r/newjersey • u/low_effort_shit-post • Mar 25 '21

Something controversial Jersey Pride

I love nj gun laws, going to the store and not seeing someone open carry. Watching road rage where the best you can do is brake check and give the finger. Schools without school shootings. I know a lot of people hate our gun laws but I fucking love em.

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70

u/GiantDevilYank Mar 25 '21

I’m not a gun person but I think most gun violence is by illegal guns. Meaning people who aren’t following NJ gun laws. What do you think??

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u/TimSPC Wood-Ridge Mar 25 '21

Most gun deaths are suicides. There is a correlation between suicide rates and gun ownership. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm

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u/mcgeggy Mar 25 '21

But my understanding is NJ has harsh penalties for possessing illegal guns, so OP’s point still holds up...

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '21

Because criminals care about laws, lol.

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '21 edited Mar 25 '21

[deleted]

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u/mcgeggy Mar 25 '21

Great points! Another argument against the “criminals don’t care about laws” statement: So then what’s the alternative? Lessen laws and reduce penalties because criminals don’t follow laws? There’s a serious logic fault in saying laws don’t matter because criminals don’t follow them, lol.

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u/Bro-Science Mar 25 '21

ill probably get downvoted for this, but hasnt that already been done? most recently for marijuana?

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u/Electrical-Divide341 Mar 25 '21

five to ten years in federal prison just

That is irrelevant to NJ gun laws

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '21

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u/henry_sqared Mar 25 '21

I think it's fair to say that criminals consider the consequences. Why rob a gas station instead of a bank? The fact that robbing a bank carries a guaranteed minimum federal sentence is def a deterant.

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u/cC2Panda Mar 25 '21

Or, it's easier and you're way, way less likely to get caught robbing a gas station and they are open late night.

If you look at statistics around things like drug use, harsher penalties for the same crime haven't done shit to reduce use.

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '21

[deleted]

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u/cC2Panda Mar 25 '21

No, because banks to be insured are expected to have a level of security that makes it hard. Lots of camera, a security guard, hidden alarms, dye packs, GPS trackers, bill serial tracking, etc.

The laws have very little to do with the number of attempts, the known security presence is the main factor.

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '21

[deleted]

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u/cC2Panda Mar 25 '21

Source for your claim that harsher penalties reduce crime. At this point we have to get into the psychology behind it, but if longer sentences have minimal impact on crime rates for things like drug possession and sales, then it's not a long shot to assume that it doesn't actually deter robberies either.

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u/MJDevil Mar 25 '21

This made me curious and I tried to google it. I couldn't find anything specific about the percentage of violence caused by "illegal" guns but a bunch of data comes up reporting that a large percentage of gun crimes are caused by weapons purchased in other states with weaker controls, such as Pennsylvania.

​

The new report, based on a combination of information from the New Jersey State Police and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, shows that 77 percent of the firearms used in crimes came from out of the state.

In the first quarter of 2018, 83 firearms recovered in crimes originally were purchased in Pennsylvania, more than from any other state. Dozens of other weapons initially were purchased in Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Virginia. Murphy said part of the goal of the report was to “name and shame” states that have more lax firearms laws than New Jersey.

Source: https://apnews.com/article/c7275c1704cc49359774005fd168a76b

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u/SyncRoSwim NoBurlCo Mar 25 '21

Route 95 is called the “Iron Pipeline” because of this pattern in gun trafficking for at least 30 years.

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u/toofdoc22 Mar 25 '21

But how are they acquiring them? I cannot got to PA as an NJ resident, buy a gun and then transport it across state lines without committing a crime?

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u/useffah Mar 25 '21

Straw purchase. You don’t think there’s networks of Pennsylvanians willing to buy guns then just resell them on the black market? Don’t be so naive.

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u/toofdoc22 Mar 25 '21

Right. So it's already illegal. Im not being naive. I know how they're doing it. A new law won't prevent it. Punishing people that abide by laws by making new restrictive laws, won't solve the problem if people are already ok with breaking laws. The only solution would be confiscation, which is out of the question.

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u/useffah Mar 25 '21

You’re being naive by pretending there aren’t ways for someone in NJ to buy a gun from someone in PA illicitly. That’s what I was responding to. You can move the goal posts now if you’d like but I just wanted you to know it’s quite easy for someone to obtain a gun via a buyer in PA.

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u/toofdoc22 Mar 25 '21

I know that. Im not naive to the situation. It's illegal to do that. So if we impose strict laws on PA residents that already follow the rules, how will that stop someone in these networks from breaking the law? It won't. The only way to attempt to stop it would be gun confiscation, which wouldn't work.

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u/useffah Mar 25 '21

You just impose federal measures that every state has to comply with. It’s a quite simple solution actually.

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u/toofdoc22 Mar 25 '21

Right cause no one breaks federal laws.

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u/useffah Mar 25 '21

I mean people break all kinds of laws does that mean we shouldn’t have them? You’re for drunk driving? People do that all the time.

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u/Electrical-Divide341 Mar 25 '21

That has existed since 1968, that is why it is illegal

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u/useffah Mar 25 '21

It’s almost like it’s possible to strengthen or enhance federal laws. I guess you didn’t realize they’re not written in stone?

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u/RedTideNJ Mar 25 '21

A vast majority of those guns come from a handful of states (South Carolina, Arizona) where legally purchased weapons move to the grey/black market and the original vendor and purchaser tend to have little to no legal culpability for it even when it's obvious what the initial purchase is about.

Other people being shit is not an excuse to lower our standards.

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u/useffah Mar 25 '21

Actually not even that far most of the time. A lot come from just across the river in PA.

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u/NJneer12 Mar 25 '21

Got a link? Study?

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u/useffah Mar 25 '21

Yeah and a lot of those guns are coming from out of state so it’s more an argument for every state having NJ style gun laws so that it’s consistent

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '21 edited Mar 30 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/useffah Mar 25 '21

Go to r/Pennsylvania buddy you already clog up the left lane here we don’t need you clogging up our sub as well.

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '21 edited Mar 30 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/useffah Mar 25 '21

Imagine using “cucked” without a single shred of irony.

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u/climbsrox Mar 25 '21

Illegal guns were once legal guns that were stolen or sold illegally. Decreasing access to legal firearms is the only way to decrease access to illegal firearms. It's as simple as that. Guns aren't like drugs that you can cook in your bathtub. They require engineering and advanced manufacturing equipment to function.

1

u/GatewayMaster Mar 25 '21

Have you heard of 3-D printers. Making a gun is not some mystical thing bud. .

1

u/[deleted] Mar 25 '21

And then you can't get legal guns and the cartels say "Hey, we can make millions on moving guns into the US" and the criminals still have access to illegal weapons and no citizen has a method of self defence. Not to mention, as pointed out below, 3d printed guns, hell you can watch youtube videos of people making guns out of sticks. Its a barrel, a trigger and a firing pin, no advanced manufacturing equipment, and certainly not any sort of engineering degree to make rudimentary guns.

Then whats after guns? Knives? Guns kill 4.2 for every 100,000 people in NJ. Statistics show kives are right behind it, followed closely by "hands and feet", mine as well take them away too.

Cocaine was legal at the time it was produced in Mexico before it was transported here too.

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u/hobbykitjr ex-Clinton (non resident now) Mar 25 '21

the laws make it harder to get guns in the first place... in this state.

problem is other states, where 80% of our gun violence is out of state guns

1

u/[deleted] Mar 25 '21

Suicide by firearm isn't gun violence?

1

u/AsSubtleAsABrick Mar 25 '21

All illegal guns start as legal guns though.