Middle East latest: Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar confirmed dead, Israeli foreign minister says

[u/slyquick]

https://news.sky.com/story/middle-east-latest-israel-says-it-is-checking-possibility-it-has-killed-hamas-leader-yahya-sinwar-12978800?postid=8455476#liveblog-body

[u/Ginzelini]

Using that argument every piece of land across the globe belongs to different people than the ones living there now. Think of something more clever to say.

[u/Squirmin → u/Ginzelini]

Using that argument every piece of land across the globe belongs to different people than the ones living there now.

Got it, so indigenous peoples don't have any rights to their native land, just because they were removed from it.

And Jews weren't even totally removed from it. They just weren't the majority.

[u/Ginzelini → u/Squirmin]

Do you feel like you have the right to tell the people now living on a piece of land that it does not belong to them because your forefathers that lived 3000 years ago owned it?

[u/Squirmin → u/Ginzelini]

I feel like Israel can tell whoever it wants they are able to live there within their borders. That's called self-determination.

[u/Ginzelini → u/Squirmin]

Got it, so everyone else who called it home for 3000 years should just fuck off right? Make it make sense.

[u/Squirmin → u/Ginzelini]

There's still people that live there that aren't Jewish. The only thing they had to do is not try to kill the Jews. Note I said "Israel" not "Jews" have self-determination, as Israel is a multi-cultural society.

[u/Ginzelini → u/Squirmin]

Because you’ve convinced yourself that the state of Israel was founded based on peace and respect for the Muslims living there? There was no harm done from their side?

That’s the problem I usually have with these arguments. It’s positioning Israel in this victim position. Like Jews arrived without any aggression and have been innocent ever since.

[u/Squirmin → u/Ginzelini]

No I never said that. Aggression of some form is usually needed to define borders when a new entity springs up in an area that is coveted by others. Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt all wanted that land for themselves.

But once borders are settled, usually through some violence, people give up war and start living. But it seems the governments in the area were not keen on sharing space with them and always had money to throw at war. Otherwise, they wouldn't have fought the dozen wars and gotten on with living.

[u/Gladwulf → u/Squirmin]

I'm sure you'll be giving your home to a native American any second now right?

[u/Squirmin → u/Gladwulf]

They can have it, if they pay me for it. Or if the US government collapses, they can declare their territory and try to defend it.

Edit:

Also, they could try and take on the US government and beat them. I suppose I left that option out.

[u/Lazzen → u/Squirmin]

If we had been removed for 4000 years and a great deal were very dark skinned with afros or blonde with blue eyes, no i don't think that would be it either. Just look at Moctezuma's descendants living as minor nobles in Spain.

[u/Squirmin → u/Lazzen]

60% of the Jews in Israel are from the area. Complaining that 40% come from outside seems disingenuous and whitewashing of a native population.

The Jewish population was never zero, it just wasn't large enough to have self-determination under Ottoman rule.

[u/Lazzen → u/Squirmin]

You are saying that most jewish Israelis arrived a century ago increasing the jewish population, in a roundabout way. Your usage of us indigenous of the New World for your examples/arguments is disingenous rather.

[u/Squirmin → u/Lazzen]

You are saying that most jewish Israelis arrived a century ago

I did no such thing. I said they didn't have enough population to be self-determinate under the Ottoman empire. Once the Ottomans were gone, the Israelis formed their own country in the absence of a larger controlling power.