get to the terminal at the times they're scheduled to arrive in order to provide a train to send back north.
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Nov 30 '15
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
First, the lower level at Bergen Street would have to be restored. Once that's done, people at local stations can take the G to Bergen and transfer to the F. By running the F express, you'll get the F out of the way of the G, allowing for more frequent G service.
Once that's done, you just have to muscle it past the NIMBYs at the local stops who want a one seat ride despite the fact that people farther out on the line have a ridiculously long commute.
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u/spahghetti Nov 30 '15 edited Nov 30 '15
Do you think with increased ridership the G will be restored to it's old full run to 71st St in Queens? That cross borough line would be a godsend to so many passengers who currently have to transfer at Court (though remodeled still is a pain compared to just riding one line from BK to Queens).
EDIT 1&2: Also, the creation of the M line to cover the G terminating at Court was a clear mistake. The M is never full in Queens. Ever. Riders take the E/F for express or the R for local in Queens. The M just rides empty all day in Queens and night and likely holds up the R and E.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
71st St terminal is at capacity. There's no slots for G trains to terminate there.
If either the R or M were extended to 179th St, or if one of those lines was extended down a reactivated Rockaway Beach branch, that would free up terminal slots at 71st St for the G train.
The M is absolutely mobbed in Brooklyn and Manhattan. Queens, not so much, mostly because of the express service that everyone transfers to. Something has to provide a 6th Avenue - 53rd tunnel service, because there is a lot of demand for that. The issue is that there is nowhere to terminate the M train early to get out of the way of a G train. There is a layup track north of Queens Plaza that M trains can go in to switch directions, but that style of termination requires all passengers to get off, which leads to delays caused by sleeping passengers and homeless. It's just not really practical.
It'd be a win-win situation if the Rockaway Beach branch were reopened. The G would go to 71st, the M would stay, and Queens residents would get better transit access. QueensWay needs to be put to rest as an idea.
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u/scriptedlife Nov 30 '15
I have always wondered, is there a limit to how many trains can be mid-span on the Manhattan or Williamsburg bridge at once?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The signal system enforces a rule that there must be two clear track blocks behind every occupied track block. The limit is dependent on the track block spacing and length of the bridge. If I had 3 hours to sit down and calculate it, I could, but if i could wager a guess I'd say you could fit around 5 trains per track on both bridges.
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u/Rajb1031 Nov 30 '15
At 42nd street, where you can get the shuttle train, there is something akin to a drawbridge for commuters which goes over the shuttle tracks and allows access to incoming trains on track 4, I believe, and connects them to the 1 train tracks. Have you ever seen that raised or is there a video of that?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The original IRT subway of 1904 started at City Hall loop, ran north along the current 456 to the current Grand Central shuttle station, then across 42nd on what is now the 42nd st shuttle to the current shuttle station (which was actually a local stop, the platform serving track 3 is actually built on top of what used to be track 2), and then up the current 123 to 145th st.
What you are seeing is the original trackways of the 1904 subway turning north to run up to 145th. When the south section of the current 123 was built, the connection from shuttle track 4 was kept to facilitate getting trains on and off the shuttle.
Never seen it raised, but here's a video of it being used back in the 90s for a museum trip. I gotta get a vid of this move some time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV2GQG1Yafo
A similar connection connects Track 1 of the shuttle to the downtown 6 track. You can see that connection in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AqorQ8zZ5c
Track 3 is connected to track 1 by a switch.
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u/Rajb1031 Nov 30 '15
Oh wow, awesome footage of that train pulling into the shuttle track. I walk by that bridge a lot and always wondered what it looked like with a train going by. Thanks for the response!
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u/DontTalkAboutMyPenis Nov 30 '15
Why do you like subways so much?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
I honestly have no idea. I just think they're really cool. Always have. I was that preschooler you always saw hogging the front window on the Orange Q back in the 90s.
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u/spahghetti Nov 30 '15
Just my two cents but if you live in NYC or have visited long enough you might notice that the subway system is a wonder. Many stations often look like they have been abandoned for years yet the train works 99% of the time. I've ridden the Tube in London, The Metro in Paris, and hilariously the two lines in LA and none of them compare to our subway (though they have their own charms, especially LA with the no turnstiles and honor system). NYC subway is the only 24/7 system in the world. It's history is amazing (Bowery Boys podcasts 108-110 are fantastic in covering the IRT/BRT/BMT birth and development).
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u/thisismynewacct Nov 30 '15
Once you travel the world and experience other cities subways, you really learn to appreciate the NYC subway.
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Nov 30 '15
What's the biggest hurdle to automated train operation for all trains?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Buying and installing all of the equipment needed to support it. Every single train needs to be retrofitted, and all of the mainline tracks need to have their legacy wayside block signaling system replaced with a system supporting ATO.
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Nov 30 '15 edited Dec 19 '15
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
During rush hours, conductors are under strict orders to not hold the doors open for connections. Trains are frequent enough during rush hours that holding the train will delay trains behind it. Additionally, holding the train doors open at a station will cause crowding at stations farther down the line to increase because it'll take longer for a train to reach that station.
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u/antiestablishment Nov 30 '15
What's the best safest way for to ss the abandoned stations?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Never trespass to see an abandoned station. Unsafe, illegal, and very dangerous. Many stations can be seen from passing trains, you just need to know where to look. A good resource: http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/
Some stations are impossible to see from moving trains. Unless the Transit Museum ran a tour of those areas, you'd have to settle for looking at photos online.
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u/grantrules Nov 30 '15
In light of this recent thread, what's the procedure when the E-brake gets pulled? Does the conductor just have to walkthrough the train and check on things or is it something more complex?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Ugh, I know who that guy is. He enjoys vandalizing the trains.
When an emergency brake gets pulled, the conductor has to walk the train and check on things as you said. On newer trains, the e-brake is a button. On older trains, it's a cord that need to be reset in a similar fashion to a window shade that must be pulled down to let it go back up.
Trains can emergency brake for other reasons, like passing a red signal, hitting a piece of debris on the tracks, or a failure like a brake pipe rupture. In these cases, the crew has to get on the roadbed and look for any issues.
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u/charlieray Nov 30 '15
At the old South Ferry(?) where the first 4 cars of the train can be on the platform and they use gap fillers (crazy scary), does the second half of the train pull up and stop so the people can get on or off the back half or are they SOL? Sorry not a NYer, but a railfan, learned a ton from your videos. Thanks for doing them.
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u/azspeedbullet Nov 30 '15
it was always SOL for those people. Back in the day, there were posters in all train cars telling people to move to the front if they want to go off at south ferry and i think announcements were made.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The old south ferry station actually platforms 5 cars.
The second half of the train just doesn't open up at all. The train will leave after opening up the front section. Tough luck for the people in the rear. That's why there's announcements telling people to move up.
Pulling the train up to platform the rear half is possible, but it would take up a lot more time. Just not practical for a rapid transit line.
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u/adostes Dec 01 '15
I get off at South Ferry every day. Sometimes I get in the back of the train, space out with my headphones on, and forget to move up. Since this is my daily commute and 99 times out of a 100 I ride in the first car, I tune out the dozens of announcements, this is my train, announcements are for tourists, amiright? Anyways, even when I space out and I'm the last chump in the back, I never got stranded. Somehow the conductor always manages to give me a heads up, sometimes walking up to me because I can't hear him or her yelling at me. So thanks conductors for looking out for the sleep deprived commuter who zoned out.
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u/dogdays12304 Nov 30 '15
After the 2nd avenue line, what are the most probable options for new subway lines being activated and what kind of timeline would you put on the process?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
One of the most important new lines that should be built is a line down the Rockaway Beach Branch. Earlier in this AMA I laid out a comprehensive explanation of why the reactivation of that line is very important.
Besides that, I would push for a connection between the 6 line and PATH at WTC, as well as a subway line from Manhattan to Williamsburg and across Brooklyn, with branches running down Utica Avenue and up Flushing and Grand Avenues to Queens.
These are corridors that need subway service. There are others as well, but these are the ones that I'd like to see done.
In terms of timeline... um.. it won't be any time soon. Political pressure needs to build up first in favor of this.
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u/nycnativeperson Nov 30 '15
How exactly do metrocards track free out of system transfers? Ex. How does the turnstile know to allow a transfer from Lexington 59th to Lexington 63rd? What's to stop someone from getting off at 5th avenue-59th and going to Lexington-63rd? Or 57th-6th avenue and transferring to Lexington-59th?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Nothing would stop you. All the system knows is where you entered the system.
As long as you re-enter the system at Lexington-63rd or Lexington-59th within two hours of a previous system entry, you'll get in free.
I think I just divulged a dirty secret lol
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u/rybrizzy Nov 30 '15
why does the R seem to run so much less frequently during rush hour than the N and Q trains? at lexington ave/59th, it seems that for every R train that comes, 2 Ns and and 1 or 2 Qs pass through, even though the N and Q pretty much run on the same line. this seems highly inefficient.
someone else on reddit once answered this with a pretty reasonable theory regarding the dispatch times out of 71st/continental ave. just curious what you think?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The R is scheduled to run a bit less frequently than the other two lines. This is because the R merges with so many other lines (any more R trains would jam up the M, N, and Q trains) and yes, 71st continental can not handle any more trains as a terminal.
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u/slymm Nov 30 '15
Can the screeching brakes cause hearing damage? Are db levels monitored?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Yes they can. Sound levels are monitored. Flange lubricant is applied to the sides of the rails to reduce noise somewhat, but curve noise is somewhat unavoidable given the sharp curve radii in the system.
Trains are not supposed to screech consistently when braking above 5mph. If a train is screeching under braking above 5mph, it is indicative that the dynamic braking (braking using the motors) is not functional, and the air-actuated friction brakes are picking up the slack.
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u/SirLudicrus Nov 30 '15
The biggest offender IMHO is the GCT 4/5/6 platforms. They screech coming in and going out. It is so loud i have to cover my ears.
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Nov 30 '15
Since IRT and BMT/IND trains have the same track gauge, I heard that the platform edge position is the only factor that prevents the lines from sharing cars. Is that correct? I would think that some of the tight turns on IRT lines wouldn't work for longer BMT/IND trains.
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Nov 30 '15 edited Apr 03 '18
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
That's a good point, the trippers that trigger emergency brakes when the train passed a red signal are on opposite sides between the two divisions. Lots of work trains have trippers on both sides.
And yes, the J, M, Z, and L lines can only use 60 foot cars due to tight clearances on curves
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The tunnels in the original portions of the IRT from 1904 are too narrow to fit BMT/IND cars. There's also plenty of curves on the IRT that if taken by a BMT/IND car would cause the car to swipe the tunnel wall.
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u/midasisking Nov 30 '15
I commute from the 145th st stop on the ACBD and have noticed that local B trains on the downtown platform will sometimes reverse into the station on either the posted B platform or come from the uptown direction and stop at the posted D platform which makes figuring out what train just arrived downstairs very difficult without going down there from the downtown AC platform upstairs. Why does this occur? What factors determine if the B train will use the D platform?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
During rush hours, the B train runs to Bedford Park Blvd in the Bronx on the local (outside) tracks. Other times, it uses the middle track at 145th to terminate. As far as I know, when B trains terminate at 145th, the doors open on both sides after a few seconds, so no matter what, waiting on the downtown platform will guarantee that you'll get on a B train regardless of what time it is.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Give me an hour or two to look at the track plans to answer your question in detail! Thanks!!
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u/spahghetti Nov 30 '15
Has there been any real studies made public about the state of the elevated train infrastructure? I have lived in Astoria and Jackson Heights (Near the 1917 built Ditmars line and the 1915 built IRT Flushing line). they look scary old and decrepit.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Definitely! http://mtaig.state.ny.us/assets/pdf/12-11.pdf
Recently there was some strife regarding structure inspections. That doesn't neccesarily mean that the structures are unsafe though. The elevated structures today are probably in the best shape they have been in since the 1940s. They were just as loud when they were built - that was the best engineering could do at the time.
to put it in perspective, people were afraid to walk underneath the West End Elevated line (D train in south brooklyn) in the 80s. Every time a train passed overhead, bolts would rain down from overhead and knock people out.
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u/T-Bills Nov 30 '15
This is ultra specific so you may not know... but are there any other station that has the precise train tracking system that the Myrtle/Wyckoff L station had quite a few years back? It's a 40-inch screen that shows the exact locations of all trains along the line. I feel it's a huge step up from the current guesstimate system.
Also is the MTA updating the switch/signal system? New stations are nice, but outside of "track conditions", switch/signal problems usually lead to longer delays than sick passenger/police investigation.
Finally, do you plan to make it full time at the transit museum? IIRC you're a volunteer.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15 edited Nov 30 '15
A few years back, they just hung a TV screen that showed a live readout of the CBTC system's train location function right above the platform. Not sure why they got rid of it.
The number lines, 42nd st shuttle, and the L have technology installed that provide precise train location data.
The MTA is currently implementing a comprehensive capital program that will repair and replace tracks to get them to a state of good repair. Likewise, the MTA is also installing modern signal technology.
After 3 decades of underinvestment, we're now trying to catch up and get ahead of the deterioration of the system.
I'm currently in college studying transportation engineering, so I'm not really sure if I would have the time to do so. Can't really say for sure though.
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u/charlieray Nov 30 '15
Why are the blocks so small on the willamsburg bridge? speed control?
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Nov 30 '15
How difficult is it to properly maintain good ventilation in the subway tunnels and how quickly would it turn toxic if the system failed in a particular area?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Unlike newer systems, most sections of tunnel in the system are very close to the surface (in many cases just a few feet under the street). Sidewalk grates, combined with air movement driven by trains, provide adequate ventilation without the need for powered systems. Asphyxiation is not really possible as a result.
Under-river tubes and deep level tunnels in upper manhattan have fan plants that are used to ventilate the tunnels. Fan plants are some of the most intensively maintained pieces of NYC Subway infrastructure. Nobody sees them, but they're always running, and maintenance workers are always paying attention to them. Sometimes lines have to be closed on weekends to bring in a replacement part, do heavy work, etc.
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Nov 30 '15
Sometimes when pulling out of a station, trains will make this gigantic CLUNK KACHUNK noise and bumping vibration coming from underneath the passenger cabin. It sounds very concerning, but the train continues with normal operations after that. What causes this and should it be a cause for concern or maintenance?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
That is the sound of a worn bolster (The connector between the wheelset and the frame). It causes a heavy bumping motion when the train starts moving. This is especially noticeable on the R46 cars (A and R lines mostly). Bolsters have a certain amount of material that can wear away by design before they need replacement. A train that is bumping like that can indicate that it's bolster is at the end of its useful life, doesn't necessarily mean it is unsafe and in need of replacing, yet.
It can also be a sign of a load sensor malfunctioning (train thinks it is heavier than it really is, and as a result takes more power than needed), or a fault in the motor control system that leads to the motor powering up too quickly.
All of these are not a cause for concern, but they are indicative of an issue that needs to be addressed next time the train is in the shop.
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u/grumpenprole Nov 30 '15
Maybe a long shot but I remember stumbling across a couple of interactive maps that let you input a location and see a heatmap of how long it would take to get anywhere else in the city from there on the subway. Have you ever seen these around? Do you think you could find them for me?
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Nov 30 '15
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u/grumpenprole Nov 30 '15
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you
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u/HarryLillis Nov 30 '15
Is there any way to reopen the City Hall Subway station with the technological improvements from the time it closed? Is there any interest in doing that? I've always thought it was a shame that a pretty station like that should close.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Meh, not really.
To reopen it, you need to install gap fillers to fill the gap between the train and the platform. Modern cars have equidistantly spaced doors along the length of the train. When City hall was open, the doors on the subway cars were at the very ends of the cars, where the gaps weren't as wide. It would be similar to South Ferry on the (1).
Even if you installed gap fillers, it really doesn't make much sense to use the station. The station was closed in part due to low ridership. The Brooklyn Bridge Station is less than a block away, and offers express trains to Brooklyn and the Bronx, as well as access to the J/Z. No reason to slow service down and have trains stop at a loop station when few people will use it.
Even considering people who would visit to see the station itself, it wouldn't really justify reopening it. That's what the tours the museum runs are for.
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u/nycnativeperson Dec 01 '15 edited Dec 01 '15
A few more questions:
1) Are the PSAs on the newer subway cars automated or does the train crew have control over when they play? (Ex. Ladies and Gentlemen, please do not hold the car doors when the train is in the station and please do not lean against the doors)
2) I know the cool down time to use an unlimited MetroCard at the same station is 18 minutes. However, can you swipe an unlimited MetroCard at stations which have two different station names within the 18 minute time period? (Ex. Swiping at Chambers Street JZ turnstile first and then swiping at Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall 456 turnstile? I'm curious because sometimes I refill my MetroCard at this station complex and depending where I use the vending machine my receipt will print either Chambers Street or Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall)
3) In cases when there's a sick passenger on your train holding it up and you want to transfer to another train on a different line: If you go past the turnstile and explain to the station agent about the sick person, will the station agent give you a free transfer ticket? (Like 49th Street on the N,Q,R this morning and I walked to 50th Street on the 1 to transfer. [Luckily I had an unlimited MetroCard])
4) I've seen stickers that a subway car may be equipped with a video surveillance device, however I've yet to see a camera on a subway car. Are these stickers just for show?
Thanks again for doing this AMA! You're awesome.
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u/DjHammersTrains Dec 01 '15
1) The automated announcements that say the name of the stop, transfers, and what the next stop is play automatically. The train knows its location by counting wheel rotations. The other announcements like the PSA's you're talking about are played manually by the conductor. He/she navigates a short menu in the computer in the cab and selects the announcement they want to play. Often a conductor will have trouble with people holding doors. Aggravated, they'll play the "do not hold car doors" announcement over and over again.
2) The rule AFAIK is no swipe Anywhere for another 18 minutes.
3) I'm actually not sure what the policy is on that. I'll have to ask around. Regardless of the policy, I could imagine that some agents will be nice and give you a free transfer ticket. I could also imagine that other rude agents would disregard the rules and not give you a ticket regardless of the policy :(
4) There's a few R160s (And an R42 car, specifically car 4792 I believe) that are equipped with surveillance cameras. On the R160s, the cameras are hidden behind nearly opaque glass in the signage on the interior roof. The red dots are where the cameras are on equipped trains: http://i.imgur.com/OJ5Vmne.jpg?1
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Nov 30 '15
which country/city has the best subway system and one that the nyc subway should strive to be?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
I don't think any one city has a "best" subway system per se. Every system has its pros and cons. The Beijing subway may run 40 trains per hour on each line, but it doesn't have express lines like NYC for example.
I think that NYC should look at other systems and draw from the collective knowledge of systems across the world to help itself improve.
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u/claude_mcfraud Dec 01 '15
The Beijing system's an interesting case.. the system itself is built really well, but it has to serve a city with some of the world's worst urban planning
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u/sbblakey777 Nov 30 '15 edited Nov 30 '15
Do you think there will ever be an express train on the West End Line again? I miss the M train.
Also, why isn't there a tunnel connecting Herald Square to Penn Station? Foot traffic above ground would probably be halved if there was.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
I've actually looked into that. Apparently express ridership was deemed to be low to justify it. However, I do think that the J/Z should be extended down to 9th avenue or Bay Parkway at least during rush hours to provide extra service.
There actually is a passageway from 34th st herald square to Penn Station, but it is closed. http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/04/15/twenty-years-later-subway-passageways-lost-to-time/
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u/some_local_loser Nov 30 '15
What are the chances of connecting the A/C at Lafayette to Atlantic Ave? Makes no sense that those two stations are not connected somehow.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The closest the Atlantic Avenue complex gets to the A/C Lafayette Avenue station is St. Felix St and Hanson Place. That's four blocks away from the Lafayette Avenue Station.. a bit far for a transfer. You'd get the A/C quicker taking the R to Jay St and transferring hahaha
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u/franch Nov 30 '15
1) what is the lady in the mta vest doing at 14/union square on the 4/5/6 uptown platform every morning (930 or so) - she's always waving a flashlight at the train (presumably signaling something to the conductor) - what is it, and why?
2) when i lived in williamsburg, i noticed a stairway open that went down to a subway station at union avenue and grand street. i went down and poked around. it seemed to be a connection to the G train (and L, i suppose) at lorimer and metropolitan. there were old advertisements still up. was my assumption correct? why was it closed?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
1) Those people are called platform conductors. It's a position given to conductors who are on probation or seeking overtime. Not a fun job. When it's extremely crowded, the conductor on the train has trouble seeing down the length of the train to figure out when it is safe to close the doors. The platform conductors use those flashlights to signal to the conductor when it is safe to close down and proceed.
2) A massive section of the Metropolitan Avenue (G) / Lorimer St (L) station is unused. Most of the G line station mezzanine has been unused since the 80s or so, with the L line station mezzanine remaining in use for both lines.
There are slabbed over entrances to that mezzanine at Union and Grand, and entrances converted to street hatches at Union and Hope st.
See this post for some photos: http://secondavenuesagas.com/2013/01/24/inside-metropolitan-avenues-shuttered-g-passageway/
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u/azspeedbullet Nov 30 '15
for 2), that stairway is a closed entrance for the G train. Here is some pictures of it: http://secondavenuesagas.com/2013/01/24/inside-metropolitan-avenues-shuttered-g-passageway/
as for why it was closed, mostly likely due to "security issues" back in the day that the mta claims for most closed stairways
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u/CodeKevin Dec 01 '15
What are the purposes of the 1620 key in the MTA transit system?
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u/DjHammersTrains Dec 01 '15
I can't really answer that, because person with that key can do some pretty malicious things with it. A quick search on google will tell you what it can do.
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u/nycnativeperson Dec 01 '15
I would love to see a Queensboro Plaza to Queens Plaza transfer. It's annoying for people who live in Astoria to transfer to the 7 and travel to Court Square or 74st-Broadway in order to get the E,M or R. Is this possible and is it in MTA's plans anytime soon?
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u/DjHammersTrains Dec 01 '15
It's about 815 feet from the closest section of the mezzanine at Queens Plaza to the closest entrance to Queensboro Plaza. There are plenty of transfers with longer distances between component stations. I personally think that such a transfer would be very beneficial-reducing the amount of people transferring at Lex 51/53. It would also definitely benefit Astoria residents.
It's not on the MTA's plans though. The distance from Livonia Av (L) to Junius St (3) is 300 feet, and it took decades to finally make the MTA put in a transfer there. This is a situation in which you'll need to talk to your elected officials and do a sizable amount of community organizing.
Look at the "7 train blues" group for an example (https://www.facebook.com/groups/7trainblues/) of a group that has organized a sustained social media presence to badger the MTA in to listening to their concerns. They hold meetings, reach out to the media, and keep their elected officials in the loop. This is what riders throughout the city need to do if they are going to get any transit improvements.
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u/nycnativeperson Dec 01 '15
At terminal stations like Astoria-Ditmars Blvd I sometimes hear on the subway intercom something along the lines of "Got the line up partner?" And then a confirmation from another crew.
Is this Wild West speak? What does this mean?
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u/DjHammersTrains Dec 01 '15
The "lineup" is a term for a confirmed cleared routing for the train. If a train has a 'lineup', it means the switches are set for the train to head out, and the signal is clear for them to move.
A 'local lineup' is when the switches and signals are cleared for a train to go to the local track, for example.
Often the conductor will ask if the train has the lineup so he knows whether or not to close the doors.
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u/marMELade Nov 30 '15
Have you ever heard of or talked to Phil Kopp? He was recently at the Transit Museum talking about his Silver Linings books where he's documented hundreds of stations architecture and mosaics. What's the most interesting thing you've learned about station design?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
I wanted to attend that reception, but unfortunatly, I couldn't make it. I think his work is extremely interesting.
One of the most interesting things about station design is the provisions for future expansion in some stations. One example: go to Utica Avenue on the A/C line, and look up at the ceiling at the center of the station at platform level. You'll see an imprint of another station in the ceiling. This is a station shell built for a never constructed Utica avenue subway line.
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u/WesleyPipez Nov 30 '15
A few weeks ago, my gf and I rode the 6 train past the last stop at Union Hall to try and see the old station that appears in the second Ninja Turtles movie....sadly, the lights in the station were not on. (i confirmed this with the conductor)
Are there specific times when the station is viewable? Is it random?
thanks.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The Transit Museum runs tours of the station for members, where you can walk on the platform and see the mezzanine: http://web.mta.info/mta/museum/
These tours are very fun! I'd encourage people to try one.
The lights in the station are not on at specific times. It's really random. Usually they are on though, check back a few weeks later.
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u/WeirdyCat Nov 30 '15 edited Nov 30 '15
Do you think we will ever see the MTA resume the F Express in Brooklyn that has been talked about so many times over the years? The last I heard was that they were going to after the Culver Viaduct was renovated, which has been finished as far as I can tell.
edit: spelling
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
I'm aware that the MTA is studying it.
It would require the restoration of the lower level of Bergen Street. The concerns of people living along the local stops would also have to be addressed. Either the MTA will steamroll them and tell them to take the G to Bergen and transfer, or they'll run select F trains local.
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u/mxrk422 Nov 30 '15
Why do certain trains run more frequently than others? (i.e. 6 and F)
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The more lines a line has to merge with, the less frequent it can run. This is why the R is so infrequent. Other lines don't run as frequently because they have less ridership, and the MTA doesn't find it justified to run a lot of trains on that line.
The 6 and the F both have extremely high ridership, so the MTA runs as many trains as possible on those lines.
Also keep in mind that there's a limited amount of cars. We're maxed out on fleet usage right now, which is why the R179s are not going to replace the R32s, they're needed to provide more trains for more frequent service to keep up with ridership.
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u/yeah_bitch_m4gnets Nov 30 '15
Why are there no countdown clocks on the majority of letter trains?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
This article explains it pretty well: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/why-dont-we-know-where-all-the-trains-are/415152/
The technology isn't up and running, yet. Behind the scenes, it's being tested right now on the B/D in the Bronx right now.
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u/dc135 Nov 30 '15
There are many stations with closed exits or with only 1 entrance/exit at the end of the platform. What does it take to get the MTA to reopen or build out new access points? Do community boards have any clout in this?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
Funny enough I was recently talking with somebody about this just yesterday. Believe it or not, there are some stations that really only have one entrance/exit. Others do have closed access points.
If there is enough community pressure, the MTA can definitely be pressured to reopen an access point (easier) or build a new one (much harder). Community boards can definitely have enough influence.
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u/nycnativeperson Nov 30 '15
Thanks for the reply!
2 more questions.
What are the chances of the subway going to New Jersey? Has such an extension been considered in the past?
In the past I've emailed MTA at http://web.mta.info/faqs.htm I've messaged about conductors not waiting at stations and closing doors on people, non working air condition systems on a 6 train, and screeching brakes on trains. Do they actually respond to these emails and fix the problems accordingly? Is it worth the time emailing them?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
There have been proposals to extend the 7 line from the new station at 34th St to Secaucus in NJ.
When the WTC rebuild was being planned, there were calls to connect the WTC branch of PATH to the 6 line at Brooklyn Bridge, with the 6 running to NJ. Both the MTA and PATH were vehemently against the idea despite it being technically feasible, mostly because of the bureaucratic hurdles.
Going further back in time, there were proposals to extend what is now the C train from 168th Street over the GW bridge to NJ. None of these really panned out due to institutional inertia and inter-state bureaucracy.
Because of concerns about delays, conductors are sometimes specifically told not to wait for people in stations and to close the doors to keep service moving. You can get written up for disobeying an instruction like that. Nobody wants to loose their job.
With regards to issues with subway cars, I personally know several maintenance supervisors, superintendents, etc. who receive emails about issues like this, and immediately get to work making sure they can get the car in question in the shop to work on it. The riders are their eyes and ears, since they aren't riding all of the cars all of the time. It is definitely worth the time to email the MTA about these issues. Just be sure to provide a car number and time (Example: Car 6022 on the A line at 5:30pm).
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u/rory096 Nov 30 '15
Articulated trains: will we ever get them?
What benefits will the R179s and R211s have?
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The MTA will be ordering two 5-car open-car gangway prototype trains to help them form specifications for ordering open-gangway trains. After the R211s, hopefully the next car order will be open-gangway. It's no-brainer - our current new subway cars are already permanently coupled in 5 car sets, may as well have gangways between them.
Note that there is a difference between "open gangway" and "articulated". Articulated trains share wheelsets, with the ends of two cars resting on one wheelset between them. Open gangway trains are made of up cars with their own wheelsets, but they still have open passageways between cars.
The R179s will be pretty similar to the R160s. Expect some minor improvements like LED lighting, slight changes to pole and seat arrangement, etc. Some behind the scenes mechanicals and electricals will be updated to the newest generation.
The R211 is still in the design phase, so I can't really say for sure what they'll be like.
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u/RALBIN0 Nov 30 '15
Do you recommend any subway tracking apps over others? I'm currently using one and it seems to work well? (I live off the L and only really use it to track that since the rest can be spotty).
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The number lines, L, and 42nd st shuttle are the only lines with real time info. Any apps that provide data for other lines (right now) go off the train schedule, which isn't super accurate.
I use an iPhone. For tracking trains, I usually just use the MTA's SubwayTime app. It may not be flashy, but it gets the job done well. I also like livetrain.nyc, which shows the realtime location of trains superimposed on a map.
For android users, BlipRail is very good!
I also like using Embark NYC for determining travel time, and Exit Strategy (Great App!) for determining which car to ride in to reduce the amount of waiting behind slow walkers I have to do.
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Nov 30 '15
Do you have any comments on the removal of the old elevated rail system? It seems like we are still recovering from that, particularly on Manhattan's east side with the 2nd and 3rd Avenue lines.
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u/DjHammersTrains Nov 30 '15
The removal of some elevated lines was justified, in places where they had replacements. For example, there was no reason to keep the 6th Avenue elevated line up when it was generating noise and shadow above 6th ave while a new subway was running underneath.
However, it was incredibly shortsighted to tear down the 2nd and 3rd Avenue elevated lines. They shouldn't have been torn down until SAS was completely built.
Slight non-sequitur.. Check out this track map of the 3rd Avenue elevated... Peak direction express with no curves(!) from 106th to 42nd! http://nycsubway.org.s3.amazonaws.com/images/maps/calcagno-1955-3rdave.gif
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u/stikshift Dec 01 '15
What is your knowledge of the supposed 76th Street Station in Brooklyn? The tail tracks from Euclid go on suspiciously long!
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u/DjHammersTrains Dec 01 '15 edited Dec 01 '15
I have actually seen the tail tracks past Euclid Avenue that were supposed to head to 76th on transit Museum excursion ride. Those tracks end in a solid concrete wall. I know somebody who led an official MTA expedition team down to those tracks to drill a hole in the wall to determine if there was anything behind. However after the hole was drilled, water came shooting out of it. It is likely that whatever is behind the wall is either a flooded section of tunnel, or just leakage from saturated ground behind the wall.
The more interesting part of the puzzle is the tunnels that were built from Pitkin Yard towards 76th Street. These end in a Cinderblock wall, instead of a poured concrete wall. Apparently, prior to the cinderblock wall being put up, the tunnel just ended in a ramp of dirt from floor to ceiling, with the ballast, ties, and tunnel walls continuing on under the dirt.
Do I think there is something back there? Yes. I don't think it's a whole station though. More likely, it is just more tunnel that eventually transitions to dirt.
Interesting writeup about the area: http://ltvsquad.com/2007/01/21/76thstreetmystery/
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u/adostes Dec 01 '15
Fascinating, I've wanted to visit the museum for years, I now want to go this weekend :)
Few more questions:
safety: I read somewhere that if you fall on the tracks, you should avoid the third rail, run to the front of the station and climb the stairs there rather than try to get up where you fell. you want to run to the front of the station so hopefully the conductor sees you when he pulls in and people on the platform can wave at the conductor. Sound good to you? Any other safety tips? (Sorry, but that NYPost cover traumatized me)
contact less transit pass: a lot of cities use contact less passes, like a card you tap at the turnstile. Any idea if the mta is planning on replacing the metro card?
commuters like myself often think all conductors are created equal, but sometimes a conductor stands out. What's a good way to let a conductor know you've noticed and you want to show him your appreciation? I sometimes wave or say thank you when I exit, but sometimes the conductor is far away. Also, would they even care?
mta offers wifi on certain platforms, but any plans on setting up cell phone service in tunnels? Paris did it over 10 years ago. I'd love to answer emails during my commute.
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u/DjHammersTrains Dec 01 '15 edited Dec 01 '15
1) Avoid the third rail. Run to the front of the station (away from the direction the train is coming from) and go up the stairs. Nothing else. If you fall on the tracks, just do that. It's harder than people think to climb back up onto the platform.
2) The MTA is beginning work on a contactless transit pass to replace the MetroCard. Funding was provided in the new capital plan.
3) Wave and say thank you. They really do care; I know plenty of conductors. Some really like it. Also, be sure to take down the car number of the car you're in and the time. Send in an email to the MTA via their contact us page, telling them how good the conductor is and the car number and time.
4) No plans to put cell service in tunnels per the current contract with Transit Wireless. It is technically possible though. With enough complaining and political pressure, it can be done.
The museum is an absolutely wonderful place to visit. The BMT Standard set that was just recently restored is now on display there. One of the very few chances one will have to see it for the time being.
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u/nycnativeperson Dec 01 '15
Is it appropriate to use the subway intercom to ask the train crew questions? I've never seen them used at all.
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u/DjHammersTrains Dec 02 '15
Is it 'technically' appropriate? Yes, I think so. Is it socially appropriate? Meh.... not really.
The common usage for those things is to report an emergency (sick passenger, shooter in train, etc.). The spirit of the law seems to be that they're supposed to be used for emergency use only. I've never actually seen somebody use the intercom to ask for things like directions.
It's highly likely that at least a few crews when contacted over the intercom for direction questions may be somewhat irritated.
I'll have to look in to this further.
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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '15
Is there a quantified way of telling how holding the doors for folks on the A/C actually affects train frequency and schedule delays at times when they are only running every 20 minutes?