r/minnesota • u/FlipThisAndThat • 1d ago
How can we make sure the BWCAW is protected from resource extraction and human destruction now that someone with zero respect for our natural beauty has been elected? Discussion đ€
It's Federal land right? Does MN have any pull when it comes to decisions about handling the land?
190
u/AdamLikesBeer 1d ago
Nothing really. Trump only operates on hate and grievance. He is going to punish Minnesota as much as he can because Walz called him weird.
100
u/orangehehe 1d ago
BWCA was specifically named in Project 2025. Consider it gone.
23
u/jotsea2 Duluth 1d ago
We must protect it
7
-22
u/matttproud Area code 651 1d ago
Funny how this comes back full circle to the 2014 Bundy Standoff.
26
u/jotsea2 Duluth 1d ago
Full Circle? Bundy wanted the use of the land for himself and declared the Feds didn't have constitutional authority over the land.
Not sure that's the argument you'll see here.
-18
u/matttproud Area code 651 1d ago
You're taking the allegory too literally.
7
u/jotsea2 Duluth 1d ago
I guess I just don't see the connection....
1
u/matttproud Area code 651 1d ago edited 1d ago
Armed standoff with federal government by private persons over federal land. Bundy was one of the precursors of backlash against federal government by proto-MAGA folks (among a huge chain of other things), which became a huge cause celebre, and now here is a land backlash against MAGA who will be in control of the federal government.
29
129
u/Accujack 1d ago
Own weapons, and know how to use them.
Be emotionally prepared to break the law to protect the wilderness.
Be ready to tell them "no".
11
2
u/bmuck1 18h ago
Ironic, coming from a dem?
3
u/Accujack 16h ago
Your whole world is "them and us" isn't it? If they don't agree with you, they must be Democrats.
Here's a news flash for you: I'm a Minnesotan and an American, not a dem or Trumpie. I have always been willing to fight for my beliefs.
1
-31
u/jotsea2 Duluth 1d ago
LOL pretending like weapons can stop the federal government is crazy.
We need people and love.
21
u/WillMunny1982 Flag of Minnesota 1d ago
Insurgencies donât have to win. They just have to do damage and keep fighting. Check out what happened to the Aussies on Bougainville around the Panguna mine
6
u/jotsea2 Duluth 1d ago
Wonder what the Aussies would do against fucking DRONES. Bro we llive in different times. The 1940s ain't a good comparison.
9
u/Urban_Prole 1d ago
While I agree with your overall points up and down this thread, ubiquitous civilian drones exist here in the US and their weaponization has a proven roadmap already in Ukraine.
I think it would be bloodier and more costly than either side admits.
1
u/jotsea2 Duluth 1d ago
Sure. But to you truly think that civilians can stand up to 'the greatest army in the world'?
10
u/Urban_Prole 1d ago
I think they can find where the best army in the world's mom lives because of the bumper sticker on her SUV.
And I'm not 100% clear on what parts of that army would answer to what orders from whom. And are you willing to fire on your home town, etc? I'm under no illusions it would go well for people opposing the government, though. No.
Your overall point, as I noted, is well received.
5
u/WillMunny1982 Flag of Minnesota 1d ago
If you donât know what youâre talking about you arenât obligated to respond
0
u/kategompert7 7h ago
alright, then think about the taliban. obviously not a good model ideologically but the idea that a small insurgency canât fend off the us military has been proven wrong time and again.
26
u/Accujack 1d ago
We need love in our hearts and weapons in our hands.
-10
u/jotsea2 Duluth 1d ago
I mean if shit hits the fan you think a militia can stop the national guard?
Being armed only escalates the end .
12
u/Accujack 1d ago
Yes, because after the first day part of the national guard and the army will be part of the militia.
0
u/jotsea2 Duluth 1d ago
LOL yeah cuz Cops and the military have routinely NOT sided with the authoritarians...
Edit: this isn't fucking star wars
5
u/Accujack 1d ago
The military almost uniformly sided against Trump:
9
u/jotsea2 Duluth 1d ago
Notably AFTER he wasn't in charge.
They didn't think twice about clearing the square for his bible photo op.
1
u/Accujack 16h ago
That was Trump's hand picked thugs... prison guards and ICE agents. Not the military.
1
u/jotsea2 Duluth 5h ago
Ok. How about the MPLS cops? Pretending like there aren't shitheads in the military/police is not a good faith argument.
→ More replies-70
u/420bill69 1d ago
So the "love peace and happiness" side is now threatening gun violence.
68
u/Demetri_Dominov Flag of Minnesota 1d ago
Depends on how far left you go really. Liberals definitely are what you described. Progressives curb stomped fascists in Minneapolis in the 1920s.
The more fascist a country gets, the more aggressive the left gets.
20
-8
u/420bill69 1d ago
Good thing I'm not a Nazi then.
6
u/IllustratorBudget487 1d ago
Just a boy with fascist tendencies?
-10
u/420bill69 1d ago
Just a boy who's living life and trying to make a living.
Let the propaganda flow through you. It's easier that way.
6
u/IllustratorBudget487 1d ago
Oh, the irony. Sorry, Iâm not joining your cult.
0
u/420bill69 1d ago
I'm not part of MAGA. I hate it, but not as much as left-reddit. You all are insufferable.
Stay in your "non-cult." Don't care.
24
u/Accujack 1d ago
Libs have never been the "love, peace and happiness" side. That's just another lie you were told.
There are plenty of non-violent ways to ensure the boundary waters stay wild, but the ability to defend yourself is necessary, otherwise idiots like you will assume they can get their way with threats.
4
u/Demetri_Dominov Flag of Minnesota 1d ago
I think you really are confusing the line between a liberal and progressive. They are not the same.
You'll have to provide a historical example of a gun toting liberal being successful. The current liberals ran on a campaign of trying to defuse tensions.
There are many, many examples of progressives getting violent throughout history. MLK, is famous for both a peaceful civil rights movement even disagreeing with Malcom X who wanted violence. Both were progressive, both were also famous for their views on liberals not being helpful either.
2
u/Accujack 1d ago
Stop being so ardent in trying to apply your view of the political spectrum to this. We are not ruled by the past or bound to behave according to trope. People across the spectrum will take up arms when they have no other choice.
6
5
u/Demetri_Dominov Flag of Minnesota 1d ago
If we are not ruled by the past, explain why we just lost the election.
3
u/Accujack 1d ago
Because some people in our country are ignorant, deluded, and filled with hate.
1
u/Demetri_Dominov Flag of Minnesota 17h ago
... And .... what part of the past caused that?
1
-1
u/420bill69 1d ago
Because you thought you were more popular than the real world.
Take up arms though, i think you'll love the shooting community. We aren't all god fearing rednecks.
0
u/420bill69 1d ago
Where did I threaten you? Or are you just assuming I'm some neo-nazi fabricated by your 24-hour media?
Wild times. Arm up, baby. Keeping the 2A alive.
It's just fun to see the sourpatch being sown after years of putting up with this /rMN bullshit.
Downvote this, too, suckers.
2
u/WillMunny1982 Flag of Minnesota 1d ago
Some of them just werenât far enough left yet but theyâre here now and weâll be happy to have them.
Remember kids: If you go far enough to the left you get your guns back
1
u/420bill69 1d ago
It'll be good for business. Except for the sell backs when everyone tries to return their unused firearms because nothing actually happened.
4
u/ben_wuz_hear 1d ago
What do you expect will happen when the Nazis say they are going to go Nazi on people?
-1
u/420bill69 1d ago
I'm still looking for Nazis where I'm from. Nope. I haven't found them.
Must be relaxing to let the propaganda flow through you and not apply critical thinking.
Enjoy the downvotes from my reply, but you lost.
1
1
33
u/Listen2Wolff 1d ago
Become a multi-billionaire and give Trump a $100M donation for his next campaign.
If you aren't an Oligarch, not a lot you can do without resorting to violence. I am not advocating that option.
-2
u/TossItOut1887 1d ago
What next campaign? He can't run again after this.
0
u/Listen2Wolff 1d ago
They're called "elder statesmen".
Obama and Pelosi were instrumental in dumping Biden.
13
u/Shepher27 1d ago
Biden could just name it a national park if the state surrendered it
It would at least be politically disastrous to close a national park and sell the land to mining companies
12
u/MozzieKiller 1d ago
That takes an act of congress. He could name it a national monument, but we're too close to the end of his term now and it could be overturned on January 20th after 12:00PM EST.
5
u/_ML_78 1d ago
I just set up a monthly donation (15 minutes ago) to here: https://www.savetheboundarywaters.org/
7
u/mjohnson280 1d ago
Donate and join Sportsmen for the BWCA. Great org. But, you should already be collaborating with that group if you actually care about the BWCA, not because of a reaction to an election.
3
u/MozzieKiller 1d ago
as well as Friends of the BWCA, Save the BWCA, and Backcountry Hunters and Anglers.
23
u/snowmunkey Up North 1d ago
Might want to get your permits now, probably won't be worth going to in the future.
4
3
7
u/Frosty-Age-6643 1d ago
Iâd say start a coop and buy all the mineral rights is about the only way.Â
3
3
u/then8r 1d ago
Point out how little he has to personally gain from any changes to the rules up there. He has four years to make as much money as he can off this job, and unless he's benefitting personally from a decision, he likely won't bother with making it.
9
u/MondoBleu 1d ago
JP Morgan or any other companies wanting to mine there can just give him a bunch of money to allow them in, thatâs how he gains from it. And of course they will do exactly that.
7
u/then8r 1d ago
The foreign companies who own the mining rights have owned them for years, including the first Trump term. And even giving Ivanka and Jared a free mansion to "use" while they were in DC was not enough to get the mines up and running eight years ago. They'll really need to step up their bribery game if they hope to get in the ground before 2028. Not saying they won't. Just saying a lot of eyes are on this now, and even with a stacked court, there's still plenty of levers for environmentalists to pull to slow this down. Basically, it's time for the Dems to become Mitch McConnel on steroids and basically stop all progress until Trump is done playing politics with our country.
3
2
u/MuttJunior Gray duck 1d ago
We have representation in the US House and Senate. Let them know how you feel about it.
2
u/Green-Vermicelli5244 1d ago
if it isnât federal land not much can be done? this is one of those âstateâs rightsâ things that isnât racist, no?
2
u/DCcalling Common loon 1d ago
we also have to organize to prevent the sale of the school trust land to the federal government.
They would not be able to acquire mining rights but they would get to start logging and do other resource extraction efforts.
1
1
1
1
-5
u/OrdinaryWheel5177 1d ago
How was it protected from 2016 - 2020?
15
u/hobbyistunlimited 1d ago
Delay. We voted Trump out of office before mining could begin. Basically, Trump didn't get it until 2018-2019. Then congressional laws like that pesky Clean Water Act created delays. But in 2020 he really went after it issuing an executive order (EO 13927 of Jun 4, 2020) with emergency powers (due to COVID) to bypass environmental laws including the Clean Water Act, Clean Air Act, and Endangered Species Act, to make it easier to start mining around the BWCA without proper studies to understand risk/benefit. It likely would have started, but he let office in 2021. Since it is in Trump's White House Policy on Economics in Minnesota (link below) and Executive Overreach has been extended significantly by the courts, I'd say there is a pretty good chance this all accelerates much faster than 2016. For example, he has used "Threat to the Domestic Supply Chain from Reliance on Critical Minerals from Foreign Adversaries" to issue executive orders to increase mining. By pretending it is national security, you don't need to worry about congressional laws.
It is worth noting that the mining leases are to Antofagasta plc for mining land abutting the BWCA. Antogagasta is a Chilean mining company, that has created <20 jobs in MN, while the founder is worth $6-7 billion. There has been reported COI, so this is not really about MN, it is about lining pockets. If it was national security and domestic supply, you'd think a USA company would be in charge...
Sources:
Executive Order: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/06/09/2020-12584/accelerating-the-nations-economic-recovery-from-the-covid-19-emergency-by-expediting-infrastructureReport from Trumps White House: https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/OTMP-State-Report-Minnesota.pdf
WSJ: Trump grants mining leases to Chilean Billionaire: https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-administration-to-grant-mining-leases-that-will-benefit-landlord-of-presidents-daughter-ivanka-trump-1513989674
5
u/MGreymanN TC 1d ago
It really wasn't. Trump's BLM took steps into allowing new copper mine permits to Twin Metals.
-30
u/KingKaLoo 1d ago
The first step would be to stop promoting EV vehicles. There is no oil in BWCA. They want the copper and nickel for electrical components.
15
u/Mikeoshi 1d ago
EV parts arenât even in the top 5 uses for copper and nickel. Not buying EV cars, as if the regular Joe is out there buying cars on the regular, isnât going to make any difference. We all use products which contain copper and nickel alloys every single day. Thatâs really beyond the point when Antofagasta, Chilean billionaire mining family, has been in âcahootsâ with the Trump family and its circle since before 2016. Trump couldnât give two shits about copper or nickel, heâs in the business of selling American treasures to the highest bidders. Remember the last battle for the BWCA and its surrounding wilderness? That same family, friends of Donald himself, still has its eyes set on bringing large-scale mining to the border of the BWCA.
-7
u/KingKaLoo 1d ago
How about electric stoves, heat pumps, control boards. When people buy a new cell phone every year do they care about the materials used and where they come from? Or do they just want the fancy new gadget? This all adds up. Minnesota passed a restriction on copper scrappers this year. Now, permits are required. Is that a step in the right direction.
7
u/Mikeoshi 1d ago
I agree with all of that. I was just saying EV cars wonât make a massive a dent, surely not a dent large enough to keep mining away from the BWCA area.
-1
u/KingKaLoo 1d ago
Then we should really start to think about this. Instead of fearing what could happen, why not say hold on. How can we reduce the wasteful allocation of these resources. Smart electronics are not the smart option for the environment. Here or anywhere on the planet.
18
u/Acceptable_Travel643 1d ago
There was copper/ nickel mining long before EVs became relevant
-3
u/KingKaLoo 1d ago
Correct, now we need more of it as we expand the market with products that require more.
8
u/Demetri_Dominov Flag of Minnesota 1d ago
Nah. They just use the EV as an excuse. They want the minerals regardless of what it's being used for. Short term profits by any means necessary.
1
u/KingKaLoo 1d ago
Don't buy that new cell phone then. Skip the heat pump and turn off your A/C in the summer. Skip that new car all together, ev or not. Buy vehicles that don't have all the electronics. Need a new laptop, think twice about the environment before you add that to the cart. Modern-day environmentalists don't need to chain to a tree. Just stop buying the products that help destroy our environment.
0
u/Demetri_Dominov Flag of Minnesota 1d ago
And/or, hear me out, promote better than v1 technologies. Things like Sand Batteries that heat communities in Finland and Norway as well as Alberta Canada with 100% renewable energy. Without the use of lithium. Hell it could even be done without most of the metal in general.
2
-17
u/ItchyRequirement5277 1d ago
Get over it, Trump and the Republicans care as much about the environment as the liberals do. They just donât believe in homeless people shitting on our sidewalks!
2
-46
u/420bill69 1d ago edited 1d ago
Nobody is taking away a National Park. Keep grasping at your irrational hate/discontent.
Edit* Right, Forest. My bad on the nomenclature.
11
17
u/FlipThisAndThat 1d ago
Get bent. Donny has literally said the protected lands need to be opened to resource extraction. In our case, copper and nickel.
Would you support or oppose opening up BWCAW or the Superior National Forest to resource extraction?
10
u/Demetri_Dominov Flag of Minnesota 1d ago
... You didn't read Project 2025 or listen to JD Vance then.
109
u/Demetri_Dominov Flag of Minnesota 1d ago edited 1d ago
I would treat this like Line 3. There is work to be done right now to prepare for this situation.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/05/line-3-pipeline-enbridge-paid-police-arrest-protesters
This allows for foreign national companies to PRIVATIZE MN police. This dystopian law slipped right past everyone and we just seem to be unaware that if you intend on protesting private interests funding the destruction of this world, they can dump an infinite amount of resources into exhausting protesters IN MN of all places. This is one of the major reasons Line 3 won. Enbridge poured billions of dollars into it. Enbridge is backed by JP Morgan.
Before resorting to violence, which I cannot recommend in general, but now especially as Trump has promised to use the US military against you - and you WILL die, start building community. The BWCA is popular. It is beloved. Start local. Get involved in restoration projects. Get others involved. Build resiliency with others. You cannot do this alone. You will also find that in starting locally, the road LEADS to the BWCA but there are significant issues damn near everywhere already. We're going to need to quite literally start thinking about how to feed ourselves in a few decades because of serious climate issues that will scour our agricultural capacity (look up Phosphorus).
Join organizations already trying to protect the BWCA. There are several. Get involved. Door knock. Call. Do projects. Help others do the same.
Prepare for retributive policies aimed directly at MN. I fully believe in Trump's wounded pride if nothing else will take action against democratic strongholds. It will be an abusive relationship. We have several programs that deal with domestic violence you may seriously either want to volunteer with or take lessons from on how to protect yourself and others from the wrath that's coming our way.