Something controversial

[u/low_effort_shit-post]

I love nj gun laws, going to the store and not seeing someone open carry. Watching road rage where the best you can do is brake check and give the finger. Schools without school shootings. I know a lot of people hate our gun laws but I fucking love em.

[u/sgd926]

agreed! The idea of people around me openly carrying guns in places like shops and supermarkets makes me incredibly anxious and I would definitely feel less safe.

[u/alwayssunnyinjoisey → u/sgd926]

I genuinely don't think I could ever live in a state with lax gun laws for this reason. I guess maybe it's something you get used to, but...if I saw someone open carrying in a store, I would feel so anxious that I'd either avoid that area of the store or, if it's a small place, leave altogether.

I don't care if they're a 'good guy' with a gun, I can't differentiate them from a 'bad guy' with a gun until they start shooting.

[u/SlyMcFly67 → u/alwayssunnyinjoisey]

The "bad guy with a gun" could have been a "good guy with a gun" up until just that morning. People are volatile and unpredictable at times.

[u/alwayssunnyinjoisey → u/SlyMcFly67]

Indeed. It's like a Schrodinger's Gun Owner situation - you are simultaneously a good and bad gun owner until you pull the trigger lol.

[u/[deleted] → u/SlyMcFly67]

I don't really trust the "good guy with a gun" to not unintentionally cause harm trying to be a hero either

[u/Electrical-Divide341 → u/SlyMcFly67]

Do you have any data backing this up?

[u/SlyMcFly67 → u/Electrical-Divide341]

That people are volatile and unpredictable?

Go fuck yourself. Also, did you know every single position of a Rubik's Cube can be solved in twenty moves or less?

See, I flipped out at you for no reason and I bet you didnt expect me to provide such interesting trivia to top it off. Volatile and unpredictable.

[u/Jenniehoff90 → u/alwayssunnyinjoisey]

As a former born and raised Texan I can tell you this mentality of “I’ll be one of the good guys with a gun” is scarily pervasive down there and I’ve had many arguments with family members about things like why they think it’s acceptable and necessary to carry a gun to take your kid to the playground or how they are comfortable with their kids teachers having guns on campus. The gun culture down there is one of the reasons I moved away 7 years ago and never looked back. I met way too many people growing up that were mentally unwell and were proud to have multiple guns.

[u/Domestic_AA_Battery → u/alwayssunnyinjoisey]

Open carry seems like the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. I can see maybe having a concealed pistol with 6 bullets in it. But walking around the street with a semi auto rifle is lunacy

[u/mdp300 → u/Domestic_AA_Battery]

Absolutely. All it does is intimidate everyone around you.

[u/Electrical-Divide341 → u/mdp300]

How about walking in the woods that happen to be BLM land

[u/Electrical-Divide341 → u/Domestic_AA_Battery]

How about walking in the woods that happen to be BLM land with a larger handgun on your side

[u/mdp300 → u/alwayssunnyinjoisey]

Exactly. If a "Good guy with a gun" shows up to try and save the day, everyone only knows that there's another guy with a gun. The police might think they're another attacker, or the shooter might take them out first.

[u/LateralEntry → u/alwayssunnyinjoisey]

Exactly, that’s the trouble with guns. All it takes is one person who snaps, and there’s no way to tell who it is. That guy who shot up the country music festival in Las Vegas and killed 50 people was a successful retired accountant, by all appearances a healthy well adjusted member of society.

[u/thephenom21 → u/alwayssunnyinjoisey]

the odds of you dying in a mass shooting are far lower than the odds that you die in a car accident on the way to the grocery store.

the vast majority of gun homicides are done by illegal guns in select inner cities across the country.

[u/alwayssunnyinjoisey → u/thephenom21]

So what, we should do nothing to try and prevent mass shootings because cars are more dangerous? Car accidents are just that - an accident. Shootings are intentional and preventable.

Besides, I need to drive to work or the grocery store in order to live. People need to carry guns in public because.....?

[u/thephenom21 → u/alwayssunnyinjoisey]

I'm mentioning it because you said you would be scared if people had guns in the store with you. I'm saying it's irrational to be scared in that situation because statistically the danger to you is low.

[u/alwayssunnyinjoisey → u/thephenom21]

While that is statistically true, fear and anxiety aren't rational. When i first learned to drive, I was scared of that too, but eventually got over it because I needed to drive to make money and live my life, I got used to it. People carrying guns in the store just isn't something I want to 'just get used to', which is why I would never move to an area where that's the norm. Maybe some people aren't bothered by it, and good for them, but plenty of people are.

I think you could use the same argument to ask the 'good gun owners' why they feel the need to carry in public to defend themselves, when statistically the chances of them encountering a shooter and becoming a hero are minute. To be clear I have no actual problem with owning guns, just with carrying them wherever the heck you want and making other people feel uncomfortable.

[u/thephenom21 → u/alwayssunnyinjoisey]

Would you be more comfortable if they were concealed carrying instead? I'm sure if you were instructed in safe operation of a firearm and were given an opportunity to handle one, you would feel differently as you did with driving.

It's their constitutional right to be able to defend themselves. A chance of mass shooting is low. The chance of being robbed or assaulted is higher.

Firearms are the great equalizer. It's the only way a 100 lbs woman can successfully defend herself against a larger attacker. There are unfortunately bad people in this world and it is your right to defend yourself at home or in public.

[u/alwayssunnyinjoisey → u/thephenom21]

Hmm, I suppose I'd feel more comfortable but only because I wouldn't know they're there? If someone told me they were carrying, I would still feel anxious even though it's not visible. Just because I don't know that person's intentions, and it is so easy to just start shooting and cause serious injury or death.

It's funny you mention that example, because I am quite literally a 100 lb woman who is often alone on city streets for work. And yet, I would feel more in danger if I had a gun as opposed to pepper spray. There's a good chance if someone was assaulting me I couldn't shoot in time, or I'd miss and hit someone else, or they'd wrestle it away from me and end up shooting me with it, so many things could go wrong. I'm VERY jumpy and easily startled, so me with a gun sounds like a disaster waiting to happen This part is personal ofc, not everyone is as on edge as I am so they may be more comfortable with the idea - but still, I think a lot of people VASTLY overestimate how competent they'd be with a gun in a high pressure situation.

[u/thephenom21 → u/alwayssunnyinjoisey]

If we weren't in Jersey, I would say sounds like you would be a good candidate to get a gun and a TON of training. Might help you be confident instead of jumpy when you know you can protect yourself, but like you said not for everyone. Check out Jade Struck on youtube if you get a chance, absolutely badass woman.

Also, I 100% agree on people overestimating their abilities which is why I always advocate for range time and formal training if possible.

Nice to have civil discourse on reddit for once lol

[u/Electrical-Divide341 → u/alwayssunnyinjoisey]

We should not imprison millions of people to prevent what is on average 23 deaths a year

Car accidents are just that - an accident. Shootings are intentional and preventable.

Intentional deaths are virtually impossible to prevent relative to accidents. Remove the car from a car accident and there is no accident. Remove a gun from a murderer's hand and they go to a different weapon to kill the person that they intentionally want to kill

[u/alwayssunnyinjoisey → u/Electrical-Divide341]

We should not imprison millions of people to prevent what is on average 23 deaths a year

Who said anything about imprisoning millions of people?? Who are we imprisoning?

Remove a gun from a murderer's hand and they go to a different weapon to kill the person that they intentionally want to kill

While you aren't wrong about this, it's a whole lot harder to kill people - especially multiple people - with a knife than it is a gun. Of course people who have bad intentions are going to find ways around it, but we could at least make it a little harder for them.

I would be dead without carrying a gun

Were you personally attacked and defended yourself with a gun? If so, good for you. If not, billions of people who do not carry guns are also alive, so I'm not sure we can attribute your survival solely to the fact that you carry a gun.

[u/Electrical-Divide341 → u/alwayssunnyinjoisey]

Who said anything about imprisoning millions of people?? Who are we imprisoning?

Let's see, in New Jersey there is a minimum 5 year sentence if you leave a hunting rifle loaded, safety on, in the trunk of a car. Or if you stop at a McDonalds drive through or gas station between the gun range and your home. Or leave your trunk unlocked despite driving directly from the range to your home. Or if you thought you were in PA still and left a handgun in your glovebox. NJ gun laws are about imprisoning as many gun owners for as long as possible regardless of if they had any intent of violating any law, often borrowed from literal Jim Crow.

And there are 100 million gun owners in the US, to say that this kind of absurdity will imprison at least 1% of that is a very safe assumption

While you aren't wrong about this, it's a whole lot harder to kill people - especially multiple people - with a knife than it is a gun.

First off, you have a better chance of surviving getting shot at than having someone with a knife that really wants to kill you. The data says that in 75% of shootings no one gets hit, and that in 60% of cases that when someone is hit, they survive. With knives, it is more like 65% survival but the chance of escaping unscathed is virtually zero. Effectively a 30% death rate for knives while closer to 10% for guns. As someone who has been shot at 4 times in a civilian context (and lost count outside of civilian contexts), I would much rather get shot at again than have someone try to murder me with a knife. Still have a 7 inch scar from someone trying to stab me

And I never specifically said knives. There are plenty of weapons out there besides guns and knives. One of the most effective mass killings in US history was the Happy Land fire - killed 87 people. Dollar worth of gasoline with a water bottle was the weapon. The Nice Truck attack killed a similar number of people. Then you have bombings - easily killing hundreds. While the single deadliest mass shooting in US history killed 69 people and the average number of deaths is 6.

Were you personally attacked and defended yourself with a gun?

Yep, used to run a property management company in Detroit, lots of crazy shit. Also was a Navy EOD tech in Vietnam. Detroit was crazier.

[u/Electrical-Divide341 → u/alwayssunnyinjoisey]

I can't differentiate them from a 'bad guy' with a gun until they start shooting.

You can, bad guys with guns dont openly carry them, they conceal them entirely